Mag Prime Vault Feedback

[Nijyumensou]

53 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

The deal itself if I didn't have those things i would've insta-bought this and at "Face value" is indeed good.  However given the age of those prime items.. and since someone like me has been around since CBT, I already have those things.  And therein lies the issue.  Would've loved to have the option of receiving the prime vault items as blueprints, and give them to younger players that are friends of mine and that would've also immediately land them a sale.  

So like many others, the dilemma is do we pay 60 USD for basically a few slots, the credit value of the mag/boar/dakra prime, 1200 plat, and the armor.  Still as I've cited earlier, there was quite the significant support for an accessories pack option, and we were told they'd look into this.  And here we are... no other option, let alone a comment regarding why there isn't one/the reasons behind it.

Also, Hello Silva~

. first ,ask yourself if you are a stakeholder of DE because only then they will have to reveal to you(if you are a stakeholder) their profit growth which should include the reasoning behind it. I mean...you can't expect a private business profit report to be transparent to the public? Think about it this way, majority of the player who are going to support this package will never say a thing about it on forum because there is no need to( that's why most of the opinion are about all the bashing of DE's decision).

Edited June 29, 2016 by Nijyumensou

[CaliburxZero]

So for some reason i couldn't quote Nijyumensou and it made me quote silva (please mods delete my previous post it won't let me fix it), but let me say this...  

 

You're creating a false premise, or at the very least, a large assumption.  You're trying to frame this on the idea DE has decided to not offer an alternative solution nor comment on this because this ties into their profit share/growth and therefore not only it was justified, but also refers to information that a player like me doesn't even deserve to have access to.  Sorry, no.

As many have said before, please cite some direct proof that your assumption is correct because until you can cite where this is a question of profit share, you're blowing hot air into what you believe is an "Air-tight" justification for how Prime Vault Access is handled.  Which i'm sorry to say, the burden of proof is on you for this one.  

Edited June 29, 2016 by CaliburxZero

[SilvaDreams]

58 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

The deal itself if I didn't have those things i would've insta-bought this and at "Face value" is indeed good.  However given the age of those prime items.. and since someone like me has been around since CBT, I already have those things.  And therein lies the issue.  Would've loved to have the option of receiving the prime vault items as blueprints, and give them to younger players that are friends of mine and that would've also immediately land them a sale.  

So like many others, the dilemma is do we pay 60 USD for basically a few slots, the credit value of the mag/boar/dakra prime, 1200 plat, and the armor.  Still as I've cited earlier, there was quite the significant support for an accessories pack option, and we were told they'd look into this.  And here we are... no other option, let alone a comment regarding why there isn't one/the reasons behind it.

Also, Hello Silva~

Well there are a few reasons I can see why they did what they did

1) It keeps the accessories locked to a prime release.

2) It keeps those who originally bought it for about the same price during prime access happy because they won't feel ripped off because people are getting it for really cheap now.

3) Financially it is a smart move because if someone really wants the accessories they'll pay.

 

Also heya Calibur o/

 

 

And no I have no stock in the company I've just been trained to manage stores so I have experience with customer handling, marketing and matters of financial motives.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

1 hour ago, SilvaDreams said:

You are getting Prime Accessories and all the primes with slots and reactors plus plat for the original price of just the Accessories.

The entitlement is strong!

Awesome! I can get the Primes I already have and can only sell for a few thousand credits, some reactors I don't need and some plat I have no use for! That's an amazing deal!

[DiabolicalHamSandwich]

9 hours ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

When I look at the Prime Accessories Pack, there's one word that stands out for me, which is "Exclusive"

This is a promise from DE to everyone buying this pack that the deal will never be available again

Therefore, the best deal they could do for you, without breaking that pact with everyone who bought the accessories the first time around, is the same pack at the same price but without the boosters. Honestly you should be thankful that the accessories are available again at all.

I don't know what the $ price is, but for me the Prime Accessories pack is £32.99, and lets face it, you buy it for the Accessories and the boosters are a non factor

The Vault pack is £39.59, that's a difference of a whole £6.50 for something which, until these Vault Packs came along, you never stood to have another chance at acquiring

Honestly, if DE just released this pack separately, for the same price, but with just the accessories and the plat, then I don't think nearly as many people would be complaining. But by adding some equipment they've somehow upset everyone.

