Please Dont Nerf Ash

[AnonumusSoldier]

Ok so im a little worried about the upcoming Ash "rework/Nerf". From what I understand Bladestorm is going to become toggleable and go the way of Channel Abilities (Mesa Peacemaker, Excal EB, Ember WoF ect ec t ect). Right now, the best Bladestorm build requires killing duration to up range and strength, so this would spell doom/be a nerf for Bladestorm, especially if it gets an energy drain cost like poor Mesa without a high damage counter balance. Can anyone shed light on this?

Ash is our last massacre frame and I would hate to see him nerfed into the ground. I love playing him from any stand point and he receives a lot of undue hate. I have been using him a lot lately to carry teams thru sorties and have been really glad to have him in my arsenal.  To bring up some Warframe History here, back before we had a lot of warframes, guns, mods arcanes, and sorties we had Tactical Alerts. And during this time except for those weirdos (wink wink) that ran t4 void survival for 2 + hrs we didn't see level 100+ enemies on a daily basis. Then out of the blue we got Phoenix Intercept, a Tactical alert where we had to kill level 100+ enemies on an (old) draco like map with only a heavy weapon for 8 rounds of intercept. Pretty much the only way to beat this was 2 Ashes and a Trin. This was when i really fell in love with Ash, when he got me thru this event. Today Ash is even more powerful then he was then, where he showed us again his prowess in Rathuum (before the nerf), being one of the main frames to beat this event (Chroma and Valk included). If Ash, the last ninja is buried, what will we do when events like these come out and call his name?

 

And before all the Ash haters come out of the wood work because i know that there has been a lot of raging over Radiation sorties and hes always been raged at over kill stealing, that is the USER. Dont hate on the frame, its not his fault.

Kill stealing>Unless im massacring out mobs to save my team, i don't Bladestorm. He has enough other things in his kit to play with. I don't need to be hur dur no one gets me killz. Same with Ember WoF. Players go into low tier where its going to kill everything for 100 miles while u just follow and watch. Thats the User, not the frame, A responsibly player like myself either brings something else or asks the team if i can cheese it to make it go faster. 

                 Rad Sorties> Ash with an intelligent user and a team that doesn't stand around in Rad clouds wont kill his team mates. If i get Rad proced, i wait till it wears off. Then i proceed to kill off the enemies so they dont down my team mates. Simple as that. I see Saryn users in Sorties, which then proceed to murder the whole team 10x and faster then you cna abort, She however cant help it, because the second a spore hits a radiated enemy it can hit an ally. But im not demanding a Saryn nerf because its the user, not the frame.

 

Edit> Response to Ash haters posteing here after feedback from other posters>

ANd before all the Ash haters jump on me, Ash is the last massacre frame, the last frame that can hold off the hordes. In alot of high tier missions that get randoms in them that cant handle it, you NEED IT. You can argue all day long, dont run random, those people shouldn't be running those missions, you shouldnt be carrying people ect ect ect. 1) My internet connection is very poor and i cant run with premade squads. It is alot easier to go random, and i hate playing  by myself. its a co-op game, thats why i play it. 2) You can nerf all the things untill the only way that you can get thru the mission is by working together, but that isnt going ot make every team work together.

I was running xp farms today because i got a login booster, and lost 6 times because the players couldn't make it. If i had had my ash, we would have won. Same in sorties. any interception or defense oriented mission i dont even bother to bring any other frame any more, because  50 percent of the time teams cant hack it, and I end up failing the mission and running 5-6 times untill i break down and use Ash. If your complaint is Ash Bladestorm isnt interactive enough , its just press 4 and watch, i have no problem changing that. But dont kill its massacre power. If your complaint is its massacre power, then Im not going ot fight with you over it because theres no logic behind killing it aside from making other players lives harder.

Edited August 14, 2016 by AnonumusSoldier

[rytisrytis]

He is not going to be nerfed but reworked. Just look at mesa is she useless? is she weak? NO.

Just let DE do their job if they mess it up they will buff him.

[Nox_Terminus]

Ember - WoF doesn't scale very well, and only hits up to 4 targets at any given point, heat proc notwithstanding.

Equinox - Maim deals low damage initially, and takes a long time to reach critical mass for its dispel nuke effect, and even then doesn't apply damage evenly to targets in range.

Oberon - Reckoning deals piddling damage and thus scales poorly, but is useful for its radiation/blind procs.

Nova - Molecular Prime turns enemies into bombs that allies can shoot.

Mag - Crush acts as a strong CC with damage as a secondary benefit

Saryn - Miasma and the rest of her kit is all about combos, and she was nerfed pretty hard, but for good reason.

None of these frames are invincible while using these abilities.

Ash's Bladestorm is getting reworked because it offers no interactivity by the rest of the squad, and is easily spammed. Every other CC does not block allies from interacting with affected enemies, unless they immediately die. In other words, Bladestorm is being fixed because it is an outlier of AoE abilities.

