Vaykor Hek or Hek?

[Gameverseman]

So I already know the differences between these two and I'm enjoying using the regular hek on my Mesa along with the Vaykor Marelok and redeemed. But I have a problem. I really want to use the Vaykor Hek (once I hit MR 12) because I like the increase in mag, increase in crit, but my favorite, the built in syndicate proc. Nice thing about it being built in is that that's one more mod space I can use over the regular Hek. But everyone, and I mean everyone, says the best way to use it is with a headshot crit build. I don't like this for two reasons. One: I don't have any primed mods. Two: headshots as a playstyle/strategy, with a shotgun mind you, is not my preference. I'm a simpleton, I just want to blow enemies to hell no matter where I hit them. So people say stay with the regular hek. So, I guess my question is, does not running a headshot crit build really act as a detriment to the Vaykor Hek to the point where's it's not worth using, or is it still viable? Any insight would be much appreciated.

[Altrice]

I've got a crit build on my Vaykor Hek, but I too am a mere simpleton. You don't need primed mods nor to aim for the head, it will demolish enemies regardless of where you hit them. The Vaykor Hek has such a sheer amount of power it's not much of a concern. I say go for it if you think you'll like it.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

7 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

Nice thing about it being built in is that that's one more mod space I can use over the regular Hek.

Unfortunately it doesn't work out like that, because to be comparable on damage the Vaykor needs to run crit mods.  Think of it in these terms:

Hek: syndicate proc + 200% multishot mod

V. Hek: syndicate proc + 110% crit damage mod

In either case you are using a mod slot and getting the proc. 

FWIW, I prefer the V. Hek but I have a primed ravage and was willing to pay the cost in cores and credits to max it.  Staying with the normal Hek is completely reasonable though.  Chalk this one up to personal preference.

[Dobermann92]

While aiming for headshots isn't mandatory, the crit build is. Primed Point Blank and Primed Ravage are needed for a good build. Otherwise I would stay with the regular Hek.

[rawr1254]

Well when they say headshots make it good they mean you can lock down a lvl 100 gunner with bastille then kinda walk up and insta kill it while regular hek would still take a couple shots in the head still. So keeping it simple hek(lvl 40-100~) V hek(lvl 100-160~) falloff. And this is only true if you headshot the higher lvl enemies with the v hek.

And to better explain crit headsots:

Certain body parts on enemies, most notably heads, will receive additional damage when struck. This location-based damage increase is usually a 2.0x multiplier, but if the strike is a critical hit, then the strike receives an additional 2.0x multiplier on top of the location multiplier and the crit multiplier. This means that while a normal bodyshot results in your weapon's listed damage (before mitigation), a critical headshot from a weapon with a 2.0x crit multiplier would deal 8.0x that listed damage!

Critical Headshot Damage = Damage × Critical Multiplier × Headshot Multiplier × Headcrit Multiplier

So this is why v hek scales better than hek

Edited June 6, 2016 by rawr1254

[Gameverseman]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

Unfortunately it doesn't work out like that, because to be comparable on damage the Vaykor needs to run crit mods.  Think of it in these terms:

Hek: syndicate proc + 200% multishot mod

V. Hek: syndicate proc + 110% crit damage mod

In either case you are using a mod slot and getting the proc. 

FWIW, I prefer the V. Hek but I have a primed ravage and was willing to pay the cost in cores and credits to max it.  Staying with the normal Hek is completely reasonable though.  Chalk this one up to personal preference.

It's simpler than that though. My V Hek would have the same build as my current Hek. But I would have one freed up slot. Sure, I lose 90% multishot but meh *shrugs*. The innate buffs the V Hek has over the Hek will, in theory, make my build that much better, regardless if I take advantage of crit.

[Gameverseman]

3 minutes ago, Dobermann92 said:

While aiming for headshots isn't mandatory, the crit build is. Primed Point Blank and Primed Ravage are needed for a good build. Otherwise I would stay with the regular Hek.

So you basically just told me what I already knew from other people but have not answered my question.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

3 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

It's simpler than that though. My V Hek would have the same build as my current Hek. But I would have one freed up slot. Sure, I lose 90% multishot but meh *shrugs*. The innate buffs the V Hek has over the Hek will, in theory, make my build that much better, regardless if I take advantage of crit.

You lose 200% mulitshot, not 90% which is a little more than meh. 

For us to comment further on the idea we'd need to know what mod you want use in the "open" slot instead of a crit mod.

[Gameverseman]

14 minutes ago, EtherealArc said:

I've got a crit build on my Vaykor Hek, but I too am a mere simpleton. You don't need primed mods nor to aim for the head, it will demolish enemies regardless of where you hit them. The Vaykor Hek has such a sheer amount of power it's not much of a concern. I say go for it if you think you'll like it.