If they had released just the accessories at the Prime Access price, then everyone who bought the Accessory Pack the first time around would be complaining that a deal offered to them as "exclusive" was not, because they don't perceive the boosters to be a meaningful change to the deal

See the 1st part is where you have already fumbled. By exclusive they mean in how to obtain it. It has been stated many upon many times that nothing but the Founders items were actually exclusive (there are a few rare oddities here and there in the same boat to a degree though) and never coming back. Exclusive to buying and otherwise unobtainable in game. Same way the prime mods are exclusive to baro and otherwise unobtainable in game. There was NO promise as far as I am aware of that those items would not be coming back except once again, founders crud. I think you have your info swapped.

Vault had very little to do with "a deal" of any sort. It was a way to bring back stuff that could no longer be supported in the drop tables so people could get another crack at it. It is as simple as that. So everything after that is a bit moot. 

But yes I do agree most get the PA acc for the acc. Boosters are there imo for both convenience and to soften the blow. But you see that is a difference though. You can just about always use boosters since a lot of new things get released in that time frame giving use to said boosters. People who already have mag, boar, and dakra on the other hand are at a complete loss. So half of what you paid for is useless. 

You are probably right though. If they had just released that without the equips there would be less complaints. I mean unless of course they did it after frosts then no. Even if they had did it at the start they would have to have another pack for the frames themselves because once again the point of the vault was for the frames that got shelved. So even then all that doesn't hold up very well. 

One thing that always baffles me is the "you should be thankful" things people always say when something like this happens. Like someone should just appreciate and accept whatever because "they didn't have to do it!". A business doesn't work "one" way. They provide content, folks provide money. It is a circle of life after all. I am not saying people should be entitled by any means or get so disgruntled but to say "you should be thankful"? fine for a kick let's switch it around. They should be thankful people play and give money to keep it all up then. 

Edited June 29, 2016 by DiabolicalHamSandwich
Somehow missed that repeat

[CaliburxZero]

13 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well there are a few reasons I can see why they did what they did

1) It keeps the accessories locked to a prime release.

2) It keeps those who originally bought it for about the same price during prime access happy because they won't feel ripped off because people are getting it for really cheap now.

3) Financially it is a smart move because if someone really wants the accessories they'll pay.

 

Also heya Calibur o/

 

 

And no I have no stock in the company I've just been trained to manage stores so I have experience with customer handling, marketing and matters of financial motives.

All reasons I have zero issues with.

For your numbered list...

1.  I don't see any reason that locking accessories to a prime release demands that they also lock the prime release content alongside it.  I don't see what's stopping them from merely offering accessories and other stuff veterans could use purely.

2.  I would be 100% ok if they offered stuff that amounts to the same 60 USD, but merely accessories/plat/boosters/other goodies as to not loose money on each sale, tying into the fact that this is a un-vaulting.  The idea of unvaulting is to re-release prime content, plain and simple.  I don't feel the idea of re-releasing prime content and tying them all together like they have where it isn't good for veterans are mutually connected ideas, nor has that been explicitly stated by DE as far as I know.

3.  Well, on the idea of it being a financially smart move, i can agree with that... but I would to say that in my honest opinion, its kind of a dirty move.  Of course there are exceptions but this essentially discourages sales from veterans and angers them who are looking to drop money on the game, but wanting to get the most out of their buck.  I would say in the long run... letting your veterans suffer and not giving them an option that is 100% attractive to them is not good business logically speaking.

 

I respect your opinion and your points are valid, but there are ways to allow DE to make 60 dollar sales which satisfies profits and doesn't devalue existing purchasers of the armor, improve relations with veterans, and the idea of prime unvaulting would be preserved since you'd still be buying re-released prime content, which in my example would be the Targis prime armor naturally.

Why a halfway point aka "compromise" wasn't done is very annoying to say the least.  Especially if they went out of their way to say they'll look into it.  I'm certain people would have at least appreciated DE coming out and saying "Hey, we looked into things and we don't feel its in our best interest to offer an accessories pack/another option" I'm certain while some would be angry/disappointed would have also appreciated the effort in communicating that instead of letting us find out the feedback literally did nothing with no expression that nothing would be done.  DE dropped the ball, and if you/others feel differently, i can respect that.  But my opinion isn't going to change either.

And hey, you should join me to farm up some of this stuff for trading later haha.

Edited June 29, 2016 by CaliburxZero

[Nijyumensou]

4 minutes ago, CaliburxZero said:

So for some reason i couldn't quote Nijyumensou and it made me quote silva (please mods delete my previous post it won't let me fix it), but let me say this...  

