is afk a reportable behavior?

[(PSN)SektorZR1]

found 2 nasty afkers in sortie today and should i report them?

die lizard leech bloody worm!

[Cray]

Just now, gluih said:

You were comparing going afk to messing up stealth runs with a tonkor. Killing stuff with a tonkor clearly is a way to play the game.

All of what you metioned should be solved by first trying to communicate with the player, using the ingame chat and if they don't respond/stop reporting them is totally justified. And you also don't need to worry about the support, because that's their job.

It may be their job, but that doesn't guarantee they won't ever be understaffed.

And I was showcasing extremes, some of which probably could be reported, although some are much harder to enforce. (Such as Limbo casting #4 on top of a rare mod)

The point is, if we justify punishing AFK players because they're clearly not contributing, then it's easy to justify punishing behavior that clearly shouldn't be punished. That doesn't matter on the support side of things, because they already know what they will and won't punish. Where it will matter, however, is the players. Promoting the idea that any "objectively bad" behavior is punishable opens the door for more toxic interactions ("Do it my way, or I'll report you").

I guess that's really the gist of my entire argument: It's not about what support will do, but how players will handle such options.

[HellEnforcer]

Just now, DeltaPhantom said:

Devs vs. Dedicated support team, tom-ay-toh, tom-ah-toh. If whoever is responsible for handling support tickets can't due to sheer numbers, what good is the system?

As for "no such thing as a wrong way", I direct you towards a Loki constantly using Switch Teleport on teammates, for no purpose other than to annoy them.

Or a player who deliberately uses life support capsules as soon as they arrive, when life support itself is over 90%, ensuring that come crunch time, there's no spare life support.

Or the person who runs a few feet behind their teammates, letting them do all the hard work in an exterminate, when they could easily provide just as much damage output, but don't feel like doing any work.

Or the person who finds a perch in survival missions because they're lazy and don't feel like pulling their weight, only moving occasionally to prevent AFK flagging, but is clearly not AFK?

 

These are all clearly wrong ways to play. But how many of them are actually reportable? Remind me again where the line is drawn. I feel like it's gotten lost in a sea of vengeful teammates.

That's griefing as far as I know. The other is leeching. Both should be bannable offenses. It is not a matter of policing, it is a matter of disrupting gameplay.

[Cray]

6 minutes ago, HellEnforcer said:

it is a matter of disrupting gameplay.

I'll grant you that, but a full-on ban?

We're not exactly dealing with a hacker here, but I digress.

I would much rather have changes to game mechanics that removed the ability to grief, rather than run in circles trying to smack people for doing stuff they think is hilarious. And let's face it, it's probably next to impossible to completely get rid of leeching, and I'm more concerned with the previously mentioned griefing than a 'leech'.

Edited June 6, 2016 by DeltaPhantom

[taiiat]

1 hour ago, DeltaPhantom said:

-snip-

the answer, is yes. if it happens consistently, then there is a Leeching problem.
Support will handle investigating, you're only pointing them towards a possibility.

Edited June 6, 2016 by [DE]Taylor
removed inflammatory comment

[BiancaRoughfin]

Player AFKing is reportable and punishable, its an anti-game behavior and can also be considered exploiting of both the other players and the game since you will be taking advantage of other players doing the work for you and of the game not having a mechanism to deal with who idles.

When i join a mission that i notice someone is afking , i just warn the other players and leave, send the non-idlers invites again if the want it. Just leave the idler there on his own to rust.

DE should implement a mechanism, after 2 min a player has been idle, a popup will show on the other player`s screen to "Confirm Afking player", if the AFK player hasnt asked for his teammates to wait for them, they can confirm it and the player will be sent back to the lobby, otherwise his teammates can just wait for his retirn and click on Cancel.

[rapt0rman]

Unless I personally experienced them AFKing more then once I wouldn't bother reporting them, but that's just me.

[HellEnforcer]

Just now, DeltaPhantom said:

I'll grant you that, but a full-on ban?

We're not exactly dealing with a hacker here, but I digress.

I would much rather have changes to game mechanics that removed the ability to grief, rather than run in circles trying to smack people for doing stuff they think is hilarious. And let's face it, it's probably next to impossible to completely get rid of leeching, and I'm more concerned with the previously mentioned griefing than a 'leech'.

There are two problem with this whole thing.

This griefing actually comes from situations they can't really get rid of. In the case of some abilities, they were made with the intention of supporting in a way so they can target allies. Unfortunately, they can also be used to annoy. Same with the life support capsules. They could easily lock them to be unnable to be activated unless the air is less than 70%. But this would also cause problems. Personally I activate them even when at 100% if they are too far from our selected defense room and we are capped (we usually select a room and make our stand there).

Leeching on the other hand is actually far easier to remove, as it is no mechanic they could be using that might be helpful for the team at all. They are literally doing nothing.

