Chroma's Tail

[IEpicWolfI]

So I noticed a stealth patch (I think) that recently Chroma's tail turned from a tail to a floppy, flaccid attachment. Why :/

 

 Can we have the old, stiff-er tail back?

[[DE]Taylor]

Moved to the Art, Animation, & UI subforum.

[Cradicias]

Huh... Can't believe I didn't notice this till now. Yes, please, old tail, DE.

[IEpicWolfI]

3 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Moved to the Art, Animation, & UI subforum.

 Thought I posted it the wrong one, soz guv'nor!

[Genitive]

The way the tail behaves now is pretty bad. It also tends to cover the reticle when aim-gliding.

[Valiant]

14 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

Huh... Can't believe I didn't notice this till now. Yes, please, old tail, DE.

No thanks. The previous tail used the old physics which were kinda shabby.

Rather have this for now.

[Cradicias]

Just now, Naith said:

No thanks. The previous tail used the old physics which were kinda shabby.

Rather have this for now.

Thing is, the tail isn't cloth. It's a pelt and much heavier. Looks too flimsy. Rather have old till they give him a more custom effect for his tail.

[IEpicWolfI]

1 minute ago, Cradicias said:

Thing is, the tail isn't cloth. It's a pelt and much heavier.

 Precisely

[Valiant]

2 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

Thing is, the tail isn't cloth. It's a pelt and much heavier. Looks too flimsy. Rather have old till they give him a more custom effect for his tail.

When I saw it it didn't give me the impression of cloth compared to what else we've had, especially stuff which has been more floaty. It actually did seem heavier than other physics. I'm still happier with this than the poor version we had before. Less clipping and just generally looks better than the elastic-like tail physics.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Naith

[Brachion]

Yeah, I've noticed this being an issue. DE has applied cloth physics to a lot of things that really don't work with them. It's especially noticeable on some syandanas; they vibrate and bounce around in a very unnatural manner.

[IEpicWolfI]

1 minute ago, Naith said:

 Less clipping and just generally looks better than the elastic-like tail physics.

 Actually there's just as much clipping as it always been. The entire pelt clips through syandanas. And the tail has now cloth physics, making it feel like a rather weird butt-attachment than a tail, like it previously has been.

[Cradicias]

1 minute ago, Naith said:

When I saw it it didn't give me the impression of cloth compared to what else we've had, especially stuff which has been more floaty. It actually did seem heavier than other physics. I'm still happier with this than the poor version we had before. Less clipping and just generally looks better than the elastic-like tail physics.

Watch the tail when you're standing still. It flutters and ripples without you even moving. With how thick the tail is and the fact that a dragon's tail is another limb, it should hang heavy and not really move unless we move.

[Stratego89]

This. This is why I keep saying to leave volt and frost alone. Their "cloth physics" are not cloth physics. They are THIN CLOTH physics. One cloth's physics don't apply to another correctly- and they need to learn that. Not only that but frost's coat tail is ARMORED so it shouldn't be flapping around at all. And then volt's ... for lack of a better term "skirt"... it doesn't look like cloth at all it looks like some sort of rubber-leather fusion- which would also be stiff and not flap around like a flag in the wind.

[Eldnacpeek]

I have to agree with this. I'm hoping this is a temporary measure because I want them to give his tail custom physics and not just updated stock physics.

Edited June 15, 2016 by LazerSkink

[Cradicias]

Up-vote the above post so we can draw their attention to several issues with Chroma.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Cradicias

[IEpicWolfI]

13 minutes ago, Cradicias said:

Up-vote the above post so we can draw their attention to several issues with Chroma.

Yesssss, Chroma SERIOUSLY needs some love.

[Tricky5hift]

Cloth physics for Chroma's tail but not Frost's coat?

FeelsbadDE.

[NightmareT12]

1 minute ago, Tricky5hift said:

Cloth physics for Chroma's tail but not Frost's coat?

FeelsbadDE.

The mesh... They have to cut old Frost's Mesh.

[Valiant]

1 hour ago, IEpicWolfI said:

 Actually there's just as much clipping as it always been. The entire pelt clips through syandanas. And the tail has now cloth physics, making it feel like a rather weird butt-attachment than a tail, like it previously has been.

Haven't rechecked but I thought if you crouched, it clipped through the floor and it now longer does that.

I'm not talking about the pelt though, just the tail. The tail also clipped through syandanas anyways if I remember rightly, so there's no difference, just improved physics with not the best of weights.