 

You're creating a false premise, or at the very least, a large assumption.  You're trying to frame this on the idea DE has decided to not offer an alternative solution nor comment on this because this ties into their profit share/growth and therefore not only it was justified, but also refers to information that a player like me doesn't even deserve to have access to.  Sorry, no.

As many have said before, please cite some direct proof that your assumption is correct because until you can cite where this is a question of profit share, you're blowing hot air into what you believe is an "Air-tight" justification for how Prime Vault Access is handled.  Which i'm sorry to say, the burden of proof is on you for this one.  

In the end, only you and those who disagree with DE's decision will suffer from it since you are the one who is trying to find the reasoning apart from profit. I know i can't provide direct proof but I know it is clearly their decision.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

21 minutes ago, SilvaDreams said:

Well there are a few reasons I can see why they did what they did

1) It keeps the accessories locked to a prime release.

2) It keeps those who originally bought it for about the same price during prime access happy because they won't feel ripped off because people are getting it for really cheap now.

3) Financially it is a smart move because if someone really wants the accessories they'll pay.

 

Also heya Calibur o/

 

 

And no I have no stock in the company I've just been trained to manage stores so I have experience with customer handling, marketing and matters of financial motives.

Just wait till the next one. It should be Noru Prime and they'll probably skip it cos it won't make them enough money and go straight to Edo Prime. Since it's not so desirable and they know it, I'll bet they offer different purchasing options to increase their sales. They will do it and claim they have been listening to feedback and decided to do it as a show of good will. When that happens, remember your reasoning in this thread.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Zilchy

[CaliburxZero]

1 minute ago, Nijyumensou said:

In the end, only you and those who disagree with DE's decision will suffer from it since you are the one who is trying to find the reasoning apart from profit. I know i can't provide direct proof but I know it is clearly their decision.

And in the end, you can dismiss anybody who disagrees with DE's decision, but it won't take away my reasoning, or anybody like-minded who has commented.  Welcome to the internet, where you can claim anything you want and it doesn't mean anything without solid reasoning or logic along with proof.

You can play it off as this was done out of interests of profit, but I can easily turn around and say as many have here that they could offer another package that would satisfy owners of Mag/Boar/Dakra prime already and then make the claim "This would make them more money!".  And then like many other defenders of DE on this subject matter, you'll tell me "They didn't because lack of profit".  

But guess what?  You are not DE.  You don't know their reasoning for sure, you're only guessing just as much as we are guessing it'll make them more money.  Yes, DE had a reason to not offer, but until an official stance on why this was done, trying to claim any type of reason for this is absurd as you don't know.  So go ahead and argue until the cow comes home with me, or anybody else who will be tuning into this thread for the upcoming weeks.  Face it, I and others have every right to be unhappy and discuss this so as long as we don't break forum rules.

[-CdG-Zilchy]

9 hours ago, MordaxPraetorian said:

When I look at the Prime Accessories Pack, there's one word that stands out for me, which is "Exclusive"

This is a promise from DE to everyone buying this pack that the deal will never be available again

Therefore, the best deal they could do for you, without breaking that pact with everyone who bought the accessories the first time around, is the same pack at the same price but without the boosters. Honestly you should be thankful that the accessories are available again at all.

I don't know what the $ price is, but for me the Prime Accessories pack is £32.99, and lets face it, you buy it for the Accessories and the boosters are a non factor

The Vault pack is £39.59, that's a difference of a whole £6.50 for something which, until these Vault Packs came along, you never stood to have another chance at acquiring

Honestly, if DE just released this pack separately, for the same price, but with just the accessories and the plat, then I don't think nearly as many people would be complaining. But by adding some equipment they've somehow upset everyone.

If they had released just the accessories at the Prime Access price, then everyone who bought the Accessory Pack the first time around would be complaining that a deal offered to them as "exclusive" was not, because they don't perceive the boosters to be a meaningful change to the deal

All of that assumes that I agree that the original price is value for money. I don't. It isn't. Let's get real for a second. It's the price of a brand new game for a cosmetic.. I know which one is going to be better value for money out of those 2 options.

[Cenat]

You know if you live in Singapore, and use Steam it costs $130. JUST SO YOU CAN GET TARGIS PRIME ARMOR

 

This is unacceptable. Firstly, people only want Targis Prime armor YET even after numerous complains from Frost Prime unvaulting DE still doesn't care. This needs to change. Protest now with your wallets. Don't buy this scam. Show the DE's they can't just get away with charging so much and disrespecting veterans. 

