Better starter frame options

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Volt is low-mid tier. I bought him to save me from Mag. Otherwise, I would have quit the game. Her uses include, being a paper weight, being a door stop, looking pretty while staying out of the way of good frames.

[Noobverest]

1 minute ago, (PS4)DesecratedFlame said:

Volt is low-mid tier. I bought him to save me from Mag. Otherwise, I would have quit the game. Her uses include, being a paper weight, being a door stop, looking pretty while staying out of the way of good frames.

 

Hats off to you sir. You have made me speechless.

Volt, low-mid tier. Wow.

 

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Just now, Noobverest said:

 

Hats off to you sir. You have made me speechless.

Volt, low-mid tier. Wow.

 

You sure talk a lot for being speechless.

[Atekron]

On 24.11.2016 at 11:10 AM, CaptainDavian said:

No lets change starters frames to Limbo and Hydroid and let the new player taste some pain.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

22 minutes ago, Noobverest said:

 

 

Basically what I'm trying to say is: The only thing in the game I'd consider as Lower tier would be Limbo. Maybe Ash, depending on the rework.

Top tier would have Volt

Volt being top tier, but ash being low tier heavily concerns me. No offense but Volt is a pretty simple frame and you can mod him very easily compared to ash(especially after the rework). I'm not saying Volt isn't top tier, because than I would be lying, but I'm just saying rework or no rework. ash is FAR from being a low tier frame

[Atekron]

8 hours ago, Arniox said:

Limbo, Oberon, Hydroid....

Who's the fourth one?

Why everybody hates Oberon? With his toolkit low-mid level mission became really easy to traverse, and with proper modding he can do sortie like cc frame without need to die.

[Noobverest]

11 minutes ago, (XB1)CFE Angry said:

Volt being top tier, but ash being low tier heavily concerns me. No offense but Volt is a pretty simple frame and you can mod him very easily compared to ash(especially after the rework). I'm not saying Volt isn't top tier, because than I would be lying, but I'm just saying rework or no rework. ash is FAR from being a low tier frame

Thats why i said depending on the re-work. I don't know how bad the blade storm will be. If I have to target every single enemy before I can ACTUALLY kill them, then, as others have said... I'm just using a gun. What's worse is that this "gun" has to be activated, tagged, then re-activated before you actually get STUCK IN ANIMATION to go stab stuff. Why not just use a gun?

With the current bladestorm, he's mid-tier because his whole kit is very mediocre and doesn't bring much to his game play (teleporting to enemies when I have bullet jump. WHOOPIDY DOO).

Ash was the first frame I crafted, so I don't want him to be crap. But to be honest, he really isn't that good compared to other frames. (I started playing a long time ago, so back then Ash was like WOW, kill everything in an aoe, great stuff! (It was before ancients had this stupid aura that reduced ability damage by 90% and made Ash an ancient humping frame)

 

Right now what ash going for him in the rework is:

Can teleport to OBJECTS, WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Has a "GUN LIKE" blade storm instead of a hit 4 and kill everything in aoe, YES, I love it. /s

Can use smoke bomb in MID AIR, WHAT I ALWAYS WANTED, TO SMOKE BOMB IN MID AIR!!!!!! (Oh wait, Loki can invis in mid air too..............and the invis is longer...... OH WAIT.... BUT ASH HAS A STUN! I'll kill everyone with a 1s stun. Yes!)

Shuriken is the master ability that can penetrate 5000 mobs and explode like a nuke. Best ability in game

[Arniox]

23 hours ago, Gran_Maw_Sigmus said:

Banshee and Zephyr come to mind, as far as I know they're the two frames people want reworks for the most, except maybe Limbo.

 banshee doesn't really need a change I don't think. She's quite op and good in her own way. her first is kinba useless, but if you have the augment, it strips armor. So all in all, all of her abilities are quite good.

Zephyr I think needs a change. LEAVE her turbulence alone. It is PERFECT the way it is. But the first and second abilities could be combined, and changed slightly, and the fourth needs to be fixed up and made more reliable. Tornadoes that fly around randomly whilst doing tiny damage DoT is kinda a bad ability.

