Nerfing Telos Boltace

[Zedvick_the_Defiant]

On 10/21/2016 at 8:51 AM, BeeOverlord said:

 

I was scrolling to find the usual "oh no iz not nerf hurr durr" replies. I was not disappointed. 

On a different note, this reply made me lose it. I mean smokes coming from my nose by that chuckle. Good thing my friend invested in this. At first I was like. "Bruh whips are stupid, why u using that". Now I see the light. 

But seriously guys.

>PvE
>Balancing

Hehe. Good one.

It was fun while it lasted. Made me remember my copter days where it was essential to copter 80% of the mission. But seeing both points, it does make sense that the spin effect only works when held. Well all syndicate melee do only take their syndicate effect when held so its not that bad actually. It's just not that fun anymore when you need to switch. At first you can be a beyblade-bullet-shooting-badass but now you're just a beyblade. Boooo.

[PerishedFraud]

20 minutes ago, Zedvick_the_Defiant said:

On a different note, this reply made me lose it. I mean smokes coming from my nose by that chuckle. Good thing my friend invested in this. At first I was like. "Bruh whips are stupid, why u using that". Now I see the light. 

 

I have no idea where this is from, it just looked like a cool response

[DarcnyssWolfe]

2 hours ago, BeeOverlord said:

 

 

  Hide contents

I have no idea where this is from, it just looked like a cool response

 

Sebastian of black butler. Good anime.

Meanwhile as for the topic at hand, might as well use any heavy blade with cleaving if you're going to equip the weapon, no better defence than insta-gib offence in 360 degrees.

[Ziden_]

On 10/24/2016 at 7:35 PM, Zedvick_the_Defiant said:

I was scrolling to find the usual "oh no iz not nerf hurr durr" replies. I was not disappointed. 

On a different note, this reply made me lose it. I mean smokes coming from my nose by that chuckle. Good thing my friend invested in this. At first I was like. "Bruh whips are stupid, why u using that". Now I see the light. 

But seriously guys.

>PvE
>Balancing

Hehe. Good one.

It was fun while it lasted. Made me remember my copter days where it was essential to copter 80% of the mission. But seeing both points, it does make sense that the spin effect only works when held. Well all syndicate melee do only take their syndicate effect when held so its not that bad actually. It's just not that fun anymore when you need to switch. At first you can be a beyblade-bullet-shooting-badass but now you're just a beyblade. Boooo.

I just got the Galatine Prime, tossed a potato in it, leveled it to 30, and went "wow... and people think the Telos Boltace is O.P.?"  Then I leveled up my Nikana Prime and had a similar reaction.  It's pretty hilarious how powerful some of the weaponry in this game.  I believe the forum people get a pack mindset and just follow the nerf-train on whatever their Nerf of the Month item is.

[Chipputer]

26 minutes ago, Ziden_ said:

I just got the Galatine Prime, tossed a potato in it, leveled it to 30, and went "wow... and people think the Telos Boltace is O.P.?"

Congratulations. You found out the Galatine Prime is ridiculously powerful.

Did you also find out that the Telos Boltace are just as bad, making neither any more or less overpowered than the other? The T.Boltace can still destroy bombard rockets and sapping osprey mines from a large distance away, something the Galatine Prime cannot do. You can still equip it and spin attack through any of the content in the game for long periods of time, simply diverting toward any high-value threats and hitting them directly with the weapon, itself, to take them out faster. That mobility keeps you alive so much better than simply swinging away with a giant sword or katana does. Putting CC or Gas damage on the T.Boltace still allows you to control or AoE bomb entire areas simply by spinning through the pack, remaining mobile and safe the entire time.

One thing being a problem doesn't make something else any less of a problem.

[tnccs215]

On 10/25/2016 at 1:35 AM, Zedvick_the_Defiant said:

I was scrolling to find the usual "oh no iz not nerf hurr durr" replies. I was not disappointed. 

On a different note, this reply made me lose it. I mean smokes coming from my nose by that chuckle. Good thing my friend invested in this. At first I was like. "Bruh whips are stupid, why u using that". Now I see the light. 

But seriously guys.

>PvE
>Balancing

Hehe. Good one.
 

Dark Souls 3 recently got an hotfix that reduced an item spell buff from 25% to 12.5%.

Now, Dark Souls is also a single player, cash upfront game.

It's also a very, very acclaimed series, both by critics and by the public.

And yet, it is PvE. And they make the effort to reduce something from a measly 25% to 12.5%. 

You know why? Because experience, that's why. Because enjoyment comes from feeling that a challenge was overcome. And so, having overpowered weapons really, really doesn't work well for the game. Because, sooner or later, when the power fantasy dies down (and it tends to do so prett quickly), people will find the game boring, and leave.

I mean, sure, you can say "it's Dark Souls! it's meant to be hard!" and it's true. But I don't know of a game that has no faet of a challenge. Even Dinasty Warriors, a game that was actually built from the ground up to have you fight against millions of goons at a time, still actually challenges you in one way or another, and rewards your efforts. Warframe? Not anymore.