What will we do when challenging events come out? We'll come up with strategies as a community which dont entail press 4 to auto-kill the map. There will be actual difficulty, and actual team play, whats not to like?

[-N7-Leonhart]

If I am not mistaken, I don't think we had any info for a long while on the rework.

In that case, don't just go assuming it's going to be a toggleable, like Ember's. They already said they gave up on that design.

Btw, Ash will certainly be nerfed, that's half of the reason behind the "rework". At the very least, I hope you will get to have complete control over what you do in Blade Storm. That will be more than enough of a nerf for spammers, muhaha.

Edited August 10, 2016 by -BM-Leonhart

[Lactamid]

" I have been using him a lot lately to carry teams thru sorties "

I think for many this is the problem. You shouldn't be able to carry a team through sorties, your whole team should work as a team to be able to complete the mission.
When you have missions like "shotgun only" or "sniper only" players who have Ash can use bladestorm and obliterate the enemies without ever using the specified weapon, bypassing the entire challenge that was intended.
That it on top of this just requires the push of a button and that you pretty much "just watch" leaves it feeling cheesy.

 

I like Ash, he has one of the coolest looks (og helmet) and he has some interesting skills for the most part. I like playing with the cloaking augment for my team and I think teleport is useful, although it could have some improvements.
That bladestorm is a beast of a skill is a lot of what makes Ash so enjoyable, but compared to other frames it is a skill that needs little effort put into it.
It's hard to say exactly how to change it as I don't want to see it becoming unusable, but I can also see why people are concerned with it being overpowered.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Lactamid

[Kevrex97]

its really funny when ever DE wants to do a rework its automatically a nerf and is unplayable and unusable that should not be given a chance.

[felixsylvaris]

Ash Bladestorm is boring, since you press button and watch long animation, at least with other nukes (javelins) it is quicker. It is not interactive. And probably could be done better.

Suggestion of Mesa style toggle when we jump to enemy, but we manually choose and click who to kill next looks promising.

Toggle also allows to go with out nuke away from other players, and dont mess with Valkyr or snipers time.

Also "nerf" to bladestorm means possible buffs, or augments to other abilities.

Edited August 10, 2016 by felixsylvaris

[Redthirst]

29 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

I love playing him

You mean you like pressing 4 and then watching the game play itself?

30 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

If Ash, the last ninja is buried, what will we do when events like these come out and call his name?

Hope that DE won't be stupid enough to release more events that can only be played by cheesing the hell out of them with a select few frames.

32 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

Dont hate on the frame, its not his fault.

By that logic, we can have a frame that wins the entire mission by pressing one button, and it will be fine, because responsible users will ask their team whether they want their game experience ruined.

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, Kanlor said:

its really funny when ever DE wants to do a rework its automatically a nerf and is unplayable and unusable that should not be given a chance.

In this particular case, that is the biggest reason behind the "rework". Too many flaws, it's exploitable, denies control, etc. Tons of glaring issues.

[Xekrin]

35 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

If Ash, the last ninja is buried, what will we do when events like these come out and call his name?

I play Sorties every day, I don't use Ash for any of them, even armor or eximus conditions.  Things work out fine, there are plenty of frames that can deal with 100+ enemies.

35 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

that is the USER. Dont hate on the frame, its not his fault.

Unfortunately the USER can safely be described as the majority of Ash users, I'm happy that you don't BS (bullsh.. er bladestorm) constantly and you take your team into consideration but few others do.

Today Ash is even more powerful then he was then, where he showed us again his prowess in Rathuum (before the nerf), being one of the main frames to beat this event (Chroma and Valk included)

This made me laugh.  Prowess? ok.

Just as someone mentioned above whenever I go into a sortie with condition sniper only and I see an Ash with a vectis rank 0 equipped, I just leave.  I know he's going to do nothing but bladestorm and that is beyond boring for me.

My opinion and others' aside, its up to DE and its been pretty much decided on their part that Ash needs a rework.  Ash mains can complain all they like, and boy have they.  This is probably the 30th thread on ash i've seen in the past two weeks.

I'm sorry you don't want the rework but it will happen, just wait and see what they do with it.  Try not to speculate until they give us official information on the matter.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Xekrin

[D0DECA]

33 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

From what I understand Bladestorm is going to become toggleable and go the way of Channel Abilities (Mesa Peacemaker, Excal EB, Ember WoF ect ec t ect).

Where is that information from? I find it hard to believe that this is all they came up with for the ash redesign.

[Teloch]

Dear OP, your favorite Ash with his constant ult spam had ruined the Raathum event experience for many players. This fact alone is a good enough reason to thrash his ult.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Teloch

[rytisrytis]

Just now, DNG0 said:

Where is that information from? I find it hard to believe that this is all they came up with for the ash redesign.

