Umbra Warframes (Discussion Thread)

[Vlada91]

Which of this two has a better appearance? xD

[BornWithTeeth]

So, let's do some speculation. Let's not use a magnifying glass, let's use a scalpel and a grid.

 

By this I mean, we can probably guess a couple of things which Umbra lore is not going to be.

 

Vlada91, you and I had an exchange in another thread where you floated the idea that perhaps Umbra's quest would involve one of the two remaining unopened doors on the Orbiter. I responded by saying that that idea could work, but only if the room involved was the Warframe Calibration Room/Warframe Workshop or similar, not if the room was going to be the Umbra Chamber. My reasoning was simple: Everyone's got an Orbiter, everyone's got Warframes, not everyone is super hyped for Umbra. Dedicating a big part of everyone's Orbiter to a Warframe which not everyone is interested in would not be an amazing move. However, using Umbra's Quest to reveal the necessity of a facility for 'taming' particularly dangerous Warframes? A facility which can then be used to upgrade other Warframes? That would work amazingly well, because it leaves options open, it doesn't lock everyone down into following one specific build path.

 

 

Locking Umbra behind a requirement which not everyone will meet is not a good idea.

 

Following on from that one....I get that it was probably not ever a serious idea, but Umbra will really probably, almost certainly, not be the 'frame where you kill yourself in order to permanently transfer into it. If they did that, well....some people would be super happy, while others who had been waiting with baited breath for the release would go berserk.

(Actually, they already did something like that with Second Dream, but nevermind.....)

 

Umbra will probably not be related to anything going on with the Syndicates, as not everyone is involved with them, and the chances are fair that even if someone is involved, their favoured Syndicates might not have anything to do with it. Would the Arbiters of Hexis be interested in ancient Warframe lore? They sure would. Would the Steel Meridian? Pfff.

 

Will Umbra be related to Stalker? There's nothing ruling that out, because Stalker affects everybody. He's already done so, via Second Dream. The only argument here is that it might make Stalker a little overexposed, to be involved in multiple quests one after anoth-Oh hello Alad! Didn't see you there, hey, how's it going?

 

Will Umbra be related to the change in how the Void is accessed? Maybe, because there's nothing excluding it. This is another thing which is going to affect everyone, so that's fair game to be used as an intro vector. It's one which I particularly like, by the by, as I frigging love the notion that a radical change in how we enter the Void might make Orokin refuges hidden deeper and deeper in subspace become accessible once more. That whole thing would be a really cool way of making artifacts of the Orokin Era suddenly open for research once more.

 

Bad old Grandfather Hunhow? Yeah, maybe. Everyone who's done Second Dream has an attachment to him. However....Umbra cannot be connected to the weapons War or Broken War. Everyone who did Second Dream has Broken War, or has used it to build War....but treating the two as interchangeable would be odd, and you just know that some people got rid of the thing, not wanting it on their ship. 

(I refuse to build War. Even if the blueprint drops, I refuse to allow an intact War on my Orbiter.)

 

In the interests of keeping things open, this also means that nearly any boss battle which hasn't been redone is open for use. Nef Anyo is a creepy televangelist conman, and I wouldn't like him to be secretly sitting on sweet Warframe secrets, it would be kinda lame, but it could happen.

 

 

So, what else is Umbra probably not connected to? What requirements in the game are less likely to be connected to Umbra because not every player will meet them or come anywhere near wanting to meet them?

 

 

EDIT: Also, Vlada, I like the Umbra appearance much more than the Proto appearance. The Proto skin has, like, straps and puches, and looks like a commando, which is appropriate for the Dark Sector source material. However, Umbra doesn't look like a commando wearing not-quite-finished armour, it looks like a whole, complete Warframe. I like how ornate it is, and it looks physically larger and more imposing than default Excalibur too. 

Edited February 29, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

13 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Agree.

No point having 2 mastery fodders per frame (Don't forget that it's not just gonna be Excalibur. All the frames will likely get Umbraed too).

That would just make it a farm fest for a small lazy tweak.

It should come with new abilities and not be just minor tweaks like Primes which is just laziness.

It might seem redundant to a founder, but to the other 99% of the community that doesn't have access to him, it's simply the means to an Excalibur Prime replacement.

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

11 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

Which of this two has a better appearance? xD

excal umbra .... for me o.o

 

11 hours ago, NDarkstar said:

I'd like to see a Valkyr Umbra based on the Dullahan 

If we're going to go into the shadows with the waframes, I would like to see some seriously 'dark' stylistic differences.

that does sound pretty cool actually 

 

16 hours ago, firelordzx5 said:

Then I'm disappointed.

 

It's redundant to have Three Excaliburs that do the SAME EXACT THING.

I was expecting different abilities or something added to said ability

they dont do the same thing

primes gain energy from death orbs in void/moon

normal vanilas dont

also primes have higher stats

umbras will have higher stats , and as yet unkown passives

im hoping its related to void power....

[Demoonic]

13 hours ago, (XB1)mastiffplayer said:

just take my money already i cant wait for umbra 

 

Same here lol. 