Of course, it goes beyond this. This is a free2play game. It must have a fine tune of effort/reward, otherwise stuff will get too easy to get, and money will stop poring in (not to mention players leaving out of boredom). This specially considering the fact that it is online, and the efforts of some affect the outcome of others.

If balance was that irrelevant, nullifiers wouldn't have been introduced. Nor comba. Nor Scrambus. Nor Bursas.

But hey, let's pretend a game can spiral down to a cheese fest and it will have no problems.

I mean, what is even an experience, right?  

Edited November 3, 2016 by tnccs215

[Azrael]

44 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

You can still equip it and spin attack through any of the content in the game for long periods of time, simply diverting toward any high-value threats and hitting them directly with the weapon, itself, to take them out faster.

I have a friend who has like 750 hours in the game, and more than half of his kills are with the Telos Boltace. He actually told me that he hopes it gets nerfed, because he feels like it's become an addictive crutch. He feels like he can't stop using it, because it's so easy. It's just easy mode - regardless of frame - for any mid-level mission or even sorties, and that's 99% of the missions most people play. The galatine is more powerful in very high-level content, but doesn't come with the mobility. Besides, how often do you fight level 200 enemies, compared to how often you do fissure missions or sorties or hieracon?

[tnccs215]

5 minutes ago, Azrael said:

I have a friend who has like 750 hours in the game, and more than half of his kills are with the Telos Boltace. He actually told me that he hopes it gets nerfed, because he feels like it's become an addictive crutch. He feels like he can't stop using it, because it's so easy. It's just easy mode - regardless of frame - for any mid-level mission or even sorties, and that's 99% of the missions most people play. The galatine is more powerful in very high-level content, but doesn't come with the mobility. Besides, how often do you fight level 200 enemies, compared to how often you do fissure missions or sorties or hieracon?

I can't believe they've overcome all the kills made so far n less than a month.

That's terrifyingly insane.

But it won't get nerfed. Else you'll make the power fantasy creeps cry, and DE already made it clear they don't want that happening.

Edited November 3, 2016 by tnccs215
very good english

[Chipputer]

3 minutes ago, Azrael said:

he feels like it's become an addictive crutch.

This is specifically why I only use it to hunt syndicate medallions. As soon as I do a non-syndicate mission or I join a party I take them off.

I also only use the Atterax (AKA: The Slash Monster) when I'm doing inconsequential content and usually try to only use that solo, as well, but will occasionally take only an Atterax into a high level fissure.

[tnccs215]

Just now, Chipputer said:

 

I also only use the Atterax (AKA: The Slash Monster) when I'm doing inconsequential content

So, the entirety of the game?

Im being sarcastic, but yeah... Warframe kinda has a really big problem in giving people reasons to play. Rewards aren't good and nothing feels meaningful

[Chipputer]

1 minute ago, tnccs215 said:

So, the entirety of the game?

[tnccs215]

oh, and an addendum:

Cheese is not a playstyle

A game that rewards a player that uses complex and skillful ways to play exactly the same (or worse!) that it rewards a player that takes the easy route out is a terribly poorly designed game.

Or, even worse: A game whose high level equipment has no actual match, therefore forcing players to gimp themselves if they want to feel challenged, is also a poorly designed game.

If you like powerfantasies, that's fine. But you shouldn't expect getting the same rewards as someone who actually wants and tries a challenge. And so, seeing high level cheese as acceptable is simply excusing poor design.

If one wants to cheese, they should be reduced to under leveled content.

But hey, suppose Im being oh so mean for expecting a bit of realization when I play.

[Azrael]

19 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

I can't believe they've overcome all the kills made so far n less than a month.

That's terrifyingly insane.

But it won't get nerfed. Else you'll make the power fantasy creeps cry, and DE already made it clear they don't want that happening.

Oops! I thought that seemed weird too, so I checked. It seems I misunderstood him when he was talking about it. My bad.

What's actually going on is this: his most-used weapon is the tonkor. In 523 hours (wow, my memory was REALLY far off, here) he has made 48,162 kills with it. Next is the Sobek with 29,635 kills. But with the Telos Boltace he has 62,849 kills. So in the time since the weapon came out he's made more kills than he's made with the tonkor in all the time he's been playing, and the tonkor is 21% of his playtime. That's still pretty bad, catching up to and exceeding his most used weapon in so short a time. It shows that he's become totally dependent on it, which he has actually said.

Sorry about the misinformation, I just remembered wrong or misheard or something.

[Vox_Preliator]

On 11/2/2016 at 7:56 PM, tnccs215 said:

If you like powerfantasies, that's fine. But you shouldn't expect getting the same rewards as someone who actually wants and tries a challenge. And so, seeing high level cheese as acceptable is simply excusing poor design.

If one wants to cheese, they should be reduced to under leveled content.

