The Vacuum Within

[inariwan]

Passive Universal Vacuum is a step forward in the right direction.

but It shouldn't be an innate Sentinel and Pets mechanic. It should be an innate Warframe mechanic.

The problem is Kubrows/Kavats horrible PATHING and AI. They get stuck, they run around everywhere.

That would be impossible.

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by inariwan

[Bladereap3r]

10 minutes ago, Nokah said:

Here's the math for anyone curious:

The vacuum effect is a sphere centered on the sentinel.

Previously, the radius was 12m maximum. This means it had an approximate volume of 7,238 units, not counting where this sphere intersected with the floor (it hovers 2m above the floor, jsyk). That range matters, since you can still bullet-jump over pickups and have Carrier suck them in.

Now, the radius is 5m. That means the approximate volume is now 524 units, not accounting (again) for the amount clipping into the floor.

"But Noka, why does it work this way?"

The volume of a sphere involves an exponential increase in area covered, by a power of 3. That's because you aren't just adding a concrete, 1 dimensional addition - you're adding what is basically a cut in 3 directions, and then multiplying that times pi to achieve the sphere.

So, ultimately, the reason this sucks is that it isn't, as your brain tells you, a 50% decrease. When you compare the numbers by dividing 524 by 7,238, you get the number .0732. In other words, the effective percentage is that 524 is 7.32% of 7,238.

It isn't a 50% decrease in area covered, but a 92.68% decrease. That's why this really hurts when compared to Carrier Original Flavor: if you wanted to get rid of the buff, then skim it off and take the hit, devs. But this is a seriously "I want it to look better than it ACTUALLY IS" solution.

 

yeah....i didn't do the math but "Seat of the Pants ingame runs", the new vac felt 'more like' 4 to 5M IMHO...just having to run over pick ups really. #nerf  :(

Edited October 5, 2016 by Bladereap3r

[Lone-Wanderer]

Please bring back the vacuum mod for carrier, it's what made it special and now it's gone. All sentinels now have 6m universal vacuum which is great but nerfing carrier, there's no reason to use it anymore as I see it. It could have atleast retained it's original range. The only thing carrier has is it's survivability and the terrible mod that is Ammo Case which is something I absolutely don't need. I can find ammo anywhere and always have full ammo without it. I don't see the need to have done this to carrier.What good is it for now? :(

Edited October 6, 2016 by Lone-Wanderer

[Manticore84]

2 minutes ago, Silvanous said:

Nice I for one like not just using Carrier all the time, it woul be nice to use the wide range of sentinals ive got now instead of carrier 24/7. hopefully this goes to Kubrows/Kavats soon as well would make people use them more often.

u should use kubrows / kavats right now then cause the 6 m is not different from normal pickup

[BulletsforTeeth]

I like this update, a lot. Vacuum is now a sentinal passive, and the range has been reduced, so it doesn't instantly eat every orb or ammo pickup the moment you lose 2 of anything.

All the salt threads tho, hohoho dis gun b GUD

[GKDK]

My confidence in DE never fails. Thanks for the update!

[TheSteelRat]

2 hours ago, DeFragMe said:

i just love this vaccum sentinel gif...

 

new vaccum weapon incoming? i think i also saw a megaphone in there.

One of the Dev's already found her Vaccum within before everyone else

 

Could we at least get a Mod that INCREASES the vaccuum range?

Edited October 5, 2016 by -CM-Kinnison

[BulletsforTeeth]

14 minutes ago, Nokah said:

Here's the math for anyone curious:

The vacuum effect is a sphere centered on the sentinel.

Previously, the radius was 12m maximum. This means it had an approximate volume of 7,238 units, not counting where this sphere intersected with the floor (it hovers 2m above the floor, jsyk). That range matters, since you can still bullet-jump over pickups and have Carrier suck them in.

Now, the radius is 5m. That means the approximate volume is now 524 units, not accounting (again) for the amount clipping into the floor.

"But Noka, why does it work this way?"

The volume of a sphere involves an exponential increase in area covered, by a power of 3. That's because you aren't just adding a concrete, 1 dimensional addition - you're adding what is basically a cut in 3 directions, and then multiplying that times pi to achieve the sphere.

So, ultimately, the reason this sucks is that it isn't, as your brain tells you, a 50% decrease. When you compare the numbers by dividing 524 by 7,238, you get the number .0732. In other words, the effective percentage is that 524 is 7.32% of 7,238.

