BLADESTORM: Does it really NEED to Change?

[Camelslayer]

7 hours ago, Quanlain said:

Rip covert lethality, RB, Sleep Equinox, Sleep Ivara, oneshots  on the fallent targets. 
No, not better. Sometimes it's hard to kill high level enemies, so we still need a way to kill lvl 100 bombard before he kills you.

You act as if finisher attacks can't be tweaked if finisher damage is removed.

[Nazrethim]

12 minutes ago, Camelslayer said:

You act as if finisher attacks can't be tweaked if finisher damage is removed.

Well, there are actually TWO "Finisher" damage in Warframe. The PvE Finisher ignores shield, armor and has zero reduction or bonus vs resistances. The Conclave Finisher It's the same except it doesn't ignore shields.

[(PSN)martin576]

Why...

Why...

Why...

Why can't we noobs, we casuals, we "playing 2 hours after a hard work day and enjoying it" guys have at least ONE easy to play frame, which can nuke out 10-20 enemies with a press of a button and some fancy jumps?

WHY is it a must to turn every single frame in this game into a stupid Saryn or a Stupid Mag, which of course every offbeat pretends to know how to play right, but in reality, 80% of the playerbase ignores them?

NO.

Don't rework Ash and don't rework Ember. Don't touch them.

Edited August 8, 2016 by (PS4)martin576

[R34LM]

My main argument for bladestorm is that it is the last remaining ability that outright kills things without needing other butting presses. Ash is made to kill things; bladestorm does its job. The argument against it is the exact problem, as now similar nuke abilities take too long or don't do enough damage.

Killing the enemy outright is the best form of cc, as no crowds means no need to control. But yeah, I understand it can be boring, but you really can't blame Ash for doing what he is made to do.

But, his other abilities don't have any synergy within the kit. They work on their own for their own situation. Again, good and bad. And the fact that bladestorm can bug enemies to become invulnerable and that it can't be cancelled when you are stuck on a juggernaut is annoying.

So, most of the arguments against ash are just people being sore about not getting their fun because ash is doing his job as an assassin . But he can be tweaked to have some more interaction in his kit.

[Camelslayer]

52 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Don't rework Ash and don't rework Ember. Don't touch them.

Ember could use some buffs, really. She used to be damage frame, then they nerfed her to oblivion. Her damage is now too reliant on Accelerant.

[Xekrin]

18 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!

I am fine with Ash being a room nuker, as you said there are a number of others (saryn (yes the new one, I play her fine), EQuinox, Frost) the one thing that Ash does that the others do not is make their enemies completely immune to all outside damage.  Only Ash can now damage those he has marked until his animations end, which take several seconds to complete.

Compared with Maim instant explosion, frost freezing everything and lowering their armor or even saryn who although not as powerful with miasma as before can still corrosive proc her enemies.  Ash makes everything I do and have done to a group of targets and wastes it.  It is a complete waste of time to try and attack anything with an Ash in the group because while I may not be able to room nuke I can still kill things in a second or three and at the final second BOOM glowing red with ash mark and what was the point of me attacking?

With ash in a team its just easier to run around, stay alive and wait for ash to inevitably mark and kill everything because the chances you get there first are small and even if you do, unless you equal his 'room nuke' esque ability and insta kill your target, you've just wasted your time trying.

Him and Mirage with her Synoid Spamulor.

[(PSN)martin576]

4 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I am fine with Ash being a room nuker, as you said there are a number of others (saryn (yes the new one, I play her fine), EQuinox, Frost) the one thing that Ash does that the others do not is make their enemies completely immune to all outside damage.  Only Ash can now damage those he has marked until his animations end, which take several seconds to complete.

Compared with Maim instant explosion, frost freezing everything and lowering their armor or even saryn who although not as powerful with miasma as before can still corrosive proc her enemies.  Ash makes everything I do and have done to a group of targets and wastes it.  It is a complete waste of time to try and attack anything with an Ash in the group because while I may not be able to room nuke I can still kill things in a second or three and at the final second BOOM glowing red with ash mark and what was the point of me attacking?

With ash in a team its just easier to run around, stay alive and wait for ash to inevitably mark and kill everything because the chances you get there first are small and even if you do, unless you equal his 'room nuke' esque ability and insta kill your target, you've just wasted your time trying.

Him and Mirage with her Synoid Spamulor.

Oooh, so the wind blows from this direction. You can stand frames only when they make the bed for your kills! They freeze the enemies for you,  they take half of their health,  or they melt their armor. And while they do it with button presses, you comfortably shoot or melee them.

[Xekrin]

1 minute ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Oooh, so the wind blows from this direction. You can stand frames only when they make the bed for your kills! They freeze the enemies for you,  they take half of their health,  or they melt their armor. And while they do it with button presses, you comfortably shoot or melee them.

