Valkyr Prime design lore discussion

[Gelkor]

Nekros Prime's trailer was late too. *shrug*

I love that they give us lore with the new prime trailers, but I feel like it means it's going to go how the lore did for Simaris Scans, slower and slower every time. 

Edited November 22, 2016 by Gelkor

[PossiblyMG]

You saw what happened when we hyped TWW.

You're supposed to learn from experiences

[Zhoyzu]

14 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

theory: a supposition or a system of ideas intended to explain something, especially one based on general principles independent of the thing to be explained.

hypothesis: is somethign more then a guess, but less then a theory, an idea or explanation that you test through study and experimentation 

theory is more applicable in this instance 

Theory is a Fact. you have a guess. ergo you have a hypothesis. Whatever uncredible source you found is also incorrect. Theory = Fact.  Hypothesis = Guess. you have a hypothesis. you do not get to choose.

24 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

s 

[DoppelShifter]

DE... look, I love you folks. I think you're one of the best dev studios I've ever heard about. Heck, one of my dreams is to work there.

Your love for the lore and consistency in this game is astonishing. Not many studios would look at old low-tier weapons and rework them just to make them fit the lore (Burston, Boar, Lanka...).

And you delivered some awesome piece of lore when you released the Gersemi deluxe skin for Valkyr; the first skin not to be a "gaiden" of Dark Sektor or an esoteric theme (such as Bruja for Trinity), but a legit lore-based skin, supposed to show us how the true Valkyr looked, before the atrocities made by Alad V when he "skinned her alive".

....And then you folks throw everything down the drain when your Valkyr Prime body follows the Mangled Valkyr instead of the Gersemi Valkyr.

Of all the complaints about this Prime Access (the Air Support charges, yet another Cernos and so on), this is, for me, the worst offender: Valkyr Prime breaks the lore, and in a way that's so not like you, Digital Extremes.

Might not seem like much, but for players who liked Valkyr, or who used her as a main warframe (me included), and thus considering her an extension of ourselves into the game, for some of us this was a punch to the gut.

Some are calling the whole design lazy. I wouldn't go so far, but when compared to Loki, Nekros or Trinity Primes, you can clearly see some difference. Heck, just look at Gersemi, which isn't even a Prime.

I know at this point this would be incredibly hard to.. "remedy". I'd avoid saying "fix", because I don't think there's a way to. You wouldn't backpedal a whole Prime (but kudos if you would do), and the other possible solutions are a long shot and require man-hours from your artists and animators that I don't know if you folks would be able to spend.

For example, you folks could add an accessory slot to add her winglets and tail, and give her to Prime owners (or for folks who have Gersemi). You could make a Gersemi Prime, and give it to folks who have both Gersemi and Valkyr Prime, or even put for sale for plat (I'd gladly buy it, considering the extra effort needed).

But what's unacceptable is the current situation: Valkyr Prime breaks the lore, and it's disappointing a lot of Valkyr fans.

First there was Valkyr Prime. Then the Gersemi form was engineered from it. Then Alad V did those horrid experimentations that mangled the Gersemi form into the twisted Valkyr we first met.

...With Valkyr Prime, we have a time paradox. We have a Prime inspired by the mangled version of Gersemi, which was supposed to be a design based on Valkyr Prime.

DE, I think we would like at least a good response, but... ideally, we would like some action to fix that.

The Digital Extremes I know values lore. Values consistency. This Valkyr Prime's body doesn't follow that. 

[Tesseract7777]

I wonder if they have been having trouble with the trailer because of how lore breaking valkyr prime is. Writing the dialogue for it must be a nightmare.

[Zhoyzu]

I dont see how its lore breaking

[Damuranashi]

Alad V was trying to make the Gesemi Valkyr look like the Prime version when he experimented on her. There. I cannot believe you people are going insane over this.

[FierceRadiance]

Respectfully, for players who doesn't live eat breathe Valkyr, can you explain more clearly what were you objecting to?  Her existence? Her design/appearance? Her abilities?

[arch111]

22 minutes ago, (XB1)EternalDrk Mako said:

haha xD

Yeah, I looked at it for a good 5 minutes thinking 

"So the althelmet looks more like a complete vanilla-valkyr and with the armgards gone it looks slimmer. Hmm. But what does it remind me of ?"

*lightbulb*

They aimed that one at us maby?

This feels like Chroma 2.0. I just want it to be over now and focus on other things. 

[(PSN)LiamRising]

its not really lore breaking as a valkyr main myself i think the prime looks good and from what i know the lore is most frames are reverse engineered from what we knew about the primes so maybe someone just redesigned their non prime valkyr and bam created the gersemi one we have as a deluxe skin or at least that's how i think of it

Edited November 22, 2016 by (PS4)LiamRising

[Genitive]

Or maybe it doesn't break the lore, but we don't know about it. Wait for the teaser.

 

1 minute ago, Damuranashi said:

Alad V was trying to make the Gesemi Valkyr look like the Prime version when he experimented on her. There. I cannot believe you people are going insane over this.

Thank you. Now people's headcanons are safe again.

[RawGritz]

3 minutes ago, FierceRadiance said:

Respectfully, for players who doesn't live eat breathe Valkyr, can you explain more clearly what were you objecting to?  Her existence? Her design/appearance? Her abilities?

The thing about Primes is... They are the original Warframes. So his complaint is why does the Prime version of Valkyr look more like the variant Alad V created and not the Valkyr Gesemi skin, which is supposedly what Valkyr looked like post-Prime version yet before Alad V reverse-engineered her.