1 hour ago, Cradicias said:

Watch the tail when you're standing still. It flutters and ripples without you even moving. With how thick the tail is and the fact that a dragon's tail is another limb, it should hang heavy and not really move unless we move.

That's... Minor and unfortunately comes with most of the new physics. Sure, get rid of that but once more, that aside, it's not that bad.

The big problem with most of the stuff which has the new physics is the mesh detection. Either the syandanas don't have it and/or the frames don't either, so they all clip, massively.

 

57 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

This. This is why I keep saying to leave volt and frost alone. Their "cloth physics" are not cloth physics. They are THIN CLOTH physics. One cloth's physics don't apply to another correctly- and they need to learn that. Not only that but frost's coat tail is ARMORED so it shouldn't be flapping around at all. And then volt's ... for lack of a better term "skirt"... it doesn't look like cloth at all it looks like some sort of rubber-leather fusion- which would also be stiff and not flap around like a flag in the wind.

I don't. They both need something but it without doubt has to be right. Either way that horrid stretching that comes with Frost's and Volt's bits is absolutely terrible and Frost's stick in his skirt/coat/whatever needs to be addressed because that is equally as dumb as floppy bits for armoured clothing. Stuff can flap, just needs to have the appropriate weight is all (which DE's staff should be able to do, if they think about what they're doing) so for that reason they shouldn't be just left alone out of fear.

Edited June 15, 2016 by Naith

[HalfDarkShadow]

Hmm, no wonder I thought something felt different but couldn't exactly put my finger on what.

I like that it doesn't look like it came out of ceramics class and feels more natural, but the two things which I see the issues with, as already mentioned in a few of the comments here, is its clipping issues (as well as mentioning this is more of a accessories+Warframe issue as a whole), and it's weight distribution.

With the latter, that can definitely be easily adjusted when they ever decide to look into that sort of thing. The former though seems to be another whole beast entirely.

Equinox being the biggest offender of this (when her bottom dangly-bits clip and stay stuck inside you until you switch forms anyone?). Regardless though, the mesh detection (or lack thereof) hopefully will be addressed soon in general.

Though personally with cloth on Warframes:

I'd rather they actually make 'real' dresses, because it's clear as day&night (pun intended) that the 'dresses' on Warframes such as Equinox and Banshee's/Oberon's deluxe skins that the bottom half of their dresses are separate entities to the top-half (via waist-up) of the dress(es). Because of that obvious separation, I have a feeling is one of the reasons why you get weird stuck clipping issues with Equinox and the little rubber bits getting stuck inside Banshee's bottom, until you respawn or bullet jump aggressively into a corner of a wall. But I digress~

 

Honestly though regarding Chroma's pelt physics, just throw in Equinox in there (since they're the only two I'm aware of with this kind of issue(s)) and I totally support seeing this get addressed sooner than later!

Edited June 15, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow

[IEpicWolfI]

49 minutes ago, Naith said:

Haven't rechecked but I thought if you crouched, it clipped through the floor and it now longer does that.

I'm not talking about the pelt though, just the tail. The tail also clipped through syandanas anyways if I remember rightly, so there's no difference, just improved physics with not the best of weights.

 Honestly I'd rather have it clip through the floor because it still felt like an extension to the pelt's anatomy than a dangly butt-scarf. It's the same case like back with the Yamako Prime Syandana, where the 'updated' physics made it from a cool syandana into bacon flaps. With hos light it is now, it clips even worse with syandanas.

 

 I hope it gets put back as it was, not clip through the floor and for the entire pelt not to clip with syandanas.

 

 

[Stratego89]

53 minutes ago, Naith said:

I don't. They both need something but it without doubt has to be right. Either way that horrid stretching that comes with Frost's and Volt's bits is absolutely terrible and Frost's stick in his skirt/coat/whatever needs to be addressed because that is equally as dumb as floppy bits for armoured clothing. Stuff can flap, just needs to have the appropriate weight is all (which DE's staff should be able to do, if they think about what they're doing) so for that reason they shouldn't be just left alone out of fear.

Firstly- the reason I say don't touch them at all is because I KNOW they will not do it right- otherwise everything else would have been done right too. DE isn't coding unique cloth physics for every type of cloth. They're just copy pasting one onto everything. They've done it since equinox was released- and that's probably not going to change because it takes time manpower and money to do that they could be putting into more important things.

