The Vacuum Within: Universal Vacuum Feedback

[Azrael]

1 hour ago, Azrael said:

I have, however, seen plenty of hostility, toxicity, flamebaiting, and outright ignoring what people actually said.

 

1 hour ago, Azrael said:

But I'm sure you'll say some weak obvious excuse like "I wasn't directing it at the person I was talking to, I was directing it at imaginary people instead,"

After I wrote this, I realized that my own comment may be taken in the same way, So I just wanted to be clear to @RikerWatts, I wasn't referring to you specifically regarding hositility, etc. I was talking about what I'd seen in the thread as a whole. I thought that would be clear, but I realized it may not be. So if you took it that way, sorry, that wasn't what I meant, Just throwing this out there before any drama has a chance to start.  :)

[VocalMagic]

9 minutes ago, BattledOne said:

Vaccums is 3D, that 1.5 almost doubles ur volume.

This would allow us to bullet glide over loot, but all vertical looting distance above you is irrelevant now, as you need line of sight to obtain loot.
The only parameter that makes a difference is the radius, and even then only to the sides, as people will keep moving as they obtain their loot.

Seeing as loot will settle to the ground, I may use text as a visual representation.

This is the path 6m will cut across the ground, picking up loot.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo
This is 7.5
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

This is what we want
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )
(   )

A Wider path cut through the loot means less zig-zagging through the map for mods, and reduces the chance of aiming too far left or right for a bullet jump in an attempt to go by it without either A) deviating from play or B) Picking up multiple things at once.

The main use of Vacuum has always been to keep playing rather than stopping your game to loot, and this is why a wider radius is favorable.

Edited October 6, 2016 by VocalMagic

[Vali]

3 hours ago, TermiteFrame said:

Yeah its super niche.

I wouldn't consider something which 80% of the player base uses as 'niche'.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Agentawesome

[Akimbo]

10 hours ago, (PS4)Silverback73 said:

Ammo mutation is nice...but a +range mod for Vacuum...yes? 

Or would it simply relegate non-carriers to storage (again?)

No, because then I'd just use Carrier 100% of the time again. For now I'm just not playing Warframe at all. Nothing to do on it anyway and now looting is even more of a chore than before...why bother?

 

How about DE just fix this mess and give Vacuum its proper reach? Not difficult.

[alfaomega04]

After playing about 20-30 missions, the gameplay does feel slower. More often than I'd like, I had to go out of my way and get REALLY close to whatever I need to pick up or else the vacuum would miss it. 

While I get that the use for carrier was completely lopsided, at least leave the original vacuum mod for carrier and let players decide if they rather use the other sentinels with smaller vacuum radius or the normal radius carrier used to have. Honestly, I'm glad this was addressed since now my three carriers can take a break, but the way it was implemented negatively affected the flow of the game. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by alfaomega04
grammar

[AperoBeltaTwo]

20 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

I have seen that quote Farcry pleb XD anyways its Boring if you only do it for the mastery if you do it for the fun to have with friends and max your weapons also while mastery leveling weapons is also nice, I gotta say I mostly have had every weapon and most of them are pretty unique and well made, not all of them fit my playstyle but hey I like the diversity.
And new content gives me something to do and well TBH if it rewards positively why should you not engage in the game and play more? I don't know what this whine about mastery rank is because it is a system that rewards people that play longer and do more, if you don't want this don't do it but consider the downside of it.
In my eyes perfectly fine if you do something like this it gives people goals and well if you want to stay on MR 14 you already benefit of the additional range.
And Consider that MR 14 is not that hard to achieve.
Its the same as for me with the mastery that helps with modding for your frames weapons and much more I love it that I spent a lot of time in the game to do that and have the benefit of it.

just saying if you don't want to spend time for it well thats your choice and it does not make mastery rank rewards bad it makes them good in the sense that people play the game more because they get goals and rewards for that.

 I agree that mastery system gives a certain sense of progression.
 My personal issue with it is that there's legitimately no other effective way to achieve higher MR except farming the same mission for exp with unranked weapons over and over again. There's just no gameplay behind the whole process. We get sim missions when we rank up and that's it. Otherwise you are supposed to use the gear you intend to max in missions - there's just no specific game mechanic for maxing stuff. But the problem of that is that to get exp you have to use the gear you want to max (instead of your other better weapons) or rely on other people to max it for you to the point where the less damage you deal in the mission the more exp you get, so basically the exp system itself encourages passive gameplay. It's a loop and that's why a lot of people didn't like going past mr12 (or mr13 now with tigris and galatine P).

20 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

all that effort has to result in something right?

Chao, The Roaring Lion

 My issue is exactly that it takes an awful lot of time and isn't really worth it. That's another reason why I suggested vacuum range increase with mastery - cause it will be at least something. Even tho I believe what we really need is a proper endgame tied with mastery rank (and no, not limiting Trial entrance with mastery rank). Maybe some starchart reward-difficulty progression system that ties in with the mastery rank.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo

[SamuraiPizza]

36 minutes ago, Stonehenge said:

-snip-

 

Stonehenge, I've been following your posts for a while now, but despite the few good points you make (regarding the Gazal, etc) I'm sorry to say that almost everything you said about the Vacuum nerf is basically the "git gud" equivalent in a QoL sense.