[PossiblyMG]

tldr so here's my thoughts:

• Excalibur: It's horrible for new players, it teaches them to think that all you have to do is pick a channeling frame and abuse your 4. What it doesn't teach them is the value of blinding and AoEing, especially since RJ and RB bring a lot more utility than using a macro for your melee key
• Mag: From what I've seen many newbies act like Mag is rocket science because of the debris mechanics
• Volt: Simple and balanced. It works well for new players, mechanics are not too oppressive but it also requires some basic intelligence to make him decent

So keep Volt, but change Mag and Excal with:

• Oberon: It has basic healing, basic crowd controlling, basic tanking. It'll easily help players grasp the mechanics of each of these roles and direct them towards future decisions frame-wise
• Loki: Obvious stealth factor to understand finishers, enemy awareness,  hell, even hacking patterns

[xXDeadsinxX]

I'd say put Rhino in for starter frames and put a new frame where Rhino currently is.

[Deatherage_]

excaliber is fine as a starter frame, he has cc a channeling 4 and introduces the player to offensive frames which leads players to the kill everything playstyle

mag is also ok as a starter frame, she is made of paper with tons of cc meaning picking her will lead to a more strategic mindset if they don't rage in frustatrion from trying to melee everything with a support frame

volt is volt, he offers CC with his 1 and 4 and comes with a speed boost for utility and a sheild for defensive purposes. making him the middle of the road frame.

 

but they do need a 4th starter frame, in all honesty if they ever add a 4th starter frame it should be banshee. Yes she is paper like mag, but she has a silence which allows her to be sneaky with out LOLZLOKISTEALTHWINYO and she introduces channeling 4's just like excaliber but her is utility based. then she can increase damage and offer tons cc making her basically the more offensive leaning option to mag

[(PSN)Crixus044]

I've always said that mag is a bad starter frame, because despite how amazing she is once you understand her, she's quite complicated, and any starter player would not be interested in learning all of her complex mechanics right when they start the game. I say Oberon should replace her, as he's a Jack of all trades and very straight forward, and all his powers are visual, meaning it's easy to understand him once you start using him. That's a good frame to start understanding each type of warframe, and he fits the caster role very well, and a lot of people who I bring into the game love him for his look, his alternative skin, and how his powers work.

Volt is ok, but for some reason, every player that I bring into the game that starts with volt, hates the game. His description is also extremely misleading. He's so easy to get as well. I say, we need an actual tank in the starter line up, and I think frost should be his replacement. He has one of the highest armor, shields, and health, and his powers are very defensive, a great option for those who want to learn how to be a supportive tank in the game. He's not the tankiest by any stretch of the imagination, but for beginning content, he can handle some hits. Also, his helmet looks like a fat Excalibur helmet. He's like his brother.

EDIT: I know these options were all male. I never really considered it though until my friend just brought it up because it doesn't matter to me whether the starter frame is male or female. It shouldn't matter at all, but if it's important that we have a female starter frame, I say have a 4th option, but if three is the limit, then replace mag with nyx. In my opinion, nyx is an amazing option, because she fits the cc caster player role better than a lot of frames and she's very powerful. Also, any mmo player will instantly understand how to play her because of mind control abilities in other games are very similar. To top it all off, she looks like the female Excalibur.

Well that is my two cents. What do you guys think?

Edited November 26, 2016 by (PS4)Crixus044

[Kuva_Kebab]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Crixus044 said:

I've always said that mag is a bad starter frame, because despite how amazing she is once you understand her, she's quite complicated, and any starter player would not be interested in learning all of her complex mechanics right when they start the game. I say Oberon should replace her, as he's a Jack of all trades and very straight forward, and all his powers are visual, meaning it's easy to understand him once you start using him. That's a good frame to start understanding each type of warframe, and he fits the caster role very well, and a lot of people who I bring into the game love him for his look, his alternative skin, and how his powers work.

