My thoughts on what this update showcased about DE

[MercuryDoll]

Inbefore locked for "dev-bashing", but you guys showcase this time and time again. You make stuff on a whim and don't take the time to take a step back and look at the big picture. To elaborate, i'll be dissecting each feature of the Specters of the Rails update and point you to where it went wrong.

The starmap rework:

An echo of the good old CB times, refined to make it actually look like a map. Aesthetically okay at first but suffers from a truckload of problems. It manages to look busy as a postoffice, yet doesn't show anything relevant. The nodes are tiny but still clashed together, you have to hover over them (which sometimes doesn't work or the spot is off) to see what their game mode is etc, their connections are at times very odd. Especially the connections from one planet to another looks hella confusing, as there is no indicator in zoomed out mode either. Progressing through the planets was completely reworked without notifying the players beforehand and, with the addition of junctions, added hardstops for new players. For example Earth, the new starting planet apparently. One of the requirements is to kill 3 eximus units, which only spawns past 20 minutes in a survival( or 20 rounds in a defense), a new player won't be even close to being geared and/or skilled to pull that off. Another junction requires nanospores, which can't be gathered before he cleared the junction unless taxi'd, creating a "key behind the locked door" situation. Apart from that it lacks a lot more QoL features and technical polishing, like instantly starting the mission (where did the "Accept" feature go we had previously?) because we clicked a node that was behind another UI element. Another important feature missing is choosing which mode you want to play if it so happens that there's an Alert Mission or Syndicate Mission happening on the node.

Archwing:

Again, it was made to be barely functional and then pushed as live update. Lack of manual rolling, awkward camera positions and FoV. The floatiness/driftiness could have been a nice touch if Corpus tilesets didn't require precise maneuvering so much, it's headbang city right now. There's also still a significant lack content for archwing, making the rankup process more of a necessary sidequest rather than an integral part of the game.

Void and Relics

For a system that was supposed to reduce the grind, it managed to do nothing at all. We still need to grind keys Relics, the dropchances are barely different from what we had previously, upgrading isn't nearly as powerful as players hoped it would be. It is just another layer of grind to slightly increase the dropchances. The old problem of keysharing/scamming still isn't fixed because we can't see if and what Relic the other players are carrying. It made the hunt for Prime gear more accessible to new players, but it didn't manage to improve on the problems that players wanted adressed. Another thing that's bothering is that you can't play a mission with a fissure without picking one of your Relics, should you have one in your inventory. Again we're facing forced gameplay. The Void is now pretty much irrelevant outside of farming Argon as well, which is kinda sad because from the "lore" it should have been a pretty important place.

Kavats

This is a really odd one. The Incubator Segment's blueprint needed to start breeding them is both a Dojo Research (which needs a considerable amount of ressources and time) but can also drop from Hyekka Masters. What a lot of people will agree is infuriating though is the Genetic Codes needed to both build the Incubator Segment and breed one of the spacecats themselves. Quite bluntly, it's a worse grind than Kubrow Eggs were (and still are). I believe Rebecca and Megan can attest to that, having tried it on the Prime Time livestream with little to no success. It's mental suicide to farm for them and not just spending platinum in the market place.

 

The conclusion i draw is that DE did not take the time to plan any of the features, they didn't draw out the new starmap layout to ensure it was both userfriendly, nor did they check for any deadstops a new player might encounter. They didn't take a look from a step back to check if what they did was actually playable and not a bare minimum function techdemo. They release things as soon as the code compiled. All this indicates to a lack of proper design documenting and implementing things as they go like an amateur "ideaguy" making a GameMaker game for the first time. Either that, or whoever is pressing them to release clearly unfinished work is trying to milk the game and shove it off the cliff as soon as it gets dry.

[Awazx]

They are solving. Soon^TM.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Awazx

[AurumandArgentum]

Rushed due to tennocon, which they shouldn't have done.

Also China.

[AurumandArgentum]

Just now, Awazx said:

They are solving. Soon^TM.

Fixed it for ya.

[Kai_Shiba]

Just now, AurumandArgentum said:

Also China.

[Awazx]

1 minute ago, AurumandArgentum said:

Fixed it for ya.