Uh, sure if you want to twist my words, but since I usually play Saryn and Frost I'd be the one melting the armor and freezing the enemy.  Wouldn't be nice for ash if when he finally gets around to his 18th marked target, they were softened up because I hit miasma?  Or one of my spores cause a viral proc?

This is impossible at present since as soon as he marks them they are immune to everything else, include spore spreading, getting frozen and so on.

If you wish to see it as me whining that I want kills handed to me, that's just dandy, I'm fully aware of how I play and what I do.  If you think him marking immune all his targets is perfect as-is, that's your opinion.  This is mine.  Try not playing Ash once or twice and instead playing with one and see how it is on the other side.

[motorfirebox]

1 hour ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Why can't we noobs, we casuals, we "playing 2 hours after a hard work day and enjoying it" guys have at least ONE easy to play frame, which can nuke out 10-20 enemies with a press of a button and some fancy jumps?

A noob/casual frame who dominates low- or mid-tier content is fine. A noob/casual frame that dominates high-end content is not fine. If you want to be noob/casual and you don't want to put in the time and effort to improve, that's totally cool. But it's not at all cool for a noob/casual to be able to completely destroy skilled, veteran players by virtue of being able to choose a ridiculously overpowered frame. If you want to remain noob/casual, you can stick to noob/casual content.

[(PSN)martin576]

15 minutes ago, motorfirebox said:

A noob/casual frame who dominates low- or mid-tier content is fine. A noob/casual frame that dominates high-end content is not fine. If you want to be noob/casual and you don't want to put in the time and effort to improve, that's totally cool. But it's not at all cool for a noob/casual to be able to completely destroy skilled, veteran players by virtue of being able to choose a ridiculously overpowered frame. If you want to remain noob/casual, you can stick to noob/casual content.

Who knows, maybe this noob even play more than you, Mr. Veteran? Maybe the only difference between you and me that I'm not bored and instead of whining for reworks, I play.

[(PSN)martin576]

49 minutes ago, Camelslayer said:

Ember could use some buffs, really. She used to be damage frame, then they nerfed her to oblivion. Her damage is now too reliant on Accelerant.

Yes, I would like to see her WoF more stronger too. But since Void will be dead on PS4 too very soon, it's unneccessary.

[Eldritchsqueaker]

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Yes, I would like to see her WoF more stronger too. But since Void will be dead on PS4 too very soon, it's unneccessary.

There's more content than just the void dude. Ember's got kind of the same problem Mag had and that they didn't really fix all that well, she only scales well against one faction and that's infested. Which is basically what I mostly use her for.

[motorfirebox]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Who knows, maybe this noob even play more than you, Mr. Veteran? Maybe the only difference between you and me that I'm not bored and instead of whining for reworks, I play.

I'm not talking about hours played, though if you started out on PS4 it's not very likely you've got more hours logged than I do. It's about skill. You said, in the post that I responded to, that you want to be able to play a frame that kicks butt without requiring much skill. That's fine. But such low-skilled butt-kicking should fall off as you reach higher-level content. This is just basic common sense game design.

Edited August 8, 2016 by motorfirebox

[ThePredicament]

Pressing 4 to kill stuff all the time is NOT FUN.

Pressing 4 to kill stuff and not have to deal with lots of dangerous enemies all in the same room is FUN.

Using all his kit to do stuff, including pressing 4 is FUN.

The skill's non-instant kill effect should be considered when factoring a balance between it. It's a full auto teleport instant kill, if it's slower than what it is now, it's just as useless as it was pre-buff, if it were turned into a stance (for all the pro-interactive players out there) it would either be too OP, ala CL knife plus Hysteria aug tele, or the same bunch of people are going to do the same exact thing they did before, which is stay in that stance and just do the same exact thing over and over again.

[Xebov]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Who knows, maybe this noob even play more than you, Mr. Veteran? Maybe the only difference between you and me that I'm not bored and instead of whining for reworks, I play.

I dont think that whining is the correct word here. Ash Bladestorm is currently simply annoying as hell. Ive seen alot of them in sorties where i have to constantly run around rezing these guys becase they "have max power strength" and die off alot, getting killed by them in radiation hazard missions. Or even better waiting for them to get off that eximus i could kill in seconds that they jump up and down for their full skill duration. If i get annoyed enought and start doing sorties in private these guys will be the first to come to this forums and whine that the content gets to hard because noone is there to carry them.

 

The point with Ash is that players dont need to do much to achieve alot (like motorfirebox allready said) and that the current Bladestorm stops players from actively improving themselves because they have a one click solution that gets them far.

