DE we NEED to have a serious talk about Riven mods

[notlamprey]

Just now, VexisPhil said:

imo not their reputation but they risk spoiling the game for lower ranked / New players as gear requirements get higher and higher saying all higher level players have riven mods of OP stats , the lower ranked player base would struggle

Very true.

Remember Steve's throwaway joke many months ago about The War Within being ready in November? Well, that joke became a reality.

Now, we have a major game update complete with a nice little cash sink for impulsive or frustrated players (particularly newcomers) to dump some of their holiday money into. It's a bad look, and that's why I say the game's reputation stands to suffer if this situation isn't corrected.

DE surely haven't meant to, but they've put on the appearance of adding a big, nasty gacha ball just in time to take maximum advantage of new arrivals and bored veterans who have a little spare income that would otherwise be spent on something else.

[xavoer]

Nothing new to add, just another +1 to how bad of a mistake this was

[VexisPhil]

The Devs should really work into the possibility of making these Riven mods more a sidegrade rather than it now becoming a necessity 

 

[Sahansral]

1 hour ago, Aratir said:

So game economy and weapon modding has been killed, can't wait till they introduce these mods to warframes. [+50% sprint +250% armor +550% health] will be so good.

No no no, think big! How about Weapons with random stats? Warframes with random armor, speed, power, life etc.? Wouldn't that be great?

 

Edited November 14, 2016 by Sahansral

[MartianGHunter]

Just gonna give my 2 cents and be done here

Firstly Riven Mods are a good addition(I will explain why).

Simply because they allow play customization and uniqueness to a large variety of weapons now that said.

Tonkor is a broken its been broken ever since it was released because its only grenade launcher that doesn't do self-damage now if they fixed it so that it does like all other weapons in its category problem solved.

Simulor is also broken due to its ridiculous i mean ridiculous AoE range if that was reduced greatly problem solved.

The mods are not an issue its the weapons that have been broken for a long time.

Case and point Dread is an amazing bow but the drawback time is horrible so no speed trigger means that you taking long time to kill enemies and taking down nullifiers takes time.

That said I welcome a chance to get a mod for some of my fav underpowered weapons I don't use tonkor or simulor and i still play long endurance runs. In short just saying this is a PvE game if you wanna pay 2k plat for a stupid mod so you can kill mobs in sorties and show off how good you go ahead its your money.

But do not take away the opportunity and being b-hurt because you didn't when this opens up a massive door for soooo many underused weapons that are actually fun to play

But this my opinion obviously DE need to fix the stat RNG otherwise Riven mod are welcomed change.

OH and POWERCREEP has been in warframe for years so nothing has changed with these mods 

[marelooke]

7 hours ago, Gilmaesh said:

make them account bound and remove the 15 limit. Those mods are a great endo/credits sink.

Also the increased reroll cost was a good opportunity to create a sink for our existing resources, most of them become useless after a while and that was one way to use them. Instead they went nitain all over again, they created another resource and i have to use the operator to get it...

I'm not against that type of random stat type items, in a PVE game it's a common path and coming from diablo 2/3 i expected some (only kubrow were kind of random), but the way they were introduced is questionable. oh, and screw balance apparently.

If I wanted this type of RNG I would still be playing those games. I got bored with Diablo 3's loot rather quickly and the same went for Borderlands (managed to finish the first, gave up halfway through the second, not being able to get a haflway decent gun in a reasonable way just kills it for me).

Randomly generated stats on loot are lazy and unrewarding and it's why few people keep playing those kinds of games for any length of time. For a game that needs a constant stream of income to survive that is a problem, for Diablo 3 it's not, because people will likely be back to check out the next expansion anyway, get bored once they hit the RNG ceiling, quit and repeat. Blizzard doesn't depend on cash shop purchases for Diablo 3 at all, unlike DE with Warframe.

[-JT-_-R3W1ND]

5 hours ago, Cpl_Facehugger said:

You cannot. One riven mod per gun.

 

Let's be real here. A tonkor isn't going to notice more crit/damage/etc unless you're well above the level 140 foes you see in third stage sorties. All this "OP" affects in real terms are those few people who want to do hours of survival where enemies get to level 300+. And that with mods like that being incredibly difficult to acquire, so there's an incredibly tiny number of players who will actually ever see one of these. Indeed, it's very likely that if you saw someone using it you wouldn't even know because tonkor already kills everything outside of sorties instantly anyway.

