More Negative Press

[Brendael]

9 minutes ago, MadGrekon said:

Yeah it doesn't take 50 hours to get to jupiter... I know that beginners have it harsh(I was once a beginner too you know). I do not have first hand experience with the new solar system but I imagine it's similar to what it used to be. Which means in 50 hours you should be almost ready to even take on orokin derelict missions not get stuck at jupiter.

Maybe if you can play non-stop but you spend a huge amount of time waiting for other players to play with.

Try selecting a less popular defence/extraction/interception node and see how long it takes for someone else to come along.

 

Or just click around the map and see how many squads show up for these missions. 90% of them say 0 squads and they really mean 0 squads.

And if you haven't tried the new system I suggest creating a new character and trying it (Keeping in mind that a new player doesn't have the experience that you do.)

 

Getting junction/quest rewards that require components that you need to buy in the marketplace is just cynical.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Brendael

[polarity]

Here are some things I hate, in no particular order:

* People who expect to get the same experience found in a $60 Triple A game, in a Free to Play, without spending a penny (or cluelessly throwing cash around, instead of working out what's economical).
* People who expect everything to be explained to them in any kind of game that gets regular updates, which would quickly make any in depth tutorials obsolete, requiring significant dev time to keep them updated, slowing everything else down. MMOs have community sites for a good reason: because crowd sourced guides get updated quickly, and without any requirements from the devs. People who are too dumb to make use of them and end up spending stupidly, or blindly stumbling their way through the game have only themselves to blame, thanks to their ignorance (and game reviewers are the worst at this. 'Going in blind' and refusing to use the resources available to anyone, just makes you look like you're after reasons to complain). 10 seconds on google, and 10 minutes reading a guide will save you hours, if not days of wasted time in the long run.
* People who expect a game to have endless content served up for their immediate, unimpeded consumption, when it is the kind of game that is intended to be played day after day for at most a few hours at a time. Then they call it boring when they've either burned out to unlock a lot, but kept playing it the same way all the time, or haven't unlocked much, and can't imagine anything further being significantly different.

[5HV3N]

 

3 hours ago, Brendael said:

Howl of the Kubrow is the second quest a newbie gets but to build a power core you need resources locked behind over 50 hours of gameplay.

placement of howl of the kubrow quest so early in game and introducing new player to rng threadmil without even informing informing player that egg may or may not drop from a nest is a disgrace. I'm betting that it's one of main offenders in driving away new players, as it almost drove me away as well.

 

 

Amount of whiteknighting in this thread is staggering.
He spent two, maybe three afternoons playing this game, which is more than most people who install warframe give this game. It's perfectly enough to see that game mostly boils down to "wait till timer reaches x and murder everything you see whilst looking majestic" and cook some short review, which he did. How many hours he should play to be allowed to write review that could have chance of being "non-biased, objective, and not filled with misinformation" in eyes of most people in this thread? 50? 100? 500? 3k? Second dream completed? How long getting there would even take for new account without getting carried or gear/mods handout? Not to say that abused teenager with superpowers and mommy issues and white noise instead of memory isn't really a gamechanger in storywriting. It isn't in warframe itself either, it just opens doors to new section to premium shop and yet another layer of grind.

Once you clear jupiter/saturn it's humiliating crawl in under-powered gear based mostly on getting lucky to get some vet randomly clearing node you need to progrss before you get to this point, at least that's how it worked for me year ago. But you know, if you cough some cash there will aways be someone willing to supply you with high ranked mods which you oh so desperately need to be able to carry your own weigh. Because being low mr player with mk-1 gear you aren't going to get those cores and credits to do it yourself, not in any timeframe you'd consider reasonable.  I recently revisited sparring weapons, where I spent lots of time with kogake in my early days. My brutal tide was at rank 2, becasue back then I couldn't afford to rank it up.

And new player won't even have slightest idea how tradechat works to "earn" that plat other way than dropping few bucks, this tool is extremely intimidating and unwelcomig to new player.
Not to say that he won't have anything worth selling. I did get by, by being extremely hardheaded and getting few lucky drops from high void keys (through which I obviously and graciousily got carried, because people were starved for non-endless keys in pre-StoR era, even if hurtful remarks like "would you even be able to solo it?" were taking place) and being guiled to sell them for less than half of their worth back in the day. Now newb doesn't even have that chance, since he actually needs aces to nodes where fissures happen, and it's a long haul before he will be able to make any plat from trading. 