I still get confused when people refuse this.  Why?  What possible reason is there to not have a risk/reward ratio that makes some sort of sense?  If you want to be a walking natural disaster, that's still there.  If you want to get shiny things, that's still there.  If you want both, don't expect it to just be handed to you on a silver platter.

[Brynslustafir]

I kinda thought we were done with coptering but then we receive a legit powerful weapon that only shows its full potential when coptering. 

I don't understand that from a design standpoint, but I'm not here just to judge. 

Can't say I 100% agree with the nerf. The weapon was a little bit ridiculous, but now it has little reason to exist besides mastery points. The same is true for a number of syndicate melee weapons, actually.

I'm honestly more upset that Synoid Heliocor is still trash than I am about the Telos Boltace nerf. The fact that they took away all of it's crit potential is positively boggling to me. Why ruin what people like about a weapon when making a version that's supposed to be 'better' in some way? Mara Detron isn't worse than regular Detron, and Vaykor Sydon isn't worse than regular Sydon, so I can't understand the decision to make the Synoid version so undesirable. 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Plasmaface
Just venting frustrations

[Azrael]

22 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

Can't say I 100% agree with the nerf. The weapon was a little bit ridiculous, but now it has little reason to exist besides mastery points.

Isn't this kind of a ridiculous thing to say? It does just as much damage and has just as much range and is just as fast as it was before. Is it really that onerous to have to equip the weapons you use?

[Gilmaesh]

28 minutes ago, Plasmaface said:

Can't say I 100% agree with the nerf.

Nerf? what nerf?

 

Edited November 4, 2016 by Gilmaesh
oh nvm, ridiculous to say nerf when you just have to equip it

[Azrael]

Just now, Gilmaesh said:

Nerf? what nerf?

They made it so you have to equip it to get the special spin attack passive. This makes it totally unusable for any player whose keyboard is missing the "f" key.

[Gilmaesh]

yeah i saw that, no comment

[tnccs215]

2 hours ago, Plasmaface said:

I kinda thought we were done with coptering but then we receive a legit powerful weapon that only shows its full potential when coptering. 

I don't understand that from a design standpoint, but I'm not here just to judge. 

Can't say I 100% agree with the nerf. The weapon was a little bit ridiculous, but now it has little reason to exist besides mastery points. The same is true for a number of syndicate melee weapons, actually.

"Oh boy, now I have to equip the weapon to use its crazy powerful spin attack!

UGH, such trash!"

[Brynslustafir]

20 minutes ago, tnccs215 said:

"Oh boy, now I have to equip the weapon to use its crazy powerful spin attack!

UGH, such trash!"

For the record, I was mistaken about the nature of the nerf. I didn't realize that all they did was add a requirement for its activation. 

That's all on me for not keeping up with patch notes. 

[Azrael]

1 minute ago, Plasmaface said:

For the record, I was mistaken about the nature of the nerf. I didn't realize that all they did was add a requirement for its activation. 

That's all on me for not keeping up with patch notes. 

Oh, okay. I thought you were... well, you get the idea.  :)

[Brynslustafir]

Just now, Azrael said:

Oh, okay. I thought you were... well, you get the idea.  :)

Yeah, this is pretty much a common-sense nerf. I can't use the Caustacysts projectile without directly equipping it, so it doesn't really make sense to be able to use the Telos Boltace's spike throw attack without directly equipping it. 

When I heard about a nerf I kinda just assumed they chopped the damage, or something typical like that. 

[DoomFruit]

3 hours ago, Azrael said:

Isn't this kind of a ridiculous thing to say? It does just as much damage and has just as much range and is just as fast as it was before. Is it really that onerous to have to equip the weapons you use?

Melee weapons are unique in that you don't need to actively wield them in order to use them. And before melee 2.0, we didn't have to equip them to use charge attacks either. That was good.

Having to swap to another weapon is a massive hit in terms of convenience because of the long delays involved in doing so. Most of the time, I stick with my sanctigris even at long range because stopping to pull out the lex prime is too annoying. Convenience is a very important factor in gameplay - see the vast majority of players using carrier prior to vacuum being made a universal mod, and then see the vast outcry when vacuum was nerfed (which thankfully got reverted).

Pulling out a melee weapon to use one of its features when its main and most important feature works when you're holding a gun (or scanner) means that I'm not going to bother with it. DE did this entire thing backwards. The correct method would have been to make all melee weapon features (charge attacks, blocking; channelling is pointless and can just be removed) function without having to actively wield them. This buffs them all, bringing the other 5 syndicate melees up to the level of the teltace and making them all appealing choices. Instead, we got the teltace nerfed back down closer to the level of mastery fodder.

 

 

[Azrael]

36 minutes ago, DoomFruit said:

Pulling out a melee weapon to use one of its features when its main and most important feature works when you're holding a gun (or scanner) means that I'm not going to bother with it.

So you never use combos or melee stances at all? I guess we must all be suckers for letting DE trick us into holding "f" for 2 seconds at the start of a mission. Thanks for enlightening us. Would you care to share your copies of tempo royale with me? You know, since you'll never use them?