Scott talked about this in a devstream but it turned out way to OP so they had to rework it again

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

45 minutes ago, AnonumusSoldier said:

-snip-

Like I've said before in my own threads, users don't change, so you have to change their tools. That's a weak excuse pretty much saying you don't want him changed just because you yourself are some sort of exception to every other player spamming Bladestorm. I hardly even use Bladestorm when I play as Ash, and I'm still ok with a rework for him. Making it a toggle is kind of stupid tho imo

[-N7-Leonhart]

What is the delay? Just hammer him already...

[Reifnir]

Nerfhammer is long overdue for Ash and his OHKO-storm.

Swing it hard, DE!

[Necrius]

I just hope it's just as cool to watch as it's now. Not just some lame "waving hands" animation and everyone around him dies.

[D0DECA]

17 minutes ago, rytisrytis said:

Scott talked about this in a devstream but it turned out way to OP so they had to rework it again

Thank you.

I mean, just imagine the current Bladestorm being a toggle Ability. That would basically result in a second, way overpowered version of World on Fire. Wich would be nothing but ridiculous.

Edited August 10, 2016 by DNG0

[(XBOX)Oussii]

I really don't understand some users and their hate for Ash

i have said this in another similar post and i will keep on repeating it:

you like ash, fine

You don't like it, cool, don't play with it and don't team up with someone using ash

You super players can kill a lvl 100 boss with melee or sniper only, we poor players need ash

you play your style, and let us play ours. We will not ask you to join our squad.

We are not asking you to love ash, but for the love of God, don't impose your opinion on us.

Thank you

[Pizzarugi]

43 minutes ago, Kanlor said:

its really funny when ever DE wants to do a rework its automatically a nerf and is unplayable and unusable that should not be given a chance.

Yeah, not like DE hasn't done that in the past and made something worthless.

CoughSynoidGammacorCough

Edited August 10, 2016 by Pizzarugi

[NN13]

43 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I see an Ash with a vectis rank 0 equipped

You do?

43 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I play Sorties every day, I don't use Ash for any of them, even armor

Let me guess...Corrosive Projection?

Edited August 10, 2016 by NN13

[JustOR1G1N]

Bladestorm is just dumb way to clear the room with spamming only one button. It's OP in low and mid lvl and becomes useless in high level missions. because you have to do nothing, but sit and watch while your Ash attacking one enemy over9000 times to kill him. Ash's 4th ability should be replaced with something completely different.

[ShortCat]

6 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

I really don't understand some users and their hate for Ash

i have said this in another similar post and i will keep on repeating it:

you like ash, fine

You don't like it, cool, don't play with it and don't team up with someone using ash

You super players can kill a lvl 100 boss with melee or sniper only, we poor players need ash

you play your style, and let us play ours. We will not ask you to join our squad.

We are not asking you to love ash, but for the love of God, don't impose your opinion on us.

Thank you

To sum up your post: " Don't like it, don't use it". Now, I could write a long post to explain to you how immature this argument is, but I let you figure it out yourself. I just say, that the sole existence of Ash in his current form has to be considered by DE when they develop new content.

[(XBOX)Oussii]

9 minutes ago, ShortCat said:

To sum up your post: " Don't like it, don't use it". Now, I could write a long post to explain to you how immature this argument is, but I let you figure it out yourself. I just say, that the sole existence of Ash in his current form has to be considered by DE when they develop new content.

11 minutes ago, JustOR1G1N said:

 

Immature? lol 

I won't comment as your post shows it all.

But i will be more polite,, and say Thank You !!

[[DE]Momaw]

29 minutes ago, (XB1)Oussii said:

You don't like it, cool, don't play with it and don't team up with someone using ash

You super players can kill a lvl 100 boss with melee or sniper only, we poor players need ash

you play your style, and let us play ours. We will not ask you to join our squad.

• Except, you DO ask me to join your squad, by playing on public matchmaking. :)
• There is also the question of reward versus skill to consider. Even if you only play Ash with other consenting adults, how is it fair that one warframe completely owns almost every mission without challenge or risk while other people have to play much harder to get the same rewards?
• How do you expect to stop being a "poor player" (you said it, not me) and become skilled at the game and all its mechanics, if you don't try? Bladestorm is a crutch that is holding players back from learning how to use the other tools available because it is the "most efficient" choice in most circumstances. It's not like I expect everybody to be a world class twitch aim champion either, there are other easy to use warframes and warframe abilities that are extremely useful to the team...They just don't wipe the map with a single button.

 

21 minutes ago, NN13 said:

Let me guess...Corrosive Projection?

CP is the easiest way, but corrosive status is also a possibility. Or slash status. Or any of the warframe abilities that strip armor (like, for example, Shuriken's augment)

There's lots of ways to deal with armor that nobody is actually encouraged to know or care about so long as Bladestorm simply ignores it and cleans up the map.

Edited August 10, 2016 by Momaw