something for players to think about

[(PSN)robotwars7]

asking people to sympathise with you for being a less skilled player is like asking the internet to be civil; you're only gonna get one answer, and it ain't the one you want to hear.

that said, if you actually NEED things like Bladestorm to remain competitive in a game, then I dunno what to tell you, maybe Warframe isn't for you. truth is that the majority will not consider the opinion of slower-paced/less skilled Tenno and are only out for themselves and maybe their close friends who are on the same skill level as them.

sorry, but if you don't find some miracle way to "git gud", you're gonna get left behind. survival of the fittest and all that.

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

1 hour ago, Magicfingers said:

  to the people who keep saying "nerf this...nerf that...it's to OP", i ask you to keep in mind players like me. not everyone is a killing machine like you and can do things easily in this game. some people need that extra bit of power just to be able and try to be as good as you. i would love to be able to play this game, wrecking everything in sight while i watched tv, listened to the radio, and knitted a sweater all at the same time as you apparently can.

  and before you say "git gud", i've been playing this game since the very early days of closed beta. according to my profile in game i have 2,566 hours playing. according to steam i have 3,411 hours in game, so i'm as "gud" as i'm ever gonna qet. and i'm willing to bet there are many, many more just like me out there trying to play the game. and i'm sure there are many, many more out there like you who can wreck this game while they play it. all i'm asking is, before you start yelling "nerf", stop and think about us...the people who need that extra bit of edge to their stuff.

  and even though you have exceptional skills at playing this game,you max out all your stuff..forma things to infinity and beyond and then because you have those amazing skills and made your stuff so over powered it trivializes the game for you, you start yelling nerf at which point when things get nerfed, i have a feeling you throw more forma on things to make it over powered again, then the yelling "nerf" starts again. take a minute or two to think about what nerfing things does to people like me.

   you can take a rank 5 serration doing 90% damage and probably do better than me with a maxed out serration doing 120% damage. you can take a rank 5 hornet strike doing 120% damage and probably out do me with a maxed rank hornet strike doing 220% damage. you can even take a rank 3 pressure point doing 80% damage...hell...maybe even a rank 2 pressure point doing 60% damage and do much better than me with a maxed out pressure point doing 120% damage.

   what i'm getting at is some people, like me, need that extra power or that extra ability strength, just to try and keep up with you. so please, before you start yelling "nerf", think about the little people. the people that don't have your skill set. instead of nerfing things in the whole game, nerf yourself. don't equip a maxed out mod or whatever when, with your abilities, you could easily get by with things not maxed out and forma'd to death. have pity on your fellow, not as good as you are, tenno.

Except it's usually newer folks calling for nerfs to make the game playable for them/ wanting everything handed to them. Overpowered veterans are usually the ones driving content creation, what they don't realize because of their blinders is that there is still another half of the community, and the content they want can't be done by that half/ is found throughout the star chart and turns the game into hell a la Bursas. So, that content gets watered down so all us other folks can do it, which apparently upsets the vets for some reason. By all means, ignore the people who just want S#&$ handed to them, they can gtfo if they don't even want to play the game, but other things like Bursas needed/ need legitimate nerfs. 

[Airwolfen]

If your hornet strike is still lower rank and that goes for the other strong mods as well then you are far from the limit. Gameplay wise maybe yes, but not gear wise. With a little dedication you could be doing sorties nearly every day skipping the insane ones. ranking rare mods to 8/10 or 9/10 at an alarming rate, not to mention the uncommon and common ones.

But a game needs balance. And that starts at the broken cases and not the unfinished builds.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Senpai-Pie said:

Why wouldn't we tell you to "git gud" when that's literally what your whole problem is?

