Lunaro Feedback [Megathread]

[Aenris]

Welp, been trying to play Lunaro the last 40 min: Everybody enters then leaves, 'cause nobody wants to wait until we have a 3v3

Guys, that was a little overkill. Can't you settle for a minimum 2v2 at least? either way, unless i have friends online to play, i can't even start a match.

I still say Lunaro needs a way of joining in pairs, so teams are never unbalanced, but i'm not sure if that's possible with the system the engine uses. (and i think if it was possible or easy, Steve would already done that.)

Either way, the 3v3 rule is too much, and now i can't even play.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Arandabido

[The_Snowflake_from_Hell]

Just let players vote to start the match with less than 6 or something.

[KotoKuraken]

2v2 as a minimum would be better than the current 3v3. You can literally open up some videos, watch them, and still be a player short by the time youve navigated to advanced nuclear mechanics due to the wait time 

[daSweep]

Remove the stun. You get the ball, then carry it for 1/2 of a second then get stunned and drop the ball. 

Shorter rounds. 5 minutes/half time is way too long, it should be max 2-3 minutes/half time. If you get into a match where you're getting steamrolled it's no fun waiting for 10 minutes. People just leave the game instead, which there is no penalty for AFAIK. 

I think Lunaro could be great, and when you get a balanced team where people actually pass the ball instead of throwing it randomly away from you it's quite fun. Just too much frustration with the stunning and long match time.

[KriLL3]

Whelp I just played some again, haven't since it was released, and well it's a bit better... but... I'm not sure if it was because I kept getting teams of players that didn't know the basic controls (and kept trying to carry past the whole enemy team beating em to a pulp...) or not but it's still awful, it's not at all fun, it's so easy to get completely crushed by cheese ball tactics, jumping and gliding is way too powerful, Zephyr can dominate games by simply being out of reach of everyone most of the time and shoot from above, why can you stun/hit non-carrying players? I played goalie and was pummeled all game by the enemy's "I'll sit here and wait for a pass all game to score" player. Why can carrying players attack? I still have no idea what so ever if I got the ball or not, I can't figure out a reliable way to know in those big melees that seem to be 90% of all games.

Since no one on my team cared for defense at all I became the default goalie, which isn't fun at all, especially since you have no real way of knowing if you're anywhere near the goal or not, a line down the middle of the field or similar would be very useful, I kept trying to defend far to the side of the goal because I couldn't see behind me, and I did catch quite a lot of shots at the goal, but got 0 saves for it? I caught 10+ across 3+ matches and nothing, no credit at all. There also seems to be a bug/exploit/issue with the ball reset after a goal, I kept picking up the ball right as it dropped and got instantly pummeled by a player that then scored a free goal, that's not supposed to be possible right?

I don't get passing, is it supposed to be a benefit of some sort? I keep using it and it doesn't seem to improve anything and sure as heck doesn't actually give the ball to my target most of the time.

Checking is so random, I kept checking players and they loose the ball right into their current path of travel and just pick it right back up as if nothing happened, I've been checked and my attacker got the ball right into their hands, checking is way too easy to do and way too powerful still, it's still spammed relentlessly by anyone that has even a modicum of experience.

The colored outline of players at a distance is nice, but I struggle to identify the team of players close enough to not have that effect, can't we have overhead icons back?

Edited June 26, 2016 by KriLL3

[brucifer1]

I unlike many others have no problem with the checking, maybe it's because I'm a huge hockey fan but I like it. In the open field you can either hit with your check and knock the ball away or miss and be left in the dust, I don't think it needs a cool down, it just means you either evade, pass or get clobbered, which I like. If the ball is against the wall and several players are fighting for it it's a bit of a scrum, but that I believe is also good.

What I don't like is that you can not as of yet enter in a squad of three and play as a team, instead the game divides you up to create two teams. If we are going to have tournaments we should be able to start getting some friends together and start working on playing as a team and developing some teamwork and synergy. People who are in a squad should be placed on the same team even if that means waiting a bit for a suitable opposing team.

[Worldbrand]

I came to add my voice to those who would like the mandatory full lobby to be removed.

One of the best things about Lunaro was that since it was new, whenever I wanted to get into a conclave match, there was always somebody playing Lunaro.

Unless I am online at peak times (within 1-2 hours of rollover), it is difficult for me to find a conclave match. Most of the times I join a lobby, people will leave in frustration rather than waiting for other players. I think have been able to play 3 of about 9 Lunaro matches that I joined since Lunaro 5, two of which were already in progress. One of the lobbies I was not able to join emptied out from 5 people after we waited about 3 minutes for a final player.

