Cray Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said: Two reasons. First, everyone assumes that anyone above a certain MR will have such weapons, or other equally powerful ones. Second, I HAVE seen such posts, only they are worded "H nightmare raid, MR 21 only" because of the first reason. People assume that you have good weapons. If you make a pay2win god gun, people will HAVE to ask whether you have it, specifically. They won't assume you do because it's possible you just haven't paid up yet. Yep, because it's not about the weapons, it's the frames. Saying you don't see recruiting messages asking for certain weapons is like saying you don't hear any complaints in a room full of corpses: Nobody cares, because they're preoccupied with something else. (See: The number of recruiting messages looking for <insert frame here>.) Edited June 19, 2016 by DeltaPhantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiniko Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mhz9OXy86a0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXA559KNopI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U Extra Credits does a very fine job of explaining the flaws of a P2W market. The videos aren't long, 6-7 minutes each. Give em a watch, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 The thing is OP, is why would we even want to pay for the weapon? For a really cheap price I could get Sancti Tigris (highest damage with a synd proc). This shotgun makes the game easy enough. Why the hell would I want to spend 300 plat on a weapon I don't need? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Futurehero Posted June 19, 2016 Author Share Posted June 19, 2016 Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Letter13 said: Damn man why you gotta go and make my effort to type out a well thought out example to waste? :( Because you deserved it, you anti-Wallet Warrior scum! (Or something like that...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiniko Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 MMO players are simple. They want whatever they can get. If there are important things they can't get, they are unhappy. They leave. This applies to people who can't/won't shell out time to trade on the market as well. Dividing your community is never a good idea, because whales need F2P players to brag to. F2P players need free, easy to access content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vali Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Then you're just making another grindwall item like Vauban Prime/Sibear. Your hypothetical values are just making another item in the method DE already implements, pretty much killing your argument about making it P2W. Edit: 7 minutes ago, Letter13 said: -snip- Finding somewhere to put your well thought out comment eh? Edited June 19, 2016 by Agentawesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumfing Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Everyone would be requesting that de should lower the amounts until they actually do it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IceColdHawk Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Drop it already. Please. For the sake of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PoopManZ Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? So we still have really really good weapons at 30 plat in the market. You do some minor increase and jack up the price to 500 plat and 200 to 300 nitain to build. This gun would just be collecting cobwebs in the storefront dude. Edited June 19, 2016 by PoopManZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shiniko Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Refer to Zephyr/Vauban Prime's oxium-cost-rage and Wukong's Nitain rage. Players get salty easily dude. Besides: Edited June 19, 2016 by Shiniko added vid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 2 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Because 50% more is a huge difference when you work with big damage numbers... Like a big difference... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? Still a terrible idea. If it's only obtainable with real money or a currency which non-paying players have no way to obtain (such as through trading), it's P2W and causes all of which I've detailed previously (rifts/discrimination between player groups, locking non-paying players out of content, makes the developers look greedy, etc). If it's obtainable through platinum and platinum is tradeable, then it isn't Pay-to-Win. If it's obtainable through a blueprint that requires resources, it's even further from being Pay-to-Win. At that point it's just an annoyingly hard weapon to get as it requires massive amounts of time and effort of non-paying players to obtain, and should be nerfed into the ground as a weapon because having gear designed to trivialize content is bad, period. This is all starting to sound a lot more like you're just wanting a gun (or set of gear) specifically designed to trivialize content (which as I previously mentioned is bad and should be nerfed into the ground harder than a meteor striking the Earth) rather than a "make the game pay-to-win" thread. And having gear that trivializes content by taking any and all challenges out of the game turns the game hollow; it's unrewarding, boring and sucks the life out of a game. That said, Pay-to-Win is bad, period. And gear designed to trivialize content is bad, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulden Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? No, because then everyone can get it, no wallet size measured. Won't be the first time DE releases a X that requires quite some farming. 6 minutes ago, Futurehero said: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. And still, power creeping, you just really don't want to make any effort in game do you? Edited June 19, 2016 by Souldend78 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rakosta_Kai Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Futurehero said: Ok , so follow up question: What if this gun was only 50% better than the top tier weapons, and not the hypothetical billions. It wouldn't do anything against the enemy scaling as I originally said. But let's say you CAN make it for free, but the BP needs something like 200 Nitain, and 300 of every other rare Resource. The option to get it from market still remains, for..... let's say 500 plat, since some people think 300 is too low. While that would still a huge hassle, would that be pay to win anymore ? It'd still be P2W but that really isn't the problem. The game could even move to that monetization tactic and that wouldn't be the problem. The problem would be the stigma that comes along with it. ... it's a stink that doesn't wash off. That stink would drive many/most players away and DE would have to deal with the stigma going forward. Reputation is important in online games and it needs to be preserved at all costs. Your idea wrecks the rep of the developer for all future endeavors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soulden Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 Just now, Padre_Akais said: That stink would drive many/most players away and DE would have to deal with the stigma going forward. Reputation is important in online games and it needs to be preserved at all costs. Your idea wrecks the rep of the developer for all future endeavors. At this point, and after all responses, I don't really think he cares about any of that. He just want to dip wallet in game, win, call the game boring and move on. But since no p2w.