;)

[Stormdragon]

4 minutes ago, MercuryDoll said:

Kavats

This is a really odd one. The Incubator Segment's blueprint needed to start breeding them is both a Dojo Research (which needs a considerable amount of ressources and time) but can also drop from Hyekka Masters. What a lot of people will agree is infuriating though is the Genetic Codes needed to both build the Incubator Segment and breed one of the spacecats themselves. Quite bluntly, it's a worse grind than Kubrow Eggs were (and still are). I believe Rebecca and Megan can attest to that, having tried it on the Prime Time livestream with little to no success. It's mental suicide to farm for them and not just spending platinum in the market place.

To make this point worse, kavat starter kit sold on market doesn't include kavat upgrade segment, making players have to build it and use the 10 kavat gen codes included in the pack to craft the segment instead of using it to straight up get a kitty.

Said that I agree with all of your points. 

Btw, I see no dev-bashing, just feedback, so I doubt this topic gets to be locked, most likely just merged into SotR megathread.

 

[Anarchye]

"everything will be fixed soon"

fixed when though? there has been many prevalent errors that have been left over during months, or even years

One example here, they bothered to mess with archwing yet the bug which makes all your regular weapons show up still happens. Corvas parts are nowhere to be seen yet (correct me in this one if anyone knows where they had gone since everything seems to be in syndicate yet these are not there)

For more than a year there was also that graphic bug with grineer scorpio units having a black face, this is not about "soon" anymore, its about getting done or not.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Anarchye

[Jack_Skywalker]

When I saw Tenshin preparing to engage us in battle,my heart was like....

Edited July 11, 2016 by Jack_Skywalker

[Wevi]

5 minutes ago, Jack_Skywalker said:

When I saw Tenshin preparing to engage us in battle,my heart was like....

 

Nice off topic for your first post.

Edited July 11, 2016 by Wevi

[Sitchrea]

The solar map rework is a foundation for things to come. It's a whole lot better than the 2.0 variant, though I do wish that the places labelled "Madurai Sphere" were still there. :(

[-Kryptyk-]

10 minutes ago, Jack_Skywalker said:

When I saw Tenshin preparing to engage us in battle,my heart was like....

I laughed way harder than I should've xD

[-Sharpz-]

30 minutes ago, MercuryDoll said:

Inbefore locked for "dev-bashing", but you guys showcase this time and time again. You make stuff on a whim and don't take the time to take a step back and look at the big picture. To elaborate, i'll be dissecting each feature of the Specters of the Rails update and point you to where it went wrong.

The starmap rework:

An echo of the good old CB times, refined to make it actually look like a map. Aesthetically okay at first but suffers from a truckload of problems. It manages to look busy as a postoffice, yet doesn't show anything relevant. The nodes are tiny but still clashed together, you have to hover over them (which sometimes doesn't work or the spot is off) to see what their game mode is etc, their connections are at times very odd. Especially the connections from one planet to another looks hella confusing, as there is no indicator in zoomed out mode either. Progressing through the planets was completely reworked without notifying the players beforehand and, with the addition of junctions, added hardstops for new players. For example Earth, the new starting planet apparently. One of the requirements is to kill 3 eximus units, which only spawns past 20 minutes in a survival( or 20 rounds in a defense), a new player won't be even close to being geared and/or skilled to pull that off. Another junction requires nanospores, which can't be gathered before he cleared the junction unless taxi'd, creating a "key behind the locked door" situation. Apart from that it lacks a lot more QoL features and technical polishing, like instantly starting the mission (where did the "Accept" feature go we had previously?) because we clicked a node that was behind another UI element. Another important feature missing is choosing which mode you want to play if it so happens that there's an Alert Mission or Syndicate Mission happening on the node.

Archwing:

Again, it was made to be barely functional and then pushed as live update. Lack of manual rolling, awkward camera positions and FoV. The floatiness/driftiness could have been a nice touch if Corpus tilesets didn't require precise maneuvering so much, it's headbang city right now. There's also still a significant lack content for archwing, making the rankup process more of a necessary sidequest rather than an integral part of the game.