All you guys complaining about how warframe is ruined now are being overly histrionic. Whales can now buy ultimate power, but whales keep f2p games afloat and riven mods are only available from other players, which means by definition all that ultimate power is available to free players.

Also, a lot of people seem to be open to trying out new builds with old guns that weren't part of the meta before ala paracyst, dera, braton, etc because of riven mods. Council chat has a lot more discussion on how to use non-meta weapons now than it did last week, almost solely because of riven mods making it so that taking weak weapons into sorties and killing effectively is actually a possibility.

Yes, this is why i prefer my 90% multi (have almost always 3 bullets), 50% clip size (have 3 now), and 80% flight speed on Tonkor. Don't you think i'm already have pretty weird weapon? I dunno how to do Simulor better, but DE does, i guess. Yesterday i dont even think i can have this on Tonkor.

And we have other weapons, like Soma there we can change gameplay just by a flat damage.

I don't think small amount of people who play this game for years is "a lot of people". Yeah, me to want to do decent Ignis, but actually nothing really changed. It just have serration in game. You can use it everythere and non-meta weapon still have disadvantage. As you say, even week ago founders think about it. 

 

 

 

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

4 hours ago, Aratir said:

So game economy and weapon modding has been killed, can't wait till they introduce these mods to warframes. [+50% sprint +250% armor +550% health] will be so good.

Calm down there Satan 

[Multicom-EN-]

Great points. DE really dropped the ball on this one.

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

4 hours ago, Sahansral said:

No no no, think big! How about Weapons with random stats? Warframes with random armor, speed, power, life etc.? Wouldn't that be great?

 

Lucifer is that you? Primed Riven Frames from the 9th circle of hell only $66.6 Prime Access

[Roving_Neophyte]

Yeah, i should agree with that. These mods are awesome and completely terrible in the same time. Awesome because they can make my favorite, but somewhat weak weapons (Rubico, for example) way better and rise them to the meta levels. Terrible, because the system itself is the most enormous Grindwall i've seen in my life - randomly spawned hard-to-get resource for randomly re-rolled random mods with re-rolling cost increasing every time you do it. Super-random grind adventures. Everything that can be random is random, and things that can't are just very expensive.

It becomes even more terrible with the fact that these mods can be generated for Tonkor, Simulor, Tigris, Hek, etc. They totally should be only for mid-game weapons.

Though i will disagree about making mods untradable - unless we can also choose for which weapon mod will be. Cuz you would need a thousand years to get a mod for correct weapon through sortie RNG alone.

I will stop playing the game and buying plat until something will be done about this system. And if DE will not change anything... well, i'll focus my spare time on playing Dark Souls or drawing stuff, and leave WF forever, i guess. My only regret will be buying Mag Prime Vault pack...

[k05h]

14 hours ago, ChasePanic said:

In short, if you don't want to play a Diablo style loot grind game from here on out, you're going to have a bad time.

I took a break from Warframe because of the excessive grind. I wanted to come back this week to enjoy The War Within quest. But atm I just do not feel in the mood because forums and reddit are full of riven mod complaints. And reading all this just makes me sad. 

Diablo style grind or Asian MMO style grind is not why I intially chose to play Warframe. 

Edited November 14, 2016 by k05h

[GhostlightX]

14 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

A lot of players are going to lose the drive to keep playing unless DE actually DOES address these points Ive made here

Too late to save it I already lost my entire Clan over this. Warframe became very officially PAY 2 WIN. Disappointed in the extreme.

[MobyTheDuck]

I stopped playing several F2P MMOs due to their overly grindy RNG systems, and DE finds a way to add the same system that kills these games into Warframe.

What is next guys, TF2-style crates? Selling keys for real money to get unusual skins?

You know, Diablo 3 almost died due to this RNG grind, which made them change the entire game system to cut the RNG and grind. Rifts, Greater Rifts, Kadala, increased drop chance, allowing to reroll item stats with easily available money, rewarding the player even though he didnt got the item he wanted with the crafting system...

This update only introduced a system that we wont use aside for grinding the new resource, that everyone knows it will be needed to every new weapon from now on.