 

12 hours ago, Vlada91 said:

Which of this two has a better appearance? xD

While I like proto excal, I still think umbra looks better than any of the variations of excaliboy.

(Yes, that includes prime, IMO)

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

^agreed, the whole model is very well executed  

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

17 hours ago, (XB1)ToothlessApollo said:

It might seem redundant to a founder, but to the other 99% of the community that doesn't have access to him, it's simply the means to an Excalibur Prime replacement.

I am actually anticipating a whole set of Umbras. Not just Excalibur so if it's just minor tweaks, I rather it just be a skin because it frankly doesn't make much difference.

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

5 hours ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

I am actually anticipating a whole set of Umbras. Not just Excalibur so if it's just minor tweaks, I rather it just be a skin because it frankly doesn't make much difference.

Nah, rather it be a frame. We already have like 5 different Excalibur skins. THAT'S redundant.

[firelordzx5]

I reall hope that they gave him set of similar abilities but no the same ones

 

Havin Three Excaliburs (Regular, Prime, Umbra) that do the same exact thing, isn't appealing at all (except perhaps getting a replacement of Excal Prime for these that doesn't have him)

Edited March 1, 2016 by firelordzx5

[veroslav00]

When and do we can found Excalibur umbra??

[IEpicWolfI]

 When it's released!!

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

Unavailable at this point in time.

[Yaerion]

6 minutes ago, veroslav00 said:

When and do we can found Excalibur umbra??

Thread Slash Dashed from General Discussion to Players helping Players.

[Noioiy]

You can play Chinese warframe and get access to it I guess.

 

Devs are still working on it. I've got a feeling that the Umbra series of frames will be tied with Second Dream. And that alone makes things more complicated than just releasing a frame just like that.

[Wawazat]

i doubt that umbra will have the same energy gain affect form void orbs. they might have some sort of interactive ability though and that would be nice.

[ClockworkSpectre]

My guess would be U19 so another 2-3 months unfortunately. 

[Siolith]

Stop asking this question. Everytime i hear or look this complains about Umbras, a kitty die.

Don't let the kitties die. Stop asking about it.

Edited March 1, 2016 by Siolith

[Demoonic]

Waiting for umbra like

Spoiler

 

[(XBOX)ToothlessApollo]

6 hours ago, Demoonic said:

Waiting for umbra like

  Hide contents

 

You founder guys are a minuscule group of completely bias guys who don't care about Excalibur Umbra because you already got something close to good enough. This is something for the other 99.9% of the Warframe community.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

16 minutes ago, (XB1)ToothlessApollo said:

You founder guys are a minuscule group of completely bias guys who don't care about Excalibur Umbra because you already got something close to good enough. This is something for the other 99.9% of the Warframe community.

Wow..Founders are the reason this game even managed to run to year 2016. It could have died few years back.

 

Also, think long term. You make Excalibur Umbra just a minor clone of Excalibur Prime and then what next? What about the other umbras? What's the point of grinding for more frames with not much differencw but the look.

 

Excalibur Prime is just 25 armour more so is Umbra gonna be 25 hp more or something with everything the same.

 

What's the point then? Mastery fodder? Remember there will be more umbras and if they are all like that, what's the point?

[FieserMoep]

21 minutes ago, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Wow..Founders are the reason this game even managed to run to year 2016. It could have died few years back.

Eh, wrong.
You took part in making this game exist in the first place. Every other customer is, just as you, the reason this game managed to run to 2016.
I am not against founders yet that is actually a huge difference.

So yea, this is a nod to those that cant get access to Excal Prime, so what? You don't have to grind it. Nobody is forcing you. Just ignore it if you so desire. Also what is the point of something that just looks different? That point is half the business model of FashionFrame. Seems you Founders have not payed initionnally enough to make this game run till 2020 without the devs every wasting a thought on financially gains. ;)

People want some sort of "alternative" to Excal Prime and there may non-founders be around that have spend more money than most and will on stuff like this. In the end DE cares about the customers that pay money NOW. Not that have payed money some time ago and it seems the numbers justify what they do.

[Demoonic]

3 hours ago, (XB1)ToothlessApollo said:

You founder guys are a minuscule group of completely bias guys who don't care about Excalibur Umbra because you already got something close to good enough. This is something for the other 99.9% of the Warframe community.

.....Wat, where did that even come from. 

[HalfDarkShadow]

On 2/29/2016 at 2:00 AM, NDarkstar said:

I'd like to see a Valkyr Umbra based on the Dullahan 

 

Ok, screw it, images aren't working..

 

If we're going to go into the shadows with the waframes, I would like to see some seriously 'dark' stylistic differences.

When you said Dullahan and dark stylistic design philosophies, due to my unconditional love for the Soul Sacrifice series (Delta to be specific hehe), my mind went straight into thinking of Marvelous AQL/SCE Japan Studio/Comcept's take on (Irish Folklore?) Celtic Mythology's Dullahan you're referring to:

Spoiler

Not important spoiler down here, just a digression, so feel free to skip it.