[Naftal]

DE aren't the reason why it costs so much in your country.

Also, how is any of this disrespectful for veterans?

If DE sold accessory packages at less than 50 euros (the whole pack costs 60 euros) then I as a veteran would be mad because they're selling my exclusives for cheaper than before.

[OMHOMHOM]

I can buy so many things for 60eur,physical things,food for a week for sure,hygiene products,a nice t-shirt,can probably also pay internet from that and even order something small i wanted from aliexpress for some time,like a new flash drive,maybe.I'm gonna say,even if i earned from 500 to 1k eur,i still wouldn't buy the pack,because spending money on imaginary things is too lulzy for me.But i am very glad we have these very special people who spend their money instead of us.

Edited June 29, 2016 by OMHOMHOM
Changed $ to eur.

[Patroklos28]

Noone disrespected you or any veterans, i am a veteran myself and i can't see your logic at all. These accessories are one of the few transactions that you have to do right away with real money and no plat, which makes it an important income way for DE. 

A lot of effort and calculations go into deciding what should be the price range of this specific item, they didn't just wake up one day and said ok let's make it cost  $130 just so we can piss Cenat or anyone else. 

People right nowadays just seem to be whining about every single thing without even considering simple facts. Nobody forced you to buy this, nobody will. Other people happily buy it with this price and DE has to calculate as a company that cost of opportunity as well. And they offer you a lot of nice armors for plat (guess what, you can get plat by trading for other items :O ) and also with ducats for what Baro brings. If you cannot afford this accessories pack too bad, go get something else. Enough with the pointless whining in the forums please! -_-

[WARLOCKE]

6 hours ago, Zilchy said:

Then you shouldn't include the plat in your valuation, it's worthless to you :) 

Its not worthless, ill spend it at some point, just not right now.

[FLSH_BNG]

You don't get JUST the Targis Prime armor, it comes with a prime warframe and two prime weapons, and a sizeable amount of platinum. So no, it's not too expensive.

 

Considering that the total cost of the bundle is 25% less than the standard cost of the platinum alone, it's a good deal no matter where you are.

Edited June 29, 2016 by FLSH_BNG

[OMHOMHOM]

I think there's a bigger picture.I just can't take someone selling in-game (farmable) items and 1 armor set for 60eur seriously.60 eur-even more than Witcher 3+Expansion Pass and that (incredible AAA) game is well worth every single penny it asks.

[Soulden]

See previous Prime Accessories Packs. You are approaching this the wrong way.

Yes, it is worth the $60. If anything it is a sweet deal. Specially for the over 1 million players (looking at 3rd year anniversary increase on registered accounts) that never got a chance at Mag, Boar and Dakra Prime.

What makes no sense is the fact that they could had added another $60 pack (lol even $45, for cheapos arguments sake), for those who only wanted the Targis Prime cosmetics and included boosters/discounted plat/etc as they previously have with any current/past Prime Accessories.

They had well in advance time to make the changes going by Frost Prime unVaulting feedback.

I don't own any of them, initially was going to buy the current pack, but DE's decision on not providing options was not cool. 

Edit:

Needless to say if the majority of feedback was anything on the "make it a $20 pack cosmetic pack", I can see why DE made their decision. 

DE's offers are pretty cheap on comparison to others (not all), but people asking for cheaper than cheap deal just aimed a bit too high, reached the ceiling and fell back into our faces.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Souldend78

[HAYABU5A]

its just a cosmetic that has no bearing on gameplay, so who cares 

they have to produce income somehow and if whales want to make bad value purchases in order fund new content so be it 

[-CM-Hekovashi]

Reselling several year old stuff for full price and without accessory packs for those who already have all other stuff? Yeeeeeaaaaah....no.

[DrFolamour]

48 minutes ago, Naftal said:

DE aren't the reason why it costs so much in your country.

Also, how is any of this disrespectful for veterans?

If DE sold accessory packages at less than 50 euros (the whole pack costs 60 euros) then I as a veteran would be mad because they're selling my exclusives for cheaper than before.

I'm a veteran and still find it overpriced =0 !

[Megakruemel]

34 minutes ago, OMHOMHOM said:

I think there's a bigger picture.I just can't take someone selling in-game (farmable) items and 1 armor set for 60eur seriously.60 eur-even more than Witcher 3+Expansion Pass and that (incredible AAA) game is well worth every single penny it asks.