It isn't a 50% decrease in area covered, but a 92.68% decrease. That's why this really hurts when compared to Carrier Original Flavor: if you wanted to get rid of the buff, then skim it off and take the hit, devs. But this is a seriously "I want it to look better than it ACTUALLY IS" solution.

 

I had not taken this into account. I was actually  undestanding vacuum as a cylidrical effect in nature. With the way spheres work, a range of roughly 10 would've been sufficient to knock down the range without such a drastic change, really. Though, whether or not we're talking in radius or diameter means a lot, if we're talking diameter, then we 'only' lost 6 meters. If we're talking radius, we lost twice that.

[GStonez]

3 hours ago, Inkogni said:

Praise Deathcube!!!
Great update about the sentinels and its not the final fix/update to it.

Any chance the vacuum could be moved from sentinels to warframes so we don't feel like we are doing it wrong when playing with a kubrow/kavat or without any companion ? 

Clem!

or once there is no companion equipped you get a passive vacuum that seems cool

[Manticore84]

5 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

I like this update, a lot. Vacuum is now a sentinal passive, and the range has been reduced, so it doesn't instantly eat every orb or ammo pickup the moment you lose 2 of anything.

i have ur solution for u... dont equip a vacuum mod and u could have saved us a valuable text space

[Bobveela]

2 hours ago, Inkogni said:

Praise Deathcube!!!
Great update about the sentinels and its not the final fix/update to it.

Any chance the vacuum could be moved from sentinels to warframes so we don't feel like we are doing it wrong when playing with a kubrow/kavat or without any companion ? 

Clem!

^This, it kinda sucks enough that kavat and kubrows require maintenance.  I know this might force a rework on the one kubrow who grabs stuff but it would make more sense.

[Geraion]

Gotta be honest and say I don't gove a hoot about the sentinels. They're annoying and in the way, taking up screen space, and I'd much, MUCH rather use one of my kitties/doggies, or nothing at all...

 

And still not fix to Dryad skin on Rakta Cernos... :c /huff

[morningstar999]

well that makes carrier useless -the ammo thing seems a bit of a rubbish replacement. 

Not sure if the 'the vacuum within' is DE making a joke at themselves about all the hassle all over the war within or just kinda a bit of an insult or jab to players who have been dying for TWW to come out. 

 

Poor kubrows still no love :( 

Edited October 5, 2016 by morningstar999

[SP3CT3R7]

3 minutes ago, Babellon said:

Theyre  going to complain DE, Alot, because they have to walk a few extra steps to pick up loot. They're going to ignore the versitility it brings, the choices it allows. Please don't listen to them DE...Please.

Vacuum is working great. I personally see almost no difference at all in picking up loot around me. My first test was with helios, I had scans, loot craates marked on radar, and pickups around me. I would perhaps concede 8m instead of 6m, How ever that's more a comprimise not a requirement. It's wonderful, and I hope you won't change anything at all.

You may not, but for people who use stand still abilities for Warframes like Mesa, Chroma (sometimes) or Trinity (just to name a few) The 12m radius of pickup was a great life saver, meaning that pesky parasicitc enemy wouldn't steal all my energy just from one EV, and the surrounding energy would refil my energy so I can bless my squad. So it may not be noticeable to you, but it is to us.

Second of all, the range WAS NOT cut down to 1/2, the clever people to check the math behind it proved that it is about 1/4 of the original area (technically volume? IDK). Either way, there is a mathematical error that needs to be fixed, and not a random "grammatical error" that you so joked about. 

Third and last, I don't like the fact that you joked with the update/hotfix name DE. I see you are trying to keep the community going happy and not on edge for that WW wait, but it isn't helping when the update took it to lengths so bad that we flat out hate it. Sure, we get a new ammo drum not on our weapons, but when the new update releases, the job of the critics isn't to praise all the "amazing" things you did, but to tell you what needs fixing. So I'd appreciate you not making fun of the situation and actually paying attention to what the community wants, and not twist our words and expect us to be happy, when we aren't.

Aside from the actual updates, I'd like to say something about the players on the forum :

Please don't consider our reviews "irrelevant" and not useful to DE just because you want us to stop complaing about the update and live with it. Truthfully, please do leave, because for every update/hotfix there can always be something done more right, and that is what we are here to complain about. We are not just going to let a new hotfix include something we didn't completely agree too, its like when the King passed those laws that no one liked, and everyone in America tried to get that changed, although it didn't work. So please, take heed to what we are saying, and at least come up with something where the players and DE agree on a point, and then add it in, and not just blindly adding it in because you think we need it or agreed to it.

[AZAG0TH]

I have no idea why DE felt the need to nerf vacuum.  They made a fast-paced game and that is what I enjoy playing.  Played a few missions with the new vacuum and it just sucks the fun and momentum out of everything.  Now I'm running around in circles picking things up in survival missions.. yay? :sigh:  I mean it was obvious that they wanted to nerf it when the whole 3 mods thing came out - but they never gave any kind of reason for it.

Please just raise the radius back up to what it was and put it in every warframe already.  

No need for 'data' on sentinels or other companions if vacuum is a universal warframe ability.

All that said, I do like/appreciate the new carrier precept... but it in no way makes up for the loss of 10-12m pickups.  This is getting depressing.

 

Edit: With all the talk lately about 'quality of life improvements'  I really can't wrap head around this at all.  Maybe i'll just watch netflix tonight after all.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AZAG0TH

[BulletsforTeeth]

2 minutes ago, morningstar999 said:

well that makes carrier useless -the ammo thing seems a bit of a rubbish replacement. 

Not sure if the 'the vacuum within' is DE making a joke at themselves about all the hassle all over the war within or just kinda a bit of an insult or jab to players who have been dying for TWW to come out. 

 

Poor kubrows still no love :( 

With a little luck, the specific numbers will be adjusted in coming hotfixes to balance things out. This new carrier precept has a lot of potential to be sure.

I'm pretty sure it's an inside joke, I believe it was jokingly coined in a stream.

[Mu_Gera]

I mean, at least the range is better than nothing, I guess, and now we have a free ammo mutation.

But consider this, what about making vacuum a universal frame passive?

[Wolfdoggie]

So I guess if I keep using Carrier forever Vacuum will be fixed to original range and move to Kavats/Kubrows/Warframe hopefully.

[Tau.]

In all of this complaining all I see is those that had yet to see the light and make the conversion to pets : ^)

0/10 would not mourn. 

[Manticore84]

5 minutes ago, SpaceBad said:

In all of this complaining all I see is those that had yet to see the light and make the conversion to pets : ^)

0/10 would not mourn. 

i already read posts of ppl who said they tryed multiple times with alot of forma on their pets but always fell back to vacuum +1 for me

Edited October 6, 2016 by Manticore84

[SineSole]

I have yet to sign in yet but here is my feedback based off of reading:

Universal vacuum
Very good idea, carrier and carrier prime aren't even my most used sentinels (believe it or not it's diriga) so I wasn't greatly affected. Reducing it to 6m also seems like a good idea, now that each sentinel has it we cannot have it being 12m. I've never found any difficult with picking up loot anyways.

Djinn skin
[De] I just wanted to say, thank you so much for this. As one of my favorite sentinels (2nd most used) djinn has been in a fun position. Seeing it used by others seems like a rarity, and now that it's October I've dedicated myself to using djinn for the entire month...excluding spy missions. Now that we have a pre infestation djinn this could open an opportunity to having a djinn prime.

 

[morningstar999]

7 minutes ago, BulletsforTeeth said:

I'm pretty sure it's an inside joke, I believe it was jokingly coined in a stream.

with all the anger and disappointment going about over the war within it feels in bad taste. 

if they don't let us have it on cats/dogs being able to take a carrier and a pet would make everyone happy/be amazing.  

[CrazyCatLad]

Oh, so this is the Braton Prime buff all over again.

Tenno: Buff the weak-arse Braton Prime please!

Forever later...

DE: SURE, why didn't you say so? Oh, less ammo though. Ha.

[BulletsforTeeth]

Just now, morningstar999 said:

with all the anger and disappointment going about over the war within it feels in bad taste. 

if they don't let us have it on cats/dogs being able to take a carrier and a pet would make everyone happy/be amazing.  

Perhaps, but at the same time, they aren't perfect. If a single joke, if in bad taste, helps them get through and release TWW, I'm game.

It would, and maybe someday it'll happen, but I doubt it'll be soon, as that's a change to both the UI and the companion system overall.

[Onokosha]

Really glad that they finally made sentinels with a universal vacuum. It could use a larger pick up range closer to the old vacuum but for now, thanks for the answering the community's request. 

Also loving the new Djinn skin.