Edited November 22, 2016 by RawGritz

[(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako]

10 minutes ago, Zhoyzu said:

Theory is a Fact. you have a guess. ergo you have a hypothesis. Whatever uncredible source you found is also incorrect. Theory = Fact.  Hypothesis = Guess. you have a hypothesis. you do not get to choose.

id do therefor i have. source[lol] i happen to have random knowledge in my head .... partially due to a good  memory ... partially i like random facts 

your thinking of the normal term towards  modern scientific project/experimentation approach

this isnt 5rd grade science , and i do not classify it as a experiment 

so i dont need to choose ,  application of the word isnt applied in that variation [English is complex....] 

in standard practice

a theory is a rational abstract or generalized thinking, body of knowledge ect , that can be argued

scientifically

a theory is a hypothesis that hast been disproved or is to a point that its well established

a hypothesis is a theory using data and experimentation 

a LAW is a fact , a rule , a set standard 

take it as you will, but i do not classify it as a science project, experiment, test

so not a hypothesis 

so i classify it as a theory based on the standard non scientific approach 

 

 

[DoppelShifter]

Just now, FierceRadiance said:

Respectfully, for players who doesn't live eat breathe Valkyr, can you explain more clearly what were you objecting to?  Her existence? Her design/appearance? Her abilities?

Her Gersemi skin suggested her true appearance before Alad V experimented with her. She had more "feline-like" features, different leg structure, clear claws, a tail and winglets (an allusion to Valkyries), along with a green color scheme that hints that the Zanuka armor is made from the Gersemi armor. This was supposed to fill a lore gap explaining what was the real appearance of the "standard" Valkyr before Alad V experimented with her.

....Valkyr Prime doesn't follow the Gersemi design, but the "Mangled" design. Which is lore-breaking. If Gersemi is her true stable form, why is the Prime version (a.k.a the first Valkyr) based on the mangled version, instead of the Gersemi, which was supposed to be the closest to her Prime?

That doesn't make sense.

[arch111]

Noooow I get it! Hahaha. Thats the operator suit. I thought it was an alt helmet for Valkyr.

 

[DoppelShifter]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)LiamRising said:

its not really lore breaking as a valkyr main myself i think the prime looks good and from what i know the lore is most frames are reverse engineered from what we knew about the primes so maybe someone just redesigned their non prime valkyr and bam created the gersemi one we have as a deluxe skin or at least that's how i think of it

Actually the Gersemi was revealed officially by DE as the true Valkyr before the Alad V experiments. So yeah, some lore was broken there.

[(XBOX)BURRITO DEVIL]

You do know DE can change the lore any time and however to want to

 

Just because this dosent suit the players headcannon dosent mean they broke anything

 

Warframe players never cease to amaze me............

[artemisfortune]

1 minute ago, DoppelShifter said:

Actually the Gersemi was revealed officially by DE as the true Valkyr before the Alad V experiments. So yeah, some lore was broken there.

How? What about Valkyr prime looks corpus to you? Gersemi is a copy from the prime version. I don't know if you realized this, but the model looks a lot like Gersemi with prime parts added, and two gauntlets. No lore was broken, and every thread I've seen about the subject has been just the worst.

[(PSN)LiamRising]

27 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Actually the Gersemi was revealed officially by DE as the true Valkyr before the Alad V experiments. So yeah, some lore was broken there.

but that is what i meant the valkyr he captured before it was ripped apart  was what a tenno reverse engineered from the prime and just altered it for fashion frame reasons to create the gersemi for themselves.

[Evultis]

DE also may have based the Prime off of the standard version seeing that you have to pay for Gersemi, but not for standard Valkyr. Furthermore, I find multiple visual similarities between ALL variants of Valkyr. Perhaps when Valkyr Prime was mass produced as Gersemi, some extra visual features were added or expanded upon (The tail is a good example), only to be latter stripped down by Alad.

[bobsthname]

 

Spoiler

Alad V is an Orokin. With that in mind is it so hard to say that he wasn't the only one who thought of the "Ability Enhancing Gauntlet" that everyone hates so much?

 

 

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

Amen this is way better then a rage thread which is kinda understandable but this is a better show of emotions on how we valkyr mains are upset 

[Zhoyzu]

7 minutes ago, DoppelShifter said:

Actually the Gersemi was revealed officially by DE as the true Valkyr before the Alad V experiments. So yeah, some lore was broken there.

then the lore is irrelevant. in otherwords theres no problem

[DoppelShifter]

1 minute ago, (PS4)LiamRising said:

but that is what i meant the valkyr he captured before it was ripped apart  was what a tenno reverse engineered from the prime and just altered it for fashion frame reasons to create the gersemi for themselves.

Well, let's make a timeline:

What we expected to happen, following what usually happens with most warframes:

1 - Valkyr Prime was created, as the very first Valkyr Warframe.
2 - After the end of the war, the Tenno re-engineered what they knew about Valkyr Prime, creating the Gersemi Valkyr (the one with valkyrie winglets and a feline tail, and no restraining bonds)
3 - Alad V captured a Gersemi Valkyr, experimented with her, removed her tail and winglets, removed most of her armor plating (same colors as Zanuka) and added the restraining gauntlets.

But what we got?

1 - Mangled Valkyr was designed first
2 - DE launched Gersemi saying it was the true form of Valkyr before the experiments
3 - Valkyr Prime is based on Mangled Valkyr.

....That doesn't make sense.

[KawaiirawrxDkys]

16 minutes ago, Damuranashi said:

Alad V was trying to make the Gesemi Valkyr look like the Prime version when he experimented on her. There. I cannot believe you people are going insane over this.

Wtf That doesnt make sense.