I'm not going to ignore game balance just because a few people aren't able to survive. It's called progression in games. If you've played that long and have such problems then you either don't strive to get better or are just bad. Why should people who are good handicap themselves for you? It's not their problem, it is your own.

youre funny with your totally fixed view of smth how this game should be like

im just curious where you less people called forumers take your truth out from how warframe should be

things like that arent really a development, this continous screwing on this game called development is the most useless hype this game needs

why give others in the gamingindustry simply 4 big updates a year (also called clear dlc's) on games which are simply made very good for the paying customer, and why they create sequels of their games in a very professional clean way and why are they so successful, continously, what you think what it is ?

why does warframe has this minority of forumfans which are happy every day when there pop up message after message how important updates are done ?

ok, again back to reality, im not a fan of soon(TM of DE) and things will come and as for example lunaro 1-7 and pvp 1-10 and archwing 1-20 and warframe 1-100 update when things can be done simply professional, clean and clear

im really curious how long this monotony of not giving clear dates and updates will still be here, it really creates a bad impression in lot of people which run away, i mean look around, 80 % of the last years forumers are gone (or did they only do a namechange) and harsh clean clear criticisers are banned off because of marketing strategies

hey, just for inbetween, you fans should go real, this kind of way to create and give a game is a waste of lot of lifetime, for nothing ^^)

honestly ... im pleased for a change to a more adult and professional behaving from DE-side, because i and tons of other players and also them which allready runned away are tired of this ^^)

thanks for understanding

Edited June 30, 2016 by Guest

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

48 minutes ago, CommanderSpawn said:

Personally, I hate the word "nerf", I prefer "change" instead. Lets take Ash for example, I don't like playing with Ash on my team or as Ash because he kills eveything too easily. I can just walk around and an Ash kills everything before I get there, and I'm probably not the only one. I think that stuff like Ash need a change rather than a nerf because Ash do what he suppose to do but too passivly.
The Tonkor for example I don't think need any change, it's good as it is.

People asking for nerf because the game sometime don't feel hard as it suppose to be but because of the "scaling" system the enemies are more of a bullet sponge and kill in one hit. DE need to balance the game, not to nerf it or buffing it. Balancing is about nerfing a little there and buffing a little there, this is how to bring change and balance.

You lost me at Tonkor being good as it is, but complaining about Ash's BS. I get the problem with Blade Storm, but Tonkor is not just good. With Firestorm, even missed shots can kill a bunch of dudes. You're just playing with the wrong players if they just spam Blade Storm, or you happen to be in some end game high tier mission were they need to do so just to survive. I play Ash every now and then, and I hardly ever find myself using his ult. Sometimes I do use it, but that's mostly solo in exterminate missions just to speed 'em up a little or if I'm in a room full of Grineer and getting generally lit up. It's the same with all my frames actually, I don't tend to spam my Ult or even use it in a mission at all unless I'm facing overwhelming odds.The only exceptions I can think of to that are my Loki Prime with Irradiating Disarm, Rhino, mostly for CC, Oberon for that dope red health rain and the augment that leaves behind those burning green zones for anyone else to run through, and maybe Mag, I love seeing bodies get violently crushed. I only really find myself using Ember's while reviving or when fighting Phorid/ after when running to extraction from said fight. I hardly use Chroma's because I just don't think it's that good, it's ok at best, and Frost's is a good cc/ crowd clearer. Last and definitely least is Nyx Prime, I've only used Absorb about 6-7 times under actual enemy fire, it's just never gotten to be such a bad scenario for my Nyx to actually use Absorb because all her other powers, before and after the passive, are just too legit. Funny enough, when I first made Nyx, I was really struggling to find a way to play her, but as time went on I found that what makes her special is just causing mayhem on the battlefield, turning everyone on everyone and mowing down the survivors

[Gelkor]

2 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

  to the people who keep saying "nerf this...nerf that...it's to OP", i ask you to keep in mind players like me. not everyone is a killing machine like you and can do things easily in this game. some people need that extra bit of power just to be able and try to be as good as you. i would love to be able to play this game, wrecking everything in sight while i watched tv, listened to the radio, and knitted a sweater all at the same time as you apparently can.

  and before you say "git gud", i've been playing this game since the very early days of closed beta. according to my profile in game i have 2,566 hours playing. according to steam i have 3,411 hours in game, so i'm as "gud" as i'm ever gonna qet. and i'm willing to bet there are many, many more just like me out there trying to play the game. and i'm sure there are many, many more out there like you who can wreck this game while they play it. all i'm asking is, before you start yelling "nerf", stop and think about us...the people who need that extra bit of edge to their stuff.