Do f2p game that requires several hundreds hours investment or coughing up some cash to be enjoyable even deserve good press?
Game is rather enjoyable, but wf fandom tends to be in denial about what it is.
At it's core it is fairly standard formula in most of f2p "grindboxes of pain" as I call them ("grind untill you're in enough pain to pay up"), and as such gets medicore press.
Biggest deviation from mainstream is that part of in-game shop (namely stat modifying powerups. Yes, rare and/or time limited mods as well as vaulted or otherwise limited avability gear) is outsourced to players and doesn't promote cutthroat rivalization.

Edited August 11, 2016 by 5HV3N
and all comparision to destiny are perfectly understandable. Steve himself (iirc, mby it was sb else) said about warframe "yes, it's like destiny. But better."

[Slaviar]

This guy points out many of Warframe problems. Though I'm tired of comparing WF to Destiny. Warframe was first, therefore Destiny should be compared to it.

As for people saying there are no cashwalls, that you don't have to spend a dime... Remind yourselves of a time when you were still fresh. When all stuff necessary to progress was locked behind hundreds of plats or dozens of hours of grind. Slots, potatoes, resources, cores, credits, rare mods... Like, really. Think about plat you bought or friend who helped you. I doubt many of you if any at all got to spot you are today without one or both of these things

[Chipputer]

2 hours ago, Tricky5hift said:

Why do any of you people care?

Play the game.

Form your own opinions.

Post em on the forums.

There are numerous reasons to care, the least of which the fact that a negative review can easily drive players away from trying a new game which directly affects the longevity of that game.

This isn't like someone posting that they didn't like Super Mario 3D World, which you buy once and it never changes-- this is a game that is constantly updating and needs to keep a steady flow of new and old players on their servers to keep the cash flow high enough for them to keep running. Uninformed negative reviews are usually cancer for games like this because much of the western market sees the term, "free2play," and immediately heads for the hills if the text following that is even slightly negative.

[Brendael]

15 minutes ago, 5HV3N said:

 

placement of howl of the kubrow quest so early in game and introducing new player to rng threadmil without even informing informing player that egg may or may not drop from a nest is a disgrace. I'm betting that it's one of main offenders in driving away new players, as it almost drove me away as well

I didn't even mind grinding for the egg. It's available from Earth and you can get started. It is the Argon Crystal requirement to craft the power core.

Who thought having an endgame resource which disappears from your inventory after 24 hours as a requirement for the second quest in the game was a good idea?

Yes, it will get new players to spend a few plat but it will turn more players away.

[Chipputer]

2 minutes ago, Brendael said:

Who thought having an endgame resource

With how the void works (and worked in the past), calling Argon any form of "end game" material is laughable, at best. You can reach Baby's First Void Mission by the time you get to Phobos. That's precisely two planets away from Earth, in the new progression. If you consider that "end game" then you need to get your perspective back in check.

[Brendael]

15 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

With how the void works (and worked in the past), calling Argon any form of "end game" material is laughable, at best. You can reach Baby's First Void Mission by the time you get to Phobos. That's precisely two planets away from Earth, in the new progression. If you consider that "end game" then you need to get your perspective back in check.

No, in order to get to the void from Phobos the progression is Earth, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Phobos, void. And the fact that drop rates of Argon in those missions is practically zero. (Never had it drop myself.)

 

The fact that you don't understand the junction prerequisites of the early game just shows how you do not have the perspective to contribute to this discussion.

But hey, I love being told that I am whining for no reason by people who haven't even experienced the new solar system as a beginner.

And once again. I understand I sound negative but despite the criticism I do think it is a great game and I hope that giving feedback as a new player I can help DE improve the new player experience.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2016 by Brendael

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

52 minutes ago, 5HV3N said:

snip

lots of insightful points. tbh you brought up quite some bad memories from being a beginner i didn't even consider while reading the review. (like desperately paying for credit packs with my starter plat... yup.)

[Tizodd]

I don't remember ever actually needing to spend real money in Warframe.  I did spend money though because I wanted what I wanted without waiting/farming.  In other words...I spent money because I was impatient.

DE might make certain changes here and there to encourage supporting their hard work with real money (because they have to eat too)...but the truth is: everything in-game, aside from cosmetics, can be obtained in-game.

[UltimateGrr]

41 minutes ago, Brendael said:

No, in order to get to the void from Phobos the progression is Earth, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Phobos, void. And the fact that drop rates of Argon in those missions is practically zero. (Never had it drop myself.)