Call me impractical but I run a fire/dmg build on mine. Incendiary coat, blaze, scattering inferno, point blank, shotgun ammo mutation, vicious spread, augment, and either a clip extension or reload speed mod. That being said you answered my question. Thanks.

[Dobermann92]

9 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

So you basically just told me what I already knew from other people but have not answered my question.

I answered your question, but I'll post a more direct answer then: No matter what mod you will use, you will lose out on pure damage because of the Scattering Justice mod. You can put a 90% elemental in the Vaykor Hek but that won't be enough. So if you use the same builds on both shotgun, I would recommend the normal Hek.

[Gameverseman]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Agent_CHAR said:

You lose 200% mulitshot, not 90% which is a little more than meh. 

For us to comment further on the idea we'd need to know what mod you want use in the "open" slot instead of a crit mod.

Hell's chamber which is 110% multishot, I believe. Whereas I used the Aug instead on the regular hek. So going from Hek to V Hek I lose 90% multishot. Sure, I could have had 310% multishot on the regular Hek but that would have been redundant and a potential detriment if devs have their way with multishot consuming ammo. 

[Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

My V Hek would have the same build as my current Hek.

Then stay with the regular Hek, since that build won't do so well on the Vaykor Hek. I use the Vaykor Hek with a crit build, and I rarely bother aiming for the head. In fact I rarely ADS, instead I just hipfire my enemies into clouds of red mist. But I have Primed Ravage. You can get by just fine with Shrapnel Shot, but that requires aiming for the head to keep the buff going, and of course you'd have to have that mod. I'd stick with the regular Hek till you can get a good crit damage mod (i.e. better than Ravage), but once you get one I highly recommend the Vaykor variant.

BTW, don't be put off by the cost of ranking up Primed Ravage. Rank 8 is easy to get to, and will get you most of what you want. Rank 9 is harder, but still reasonable if you're patient. Feel free to put off that last rank (or even those last 2) as long as you need. +90% or +100% crit damage is plenty for this monster.

[Zhoyzu]

it used to be Hek or go home. The vaykor hek isnt bad. The gun is strong while barely modded.

[(PSN)Agent_CHAR]

3 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

Hell's chamber which is 110% multishot, I believe. Whereas I used the Aug instead on the regular hek. So going from Hek to V Hek I lose 90% multishot. Sure, I could have had 320% multishot on the regular Hek but that would have been redundant and a potential detriment if devs have their way with multishot consuming ammo. 

Worrying about potential future changes is silly.  If you are not running both multishot mods on your Hek today then you are giving up a ton of damage.  Period.  In addition you get much better damage multipliers from a combined element like corrosive or radiation than you do with straight fire.  An ammo mutation is a complete waste of a slot also.  If you burn through your ammo its another indication that your damage is lacking.

But go ahead and gimp your V. Hek build too as that will match your current gimped Hek build. 

I'm not trying to antagonize you with that last comment, but it really seems like you don't want to hear any one's answer that contradicts what you already think.  Which is fine, but why then start this thread?

[Gameverseman]

Crit or nothing on the Vaykor Hek makes no sense. How does a loss in multishot translate into "crit or nothing, if you want to be effective"? Let me use a car as an example. Hek and Vaykor Hek are car body frames. Take the guts of the Hek and put it in the Vaykor Hek which is slightly better innately than the hek. It stands to reason that the Vaykor Hek will no just as good, if not, better than the regular Hek. Yet most of you are saying get new S#&$ towards drifting or stay drag racing in the Hek. It doesn't make sense.

[(XBOX)Woofsie]

I thought we were talking about this marvel of nature:

I'm disappointed it wasn't.

(Don't know if this worked as I normally don't post images)

 

[ivlr3vil]

I prefer the Vaykor Hek over the Hek, I like to aim and headshot enemies. It's also why I mostly prefer the Rakta Cernos too. I've noticed the Vaykor Hek outperforming the Hek multishot for late game and it can for sure carry you for low levels too considering the fall off doesn't last till later.

I have the maxed out primed ravage mod though.

They're similar, but once you've got the Vaykor Hek fully leveled, it's impossible to go back to Hek really.

[DaftMeat]

Simple answer: they both demolish 90%+ of the game, but personally I feel that Crit-based weapons tend to dominate late game (looking at you, Tonkor...) so I lean towards Vaykor Hek for high level stuff.

[Azrael]

4 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

ake the guts of the Hek and put it in the Vaykor Hek which is slightly better innately than the hek. It stands to reason that the Vaykor Hek will no just as good, if not, better than the regular Hek.

But you aren't using ALL of the guts. More multishot translates to more damage, and the Vaykor Hek needs to take advantage of its superior crit stats in order to make up for the loss of scattering justice. The Vaykor Hek IS better, once you make use of its crit potential. It's not better without that (or at least, it does less damage).