  and even though you have exceptional skills at playing this game,you max out all your stuff..forma things to infinity and beyond and then because you have those amazing skills and made your stuff so over powered it trivializes the game for you, you start yelling nerf at which point when things get nerfed, i have a feeling you throw more forma on things to make it over powered again, then the yelling "nerf" starts again. take a minute or two to think about what nerfing things does to people like me.

   you can take a rank 5 serration doing 90% damage and probably do better than me with a maxed out serration doing 120% damage. you can take a rank 5 hornet strike doing 120% damage and probably out do me with a maxed rank hornet strike doing 220% damage. you can even take a rank 3 pressure point doing 80% damage...hell...maybe even a rank 2 pressure point doing 60% damage and do much better than me with a maxed out pressure point doing 120% damage.

   what i'm getting at is some people, like me, need that extra power or that extra ability strength, just to try and keep up with you. so please, before you start yelling "nerf", think about the little people. the people that don't have your skill set. instead of nerfing things in the whole game, nerf yourself. don't equip a maxed out mod or whatever when, with your abilities, you could easily get by with things not maxed out and forma'd to death. have pity on your fellow, not as good as you are, tenno.

Much meta. 

So complaint.

Wow.

[F8ted]

This game is incredibly easy. I have a higher success rate here than on Candy Crush. I'm sure the same goes for any here who have had the opportunity to play both. Nobody likes it when their class/champion/hero/warframe gets a balance pass, even if it does absolutely nothing statistically to their success. How often do you actually fail a mission though? Is it so difficult that you cannot find in your plethora of options one that suit your needs? 

This game needs to get much, MUCH, harder. There are always easy options. The upper-bound and average difficulty of this game is no where near "competitive". If you cannot handle the difficulty at this point, with 3k plus hours, I do not know what to say. Only game I have played that much was World of Warcraft back in the day, and you had better believe I did endgame raiding with multiple classes. 

Tired of playing solo? Recruiting for 30 seconds "H xxxx". Most of the time you will end up with people who refuse to let you get 10% of the damage. You could equip anything, unmodded, into any mission and win. You want this.... Easier?

[Rakosta_Kai]

Crazy as it sounds, I see both sides of this argument as having valid points.

Until the mix gets corrected we are going to see these issues again and again.

Hopefully, a difficulty slider will help ease the angst regarding nerfs. Group Missions are competitive, not co-op, and players are incentivized to display the behaviors that people call for nerfs regarding.

For my part, I'll continue doing most of my missions solo because they are more fun that way for me.  

 

[Magicfingers]

41 minutes ago, Airwolfen said:

If your hornet strike is still lower rank and that goes for the other strong mods as well then you are far from the limit. Gameplay wise maybe yes, but not gear wise. With a little dedication you could be doing sorties nearly every day skipping the insane ones. ranking rare mods to 8/10 or 9/10 at an alarming rate, not to mention the uncommon and common ones.

But a game needs balance. And that starts at the broken cases and not the unfinished builds.

i have most everything (except primes of which i have just a few) in the game, all level 30 and with a potato on them.  all the mods i have are maxed out except for a couple of the prime mods that i got from baro. there are a few mods that people say you should have, but for whatever reason, this game refuses to drop them for me and i won't buy them. what i don't have are the reflexes or the eagle eyes it seems a lot of the players have. my reactions aren't as quick which means i'm slower to react and my eyesight is not as good which means sometimes i do miss seeing things sometimes. i'm sure there are a lot of others like me. the thing i don't get is why players think that just because they can do it, everyone can do it. i can play guitar (not shred, but still play) so going by the way they think, everyone can play guitar.

[Vilmera]

2 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

  you can take a rank 5 serration doing 90% damage and probably do better than me with a maxed out serration doing 120% damage.

yeah, mr. closed beta tester, but maxed serration is 165% :D

 

[Magicfingers]

2 minutes ago, Vilmera said:

yeah, mr. closed beta tester, but maxed serration is 165% :D

 

you're right...sorry...i was looking at the wrong thing when i wrote that. thanks for pointing it out.