This, I think, the only problem with player progression as far as quests go.  When the quest was originally implemented, getting T1 Keys was laughably easy.  Now getting to the Void to farm Argon is a bit harder.  Howl either needs to award you that first power core for free, or DE should change the build requirements for the cores.

[Chipputer]

47 minutes ago, Brendael said:

No, in order to get to the void from Phobos the progression is Earth, Venus, Mercury, Mars, Phobos, void. And the fact that drop rates of Argon in those missions is practically zero. (Never had it drop myself.)

That's 4 planets instead of 2, then. That's still not end-game. Even with newbie weaponry and skills you're not going to be taking ages to get to that point.

Don't give me any sass about not having perspective to participate. I was new to the game once, too, and that was back when I needed keys to enter the void and had exactly zero explanation as to that fact. When I was new I completed every possible mission on the planets I was on in a mostly solo evnironment. It didn't take me nearly as long as people like to pretend it takes them. You're not spending 50 gameplay hours getting to Phobos.

[Brendael]

13 minutes ago, UltimateGrr said:

This, I think, the only problem with player progression as far as quests go.  When the quest was originally implemented, getting T1 Keys was laughably easy.  Now getting to the Void to farm Argon is a bit harder.  Howl either needs to award you that first power core for free, or DE should change the build requirements for the cores.

 

It is not just the Kubrow quest though. One of the early quest rewards is a heat sword blueprint which requires a Neural Sensor.

A new player gets introduced to the infested, gets told that you use fire to effectively fight them, get given the blueprint of a flame sword, sees that they need a neural sensor to craft one, checks the star chart only to see that the first spot they can farm one is Jupiter which is halfway though the solar system.(By which time the heat sword is obsolete anyway.) How many new player are going to see that Neural Sensors are for sale for real money in the marketplace and write the game off as a cheap cynical money grab? Hint : Most of them.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Brendael

[OniDax]

5 hours ago, Chipputer said:

Forgot to add this to my last post but:

The farming IS the game. If you don't enjoy the farming then you don't enjoy the game. Those Corpus you're shooting? What's the ultimate end goal? To get stuff. You turn that stuff into other stuff that you use to farm more stuff which you turn into other stuff that you use to farm more stuff.

It's the same, exact, principle as Monster Hunter.

I play for the gameplay itself. So I do enjoy the gameplay. I don't run around shooting Corpus or Grineer just to get stuff. I run around shooting Corpus and Grineer because I want to run around shooting the Corpus and Grineer. The entire problem with the game is that the devs want acquiring stuff to be the goal. The goal should be to play and enjoy the game. The "stuff" should be the reward for playing the game, not the goal of the game.

And I don't care if that's the exact same principle as another game. This isn't Monster Hunter. Monster Hunter doing that doesn't mean Warframe should do that, and it doesn't mean it's ok for Warframe to do that.

[Xzorn]

1 hour ago, Slaviar said:

This guy points out many of Warframe problems. Though I'm tired of comparing WF to Destiny. Warframe was first, therefore Destiny should be compared to it.

As for people saying there are no cashwalls, that you don't have to spend a dime... Remind yourselves of a time when you were still fresh. When all stuff necessary to progress was locked behind hundreds of plats or dozens of hours of grind. Slots, potatoes, resources, cores, credits, rare mods... Like, really. Think about plat you bought or friend who helped you. I doubt many of you if any at all got to spot you are today without one or both of these things

I've stopped playing this game 3 separate times, 2 of which were for a year. The cash wall thing isn't true, at least no more than any other F2P game.

In fact it's a deal more gracious. This last time I came back I had 1k plat which before I had left was enough to buy Primed Chamber. None of my mods were worth much and there were a ton of new ones to farm in addition to twice the weapon and frame roster. My 1k plat had been reduced to buying 3 prime sets. I had no Primed mods archwing or new companions either.

In 7 months I've gained x30 my plat, I have every Primed mod maxed. 6/10 and 10/10 variants of mods like Blind Rage, every frame, every weapon, MR22, 180 weapon slots, every archwing, every companion, everything in the game but Primed Chamber, which I'll never find worth the price tag.

I had a slight head start each time I came back however nearly 100% the plat I've made was from current content and events. I could make very similar with a new account.  I'm a 100% F2P gamer.

The reviewer is just bad at games where everything isn't hand fed to them and the Anti Trade excuse others are using is BS, it's an MMO, I've never played an MMO where economy didn't play a large role in progression. It's a crucial  part of a proper MMO.