The full lobby - it's not an awful idea, except for the fact that you can't do anything else in the game while waiting. You can't practice, you can't grind, you can't trade, you can't access your inventory or foundry or mods or your (non-conclave) loadouts while you wait. Some of those are things that you can do while waiting for normal starchart sessions. Other games with lobby queues are successful in this regard because they allow you to queue up while practicing or something. In Conclave, you just sit in a quiet room of frustrated people.

I understand that it's a lot of work, but more robust matchmaking as a whole is something that Warframe has always needed. If you want Lunaro and Conclave to thrive, I think this is definitely something that needs a look. I hope that the path to dedicated servers has this in mind.

[BlackVortex]

1 hour ago, Worldbrand said:

I came to add my voice to those who would like the mandatory full lobby to be removed.

One of the best things about Lunaro was that since it was new, whenever I wanted to get into a conclave match, there was always somebody playing Lunaro.

Unless I am online at peak times (within 1-2 hours of rollover), it is difficult for me to find a conclave match. Most of the times I join a lobby, people will leave in frustration rather than waiting for other players. I think have been able to play 3 of about 9 Lunaro matches that I joined since Lunaro 5, two of which were already in progress. One of the lobbies I was not able to join emptied out from 5 people after we waited about 3 minutes for a final player.

The full lobby - it's not an awful idea, except for the fact that you can't do anything else in the game while waiting. You can't practice, you can't grind, you can't trade, you can't access your inventory or foundry or mods or your (non-conclave) loadouts while you wait. Some of those are things that you can do while waiting for normal starchart sessions. Other games with lobby queues are successful in this regard because they allow you to queue up while practicing or something. In Conclave, you just sit in a quiet room of frustrated people.

I understand that it's a lot of work, but more robust matchmaking as a whole is something that Warframe has always needed. If you want Lunaro and Conclave to thrive, I think this is definitely something that needs a look. I hope that the path to dedicated servers has this in mind.

whats even worse is sitting in a lobby with 5 players for half an hour hoping for that last player to arrive... then people start leaving having wasted 30 minutes of my life for nothing

[Kilamity]

First people complain about games starting when its not a 3v3, then when DE implements this, people start complaining about the wait...

[mrrobotto67]

Just now, Kilamity said:

First people complain about games starting when its not a 3v3, then when DE implements this, people start complaining about the wait...

i think they should emplement 2v2 and 3v3 so there is less waiting and more playing :D

[Vaxillian]

Matchmaking still needs tweaking.

I sat in a lobby for well over 10 minutes with 3 other people and we couldn't start early. You guys need to allow the match to start early within a certain amount of players and set lobby queues of 2 players for a fair match add up.

[Vaxillian]

4 minutes ago, Kilamity said:

First people complain about games starting when its not a 3v3, then when DE implements this, people start complaining about the wait...

Because no one wants to wait too damn long for a match that may never start. The way they fixed fairness was not efficient.

They need player queues of 2 instead of waiting for a full lobby.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Vaxillian

[Kilamity]

Just now, Vaxillian said:

Because no one wants to wait too damn long for a match that may never start. The way they fixed fairness was not efficient.

They need player queues of 2 and not wait for a full match.

people were literally asking for matches to start when its a full 3v3...they did what people asked for, you cant really say its not efficient

[Vaxillian]

Just now, Kilamity said:

people were literally asking for matches to start when its a full 3v3...they did what people asked for, you cant really say its not efficient

Well not me. I was asking for better queues.

Just because the community said it doesn't mean it's efficient.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Vaxillian

[Kilamity]

4 minutes ago, Vaxillian said:

Well not me. I was asking for better queues.

Just because the community said it doesn't mean it's efficient.

the thing is, people will then complain about matches becoming 3v2s. Instead of asking for 2v2s, maybe they can let people talk in recruiting while waiting in the lunaro lobby

[Vaxillian]

Just now, Kilamity said:

the thing is, people will then complain about matches becoming 3v2s. Instead of asking for 2v2s, maybe they can let people talk in recruiting while waiting in the lunaro lobby

I said queues of 2 players, that means only adding players if there is enough to make the match always fair.

So if it's 1v1 and some players want to join it'll put 2 other players in a lobby and it them to the 1v1 making it a 2v2.

[Kilamity]

5 minutes ago, Vaxillian said:

I said queues of 2 players, that means only adding players if there is enough to make the match always fair.

So if it's 1v1 and some players want to join it'll put 2 other players in a lobby and it them to the 1v1 making it a 2v2.

my b for the misunderstanding

 

however, wouldnt that just kill 3v3s?