[WARLOCKE]

3 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

  to the people who keep saying "nerf this...nerf that...it's to OP", i ask you to keep in mind players like me. not everyone is a killing machine like you and can do things easily in this game. some people need that extra bit of power just to be able and try to be as good as you. i would love to be able to play this game, wrecking everything in sight while i watched tv, listened to the radio, and knitted a sweater all at the same time as you apparently can.

  and before you say "git gud", i've been playing this game since the very early days of closed beta. according to my profile in game i have 2,566 hours playing. according to steam i have 3,411 hours in game, so i'm as "gud" as i'm ever gonna qet. and i'm willing to bet there are many, many more just like me out there trying to play the game. and i'm sure there are many, many more out there like you who can wreck this game while they play it. all i'm asking is, before you start yelling "nerf", stop and think about us...the people who need that extra bit of edge to their stuff.

  and even though you have exceptional skills at playing this game,you max out all your stuff..forma things to infinity and beyond and then because you have those amazing skills and made your stuff so over powered it trivializes the game for you, you start yelling nerf at which point when things get nerfed, i have a feeling you throw more forma on things to make it over powered again, then the yelling "nerf" starts again. take a minute or two to think about what nerfing things does to people like me.

   you can take a rank 5 serration doing 90% damage and probably do better than me with a maxed out serration doing 120% damage. you can take a rank 5 hornet strike doing 120% damage and probably out do me with a maxed rank hornet strike doing 220% damage. you can even take a rank 3 pressure point doing 80% damage...hell...maybe even a rank 2 pressure point doing 60% damage and do much better than me with a maxed out pressure point doing 120% damage.

   what i'm getting at is some people, like me, need that extra power or that extra ability strength, just to try and keep up with you. so please, before you start yelling "nerf", think about the little people. the people that don't have your skill set. instead of nerfing things in the whole game, nerf yourself. don't equip a maxed out mod or whatever when, with your abilities, you could easily get by with things not maxed out and forma'd to death. have pity on your fellow, not as good as you are, tenno.

Go play on mercury if you cant handle phobos. Your own personal level of skill is a non-factor in game balance. Whats broken will be fixed. Best learn to adapt now or plan on having a bad time.

 

[-Apple-Pie-]

Take ALL the Power from me! If you run to the boss, and don't see him, because i kill him faster, doesn't mean that if DE nerfs everything, that i will not be able to do it the same way, cause if my gear is nerfed = your gear is nerfed too!(so im still faster lol). Warframe requires skill for being OP, if you cant be OP, then don't do high level missions, be OP in the kindergarten.

[Tomppak]

6 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

-snip-

I want to agree with you, and I want to say I'm sorry for all the people who seem to respond to your post in a rather hostile manner -

But, I think there's one, clear, big problem in your post, and it's the total lack of definition. If I would ask for a nerf, I would ask it for something that's clearly broken in a mechanical way - I like Mirage being able to lock down whole T4 interception by spamming a button. Indeed, that's more like an exploit, rather than "just a very good power being used like it was ment to". However, from your post, I can't deduce what kind of nerfs, or what specific nerfs, you oppose? Also, you say you can't keep up with the rest of us - In what way, exactly? Are you having trouble surviving lvl 10-20 missions? T3 missions? T4 mission? Endless missions after 40 rounds/minutes? After 60? Is there some tactic or piece of equipment you use in those missions that people constantly call a nerf for?

Is there a recent nerf that hindered your usual gameplay in a significant way?

[WARLOCKE]

1 hour ago, mobilehacker said:

Take ALL the Power from me! If you run to the boss, and don't see him, because i kill him faster, doesn't mean that if DE nerfs everything, that i will not be able to do it the same way, cause if my gear is nerfed = your gear is nerfed too!(so im still faster lol). Warframe requires skill for being OP, if you cant be OP, then don't do high level missions, be OP in the kindergarten.

It takes a amazing amount of skill to shoot a rocket at your feet and press 4. Or to hit 4 and lockdown whole maps. I mean thats some MLG stuff right there. 