 

21 minutes ago, Gameverseman said:

Hell's chamber which is 110% multishot, I believe. Whereas I used the Aug instead on the regular hek. So going from Hek to V Hek I lose 90% multishot.

I think maybe your Hek build could get a little stronger, then. Hell's Chamber is a large increase in damage. I'd recommend learning to deal with the unmodded reload speed and putting Hell's Chamber back on, unless you're using it for low-level or mid-level content. In THAT case the Vaykor Hek will be plenty strong enough with normal Ravage.

[Tendou_Souji]

[Pizzarugi]

From my experience, I found the vaykor hek to be a lot more viable than regular hek, even if you're not consistently scoring headshots. The weapon already has a stupidly tight spread on it as well, which means you can still do a great deal of damage at longer range than practically any other shotgun.

Vaykor Hek outshines the regular one if you have the primed mods for it, otherwise both seem pretty even between each other. It ultimately boils down to preference at this point. If you put some practice aiming for headshots, even a non-prime modded Vaykor Hek will far outperform the standard.

[taiiat]

not aiming for Weakpoints with Vaykor Hek will tend to be a slight downgrade in Damage per Shot.
but honestly pretty close, so if you like the Rate of Fire and Magazine Size, you CAN get away without aiming for Weakpoints.

honestly though, for the vast majority of Enemies, hitting Weakpoints is just 'aim at the neck so about half hits Weakpoint and nothing misses', which isn't difficult to do really, you're just aiming a bit higher than center mass rather than center mass.

 

if you are willing to aim for Weakpoints to atleast some degree, without Primed Ravage it already deals more Damage per Shot.

 

if you really refuse to use the Mods that suit the Weapon better, then the original Hek will serve you better.
but that's kind've nonsense, rather than using a Weapon towards it's strengths while compensating for weaknesses, you decide to just put whatever Mods on, because because.
on some Weapons alternate preferences for Mod Loadouts makes sense, the biggest contender i've seen is people not using Crit Mods on Lanka for more consistency (though this is no longer since it has a Crit Chance Bonus, so then would be only other Sniper Rifles i guess). while i guess you could use no Crit Mods on Vaykor Hek, if you do so it's really not an upgrade at all, the double Magazine Size won't do you much good because you'll need more than double the Shots to Kill Enemies.

 

it's also worth noting that due to the extreme Muilti-shot on Hek, it can actually apply some mediocre Status, when Shotguns in general tend to apply abysmal Status.
not... that useful, but worth noting anyways.

[Gameverseman]

33 minutes ago, taiiat said:

not aiming for Weakpoints with Vaykor Hek will tend to be a slight downgrade in Damage per Shot.
but honestly pretty close, so if you like the Rate of Fire and Magazine Size, you CAN get away without aiming for Weakpoints.

honestly though, for the vast majority of Enemies, hitting Weakpoints is just 'aim at the neck so about half hits Weakpoint and nothing misses', which isn't difficult to do really, you're just aiming a bit higher than center mass rather than center mass.

 

if you are willing to aim for Weakpoints to atleast some degree, without Primed Ravage it already deals more Damage per Shot.

 

if you really refuse to use the Mods that suit the Weapon better, then the original Hek will serve you better.
but that's kind've nonsense, rather than using a Weapon towards it's strengths while compensating for weaknesses, you decide to just put whatever Mods on, because because.
on some Weapons alternate preferences for Mod Loadouts makes sense, the biggest contender i've seen is people not using Crit Mods on Lanka for more consistency (though this is no longer since it has a Crit Chance Bonus, so then would be only other Sniper Rifles i guess). while i guess you could use no Crit Mods on Vaykor Hek, if you do so it's really not an upgrade at all, the double Magazine Size won't do you much good because you'll need more than double the Shots to Kill Enemies.

 

it's also worth noting that due to the extreme Muilti-shot on Hek, it can actually apply some mediocre Status, when Shotguns in general tend to apply abysmal Status.
not... that useful, but worth noting anyways.

I see your point here. I'll invest somewhat into crit and see how I like it. But up until this point, call me crazy, I just use whatever damage mods I have at my disposal and then compensate for what I don't like in a weapon with whatever capacity and space is left over. But until then, I'll run my fire cannon build (but now I'll add multishot) on my hek before moving to the Vaykor Hek at MR 12.

[Slayarrr]

There actually is a very nice thing called warframe builder (just google it), where you can compare weapons and look up the damage they are doing with the mods you choose. I heartly recommend doing this for everyone who believes the normal Hek is better than the syndicate version (in fact, the Vaykor Hek is pretty much always better, regardless of primed mods or you shooting the head).