There are plenty of problems in Warframe but the business model is not one of them.

[Sloan441]

It's clear the author never really played the game.

Not sure what else to say other than.../dismiss.

[(PSN)B_Psycho2]

Bottom Line, I can read the title, and see that it's a complete joke.
 

Warframe: The closest thing to PC Destiny.

 

Destiny required DLC (The Taken King) to become a good game. 

 

Anyone who buys the game without the taken king (which can be found for cheep cheep (cheap) prices ) will realize that it is boring until you spend more money. 

Look at the Tower, earth's last city. 

Level 40s, Level 40s everywhere, and you can't get that far. You don't have access to the third (best) subclasses, the best weapons, armor, other gear, 

Missions, etc. 

 

If anything, that is by far the biggest paywall I've ever seen. You have to pay to be good, and guess what? 

Next year, it will happen again, and everyone who bought the Taken King will most likely be burnt out of it, because everyone else who bought the new DLC (which will likely be the price of a whole AAA game) is the only thing that will make Destiny fun again. 

 

I actually have played Destiny when it first came out, it looked like Borderlands, Warframe, etc put together, but it's just what happens when you pour water into milk.

I left the game in about a week at level 12(Exo Titan). Then, a family member bought the Taken King, and it was pretty good. Warframe is still a better game.

 

DE shouldn't be worried about a review from a reviewer who prioritizes waiting for PC destiny over doing his/her job, reviewing the actual game. 

(And rank one redirection. Yeah, I wouldn't be so worried.)

[Guest]

last but not least the writer of the critic isnt aware about that warframe is situated in a "universe" which is around 5 minutes before completely blown up and only the tennos can avoid this madness of decadency of the common races in warframe

just for a few laughs and which "could" change things dramatically =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

i wish deep i get understood here in the right direction ...

i dont need really HD-grass or HD-snow or HD-detailed infested because finally based on the lore of warframe we are walking continously through heavily infested garbage created from grineer, infested, corpus

sometimes im just wondering where the light in warframe comes from ... (^^

i hope this posting is not too intelectual or too adult-minded ... ahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha =)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

and when i move my eyes gently to things like warhammer or other BS out there we are really gifted with warframe

we can wear one of the most shiny cosmetics the gaming industry have ever seen, according to destruction, shooting, killing and whatever more in games for being a HERO or feeling superior ... LMFAO

Edited August 11, 2016 by Guest

[Hopeisdead]

Havent read the review, and dont need to as i already play the game, havent spent a penny, got all the deluxe skins and all frames, exclude ember and excal prime, about 110 weapons 40 or so catalysted, all frames reactored ofc and put at least 1 forma plus exilus adapter in them. 

Havent got a single problem starting and playing the game at all. Jumped in after TB lifestream, watched few other guys who do warframe stuff like Tactical Potato, AGGP, GuidesForUsAll, Brozime, TheFaitKO and thats about that. 

Warframe.market i put stuff there and just switch to online when i go in game. Warframe.builder for build references.

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

I'm going to preface this by saying comparing Warframe to Destiny isn't fair to DE, because they aren't Activision: the oversights in Warframe are more often due to limited man-hours and resources (I imagine) and not pure laziness or executive meddling like Destiny's. But, for a reviewer, you have to review the final product.

The review is not from a Destiny fanboy--but Destiny's criticisms are well known and thus it makes it easy to explain flaws of the game by comparing it to Destiny's similar problems.

Lack of story? This game hasn't even bothered to reintroduce the story from all the events that are passed. Newbies go from Vor to the setup for the second dream with nothing in between to add weight to that event. 95% of missions have literally no story behind them; you just do something to do it, with no type of emotional connection behind it.

Hamster-wheel gameplay? How many survivals have you run? How many do you remember? There are only a few events that led enough of an impression on me that I actually remember them: first interactions with the G3, Stalker, and a few of the early bosses, the Second Dream, the first Infested event, and that's pretty much it. In the best games I've played, there are tons of moments I remember, because those missions and levels feel like more than a means to an end.

Meaningless progression? Warframe isn't so bad in this regard, though the reviewer notes the fun of the frames and weapons. Enemies are the same at every level, with bigger numbers.

As for the paywall complaints, the new player experience explains nothing. Can you blame this reviewer for making the same mistake most newbies do, immediately before they quit? DE still has miles to go before they have a coherent intro for new players, but they continue adding new systems instead of explaining old ones. So while this reviewer should be rightly blamed for not looking enough into the game's systems, DE is still at fault here.

[Slaviar]

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

I've stopped playing this game 3 separate times, 2 of which were for a year. The cash wall thing isn't true, at least no more than any other F2P game.

So, you're one of the few. Congrats. May I ask how many hours of thankless grind it took you to earn necessary stuff? Like slots, potatoes, formas, max rank 10 mods?

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

In 7 months I've gained x30 my plat

Long time to devote to one game

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

The reviewer is just bad at games where everything isn't hand fed to them and the Anti Trade excuse others are using is BS, it's an MMO third person action with MMO elements

Fixed.

I don't think it's about hand feeding. Warframe does terrible job at explaining basic things.

Anti-trade is not BS. Trade is boring, filled with people who don't even know the meaning of word "negotiation".
Beside, new players have little idea about trading. They don't know prices, they don't know what's hot, they don't know people

rarely trade parts for other parts. Back when I was new, if I didn't get plat discount early I'd likely quit, thinking you have to buy everything or grind for hours. And it was two years ago, we only have more grind now

7 hours ago, Xzorn said:

There are plenty of problems in Warframe but the business model is not one of them.

Maybe but presentation to new players is worse than terrible

[.Nin-JA.]

On 8/10/2016 at 11:47 AM, BlackCoMerc said:

Just saw a new article over on Rock, Paper Shotgun about Warframe. Balanced, fair...but in the end, negative.

I won't go into details here. But I urge DE to have a read. The article levels fair and valid criticisms. Much to be learned from it.

It's Rock Paper Shotgun I don't think anyone takes them seriously. I happened to read something they wrote this week about a mod's development being canceled and somehow they managed to do a poor job reporting on even something that simple. 

[(PSN)Stealth_Cobra]

On 2016-08-10 at 3:16 PM, DrBorris said:

"More"? What is the other negative press?

 

And the screenshot of a Inaros build that had a rank 1 Redirection on it was... yeah, there is a lot wrong with that screenshot.

 

Edit: If a reviewer is going to spend a AAA game amount of time on a F2P game they need to spend AAA money on it ($60), they can't expect the instant satisfaction of a AAA game for free. I guess the problem would be that they probably buy foolish things, but at least it would be a bit more accurate. In addition, far too many reviews of F2P games review them only from a free perspective. Not everyone plays F2P for the free part and are willing to spend (reasonable) amounts of money.

Yeah, that LVL 14 Inaros screenshot with unranked mods, Redirection and no aura mods says it all, especially when you factor in the fact that all the screenshots provided are from earth , the starter planet of the game... The reviewer basically played the game for a couple of hours at best and is perhaps not the most well suited to judge the game for it's merits,  flaws and qualities. I'm all for seeing what new players think of the game, but it's hard to take someone that places a shield mod on a frame with no shields seriously.

That said, I believe it's a given he did spend real life money on the game... He sure as hell didn't reach mastery rank 5,  farmed ducats, waited for Baro's biweekly visit and completed the Inaros quests to get his frame..

My guess is he bought Inaros with plat amost immediately after getting his starter frame, leveled him to lvl 15ish, then quit and wrote a review.

And besides, there's the /Unstuck command if a player gets stuck somewhere, although I'll admit it's not something that's advertised anywhere in game, so I don't blame players for not knowing it.

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by (PS4)Stealth_Cobra

[Snowbluff]

On 8/10/2016 at 1:51 PM, aleco247 said:

We are miles ahead of Destiny

You're a funny guy.

[(PSN)VariantX7]

This review is more a symptom of some of the problems of Warframe than actually addressing any problems the game actually has. The reviewer wants to play the game in short bursts, but unfortunately for him, Warframe's reward systems do not reward players very well  who play like that. Im thinking that's due to Warframe's feast or famine loot system. You either get exactly what you need to progress through the game and tackle more challenging content, or you get Ammo Drum #5295.  Because he plays in short bursts, he doesn't progress much , and feels the pressure to spend real money in the marketplace, making him feel as if there's a paywall when there actually isn't one.  There should be something to allow players like him to feel like they're progressing even when you dont get exactly what they want. His criticisms on physics and other gameplay bugs are on point and alot of us have learned to play around the jank that shows up every now and again. The folks here saying he only scratched the surface are absolutely right too, there's no mention of the wider systems the game has to offer.