Just so you know- you could just get real live merchandise from the same company FOR LESS.

Making it cheaper now would be kinda dumb since people who bought it before paid to much then.

But the reason for that is, THAT IT WAS TO EXPANSIVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. The lunaro-armor looks nearly the same and costs dirt compared to this. I don't care about the extra stuff in the pack. It should be "hey i got plat and armor as extra" but we all know that more than 70% of the people who will buy this pack will buy it for the armor and not for the plat. The plat and boosters in accessories packs are there to raise the value of these packs.

Take it form me. I spend more than those 60 dollars on this game already and I don't need plat. I still have over 2k left. The only reason i would buy this pack is because of the armor. And I won't buy it.

The problem here is, that no one can guarantee that DE will make more money if they split the pack. So yeah. Next time someone tries to defend this strategy they can just use that.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Megakruemel

[Letter13]

5 hours ago, Elyann said:

Since it's not a point of "making everyone happy" let's just assume that DE tries to make the majority feel happy ( cause of ethics , profit , whatever...they are a company that needs money after all...) .
About the 86% of the players who voted in that "boycot" thread ( call it as you want, I honestly didn't see such a boycot as much as mere disappointment from the playerbase) wanted a separate accessories pack ( we are talking about 1200+ voting people ) and let's face it, it's not hard to make one.

86% of players who voted on that boycott thread is hardly the majority of players. Only a tiny, miniscule fraction of the playerbase uses the forums. A significant number of people who use the forums are players who have been playing Warframe for a very long time. 

However, it would not surprise me one bit if the actual majority of players (that is to say, 51%+ of all players of the game) are newer to the game--so much so that they missed out on being able to farm for Mag Prime in the void. This would mean that the majority of players would actually be benefiting from a single pack with everything included; it's easier for DE to release a single pack, and the pack more benefits the actual majority.

 

The fact of the matter is that the number of players who use and participate the forums is actually a significant minority compared to the entire playerbase; the number of registered forum users is already about 1/10th (or less) than registered players in the game, and far, far less than the registered amount (about 1/1000th, if even that) actually participate on the forums. Even if only 1/1000th of all registered players play, that would still mean that the number of players on the forums is 1/10th of the playerbase or less.

This is why whenever players on the forums say "85% of the playerbase wants it!" or "My poll shows the majority of all players want it!" I get a good chuckle out of it. The forums are not a good metric for measuring what the actual majority wants/would benefit from.

[NightmareT12]

1 hour ago, Naftal said:

DE aren't the reason why it costs so much in your country.

Also, how is any of this disrespectful for veterans?

If DE sold accessory packages at less than 50 euros (the whole pack costs 60 euros) then I as a veteran would be mad because they're selling my exclusives for cheaper than before.

I have most accessories and I wouldn't care. I didn't pay 45€ for a single item in the packs I bought ._.

[Elyann]

12 minutes ago, Letter13 said:

86% of players who voted on that boycott thread is hardly the majority of players. Only a tiny, miniscule fraction of the playerbase uses the forums. A significant number of people who use the forums are players who have been playing Warframe for a very long time. 

However, it would not surprise me one bit if the actual majority of players (that is to say, 51%+ of all players of the game) are newer to the game--so much so that they missed out on being able to farm for Mag Prime in the void. This would mean that the majority of players would actually be benefiting from a single pack with everything included; it's easier for DE to release a single pack, and the pack more benefits the actual majority.

 

The fact of the matter is that the number of players who use and participate the forums is actually a significant minority compared to the entire playerbase; the number of registered forum users is already about 1/10th (or less) than registered players in the game, and far, far less than the registered amount (about 1/1000th, if even that) actually participate on the forums. Even if only 1/1000th of all registered players play, that would still mean that the number of players on the forums is 1/10th of the playerbase or less.

This is why whenever players on the forums say "85% of the playerbase wants it!" or "My poll shows the majority of all players want it!" I get a good chuckle out of it. The forums are not a good metric for measuring what the actual majority wants/would benefit from.

Indeed but what about creating more packs as for prime access ? 
Let's say full pack , weapons pack , accessories pack .
That was my point...I don't think there's any problem in "packing" stuff , expecially since they have those files already.....it had to be organized by time ofc and now it would just be a mess to try doing so but it would have been more appreciated by the community Imo.
Still, just my thought...