[Skaleek]

I dunno about you guys but honestly, the way i mod my weapons/using arcane strike, i get my bladestorm done in about 2-7 seconds depending on enemy count. Thats not that far off of some other abilities casting times. I mean if you use the default ability without pumping up your attack speed, yeah it takes a long time... but if youre smart about it... I like it. It's going to change, but i still love the cutscene effect of the ability (cept when it messes up).

[SilkTerror]

I like ash but rarely use his ulti unless its a juicy giant room of enemies waiting to be stabbed and even then i feel like a jerk taking other ppls kills who might not even be near the room but have mobs on them close by , but i have no idea how to change blade storm  so ignore my rambling xD

[Jamescell]

15 hours ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

Long Snip

Read my comment above yours on page 2. I think I very thoroughly rebuke the basis of your argument.

[MindHoney]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)martin576 said:

Who knows, maybe this noob even play more than you, Mr. Veteran? Maybe the only difference between you and me that I'm not bored and instead of whining for reworks, I play.

There's a very common thing that happens in games where the developers will put in a tool for the player that's easy and get the job done. Then as the game progress that tool get less useful and you puck up a more difficult tool to use that gets the job done well. In this game that brake happens when you start considering cc>dmg on a frame. Ashes problem is that he doesn't have a hard tool, he's easy to use and for any one else hes annoying. 

Take mag as an example, when I started I say her and though, dam that cc with come in handy later. I didn't start using that cc till much, much later because I could kill everything with pull and my melee. After that failed I started to melee and using polireze to recover my shields when needed. Only when my 3 frame was being using quite alot did I start to see the value in the cc I picked in mag. That was when I was doing t3. If I had gotten my hands on ash second or third I would have just stuck with him for dmg.

If you are calling your self a noob you shouldn't be on here arguing about how bs is fine, you should be trying to see why people have problems with it. As my art teacher told me when I was younger. "If you want to brake the rules you must first know what they are"

My problem with blade storm is too fold 1) the finisher damage, more specifically how it dose true damage. 

2) invincible enemys, I won't play with Ash's I don't know because of that, expecaly in orkan darlect.

[DEATHLOK]

There is no difference between Blade Storm and AoE abilities of a number of other frames allowing players to press "4" over and over. Or press 4 and run around the map. It's all the same, no need to change it. It should not be changed, unless the goal is to remove all the AoE from the game, because, in the end, Blade Storm is nothing more than AoE with added animation.

Edited August 8, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[7Random77]

Only two changes I would like to see.

-Blade storm clones don't block squads weapons damage.

-Ability to cancel blade storm by pressing 4 again. So you can help if someone down.

Everything else seems fine to me.

[Arxfiend]

I don't think it needs rework. I think it's just find.

This whole nerf mentality is getting as bad as it is in Destiny.

[DrBorris]

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

Let us calmly, in the manner of mature adults, assess the situation.

 

19 hours ago, BlackCoMerc said:

WAAAA! Ash-Hole stole all my killz! Mommy! I'm taking my Energy Vampire and going Home!

Excuse me? You start off by asking people to be mature and then within a few lines mock people who get annoyed when an enemy turns red and goes invulnerable? That seems just a wee bit hypocritical.

(Sorry about being testy, I HATE it when people say that everyone who asks for nerfs only do so because they were out-damaged in a mission. You seem to actually bring up other points (which I still don't agree with, but they are coherent and mature nonetheless), but that is in no way a good argument (funny that you make fun of the people who want it reworked in the pro-rework section))

[Arxfiend]

1 minute ago, DrBorris said:

 

Excuse me? You start off by asking people to be mature and then within a few lines mock people who get annoyed when an enemy turns red and goes invulnerable? That seems just a wee bit hypocritical.

(Sorry about being testy, I HATE it when people say that everyone who asks for nerfs only do so because they were out-damaged in a mission. You seem to actually bring up other points (which I still don't agree with, but they are coherent and mature nonetheless), but that is in no way a good argument (funny that you make fun of the people who want it reworked in the pro-rework section))

It's a bit of humor, and it is what people sound like.

Edited August 8, 2016 by H2K3

[DEATHLOK]

2 minutes ago, H2K3 said:

I don't think it needs rework. I think it's just find.

This whole nerf mentality is getting as bad as it is in Destiny.

If they nerf this, they also need to nerf Saryn, Excalibur, Frost, Loki, Ember, Hydros, Banshee, and every other frame with AoE abilities. Just remove AoE abilities from every warframe. Naturally, you'll lose most of your player base, but you'll satisfy the minority upset over their kill statistics.

The only problems I've seen with Blade Storm have been affinity sharing and marked enemies being invulnerable to damage from other players.