As taiiat said. Going AFk once is nothing. Real life stuff happens to everyone, whether we like it or not. But if it is done consistently then it is no better than griefing. Support would handle the investigation. Hence it needs to be reported.

[Renathy]

A lot of users are saying it's not reportable but it actually is. I have reported a few users myself back when there was no anti-AFK system in place and they said they would take care of it. However they did I wouldn't know. They didn't give me any details about it.

[Cray]

Eh, I don't know anymore.

I can understand hatred for players who constantly AFK and contribute nothing, but... "whatever, man". If it's a public squad, I go in expecting to do 90% of the work, that way I can be pleasantly surprised when everyone else pulls their weight, and be completely unfazed when I end up doing 95%.

 

Recruiting squads are easier. Are they AFK-leeching? Abort and reform with someone else. And that's a rare sight indeed. Worst case scenario, I dump them in my ignore list and move on, and even that's pushing it.

[-Kryptyk-]

1 hour ago, DeltaPhantom said:

But is this really something we should be doing?

Sure, they kinda disrupt the mission at times, but we can do that already, without going AFK. How far are we going to go with policing gameplay behavior? I can't help but wonder what percentage of support tickets are for previously mentioned "petty bickering" that shouldn't really have gone to support in the first place.

To everyone questioning why it is bannable, if it is, the answer is yes, and it's because it's considered a form of harassment/spam.  If you don't say "brb", or you're just going to be "that guy", you're setting yourself up for a player report.  And since when is "policing behavior" a bad thing? ever heard of rules?  or basic respect to your squadmates?  How is it respect to leech off of other people in general?  If I catch you afk, I'm taking screenshots and sending the report in whether you like it or not.  So before anyone gets all uptight about "oh we shouldn't ban afk players", read the rules, code of conduct, and use basic common sense logic.  AFK'ing is bannable.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Firefly0037

[Weidro]

1 hour ago, DeltaPhantom said:

But is this really something we should be doing?

Sure, they kinda disrupt the mission at times, but we can do that already, without going AFK. How far are we going to go with policing gameplay behavior? I can't help but wonder what percentage of support tickets are for previously mentioned "petty bickering" that shouldn't really have gone to support in the first place.

im not here to tell u if u should or not

OP asked if its a legitimate reason to report afk players

the answer is: yes it is

all discussions about is it good/fair or not belong in a different thread

no matter if u like the truth or not its a fact that the discussion here is derailing this thread

and bevore u ask on my opinion u can have it: make up ur own mind, if u think u need to report afk players go ahead but if u dont want to then dont, there is nothing that forces u to report someone else, and in the end its DEs decission what they do to the reported player

 

nuff said

lock this thread

[Cray]

Just now, Firefly0037 said:

And since when is "policing behavior" a bad thing? ever heard of rules?  or basic respect to your squadmates?

It is not the act of policing, but the enforcement of policy. There comes a point where cost outweighs benefit, especially when it relies on proof of intent. (Such as Limbo's #4 in "strategic" locations)

Respecting your teammates is one thing, being overzealous about it is another. "He was AFK for 20.235 seconds. BAN!"

[-Kryptyk-]

3 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

It is not the act of policing, but the enforcement of policy. There comes a point where cost outweighs benefit, especially when it relies on proof of intent. (Such as Limbo's #4 in "strategic" locations)

Respecting your teammates is one thing, being overzealous about it is another. "He was AFK for 20.235 seconds. BAN!"

Per DE, being gone for more than 60 seconds means you're eligible for being treated as an AFK - the system even has an AFK penalty for that.  Policing is enforcing policy, and, if anything, that includes AFK policy.  And the cost of that will never outweigh the benefit, as preventing the entirety of the community from encountering leeches/trolls is always a good thing.

[Fi-le]

2 hours ago, (PS4)SektorZR1 said:

found 2 nasty afkers in sortie today and should i report them?

die lizard leech bloody worm!

when Saryn Prime came out i did a Surv 3 of 60mins with other 3 people. (keep in mind 60mins ok?) 

in that team there was one person who has been standing in the same spot for ALL 60 MINUTES, he moved only a few seconds before the reward, for example: at 30:58, 35:58, 40:58... and so on until the end of the mission, and NO ONE complain about him.

if someone walks away because maybe a parent / son, idk ... calls or have to go to the bathroom it's FINE for me, but 60 minutes? and you're moving only to take the reward? you deserve a physical punishment (a beating on his face would be fine for me XD), but unfortunately the only thing we can do is to send a Ticket to support and pray that they receive the proper punishment.

i obviously sent a ticket with screenshots, A LOT, and abviously i can't show it here XD 

sorry for my english

Edited June 6, 2016 by Fi-le

[DaftMeat]

It absolutely is and you absolutely should. Not everyone is a MR21 Veteran who can solo Sorties. When AFKholes join Sorties, the other players are always left to pick up the slack for their non-contribution. Players who are new to the game, low MR players, and people still working on maxing mods are often struggling to get through sorties as-is, they should not have to be burdened by other players who just can't be bothered to help out even though they are perfectly capable of doing so.