Secondly- I've never ONCE seen volt / frost's bits do that stupid stretchy thing- only syandanas, limbo's tailcoat, equinox' jiggly bits. Literally only things with the NEW cloth physics. I'm about 90% sure you saw something else on one of those frames stretching (a syandana) and just assumed it was their tailcoat bit when it actually wasn't. If they DO do it and as a volt main and frost lover somehow have never managed to notice it despite staring at my frames with the passion of #FashionFrame- then yeah they need to be fixed, but other than that they're fine as is.

Frost's bit is an armored coat. The most it'd do is flap from the connecting point and then it'd cause weird texture stretching and just look bad in general. As for VOLT- I actually wear something very similar to volt's "skirt" (again for lack of a better term) in the same exact way- with the same exact mounting point on the body. Fun fact, you can do gymnastics and that stuff hardly jiggles. It's due to how it's wrapped at the sides of the hips and not just stuck on the back end. It creates a wrap around that mounts it well. The most it does is jiggle, never flaps like crazy.

 

IF they do do them right- I'm all for it. In the end it's just looks so it hardly matters in the first place. I just don't want something absolutely ludicrous that's going to be extremely distracting.

[NightmareT12]

8 minutes ago, Stratego89 said:

Firstly- the reason I say don't touch them at all is because I KNOW they will not do it right- otherwise everything else would have been done right too. DE isn't coding unique cloth physics for every type of cloth. They're just copy pasting one onto everything. They've done it since equinox was released- and that's probably not going to change because it takes time manpower and money to do that they could be putting into more important things.

Secondly- I've never ONCE seen volt / frost's bits do that stupid stretchy thing- only syandanas, limbo's tailcoat, equinox' jiggly bits. Literally only things with the NEW cloth physics. I'm about 90% sure you saw something else on one of those frames stretching (a syandana) and just assumed it was their tailcoat bit when it actually wasn't. If they DO do it and as a volt main and frost lover somehow have never managed to notice it despite staring at my frames with the passion of #FashionFrame- then yeah they need to be fixed, but other than that they're fine as is.

Frost's bit is an armored coat. The most it'd do is flap from the connecting point and then it'd cause weird texture stretching and just look bad in general. As for VOLT- I actually wear something very similar to volt's "skirt" (again for lack of a better term) in the same exact way- with the same exact mounting point on the body. Fun fact, you can do gymnastics and that stuff hardly jiggles. It's due to how it's wrapped at the sides of the hips and not just stuck on the back end. It creates a wrap around that mounts it well. The most it does is jiggle, never flaps like crazy.

 

IF they do do them right- I'm all for it. In the end it's just looks so it hardly matters in the first place. I just don't want something absolutely ludicrous that's going to be extremely distracting.

I know what you mean, I think that what you're asking for is actually something closer to this:
 

It's true that their cloth solution needs extra work on some areas/items. I'm not too fond either of some recent changes -- but then again they fixed the Noru Prime and the Yamako Prime, so it's all up to time and resources I guess.

As for Chroma himself: I don't find the new physics too bad, but the old ones were too stiff too. I think they just need to add some extra weight and that should give it a nice effect.

[Stratego89]

16 minutes ago, NightmareT12 said:

-snip-

The issue with what you're suggesting is that giving it weight doesn't accomplish what you seem to think it will. It does not keep it from jiggling a ton- in fact it makes it jiggle more. All it does is keep it from moving vertically as much. Look at trinity prime's abomination lobster tail 2.0. That is the result of them making something extremely heavy. Glitches out, jiggles around like it's trying to twerk but cannot. What they need is to make 3 kinds of cloth coding. One that they already have- that "works" (and I use that word VERY lightly) for flat, thin cloth that's free flowing- think the capes. One for stuff like frost's armor that is very stiff and can only jiggle a slight amount and needs lots of force to do so. And one for stuff like volt's tailcoat, chroma's tail, and equinox' dangles. Stuff for thicker, heavy cloth that causes it to sway slower and less radically. They also need to code this stuff to work with physics based on multiple points of mounting- or a complete area of connection. From how it is now it only connects to a single point so you can't really give it proper physics.

 

I don't know any of that ending stuff for a FACT- but based on the limited knowledge I have about this sort of stuff and my observations that seems to be the case. In fact the biggest issue may very well be the single point mounts. It completely lacks restriction in how stuff sways horizontally which causes stuff to clip into itself and flail around too much.

[Krenis]

It looks disgusting currently...that's what i want to do with it...

Edited June 16, 2016 by Krenis