[Vaxillian]

Just now, Kilamity said:

my b for the misunderstanding

 

however, wouldnt that just kill 3v3s?

Not entirely, no.

The game would have a start timer of maybe about a minute or so before it starts early so there is a chance for 3v3's to still exist. It's just a matter of how well DE's servers are holding up and how many players are actually playing.

[Sintag]

Lunaro needs a system to discourage 'goalies' - People who camp in front of the goal and smash the jump button, stopping a lot of balls from flying into it.

 

If they stay in the golden area near the goal for too long (Five seconds?), they become unable to grab the ball and must move to the Center zone to regain the ability to hold it.

Teshin should also have lines warning people that their Arcata are disabled so as to avert frustration regarding "OMG WHY CANT MY ARCATA GRAB BALL?!!!!1!!!"

[YourCuteSister]

Unplayable, Place no-lifers in squad into different match maker.

[The_Snowflake_from_Hell]

17 hours ago, Sintag said:

Lunaro needs a system to discourage 'goalies' - People who camp in front of the goal and smash the jump button, stopping a lot of balls from flying into it.

 

If they stay in the golden area near the goal for too long (Five seconds?), they become unable to grab the ball and must move to the Center zone to regain the ability to hold it.

Teshin should also have lines warning people that their Arcata are disabled so as to avert frustration regarding "OMG WHY CANT MY ARCATA GRAB BALL?!!!!1!!!"

 

Goalies are just a part of the game and there are plenty of ways to counter them, such throwing unstable Lunaros towards the goal which are undefendable and give you a nice 2 points goal bonus or approaching them while you are holding the ball and knocking them off with a shoulder tackle or having a teammate knock them around for you or dribbling them etc.

As to the second point, your arcata is only ever disabled if you are in the adversary zone after scoring a goal and the game warms it to you very clearly.

[The_Snowflake_from_Hell]

20 hours ago, mrrobotto67 said:

people were literally asking for matches to start when its a full 3v3...they did what people asked for, you cant really say its not efficient

I didn't ask for this. Matter of fact I don't care if I have to play 1v2 or 2v3 or even 1v3 so long as I can play at all and gain some conclave standing, anything is better than just waiting on a lobby forever for a match to start.

Edited June 27, 2016 by The_Snowflake_from_Hell
hit the wrong quote key

[Huyhn]

Need to have a 5 second safe zone for team when serving once they've been scored upon, having the opposite team jump out of ring before scoring then rushing back with only bullet jump in without giving the other side a chance to pick up the ball can be exploited way too easily. Either the couple second safe zone or shove the scoring team to halfway court.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Huyhn

[Mystra4]

2 hours ago, Huyhn said:

Need to have a 5 second safe zone for team when serving once they've been scored upon, having the opposite team jump out of ring before scoring then rushing back with only bullet jump in without giving the other side a chance to pick up the ball can be exploited way too easily. Either the couple second safe zone or shove the scoring team to halfway court.

This, BUT for a different reason:  The camera.  After a replay, players often get disoriented by the shift in camera position/angle - this shift is more severe when you are near the goal being scored upon.

 

My idea for a solution:  Give the Lunaro a second before it returns.  Then when it does, disable the Arcata and moves of ALL attacking players, until any of these things happen:

1>  The Lunaro is picked up by a defender

2>  The Lunaro is struck by a defender making it unstable, or

3>  The Lunaro touches the ground

 

This will still result in defending teams having to recover the ball, and allow attacking teams to capitalize on their inattention.  But hopefully, it will allow players to regain their bearings after that camera shift.

[CosmicSolar]

Lunaro is just another tragic addition like Archwing. Hopefully the Archwing rework redeems it. Until then, Lunaro isn't worth the trouble until it gets a real look at. Enough with these minor alterations and patch fixes. They solve little if not make things worse. Already said it before, but if this is to be a "sport" treat it like one. Introducing "immunity" is just sad. You've not really looked into the issues, merely placed a Band-Aid over the areas most complained about. If that's your idea on how to fix Lunaro then it's already doomed. Anyone can say they play sports, but merely knowing the rules doesn't mean you understand the sport. There are reasons why zones, plays, and violations are in place. DE seems to know how sports are played but not the concepts behind why they are played as such.

You've not stopped the check spamming, merely made it less noticeable. You've not done anything to promote passing even though now we have to wait for a full team of 3 on each side to start games. You've not done anything to promote strategy, just made solo play a lot easier now with stagger immunity.

If you simply have no idea how to fix Lunaro for now, just leave it be. Let the dust settle and think things over, completely. I've gone from loving Lunaro, to now having it be the stain that drives me away from the game I love, that is Warframe.