In a Friends Only/Invite Only game if your squad-mates are nice enough to carry you while you do nothing more than eat a bowl of cereal, then whatever. Fine by me. Public-group squads are another matter entirely.

If you spot someone who might be AFKing:

1) Ask if they are AFK in chat

2) Take a screenshot of AFK player with text showing (preferably with time-stamp)

3) After a few minutes, ask again and take another screenshot (preferably with time-stamp showing time has passed and player has not moved/spoken)

4) After you finish/abort your mission, submit a support ticket with screenshots attached

 

Support will never give you the full follow-up, but they will reply thanking you for bringing it to their attention and noting that they will be keeping an eye out for more reports on the same player. People should be reporting these players, otherwise nothing will change without repeat reports. The whole "No snitching!" mentality is propagated by people who want to get away with breaking the rules at other people's expenses. I prefer to abide by "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." 

[-Kryptyk-]

Just now, DaftMeat said:

It absolutely is and you absolutely should. Not everyone is a MR21 Veteran who can solo Sorties. When AFKholes join Sorties, the other players are always left to pick up the slack for their non-contribution. Players who are new to the game, low MR players, and people still working on maxing mods are often struggling to get through sorties as-is, they should not have to be burdened by other players who just can't be bothered to help out even though they are perfectly capable of doing so.

In a Friends Only/Invite Only game if your squad-mates are nice enough to carry you while you do nothing more than eat a bowl of cereal, then whatever. Fine by me. Public-group squads are another matter entirely.

If you spot someone who might be AFKing:

1) Ask if they are AFK in chat

2) Take a screenshot of AFK player with text showing (preferably with time-stamp)

3) After a few minutes, ask again and take another screenshot (preferably with time-stamp showing time has passed and player has not moved/spoken)

4) After you finish/abort your mission, submit a support ticket with screenshots attached

 

Support will never give you the full follow-up, but they will reply thanking you for bringing it to their attention and noting that they will be keeping an eye out for more reports on the same player. People should be reporting these players, otherwise nothing will change without repeat reports. The whole "No snitching!" mentality is propagated by people who want to get away with breaking the rules at other people's expenses. I prefer to abide by "Don't do the crime if you can't do the time." 

this ^

[Cray]

13 minutes ago, Firefly0037 said:

And the cost of that will never outweigh the benefit, as preventing the entirety of the community from encountering leeches/trolls is always a good thing.

There will always be an upper limit. It is always possible to go too far.

 

 

I get that my opinion differs from most, and is rather unpopular. I bow out, in favor of peace, because I never did like arguing. _{Guess this means I auto-concede all points? /shrug}

[-Kryptyk-]

3 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

There will always be an upper limit. It is always possible to go too far.

 

 

I get that my opinion differs from most, and is rather unpopular. I bow out, in favor of peace, because I never did like arguing. _{Guess this means I auto-concede all points? /shrug}

there is no such thing as going too far when taking care of other people.  only the lazy and selfish do nothing and let others experience the same pain that you might. 

(pretty sure there's a life lesson somewhere in here)

[DaftMeat]

2 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said:

There will always be an upper limit. It is always possible to go too far.

 

 

I get that my opinion differs from most, and is rather unpopular. I bow out, in favor of peace, because I never did like arguing. _{Guess this means I auto-concede all points? /shrug}

You are certainly welcome to your opinion on the topic, but as already noted DE Support has a specific category for reporting AFK players and they thank people who bring it to their attention and care about the community.

No one is going to force you to report AFK players yourself, but the actual people who run the game and set it's policies apparently wish you would.

[gluih]

2 hours ago, DeltaPhantom said:

It may be their job, but that doesn't guarantee they won't ever be understaffed.

And I was showcasing extremes, some of which probably could be reported, although some are much harder to enforce. (Such as Limbo casting #4 on top of a rare mod)

The point is, if we justify punishing AFK players because they're clearly not contributing, then it's easy to justify punishing behavior that clearly shouldn't be punished. That doesn't matter on the support side of things, because they already know what they will and won't punish. Where it will matter, however, is the players. Promoting the idea that any "objectively bad" behavior is punishable opens the door for more toxic interactions ("Do it my way, or I'll report you").

I guess that's really the gist of my entire argument: It's not about what support will do, but how players will handle such options.

Being afk especially when you are still at the mission entrance is a big difference to all the other things you mentioned.

 

And again- just talk to the other players. It is a lot easier to avoid reports if you use the chat and communicate with the rest of your squad. That's way better than finding arbitrary reasons to not report someone who is cearly afk.

[Klazik]

I have reported AFK players several times and gotten good response from the support desk. I always use a screenshot of the mission results, to prove their inactivity.