Spoiler

Eh, what the hell, here's another dank artwork; I'll put NSFW, though it's not 100% exactly, it's just a bit grotesque haha. So just in case c;

Spoiler

Though they have toned it down in the later years to fit more within the themes it was going for and overall give it more colour (figuratively and literally), a more virile tone, and overall more life. But still keeping it's twisted and 'grimm' aesthetics (lawl grimm, Soul Sacrifice pun lol), which you can see in the second photo down there, which is SFW, added spoilers to stay consistent:

Spoiler

 

Though to be fair, it was Keji Inafune who was the lead designer for the game, which umph! Sorry Derp Souls, I love some of your designs, but to me, you got's nothing on the OG here hahaha :P
(#where'smyArmoredCoredammit)

But still, they could definitely pull something off in Warframe like that i.e. something dark, twisted, grotesque, but stunning and beautiful in it's own way that fit's within Warframe's overall aesthetics. I mean hell, look at the infested and the two bosses we have. I'd definitely welcome something along the lines of that, but preferably not solely infested-inspired designs.

Edited March 2, 2016 by HalfDarkShadow
We all make spelling mistakes.

[OoKeNnEtHoO]

5 hours ago, FieserMoep said:

Eh, wrong.
You took part in making this game exist in the first place. Every other customer is, just as you, the reason this game managed to run to 2016.
I am not against founders yet that is actually a huge difference.

So yea, this is a nod to those that cant get access to Excal Prime, so what? You don't have to grind it. Nobody is forcing you. Just ignore it if you so desire. Also what is the point of something that just looks different? That point is half the business model of FashionFrame. Seems you Founders have not payed initionnally enough to make this game run till 2020 without the devs every wasting a thought on financially gains. ;)

People want some sort of "alternative" to Excal Prime and there may non-founders be around that have spend more money than most and will on stuff like this. In the end DE cares about the customers that pay money NOW. Not that have payed money some time ago and it seems the numbers justify what they do.

Precisely, if the game never even made it to the first year, how does it make it to 2016?

I get your point on what happens from then to 2016 though but if you think people with the purchasing power to spend 50 to 200 plus usd on a game that could very likely fail can't afford or be willing to spend that much or more on a game that is somewhat successful now and after a few years (likelihood of job promotions increases), then there is much likelihood of you being wrong.

That said, that is not the point I'm driving across.

What happens after Excal Umbra?

What's the point of Frost Umbra, Valkyr Umbra, Nova Umbra..etc if they provide nothing more than just the looks?

Why must it even be mutually exclusive?

Why can't Umbras come with different abilities and skin?

Imagine if you own Frost Umbra, you can now swap the skins of Frost Umbra with Prime (if you have it on your inventory) and vice versa but yet have 2 separate sets of abilities but with the same theme (ice powers).

Don't just think of it as a one-off, people. Think far.

[FieserMoep]

Just now, OoKeNnEtHoO said:

Precisely, if the game never even made it to the first year, how does it make it to 2016.

Many games had been crowd funded, many failed for they could not attract a wide customer base.
Making something exist and making something last are two different actions,
 

As with the people spending Money I know mostly two groups. One group always buys the new Acess and might be very well a Founder, though what matters from a business standpoint is still the CURRENT purchase. The other group that to my knowledge and experience spends most are relatively new players that also buy plat without discounts.
Most veterans I know just spend the occasional 75% coupon for you reach the breaking point rather fast where you simply make a huge plus from just playing the game for you have most of the items and the only alternative is to sell or trade them. A mate of mine casually played for two months and aside from vaulted primes and trader items he has all but ivara maxed and half a dozen clan items maxed. The longer you play the less incentive there is to pay actual money OUTSIDE promotions like early access etc. and in this niche Umbras DO fall. They generate revenue. But you are right, that is actually not the topic here.

Aside the reason that they generate revenue (And that is an important one) they do not require much work either. Balancing Excal will Balance Excal Prime and Excal Umbra. Its less effort and the art department can be occupied with "reskins" if you want to call them that and yes, to a certain degree that is what they are.

Also what is the point of Primes? Basically they cross the checkbox for "upgrade" and "style" while their background is just "The Orokin did something even better." In that regard Umbras can be ANYTHING. Especially given how DE retcons and tweaks its lore without much a thought. Umbra can be anything from "corrupted" Primes / Prototypes from the last Days of the War vaulted in Derelics or even Sentient influenced due to Natah in response to the new threat. It can be a cleansed version of something Stalker related or whatever.

To anwser your question tho: Why arnt prime just skins you can slap on your frames?

Because they require grind; because they are a new, seperate toy; because they grant mastery; because they can be tagged with a huge price; because they feel special and like an achievement; because they occupy another warframe slot because that is the actual business model.
Is it redundant? Absolutly. Does it work? It does.
For years people cry for an alternative to Excal Prime even tho the stat increases are not that relevant. And now they cash in. And to be frank, I will hunt that frame with ferocity. I might or might not buy it, yet I mill most definitely want to play it. And me playing the game makes me, just as for any F2P game, the actual payment for I populate the environment for the whales and hence justify their purchases.

And if there every will be a Valkyr Umbra... heh... Prime when?! I will simply enjoy playing her. That is the curse of fashion frame. Why did I purchase Mirage Noble Stance with plat?

Because I like nice things.