[WARLOCKE]

10 minutes ago, Tomppak said:

I want to agree with you, and I want to say I'm sorry for all the people who seem to respond to your post in a rather hostile manner -

But, I think there's one, clear, big problem in your post, and it's the total lack of definition. If I would ask for a nerf, I would ask it for something that's clearly broken in a mechanical way - I like Mirage being able to lock down whole T4 interception by spamming a button. Indeed, that's more like an exploit, rather than "just a very good power being used like it was ment to". However, from your post, I can't deduce what kind of nerfs, or what specific nerfs, you oppose? Also, you say you can't keep up with the rest of us - In what way, exactly? Are you having trouble surviving lvl 10-20 missions? T3 missions? T4 mission? Endless missions after 40 rounds/minutes? After 60? Is there some tactic or piece of equipment you use in those missions that people constantly call a nerf for?

Is there a recent nerf that hindered your usual gameplay in a significant way?

The reason he is seeing a less than fuzzy response is that the whole nerf situation has been gone over ad nauseam in recent months and people are getting tired of saying the same thing over and over to educate other players on the matter. At this point im down to the very basics. Which is go play a easier level if you cant handle higher content. No shame in that. Just gets annoying dealing with the entitlement is all. But point taken. I suppose we as players should always be giving a modicum of civility to each other. 

[Sirfol]

7 hours ago, Magicfingers said:

  to the people who keep saying "nerf this...nerf that...it's to OP", i ask you to keep in mind players like me. not everyone is a killing machine like you and can do things easily in this game. some people need that extra bit of power just to be able and try to be as good as you. i would love to be able to play this game, wrecking everything in sight while i watched tv, listened to the radio, and knitted a sweater all at the same time as you apparently can.

  and before you say "git gud", i've been playing this game since the very early days of closed beta. according to my profile in game i have 2,566 hours playing. according to steam i have 3,411 hours in game, so i'm as "gud" as i'm ever gonna qet. and i'm willing to bet there are many, many more just like me out there trying to play the game. and i'm sure there are many, many more out there like you who can wreck this game while they play it. all i'm asking is, before you start yelling "nerf", stop and think about us...the people who need that extra bit of edge to their stuff.

  and even though you have exceptional skills at playing this game,you max out all your stuff..forma things to infinity and beyond and then because you have those amazing skills and made your stuff so over powered it trivializes the game for you, you start yelling nerf at which point when things get nerfed, i have a feeling you throw more forma on things to make it over powered again, then the yelling "nerf" starts again. take a minute or two to think about what nerfing things does to people like me.

   you can take a rank 5 serration doing 90% damage and probably do better than me with a maxed out serration doing 120% damage. you can take a rank 5 hornet strike doing 120% damage and probably out do me with a maxed rank hornet strike doing 220% damage. you can even take a rank 3 pressure point doing 80% damage...hell...maybe even a rank 2 pressure point doing 60% damage and do much better than me with a maxed out pressure point doing 120% damage.

   what i'm getting at is some people, like me, need that extra power or that extra ability strength, just to try and keep up with you. so please, before you start yelling "nerf", think about the little people. the people that don't have your skill set. instead of nerfing things in the whole game, nerf yourself. don't equip a maxed out mod or whatever when, with your abilities, you could easily get by with things not maxed out and forma'd to death. have pity on your fellow, not as good as you are, tenno.

I read all the posts in this discussion, i think u are too focused on the movement aspect of the game, u said in one of ur post u have almost everything,but my question is: have u looked strategically at ur loadout?. let me give u some examples:

u said not everyone have eagleye or can see everything, granted. solution? animal istinct and enemy sense, they highlight enemys in the minimap for u, not a good aim? use a granade launcher (aim up) like secura penta.

ur can't move like the others? there are frame like nova that can pratically teleport where u want, with the 2nd ability with the augment u can make a orb shield big enough to absorb a nuke, and u can move it too.

u can't fly trough the room dodging projectiles? volt is here for u, he can make shields (and the excuse of bombard is BS, u only need to take 3 steps back) that cover for u, now he can carry it too.

u can't hit anything? well there is a solution for that, buzzlock or quanta.

You are right this game sometimes is unforgiving and it shows us our lack of reflexes or power, but this is why builds and modes are important, we tend to forget that mod doesn't mean only power but also utility, when the streght is out of ur reach u need to think with strategy, when strategy is out of ur reach then u need a team. Don't forget u are not alone in this game, maybe u will encouter someone rude or someone who do the job for u or maybe someone that need to be carried, in every istance u have someone that can help u where ur arms fall shorts.

For the Balance discussion (nerf is not the right word) i think u need to think that some people need challenge BECAUSE they are too good, ur right ur not the best, but it doesn't mean ur the only one suffering, u can have fun in a level 50 map because for u its' balanced but for me is like a sneeze, those balance action DE took wasn't because u didn't have enough fun, but for some of us that think level 1-200 is boring with a valkyr that can go kill everything until 500 or a trinity that can heal u on the other side of the map, so think like this, for u now is harder, for me is fun, if u need call me, i try to make ur mission fun too.

[-Apple-Pie-]

1 hour ago, WARLOCKE said:

It takes a amazing amount of skill to shoot a rocket at your feet and press 4. Or to hit 4 and lockdown whole maps. I mean thats some MLG stuff right there. 

Hahaha, i never use Tonkor, my favorite guns is Rakta Cernos, Akstiletto Prime and War.

[Shozanakh]

DE nerfing Mirage blind to remove map lockdowns. Nice! Then they add new Banshee mod, which generally disable and kill all enemies in crazy radius. The right hand does not know what the left is doing?

From my point of view, abilities can be very strong, but must require the active participation of the player, like new Saryn, for example.

Edited June 30, 2016 by Shozanakh

[Tizodd]

I kinda-sorta understand your argument OP, but it doesn't change the fact that some abilities are just overpowered regardless of skill level or mods.  Bladestorm comes to mind and so does Equinox's Maim.  Even if you have low power strength and crappy melee mods, Bladestorm will still do decent damage up to a certain level and it also still turns enemies red making them invincible until Ash's little minions are done (very annoying for group members).  For Equinox, you don't even need power strength to clear a room as long as you've been killing enemies in Maim's radius...even with negative power strength Equinox can clear rooms if enough kills have been stored.

Tonkor is another culprit although to a lower extent because you do need decent mods for it.  But for it to have high base damage, a large blast radius, negligible self-damage, 35% crit chance, AND 2.5x crit damage...it just wasn't thought out well.  Unless DE meant to make an op mass murdering weapon.  In that case they achieved their goal.

TL : DR - I understand where the OP is coming from but I disagree.  Some abilities/weapons just weren't thought out well and need to be toned down.

[Tizodd]

9 hours ago, Senpai-Pie said:

Or you just don't strive to be better and do what's easier. Complain.

The only thing stopping you from getting better is yourself. If you don't try to push your limits then why should everyone else who do push themselves suffer because of that?

Unless you know a person's personal circumstances, this is a pretty ignorant statement to make.

[FrostedMike]

8 hours ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

You lost me at Tonkor being good as it is, but complaining about Ash's BS. I get the problem with Blade Storm, but Tonkor is not just good. With Firestorm, even missed shots can kill a bunch of dudes. You're just playing with the wrong players if they just spam Blade Storm, or you happen to be in some end game high tier mission were they need to do so just to survive. I play Ash every now and then, and I hardly ever find myself using his ult. Sometimes I do use it, but that's mostly solo in exterminate missions just to speed 'em up a little or if I'm in a room full of Grineer and getting generally lit up. It's the same with all my frames actually, I don't tend to spam my Ult or even use it in a mission at all unless I'm facing overwhelming odds.The only exceptions I can think of to that are my Loki Prime with Irradiating Disarm, Rhino, mostly for CC, Oberon for that dope red health rain and the augment that leaves behind those burning green zones for anyone else to run through, and maybe Mag, I love seeing bodies get violently crushed. I only really find myself using Ember's while reviving or when fighting Phorid/ after when running to extraction from said fight. I hardly use Chroma's because I just don't think it's that good, it's ok at best, and Frost's is a good cc/ crowd clearer. Last and definitely least is Nyx Prime, I've only used Absorb about 6-7 times under actual enemy fire, it's just never gotten to be such a bad scenario for my Nyx to actually use Absorb because all her other powers, before and after the passive, are just too legit. Funny enough, when I first made Nyx, I was really struggling to find a way to play her, but as time went on I found that what makes her special is just causing mayhem on the battlefield, turning everyone on everyone and mowing down the survivors

The Tonkor is a granade luancher, it suppose to do a lot of damage. Ash's Bladestorm is just not active enough. This is what I ment to say. And I'm playing on public matchmaking so it's not my fault that people take Ash.

Frames need changes so you will have a resone to use all 4 abilities and not only the ult. Nerfs are not the best way to do it, sometimes it works and sometimes don't.

[BlackCoMerc]

10 hours ago, Evanescent said:

This argument again?

So you should be able to press one button and wipe maps while I do what-suck my thumbs? Just like you want to have fun, I do too. I can't do that with you clearing rooms before I get there. The argument is like I should eat the cake slower so you can have some cake too, (which is fine by me) but you end up swallowing the cake in one bite.

The issue is that something is too powerful. Powerful stuff is fun, too powerful stuff ruins it. That's why DE is talking a look at bringing things to  a manageable level.

I agree. I do. While I know some tweaks are needed so we cannot trvialize everything, we still need to retain powers.

Unfortunately the git gud crowd cannot be reasoned with. They claim to want balance but they don't. They want the game their way. And they are vocal enough to get it.

At which point, they will sit back and wonder at the slower pace of updates, followed by the games being shut down due to a lack of a player base.

All the while wondering what happened , utterly oblivious to their role in the matter.

These people deserve to be challenged. We do need harder missions. With Rathuum caliber AI and limited power use. 

But we don't need every mission to be that way. 

Warframe is an ARPG, not a tactical shooter. More people need to understand that. And the devs themselves need to chime in on this issue and establish clear expectations for where their game is headed.

[Berserkerkitten]

I remember the first time I played a Tower IV mission ages ago, when void keys were still new and it was one of the most difficult things I ever had to do on Warframe. Enemies would hit me pretty much the same moment they could see me, they'd deal insane amounts of damage and I had to run and dodge and shoot stuff before it killed me and things were actually pretty challenging.

Today I have difficulty staying awake in some missions before the 40th wave or 40 minutes on the survival timer, when things finally start picking up a little bit. And it's still far from challenging at this point. Today we get focus abilities for invisibility, insta-kill mods for daggers, warframe abilities that hit for millions of damage, hilariously deadly melee red crits and some insanely powerful primed mods. 

I can appreciate that newer players don't have all of those things yet. I can understand that some folks simply lack hand-eye-coordination and that today's games have to be playable by people with the reaction and cognitive abilities of three year olds (present forumers excepted) to appeal to as broad an audience as somehow possible. But Warframe isn't a difficult game. It's easier than it ever has been. And when some builds and certain playstyles make it possible to solo a mission on the highest possible difficulty for over seven hours or when whole rooms full of enemies die the second they spawn to a single player's ability in what's supposed to be a cooperative game, then yes, sometimes you simply have to take out the nerf bat.

The only way to get some semblance of challenge right now is by deliberately gimping oneself or playing some of the tougher sorties, only to receive 25 fusion cores or a part of some weapon that already exists in your inventory three times. Or sit through an hour of t4 survival until stuff finally gets strong enough to kill you. Again, I'm aware things are different to newer, more inexperienced players, but the game simply isn't hard. I drag new friends into this game all the time, my 60 year old mother in law plays Warframe, it's simply not a tough game. It just isn't.

[Tizodd]

5 minutes ago, CommanderSpawn said:

The Tonkor is a granade luancher, it suppose to do a lot of damage...

Sorry but Tonkor is very op when compared to just about every weapon in the game:

• high base damage
• virtually no self damage
• large blast radius
• 35% crit chance!
• 2.5x crit multiplier

Not a balanced weapon in any sense of the word.