I HAVE tested the new vacuum in game, and I'm not happy. Here's what happened. I ended up getting grouped with a bunch of MR18+ players who wiped the map and headed to extraction (I guess they were farming for syndicate rep) and I was stuck running around picking up loot (I was looking for polymer bundles). The mission timed out and autoextracted me and I missed a few drops a couple yards away. I was not happy.

What people are upset about is that they feel like they've been punished for asking for a universal vacuum. I will echo that sentiment, since there is no ACTUAL reason to nerf the range down to HALF of it. I understand nerfs like Excal's 4 and stuff, it was game breaking in a way, but this vacuum thing was just making the grind a little less unbearable. The nerf actually seems a little spiteful, as Nariala put it.

I'm hoping you don't reply to this in an aggressive/passive aggressive manner, but real talk man: your argument is basically "git gud." Not a very strong argument. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Legion216
EDIT: grammar

[AperoBeltaTwo]

20 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

12 meters ground pickup range.

I believe it was a 12m radius sphere around the sentinel. That would make the final ground pickup range a bit smaller than 12m since the sentinel is flying over the warframe's head. 10-11m~ish probably safe to say.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo

[Nep_Blanc]

1 minute ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

 I agree that mastery system gives a certain sense of progression.
 My personal issue with it is that there's legitimately no other effective way to achieve higher MR except farming the same mission for exp with unranked weapons over and over again. There's just no gameplay behind the whole process. We get sim missions when we rank up and that's it. Otherwise you are supposed to use the gear you intend to max in missions - there's just no specific game mechanic for maxing stuff. But the problem of that is that to get exp you have to use the gear you want to max (instead of your other better weapons) or rely on other people to max it for you to the point where the less damage you deal in the mission the more exp you get, so basically the exp system itself encourages passive gameplay. It's a loop and that's why a lot of people didn't like going past mr12 (or mr13 now with tigris and galatine P).

 My issue is exactly that it takes an awful lot of time and isn't really worth it. That's another reason why I suggested vacuum range increase with mastery - cause it will be at least something. Even tho I believe what we really need is a proper endgame tied with mastery rank (and no, not limiting Trial entrance with mastery rank). Maybe some starchart reward-difficulty progression system that ties with the mastery rank.

I agree with the fact that the weapon leveling system is a pain in the butt butt for players that do not have as high mastery ranks.
but most of the time Friends can help and prolong your stay with Warframe effectively shortening your XP grind.
Borderlands has a system if your hero is below the others level of their heroes you get more XP multipliers based on what they do and they have a shared XP rewarding system, so you can do nothing or engage.
And TBH this system makes it also pretty interesting.

Chao, The Roaring Lion
 

[Nep_Blanc]

3 minutes ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

I believe it was a 12m radius sphere around the sentinel. That would make the final ground pickup range a bit smaller than 12m since the sentinel is flying over the warframe's head. 10-11m~ish probably safe to say.

yes but based on my calculations its not even close to 10 meters. its logic man and factual. but like I said I could have made a calculation error and I am still not sure about it either.

Chao, The Roaring Lion

Edited October 6, 2016 by TheRoaringLion

[Tizodd]

I've been saying the same for a while now but for some odd reason [DE] seems hell-bent on linking area looting to sentinels.

I would love it if someone from [DE] would fill us in on their logic.  I don't know why they're so against adding area looting to frames.  That way, players would be free to use any companion (including kubrows and kavats), or no companion at all, and not have to be worried about missing loot or getting low on ammo.

[alfaomega04]

16 hours ago, Shockwave- said:

 

They COULD have not changed carrier. they could have given ALL sentinels 5m vacuum ranges, and given Carrier a mod that increases vacuum by 7m. Then they could have let it play out for 6 months and seen how many people STILL chose carrier over the other sentinels.

This.

I'm afraid DE will look at the percentages and will absolutely find that the distribution of sentinel use will be fairly balanced and call the change a success. When in reality, we the players, had other choice since the reason for using carrier was removed. The only way the percentages could show the true skew of what the players actually preferred would be if carrier kept its original range while the other sentinels could have the 5m vacuum added.

[Aurruxco]

There is for me... I use amprex for my electric chroma and an additional mod would really benefit my Amprex... right now I'm just using chesa kubrow for my electric chroma so that they get disarmed and be forced to melee me.

Also made my Ice Chroma with Daikyu slightly better again because i get to put another mod replacing arrow mutation. The ice helps the Carrier or any sentinel longer because of the projectile deflection.. 

Try using carrier with ammo hungry weapons.

[AperoBeltaTwo]

1 minute ago, TheRoaringLion said:

yes but based on my calculations its not even close to 10 meters. its logic man and factual.

still was way better than what we have now T_T And really do remember picking up marked items from 12m range.

4 minutes ago, TheRoaringLion said:

but most of the time Friends can help and prolong your stay with Warframe effectively shortening your XP grind.