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrael Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: Yep, because it's not about the weapons, it's the frames. Saying you don't see recruiting messages asking for certain weapons is like saying you don't hear any complaints in a room full of corpses: Nobody cares, because they're preoccupied with something else. (See: The number of recruiting messages looking for <insert frame here>.) Well, yes. I was leaving this part out because I wanted to address the question of "bring uberGun" posts. The point is it will either be required, and asked for in recruiting, or not required, in which case why did we bother? And if lots of people DID want to come to a nightmare raid without a single good weapon, it might be a problem. It never comes up, because obviously anybody experienced enough for such a mission has good weapons. If the only good weapons were part of the uberGun series, and people *had* to pay for them, "do you have an uberGun?" might be a relevant question. Think of the Jordas raid: when one or two people don't have good AW gear, it's okay. We can carry them. But if nobody had good AW weapons, or good weapons in general, that raid would be a lot harder... 11 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: Saying you don't see recruiting messages asking for certain weapons is like saying you don't hear any complaints in a room full of corpses: Nobody cares, because they're preoccupied with something else. 11 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: is like saying you don't hear any complaints in a room full of corpses: 11 minutes ago, DeltaPhantom said: you don't hear any complaints in a room full of corpses uh... um... okay, so I was just wondering... um... how many times have you... you know... ...never mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drufo Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Futurehero said: Would that really be a problem ? -This game is Co-op... Exactly. where's the cooperation if one single member of the squad kills everyone with his platium-shooting gun leaving his mates with nothing to do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cray Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 3 minutes ago, Padre_Akais said: It'd still be P2W but that really isn't the problem. The game could even move to that monetization tactic and that wouldn't be the problem. The problem would be the stigma that comes along with it. ... it's a stink that doesn't wash off. That stink would drive many/most players away and DE would have to deal with the stigma going forward. Reputation is important in online games and it needs to be preserved at all costs. Your idea wrecks the rep of the developer for all future endeavors. If there was ever a single word that summed up the issue, it would be that one. Just now, Lord_Azrael said: uh... um... okay, so I was just wondering... um... how many times have you... you know... ...never mind. Let's just say mistakes were made. Yeah, that's my story, and I'm sticking to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dreddeth Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 At the risk of being too forward, asking for a gun which you've pretty explicitly hoped will trivialize the game's content, when recent and upcoming changes, such as frame nerfs/reworks and Damage 3.0, are centered around making the game more legitimately challenging by removing both cheese and the hyper-scaling that necessitates it, is asinine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 1 minute ago, Drufo said: Exactly. where's the cooperation if one single member of the squad kills everyone with his platium-shooting gun leaving his mates with nothing to do? Agreed. T4 Survival is ez now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyus Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 What about pay to not die. Non payers take 100% friendly fire, you get marks of toughness that decrease friendly fire by 25% per rank, up to 4 ranks. If that annoying non-payer chooses not to contribute to the mission objective you can strongly encourage them with your tonkor! Have a MR5 on your sortie run who pumps out a whopping 2% damage? Not a problem! Murder is the answer. Hats, hats bring in the cash, sell high quality fasion frame and people will buy those. P2W or P2ND are not the answers. They want money, pump tennogen quality assets worth pay for on a regular basis. I have a feeling that no one there is starving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleak-Knight Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) Should this topic be closed? Edited June 19, 2016 by Bleak-Knight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 6 minutes ago, Pyus said: What about pay to not die. Non payers take 100% friendly fire, you get marks of toughness that decrease friendly fire by 25% per rank, up to 4 ranks. If that annoying non-payer chooses not to contribute to the mission objective you can strongly encourage them with your tonkor! Have a MR5 on your sortie run who pumps out a whopping 2% damage? Not a problem! Murder is the answer. Hats, hats bring in the cash, sell high quality fasion frame and people will buy those. P2W or P2ND are not the answers. They want money, pump tennogen quality assets worth pay for on a regular basis. I have a feeling that no one there is starving. Do you listen to music, perhaps some: Spoiler Seriously though, please try not to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Vaktalor Posted June 19, 2016 Share Posted June 19, 2016 (edited) im sorry but 300 plat for a gun that can only be obtained by plat that does 3k damage no thank you my vaykor marelok does a bit more damage than 3k i hate to be the one to brag but it's true yes it's full auto but let's be real here no matter what happens scaling would be a problem eventually one way or the other at a level when enemies absorb bullets like a shamwow Edited June 19, 2016 by (XB1)falconpwnch0234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts