Really DE? we are talking about how we hate nullifiers and you just... BUFF THEM? REALLY?

[Azrael]

10 minutes ago, (PS4)erzengel1985 said:

De has done a awesome job with warframe nothing but respect for how much work they put into it.

 

10 minutes ago, (PS4)erzengel1985 said:

Lol I see you all are still crying about the update good to know there are whiners out there instead of players.

Respect for DE is good. I have that too. But I also have respect for other players. Perhaps you should work on that?

While you're at it, try reading some of our actual arguments rather than just repeating the same tired old nonsense about how we just "don't like things getting harder". As much fun as it is when people have no idea what the conversation is about, you could probably be more constructive if you at least skimmed a few posts.

[(PSN)erzengel1985]

40 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

 

Respect for DE is good. I have that too. But I also have respect for other players. Perhaps you should work on that?

While you're at it, try reading some of our actual arguments rather than just repeating the same tired old nonsense about how we just "don't like things getting harder". As much fun as it is when people have no idea what the conversation is about, you could probably be more constructive if you at least skimmed a few posts.

Lol in how many posts are there the same old complaints I got respect for other players when they don't cry all the time like the game is how it is deal with it. I am sure de will work on the issue but complaining constantly isn't going to get it done any faster not will it get you guys anywhere. I understand people's arguments but with the same complaining it is kinda dumb. And doesn't help de when most are bashing them with their decision to make the game tougher for the spammers. How hard is it to melee te nullifiers think about it. 

[Demon.King]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)erzengel1985 said:

Lol in how many posts are there the same old complaints I got respect for other players when they don't cry all the time like the game is how it is deal with it. I am sure de will work on the issue but complaining constantly isn't going to get it done any faster not will it get you guys anywhere. I understand people's arguments but with the same complaining it is kinda dumb. And doesn't help de when most are bashing them with their decision to make the game tougher for the spammers. How hard is it to melee te nullifiers think about it. 

Your last sentence. Not sure if to laugh or cry. Do I need to quote some 1000+ posts countering that line or will you finally bother to read something and stop wasting time...

People have complained about nullifiers and suggested how they could be done alternatively for years. DE ignored them and kept buffing them instead. The rage at this point is understandable...now I'll wait for another reply, hopefully with more sense in it this time. In the meantime, I'll go play with my meta setup because only that is viable...

 

And I'll quote myself on another point which is really sad.

On 20/06/2016 at 11:49 AM, Demon.King said:

Which leads to the core issue of all the arguments here. Half the people participating have no knowledge on ??? yet keep arguing about it...and this seems to be getting an increasingly self destructing trend in the community...

 

Edited July 11, 2016 by Demon.King

[Vastarov]

2 hours ago, MacabreHaze said:

Or well, you could just [...]
And now for the weather. 

That was actually pretty fun to read. I love trashy sarcasm :3
No! Trashy sarcasm with epic plot!
 

2 hours ago, Darkwave1098 said:

 

The irony of that statement does not cease to amuse me.

[...]

People without any active involvement in the community of a game do not count towards statistics when making community based decisions.

[...]

Not ironic at all.
If you'd bother checking, I just copied your own sentence used against me and replaced your curse-words and insults with proper vocabulary.
So the joke's on you, I guess... but you won't be able to understand it, I'm afraid.

Also, concerning statistics, from now on, for my own conception of the community as a whole, you are now irrelevant. I won't answer you anymore, it's not worth it.
 

2 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Oh, okay. I misunderstood. My mistake. I won't be able to edit the post, though, since my tablet is really wonky about editing posts for some reason. My main point wasn't about correcting you, anyway, so the post is still mostly valid, but I'd remove that line if it would let me. Sorry.

Nah, wasn't asking you to change the comment, I just wanted to clarify my views since I think you're okay.

(I wanted to quote a couple others but I lost track of 'em :/ )

Anyways, if they were to change the dynamics of sniper rifles and shotguns on bubbles, would it be enough to consider (not universally but - meh) the Nullifiers re-balanced?
Or is the Will of the Community^TM to directly and quite simply get rid of them?
'Cause really, I'm no gaming-genius, but except for reeeeeally high level content, I never even actually prepare for a specific type of enemy - or for a mission; I just make sure to take with me at least one weapon (often times in the middle of the leveling process) modded with the correct elemental combo,
You can fight any enemy with any setup until level 60-70 anyways... as long as you put a reactor/catalyst, maybe a couple formas - but hey, that's the main thing of the game: making space on your stuff in order to mod things right - no min/maxing, just a little push in the right direction is all that you need.

[Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Vastarov said:

Anyways, if they were to change the dynamics of sniper rifles and shotguns on bubbles, would it be enough to consider (not universally but - meh) the Nullifiers re-balanced?

Actually, if they just reversed this latest change, and let me go back to killing them with my magnetize bubbles, I'd be happy. That, and make snowglobe not pop instantly either. I never actually had any trouble with them, it wasn't until this last buff that I said "enough is enough" and really took to the forums. I mean, c'mon, a nully bubble can clip through a wall and destroy a snowglobe without you ever having any chance to stop it. Solo mag in the void was enormous fun, and not really OP, since surviving required quick, tactical use of magnetize to block enemy fire. It was *really* easy to die that way, and now it's much easier. Only now I'm basically limited to throwing the glaive from inside a magnetize bubble since leaving the safety of my cover is death at high levels.

[FrostDragoon]

11 hours ago, Lord_Azrael said:

Actually, if they just reversed this latest change, and let me go back to killing them with my magnetize bubbles, I'd be happy. That, and make snowglobe not pop instantly either. I never actually had any trouble with them, it wasn't until this last buff that I said "enough is enough" and really took to the forums. I mean, c'mon, a nully bubble can clip through a wall and destroy a snowglobe without you ever having any chance to stop it. Solo mag in the void was enormous fun, and not really OP, since surviving required quick, tactical use of magnetize to block enemy fire. It was *really* easy to die that way, and now it's much easier. Only now I'm basically limited to throwing the glaive from inside a magnetize bubble since leaving the safety of my cover is death at high levels.

This is why having nullifiers destroy persistent ability effects is a bad direction. Everything else about them (except the sniper/shotgun issue) was very tolerable and felt more or less fair.

[YourCuteSister]

Shall i say "nulls are good" to be typical forum warrior and DE's boyo?

[FrostDragoon]

Isn't having buffs/debuffs and non-persistent effects not work inside the bubbles enough? Why do they have to do more than that?

[TheLexiConArtist]

10 minutes ago, FrostDragoon said:

Isn't having buffs/debuffs and non-persistent effects not work inside the bubbles enough? Why do they have to do more than that?

Exactly this. Before this change, a Nullifier walking over and intersecting his dome of nope with an Ivara Cloak Arrow simply meant that anyone in the cloakbubble radius but also under the Nullifier bubble was visible. Moving around inside the cloak area, shrinking the Nullibubble or killing the Nullifier, and normal operation simply resumed.

 

THAT is the model that ALL powers should work on when in contact with Nullification.

 

Now, the entire cloak area is dispelled thanks to two pixels of overlapping. Because sure, that seems legit.

Edited July 12, 2016 by EDYinnit

[Volkovyi]

Nullifiers have always been annoying, they have unique laws and rules that disregard anything we're supposed to abide by.

The "get good" mentality is harmful in discussion about design. Just because we can deal with a problem in different ways, doesn't mean that problem shouldn't be addressed or isn't a major design flaw. It's like if you have two bathrooms in your home, and one of them gets clogged - will you unclog the first bathroom and fix the problem or just continue to use the second bathroom and avoid the problem?

Nullifiers are a cheap design in concept, they just have a "catch all" 100% disregard to all Warframe abilities. No Warframe ability has a catch-all effect like this. Nullifier bubbles are indestructible, shooting them from afar they have a FIXED damage rate and shrinking rate, meaning no matter what kind of damage you inflict or at what speed the bubble will decrease at a fixed rate. Then there is the stacking effect, where groups of Nullifiers in higher leveled missions overlap with one another, and overlap their allies. They protect them perfectly, and as you are trying to shoot down a bubble because perhaps several Bombards and Gunners are pelting you mercilessly, the overlapping bubbles continue to re-grow or generally resist going down quick enough.

The Corpus in general have too many ability/statistic disrupting effects, from Nullifiers to Combas, Shield Sapping Ospreys, Leeching Ospreys, its not a matter of it being a challenge or not it simply is. not. fun.

Why not consider removing the Nullifiers entirely and replace them with Corpus Combas/Scrambus? The Comba/Scrambus is a much better and more elegantly designed unit with the same concept in mind. They don't have annoying bubbles, they nullify certain abilities but not all of them, and are quick and agile to make up for the fact they have no giant bubble for perfect protection. As far as design goes, it is insane to have two of the same enemy concept, the Comba and Nullifiers.

[DarcnyssWolfe]

I realized a while back my view on nullies is skewed but... Nullies have a fairly hard-counter in two frames, Valk and Inaros, due to their innate survivability. I mentioned my view was skewed and that is due to mainlining Valk...since her release. Nullies are and have no counter to the two frames when built or survival rather than power abuse simply because you can walk right up to them, face tank their Lanka before smaking it aside and unleashing point blank hell on them. Nullies only counter those who use/rely/abuse powers. Those who don't (albeit very few, really need more hp/armor tanks, or maybe an Shield Inaros, that be cool), nullies are nothing more than fodder like the rest. I honestly wish they were a bit more unique than a corpus sniper in a bubble...

[ograzzt]

What is especially hilarious - on some maps (jupiter defense tileset for example) nullies can spawn under the cryopod and instantly dispel our globe. And you can't do anything about this. It's not just bad design, it's complete ignorance about how their own game works. 

Edited July 12, 2016 by ograzzt

[AndIWin]

The thing i hate about nullifiers is when they appear with an ice globe (eximus) followed with a bubble then i have to fire alot to destroy that double shield

 

[(PSN)Void_Girl]

The problem is not often one nullifier. It is two nullifiers, ancient healers, and bombards huddled together... making it nearly impossible for non-tank frames to either spam down the shields or enter the group to pick off the nullifiers and jump out.

Take away the damage cap on the shield. Or at least allow us to diversify our builds (since that's what you're aiming for, right?) by using punch-through mods. IMO the issue is being addressed as if we only encounter a single, lone nullifier at a time.

Edited July 12, 2016 by (PS4)Void_Girl

[Azrael]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)Void_Girl said:

IMO the issue is being addressed as if we only encounter a single, lone nullifier at a time.

It often is addressed this way, I don't think it's just your opinion. People recite strategies like "just slide into the bubble" as if we were facing a single nully all by himself in the middle of an empty room. The main problem, though, is that people usually think we're using a tanky frame, or are in a squad that has one. Not much thought for those of us who enjoy soloing with squishy casters...

[Serturtle]

Its not that nullifiers make things difficult, it's that they make them boring. 

Its easy to bring a nully popper, the annoying thing about nully poppers is that its only a certain bullet fountain type weapon, and I can't use any other kind of weapon that I would like to use in any void mission. So I've got literally one weapon choice. AND can't use abilities. So nullifiers effectively remove 90% of the games content and force me to play as a COD machine gunner. 

So to recap, NOT difficult, BORING.

[Multicom-EN-]

I can't believe DE hasn't shed any light on this yet. With the countless forum posts about it over the last year or more, nothing has changed. 

 

NOTHING!

[MobyTheDuck]

At this point I'm surprised that nullfiers still dont reflect bullets and have an invincible shield, only been able to be killed if you jump inside the bubble.

What about they add Tech Nullfiers? I can clearly see people around here that think that nullfiers are not broken and easy to counter with every single loadout.

No, scratch that. Bursa Nullfiers with Comba auras! They drop Shield Sapper Ospreys with Supra Turrets! The only way to kill them is to stop being such a white knight and try to understand why nullfiers are a broken enemy.

If skill spam is such a massive problem to the 'pros', why there are no Grineer, Infested or Sentient nullfiers in the game yet?

[MobyTheDuck]

At this point I'm surprised that nullfiers still dont reflect bullets and have an invincible shield, only been able to be killed if you jump inside the bubble.

What about they add Tech Nullfiers? I can clearly see people around here that think that nullfiers are not broken and easy to counter with every single loadout.

No, scratch that. Bursa Nullfiers with Comba auras! They drop Shield Sapper Ospreys with Supra Turrets! The only way to kill them is to stop being such a white knight and try to understand why nullfiers are a broken enemy.

If skill spam is such a massive problem to the 'pros', why there are no Grineer, Infested or Sentient nullfiers in the game yet?

[Multicom-EN-]

Tiny bump.

[-Sandman]

18 hours ago, MobyTheDuck said:

If skill spam is such a massive problem to the 'pros', why there are no Grineer, Infested or Sentient nullfiers in the game yet?

Yeah why not jus take an un-potatoed Mk1-Braton and Mk1-Bo to a top tier mission if people are such a pros. That's what I do and it's sure beats the bore of the cheese.

[Azrael]

31 minutes ago, -Sandman said:

Yeah why not jus take an un-potatoed Mk1-Braton and Mk1-Bo to a top tier mission if people are such a pros. That's what I do and it's sure beats the bore of the cheese.

That's what I do, except my mk-1 braton has a potato and 6 forma on it...  :)

[-Sandman]

18 minutes ago, Lord_Azrael said:

That's what I do, except my mk-1 braton has a potato and 6 forma on it...  :)

6 forma? What a nub! :P

[BlackCoMerc]

21 hours ago, Serturtle said:

Its not that nullifiers make things difficult, it's that they make them boring. 

Its easy to bring a nully popper, the annoying thing about nully poppers is that its only a certain bullet fountain type weapon, and I can't use any other kind of weapon that I would like to use in any void mission. So I've got literally one weapon choice. AND can't use abilities. So nullifiers effectively remove 90% of the games content and force me to play as a COD machine gunner. 

So to recap, NOT difficult, BORING.

I wish the folks arguing in favor of Nullifiers would concede this point. 

Those of us opposed talk about how they limit play styles, frames  and weapons. How Corpus missions are turning into generic sci Fi shooter fare.

Meanwhile,  those in favor respond with, "they're not that hard."

Well no. They aren't.

But then, we never said they were. 

Hard ain't the issue. Boring is.

[Tizodd]

On 7/12/2016 at 7:27 AM, Volkovyi said:

The Corpus in general have too many ability/statistic disrupting effects, from Nullifiers to Combas, Shield Sapping Ospreys, Leeching Ospreys, its not a matter of it being a challenge or not it simply is. not. fun.

This^ 100%