You gonna laugh at me, my dojo's name is "All my friends" and I have like 3 other people in it and they don't play the game anymore. Still random people kept helping me a lot and I had a lot of fun with those people. But they tend not to play the game anymore as well. People leave warframe cause there's just nothing to do here. It happens with all pve games I suppose, but still doesn't make it less sad.

 

[Nep_Blanc]

Just now, AperoBeltaTwo said:

still was way better than what we have now T_T And really do remember picking up marked items from 12m range.

You gonna laugh at me, my dojo's name is "All my friends" and I have like 3 other people in it and they don't play the game anymore. Still random people kept helping me a lot and I had a lot of fun with those people. But they tend not to play the game anymore as well. People leave warframe cause there's just nothing to do here. It happens with all pve games I suppose, but still doesn't make it less sad.

 

make it more rewarding and interesting and the whole mastery whine is dune, also I can't change that your friends got fed up with the game.
Chao, The Roaring Lion

[AperoBeltaTwo]

7 minutes ago, Tizodd said:

I've been saying the same for a while now but for some odd reason [DE] seems hell-bent on linking area looting to sentinels.

I would love it if someone from [DE] would fill us in on their logic.  I don't know why they're so against adding area looting to frames.  That way, players would be free to use any companion (including kubrows and kavats), or no companion at all, and not have to be worried about missing loot or getting low on ammo.

Ye would be nice to know the mindset behind these decisions. Dev 81 is coming today, right? Maybe we'll get an insight.

Edited October 6, 2016 by AperoBeltaTwo

[kuchn]

careful with the word "cashcow".... most ppl here don't now the BCG-Matrix and will take offense =)

[SirWolfen]

You can't make an argument only through range. People have been asking for universal vacuum and even though pets are also still on the table I'm hoping they get something else. Everything comes at a price since vacuum is no longer on 1 sentinel they needed to drop that range a bit. Do I think 6m was good ehhh I only used carrier in endless missions because that's where loot/ammo actually mattered so it never bothered me or has bothered. The 5m gif steve showed looked fine to me but people will complain regardless. One thing I will say though is that I'll now probably be using carrier p a bit more due to ammo case. 

[Nep_Blanc]

and UPS I made a signature mistake XD I can redo the calculations because they are valid as calculated but not valid as I visually implemented them.

2 meters is a constant for all the sentinels.

B is Always 2 and 2²=4
A is always Radius of Ground pickup range.

C is full pickup range

Well gonna get your ranges here:

Pre: 11.8 meters and this is roundable to 12 so the ol range is correct.

Post: 5.6 meters so the average pickup range is correct also it seems that polling rate is not really optimal.

but it is still a 50% reduce of pickup range.

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by TheRoaringLion

[-CCC-Secret]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

Personally, I thought vacuum sucked.

...

Spoiler

 

[Hypernaut1]

It's not a big deal honestly. I was in love with vacuum too, until I stopped using it. Turns out, I didn't really need it and my effectiveness was pretty much the same, and it didn't require much more effort

[Xekrin]

2 hours ago, Waxil said:

Mission accomplished.

Do you think Moderators are just joking around when they say do not repost deleted/locked content?  

[----Fenrir----]

15 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

Update: Maybe increase the range of this inbuild warframe\aw vacuum with Mastery rank. (up for debate)
For example: Default at MR1 vacuum range 10m. After MR 10 you will start gaining +1m vacuum range per rank so at mr12 for example you'll have 12m vacuum radius.

That idea sounds amazing! Having a 21m vacuum range (I'm MR21) would be really sweet!

[Genji]

7 hours ago, AperoBeltaTwo said:

By reading comments in MULTIPLE threads created since yesterday I can summarize two things: 
1) There are people (absolute minority) who didn't use the carrier that often (and probably didn't play that often either) and are now telling 89% of carrier users to "git gud" at picking up tiny loot bundles (as if it adds anything positive to the gameplay).
2) The rest of warframe's player base just wants 12m back and the delay gone. 89% of people don't want this 6 meters nonsense because in no way shape or form it adds anything to the fun of the game. It's an outdated game mechanic - anachronism from the slow-paced 80s games which has no place in a fast-paced game like Warframe.

We really need a voice of reason at DE who'd see this & realize that this need to change.  

 

Sayrn rework, Mag Rework, From Nekros' 3rd & 4th abilities regarding duration & rolling zilch on desecrate, to Archwing Movement (especially the nightmare it is on Corpus maps) to Silva & Aegis, to this. 

 

I'm afraid to ask for anything now because just when we think we'll get what we all expect, it'll be a watered down offering, followed by a nerf & the massive amounts of feedback on the change will fall on deaf ears. 

I uninstalled the game just to back away for a bit, reflect.   

The DE that was here for the Frost rework, Excal rework, Core-Endo rework, Supra buff, the Supra buff marked one of my happiest moments in the community, minus the time it took to finally happen: 10 out of 10 delivery.

I want that DE back. 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Genjinaro
Edit, repeated myself.

[----Fenrir----]

12 hours ago, ComCray said:

Can some moderator(s) please put in some effort and consolidate the gazillion vacuum posts in general feedback?

Impossible, after the vacuum nerf that would take too much effort with the now much smaller range^^