You depend on RNG to:
- Get a Riven mod from sorties
- The mission to unlock the mod, which could be easy as balls or hard as hell
- The weapon that the mod will affect, that could be something already strong like the Simulor/Tonkor, or something useless like the Paracyst, or even worse, a sentinel weapon
- The stats of the weapon, that could have 4 positive stats and no negatives, or only one positive and one negative, the negative stats can be stuff that make the weapon totally useless like '-150% damage' or '-150% multishot'. Some mods can even have stats the weapon doesnt has, like crit chance on the Miter or Impact damage on the Glaxion.
- Finding the Kuva siphon to get Kuva to reroll the mod. Ah yes, nothing better than redoing the same mission over and over to get a chance based item, making players burnout really fast and stop bothering once they get enough. Hm, that sounds familiar.
- Rerolling the mod. Guess what? You get another hard mission and even worse stats! Please buy platinum!

I stopped bothering once I got a Snipetron mod with +zoom and -crit damage, then a Paracyst mod with +reload speed and +status duration. That really will make these weapons on par with the Tonkor!

And you guys actually plan to release Shotgun, Secondary, Melee, Companion, Sentinel and Warframe Rivens? Are you guys mad?

[GhostlightX]

12 hours ago, Xzorn said:

1. To prolong progression and give long term players something to keep busy with that actually lasts more than a month.

And alienate everyone else. Good luck with that.

 

This is p2win, nothing else. It is 100% designed to make people who can afford it purchase a ton of plat so they can buy these OP, over-priced monsters.

 

I buy plat now and again just to keep ticking over. This will now stop. As soon as I sense the game becoming ACTUAL p2win (as I now do), it sours the taste big time. I will never spend cash on Warframe again, even though I was perfectly happy to do so before TWW.

[GhostlightX]

11 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

It would be far better if we EARNED our OP mods, rather than casino gambling or black market trading for them

The more Sorties you do, the more chance you will have of getting an OP mod. That's earning it, right?

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

16 minutes ago, GhostlightX said:

And alienate everyone else. Good luck with that.

 

This is p2win, nothing else. It is 100% designed to make people who can afford it purchase a ton of plat so they can buy these OP, over-priced monsters.

 

I buy plat now and again just to keep ticking over. This will now stop. As soon as I sense the game becoming ACTUAL p2win (as I now do), it sours the taste big time. I will never spend cash on Warframe again, even though I was perfectly happy to do so before TWW.

 

25 minutes ago, GhostlightX said:

Too late to save it I already lost my entire Clan over this. Warframe became very officially PAY 2 WIN. Disappointed in the extreme.

 

26 minutes ago, GhostlightX said:

Too late to save it I already lost my entire Clan over this. Warframe became very officially PAY 2 WIN. Disappointed in the extreme.

 

40 minutes ago, k05h said:

I took a break from Warframe because of the excessive grind. I wanted to come back this week to enjoy The War Within quest. But atm I just do not feel in the mood because forums and reddit are full of riven mod complaints. And reading all this just makes me sad. 

Diablo style grind or Asian MMO style grind is not why I intially chose to play Warframe. 

 

47 minutes ago, Icy_Ymir said:

Yeah, i should agree with that. These mods are awesome and completely terrible in the same time. Awesome because they can make my favorite, but somewhat weak weapons (Rubico, for example) way better and rise them to the meta levels. Terrible, because the system itself is the most enormous Grindwall i've seen in my life - randomly spawned hard-to-get resource for randomly re-rolled random mods with re-rolling cost increasing every time you do it. Super-random grind adventures. Everything that can be random is random, and things that can't are just very expensive.

It becomes even more terrible with the fact that these mods can be generated for Tonkor, Simulor, Tigris, Hek, etc. They totally should be only for mid-game weapons.

Though i will disagree about making mods untradable - unless we can also choose for which weapon mod will be. Cuz you would need a thousand years to get a mod for correct weapon through sortie RNG alone.

I will stop playing the game and buying plat until something will be done about this system. And if DE will not change anything... well, i'll focus my spare time on playing Dark Souls or drawing stuff, and leave WF forever, i guess. My only regret will be buying Mag Prime Vault pack...

Agree with all of this

 

Warfarme is dying and DE is doing all they can to milk veteran players (that buy OP tonkor and synoid Rivens) and allow scamming of new ones (that buy reveiled junk mods for a high price)

 

I can see Primed Rivens becoming a thing soon as well as Riven frames and companions

[(PSN)True_Reclaimer]

25 minutes ago, MobyTheDuck said:

I stopped playing several F2P MMOs due to their overly grindy RNG systems, and DE finds a way to add the same system that kills these games into Warframe.