Void and Relics

For a system that was supposed to reduce the grind, it managed to do nothing at all. We still need to grind keys Relics, the dropchances are barely different from what we had previously, upgrading isn't nearly as powerful as players hoped it would be. It is just another layer of grind to slightly increase the dropchances. The old problem of keysharing/scamming still isn't fixed because we can't see if and what Relic the other players are carrying. It made the hunt for Prime gear more accessible to new players, but it didn't manage to improve on the problems that players wanted adressed. Another thing that's bothering is that you can't play a mission with a fissure without picking one of your Relics, should you have one in your inventory. Again we're facing forced gameplay. The Void is now pretty much irrelevant outside of farming Argon as well, which is kinda sad because from the "lore" it should have been a pretty important place.

Kavats

This is a really odd one. The Incubator Segment's blueprint needed to start breeding them is both a Dojo Research (which needs a considerable amount of ressources and time) but can also drop from Hyekka Masters. What a lot of people will agree is infuriating though is the Genetic Codes needed to both build the Incubator Segment and breed one of the spacecats themselves. Quite bluntly, it's a worse grind than Kubrow Eggs were (and still are). I believe Rebecca and Megan can attest to that, having tried it on the Prime Time livestream with little to no success. It's mental suicide to farm for them and not just spending platinum in the market place.

 

The conclusion i draw is that DE did not take the time to plan any of the features, they didn't draw out the new starmap layout to ensure it was both userfriendly, nor did they check for any deadstops a new player might encounter. They didn't take a look from a step back to check if what they did was actually playable and not a bare minimum function techdemo. They release things as soon as the code compiled. All this indicates to a lack of proper design documenting and implementing things as they go like an amateur "ideaguy" making a GameMaker game for the first time. Either that, or whoever is pressing them to release clearly unfinished work is trying to milk the game and shove it off the cliff as soon as it gets dry.

Agree!!  Very well said. 

[TennoPain]

ALL OF these problems were predicted by veterans before the update DE did not listen to veterans this time 

DO NOT BAN ME its the fact.

I for one feel like a lot of ''decisions'' were not made by DE it is so much different than other updates (market + cost of plat etc...) super high greed

I wonder did ''other 'people/partners' had ''a say in this update''

 

[StallordD]

31 minutes ago, MercuryDoll said:

 Another thing that's bothering is that you can't play a mission with a fissure without picking one of your Relics, should you have one in your inventory. Again we're facing forced gameplay.

One small thing, you CAN go into a mission without a relic, but the option is hidden below the menu so it's barely visible. I think they messed up the layering of the UI elements on that screen, but it IS an option.

Edited July 11, 2016 by StallordD

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, TennoPain said:

ALL OF these problems were predicted by veterans before the update DE did not listen to veterans this time 

DO NOT BAN ME its the fact.

I for one feel like a lot of ''decisions'' were not made by DE it is so much different than other updates (market + cost of plat etc...) super high greed

I wonder did ''other 'people/partners' had ''a say in this update''

 

You love this word 'veterans'. It appears in, I would guess, more than 10%, maybe even 15%, of your posts.

[Nethaufer]

Actually, kubrow egg drops are stupid common now, I think I've found at least one in all the missions on Earth I've run since the update.

[TennoPain]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

You love this word 'veterans'. It appears in, I would guess, more than 10%, maybe even 15%, of your posts.

Yes so ?

[notlamprey]

30 minutes ago, MercuryDoll said:

 ~boosh~

This update was rushed out before it was ready; that much is definitely true.

DE knows it, and evidently wasn't able to prevent it because of something. That something is a black box; we don't know what factors were in play. I do feel like you're probably being a little bit harsh there at the end, though. Looking at all the iterations this thing went through, radical changes all over the place... it isn't so much that they were incompetent as they were victims of not having any time to polish what wound up having to go out the door.

They were changing all kinds of stuff right at the final hour. That might be poor planning on their part, sure. I'd buy that. But calling it "baby's first gamemaker game" feels like gratuitous hyperbole.

[NightmareT12]

I need to ask, Starchart wise...

How the heck are you guys using the map? I press/click on the planets (or the "To X") and it zooms in a lot, and all the nodes look well spaced and not really... "tiny" (yes it's small, but I don't think it's that bad). Unless you guys try to zoom in the less possible?