What is next guys, TF2-style crates? Selling keys for real money to get unusual skins?

You know, Diablo 3 almost died due to this RNG grind, which made them change the entire game system to cut the RNG and grind. Rifts, Greater Rifts, Kadala, increased drop chance, allowing to reroll item stats with easily available money, rewarding the player even though he didnt got the item he wanted with the crafting system...

This update only introduced a system that we wont use aside for grinding the new resource, that everyone knows it will be needed to every new weapon from now on.

You depend on RNG to:
- Get a Riven mod from sorties
- The mission to unlock the mod, which could be easy as balls or hard as hell
- The weapon that the mod will affect, that could be something already strong like the Simulor/Tonkor, or something useless like the Paracyst, or even worse, a sentinel weapon
- The stats of the weapon, that could have 4 positive stats and no negatives, or only one positive and one negative, the negative stats can be stuff that make the weapon totally useless like '-150% damage' or '-150% multishot'. Some mods can even have stats the weapon doesnt has, like crit chance on the Miter or Impact damage on the Glaxion.
- Finding the Kuva siphon to get Kuva to reroll the mod. Ah yes, nothing better than redoing the same mission over and over to get a chance based item, making players burnout really fast and stop bothering once they get enough. Hm, that sounds familiar.
- Rerolling the mod. Guess what? You get another hard mission and even worse stats! Please buy platinum!

I stopped bothering once I got a Snipetron mod with +zoom and -crit damage, then a Paracyst mod with +reload speed and +status duration. That really will make these weapons on par with the Tonkor!

And you guys actually plan to release Shotgun, Secondary, Melee, Companion, Sentinel and Warframe Rivens? Are you guys mad?

One of the best replies so far

 

DE needs to read and fix this

[Kutsus]

These mods could work, but require major tweaks, rerolling costs should not escalate beyond a reasonable point, Veiled mods need to show how many times theyve been rerolled to avoid scamming.
The RNG stats need to be toned down a bit, specifically i think that, for example, having multiple mods with the same stat effects yet still different numbers in those effects is complete bullS#&$, and that kind of thing has no place in warframe.

[(PSN)Mofojokers]

15 hours ago, (PS4)True_Reclaimer said:

This RNG stat grindwall killed Destiny and Borderlands and almost every MMO.

I cant imagine Warframe will survive it long term.

Very true , as a ex Destiny player (Beta starter) my clan was destroyed by the silliness they brought foward.

From the looks of these new mods they have some very serious choices to consider. PC players don't seem to enjoy the new rng in rng stat wall grind.

Well console users we tend to be worse because you'll find alot of family players and casuals our side compared to pc.

Who cannot sink the same time to grind out the rng in rng stat wall mods. But what i find very odd is how insanely OP we are currently pre TWW. As it is nothing is much of a challenge so power creeping further seems very silly.....

Unless TWW is 100x harder than current game... ???

[Rin01]

I myself am ok with the concept and the overall implementation of the Riven mods, but I also see issues with it and can understand why people are upset.

From what I can tell there are a few main issues most players have with the mods: RNG, crazy stat combinations, veiled mods being tradable, crazy conditions to unveil them and increasing cost to reroll. There are other issues people have mentioned, but these seem to be the most popular.

I will try to give my view on these things and make suggestions on how to fix the issues I think need fixing.

RNG

The RNG may be heavy handed but for the most part I am ok with this. It means players have something to try to hunt for, trying to get the good rolls. They cannot simply pick the best stats for their chosen weapon. I do not think this needs fixing. However, the results that can be generated from the RNG I feel is a problem.

Crazy Stat Combinations

I do think this needs to be tweaked. Being able to get +100% or more for damage, crit chance AND crit damage all on the same mod, without having some kind of severe counterbalancing negative seems broken to me. Especially as you can potentially get these mods for weapons that are already overpowered. Yes, it means you can boost underpowered weapons, and that is a good thing, but players being players will most likely hunt/buy mods to boost their already OP weapons. It will not solve anything because the OP weapons will remain OP and the UP weapons will remain UP.