Edited July 11, 2016 by NightmareT12

[Nelsonz80]

37 minutes ago, MercuryDoll said:

The conclusion i draw is that DE did not take the time to plan any of the features, they didn't draw out the new starmap layout to ensure it was both userfriendly, nor did they check for any deadstops a new player might encounter. They didn't take a look from a step back to check if what they did was actually playable and not a bare minimum function techdemo. They release things as soon as the code compiled. All this indicates to a lack of proper design documenting and implementing things as they go like an amateur "ideaguy" making a GameMaker game for the first time. Either that, or whoever is pressing them to release clearly unfinished work is trying to milk the game and shove it off the cliff as soon as it gets dry.

I can somewhat agree on most of your post, I just didn't like the tone of "the dev team is stupid and lazy" because they know this game makes a lot of money for a lot of people and they are clearly passionate about it. Also, I think the most probable reason for this mess is the second reason in the quoted paragraph above, since Steve has said that multiple times.

[CrazyCatLad]

23 minutes ago, Sitchrea said:

The solar map rework is a foundation for things to come. It's a whole lot better than the 2.0 variant, though I do wish that the places labelled "Madurai Sphere" were still there. :(

I liked that early concept better too.

[MercuryDoll]

7 minutes ago, StallordD said:

One small thing, you CAN go into a mission without a relic, but the option is hidden below the menu so it's barely visible. I think they messed up the layering of the UI elements on that screen, but it IS an option.

Fair enough if it's just a bug, but if it's not available it is NOT an option. The point about unfinished work still stands, sadly.

 

4 minutes ago, notlamprey said:

This update was rushed out before it was ready; that much is definitely true.

DE knows it, and evidently wasn't able to prevent it because of something. That something is a black box; we don't know what factors were in play. I do feel like you're probably being a little bit harsh there at the end, though. Looking at all the iterations this thing went through, radical changes all over the place... it isn't so much that they were incompetent as they were victims of not having any time to polish what wound up having to go out the door.

They were changing all kinds of stuff right at the final hour. That might be poor planning on their part, sure. I'd buy that. But calling it "baby's first gamemaker game" feels like gratuitous hyperbole.

Yeah, but until they reveal what said something is, the blame is still on them. Sure the words i chose were sharp but the truth is seldom gentle. It might be a bit hyperbole, but it is clearly the sign of a completely inexperienced gamedev team, which DE at this point should not be anymore, considering they have worked 4 years on this game alone. If they don't part themselves with whatever is making them do such poor decisions they are working towards the game's grave. Sure they'll survive on the few whales that still buy platinum for thousands of dollars and when the game stops being profitable they'll just sell the rest of the rights to some chinese company and work on a new game, but they'll never be able to make a game that'll be recognized as "good".

[hey_guess_what]

3 minutes ago, Nelsonz80 said:

I can somewhat agree on most of your post, I just didn't like the tone of "the dev team is stupid and lazy" because they know this game makes a lot of money for a lot of people and they are clearly passionate about it. Also, I think the most probable reason for this mess is the second reason in the quoted paragraph above, since Steve has said that multiple times.

This is not a "dev team is stupid and lazy" tone.  From what I gather it's a get your act together before an investor steps in and forces out the core staff tone.  This update was rushed and needlessly.  They had a deadline and failed to meet it twice.  Something must change.  A game of this size and complexity needs two things good programming and a solid direction to go in.  Without both it will slowly fail, and to me it stings a bit because I really do like this game (pre-update).  If it is investors forcing them to create new content and release it before it is ready they need to buy back the shares that the investors have and regain control of the company, and if it's not well either restructuring the team or bring in new blood to help the dev team.  

And lastly a PTS(public test server) is almost necessary for them to release minimal bug updates without having a full time tester team to smooth out the bugs before launch.  A game this large can't be called a garage project anymore or in beta. (FFS like 20GBS+)  There has to be a quality of the work regardless of the time they spend in coding.  Bugs are to be expected, but as players have stated many times across multiple threads.  These were rushed game breaking bugs released on an already delayed update.

[Airwolfen]

DESteve noted on reddit that the patch was indeed rushed due to a promotional deadline (basically you send out promotional material well beforehand with a date of release attached). If not for the deadline he personally would have held the update back as he knew it was not done yet.

He does however praises the QA team for working its hardest even though the time span was short. there was only so much they could do to iron out as much as possible. Probably would have been a lot worse were they actually lazy.