My solution to this would be to have stat limits based on the weapon the mod is for. So for example, a Soma Riven mod will have lower potential maximums than that of a Burston. This means players can still buff their favourite OP weapons, but they can also take a previously UP weapon and potentially boost it to the level of an OP weapon, making it more attractive to use.

I think if the limits could be balanced better around the weapon it may go some way to alleviate the issue of having OP Riven mods.

Veiled Mods Tradable

This is clearly a scam issue and something that needs to be fixed asap. The fact players are able to easily scam others out of their real money is a major flaw in this system. I have no problem with unveiled mods being tradable, but veiled mods really shouldn't be tradable at all, even without the increasing reroll cost. Players should be able to have clear view of what they are spending their real money on.

Crazy Challenge Conditions to Unveil

This is a bit of a hit and miss issue for me. Some challenges are not challenges at all while others are not only nearly impossible but also force solo play, which I think is a problem.

The solo condition is probably there to make it more challenging, but this is a multiplayer game and players like to team up with their friends to do stuff together. These Riven mods are now a big part of our end game progression, but it seems some of them do not fit a multiplayer game.

To fix this I think the 'Solo' condition needs to be removed all together. I am perfectly happy with it being challenging to unveil a Riven mod, but it should not force you to do it solo. It shouldn't force you to do it with a team either, as that opens the door for griefing and frustration. It needs to be team size neutral to ensure players can tackle it with or without other players.

Another idea to resolve the nearly impossible challenge conditions is to allow players to reroll veiled mods, in an attempt to get a more acceptable challenge.

Increasing Cost to Reroll

I cannot make my mind up if it is an issue or not. The biggest issue with it at the moment is when you combine it with tradable veiled mods. If that was fixed I am not sure if it would remain a big problem.

I think part of the reason to increase the costs is to discourage players from continuously rerolling until they get the ultimate stats, but on the other hand I think that is an ok option to have. Maybe a compromise can be made here. Increase the cost to each reroll, but make it a smaller increase and put a cap on it at some point (assuming there isn't one currently). Or, if they add the above idea of rerolling veiled mods to change the unveil challenge, then they can increase the cost of rerolling veiled mods, but not unveiled mods.

Overall I don't mind the riven mod system, but it clearly needs some tweaks. I don't want them to remove the system, nor do I think the RNG needs to be removed. But the stat outcomes do need to be balanced better and the issues above need to be resolved in some way.

It needs to remain a system that takes time for players to get anything out of it, so they cannot get uber Riven mods too quickly. It also needs to be tweaked to encourage players to use under used weapons. The chance to get a Soma Riven mod should be less than the chance to get a Riven mod for a weapon nobody uses. Maybe the chance can be based on weapon statistics, so as a weapon's popularity changes so too does the chance to get a Riven mods for that weapon. Just a thought.

[Cyber-Ghost]

i love these new mods the only complain is why the f*** tonkor, simulor and dread have these insane mods ?? only old weapons should have and the capacity of 15 is bs, the others points are meh, this game is based on RNG so why are you complaining about beign unlucky ?? just try the next day a sortie to get one or buy them from others, and those imposible task are to get the posibility of get an insane mod,you want everything in your hands like corrupted mods or rare that are easy farm or what ? 

[Playford]

7 hours ago, Aratir said:

So game economy and weapon modding has been killed, can't wait till they introduce these mods to warframes. [+50% sprint +250% armor +550% health] will be so good.

I think I had something like that in Closed Beta. Along with a 500% multishot, 10m punchthrough, 200% damage Gorgon.

Fun times.

[Rin01]

3 minutes ago, Cyber-Ghost said:

i love these new mods the only complain is why the f*** tonkor, simulor and dread have these insane mods ?? only old weapons should have and the capacity of 15 is bs, the others points are meh, this game is based on RNG so why are you complaining about beign unlucky ?? just try the next day a sortie to get one or buy them from others, and those imposible task are to get the posibility of get an insane mod,you want everything in your hands like corrupted mods or rare that are easy farm or what ? 

I don't think it is the challenge people have an issue with, I think it is that the challenge doesn't always match the results. I also do not think the challenge should force you to do it solo.

Some challenges have been easy and resulted in OP stats while other challenges have been almost impossible and yielded awful stats no-one would use. If the challenge matched the stat results I suspect people wouldn't be as annoyed by them.

[Mr.Lube]

This NEEDS to be discussed soon before these mods get out of hand. These new mods need to go before it's too late.