Volt is ok, but for some reason, every player that I bring into the game that starts with volt, hates the game. His description is also extremely misleading. He's so easy to get as well. I say, we need an actual tank in the starter line up, and I think frost should be his replacement. He has one of the highest armor, shields, and health, and his powers are very defensive, a great option for those who want to learn how to be a supportive tank in the game. He's not the tankiest by any stretch of the imagination, but for beginning content, he can handle some hits. Also, his helmet looks like a fat Excalibur helmet. He's like his brother.

EDIT: I know these options were all male. I never really considered it though until my friend just brought it up because it doesn't matter to me whether the starter frame is male or female. It shouldn't matter at all, but if it's important that we have a female starter frame, I say have a 4th option, but if three is the limit, then replace mag with nyx. In my opinion, nyx is an amazing option, because she fits the cc caster player role better than a lot of frames and she's very powerful. Also, any mmo player will instantly understand how to play her because of mind control abilities in other games are very similar. To top it all off, she looks like the female Excalibur.

Well that is my two cents. What do you guys think?

I think Mag is fine as a starter frame, they just need to change her description to match that her mechanics can be pretty daunting to initially figure out, something like "A complex, strategic caster." The same for Volt, though I don't know how much I like having 2 caster frames and 1 balance frame, I feel like the starters should be: 1 balanced, 1 caster, 1 moderate tank, but none of the tanks really fit being a starter.

People in this thread have suggested Rhino, but he's MR2 locked for a reason, and that reason is to stop people starting with him and stomping all the planets immediately.

Frost could make a good starter to fill in the tank role, but the problem is that he teaches people to just camp in one spot and be invincible for it, which is something DE have been trying to stop (anyone remember "Homer's Drinking Bird" a la U15.3?)

 

 

[crimson-warborn]

the idea of frost starter could be useful in a sense, he can be the one that let´s you do a defense mission in a "easy" setting, volt needs lots of shields to do the same kind of protection and the other two can´t even defend properly (in this comparison), and to do a "mighty ball of ice" you need proper modding or a lot of energy pads on low level, and to achieve that frost just needs a little tweak on the sphere on early level so is too difficult to abuse it even if you already mastered his system

[Gran_Maw_Sigmus]

Personally, I'd say our starter frames could be:

Excaliber: Poster boy, and a solid starter frame all around. No change needed.

Ember/Nyx: Really any squishy caster frame, but Ember comes to mind, especially after whenever DE decides to rework WoF. Nyx would also be a very solid choice, but I can see players getting mixed up by the fact that she's literally just Excaliber with boobs, appearance wise.

Ash: He'd be a good introduction to stealth gameplay, which I think some people forget tends to be a big part of the earlygame before you get powerful enough to slaughter everything.

Saryn: She'd be a good tank starter, and a good introduction to experimenting with ability synergies. Also the current method of obtaining her is real grindy and dumb. Frost could also work well here, I think, but people keep mentioning a 2F2M balance, which I can understand.

Some common mentions:

Rhino: I love Rhino, I really do, but giving him out at the beginning of the game would be bad. He's incredibly powerful in the earlygame, and you'd probably just get a bunch of newbies that only want to Iron Skin and waltz through the game like that.

Loki: Loki doesn't seem too bad, but he was replaced for a reason. He's a bit complex for newbies, and I could see some people definitely getting frustrated when they pick a frame with no damage abilities. Also, what somebody mentioned earlier that everyone seems to be forgetting, the tutorial mission requires you to kill a squad of Grineer with your 1 ability before you can get any weapons. Kinda hard for Loki to do that.

 

[(PSN)Crixus044]

9 hours ago, Cudgy_Ent said:

I think Mag is fine as a starter frame, they just need to change her description to match that her mechanics can be pretty daunting to initially figure out, something like "A complex, strategic caster." The same for Volt, though I don't know how much I like having 2 caster frames and 1 balance frame, I feel like the starters should be: 1 balanced, 1 caster, 1 moderate tank, but none of the tanks really fit being a starter.

People in this thread have suggested Rhino, but he's MR2 locked for a reason, and that reason is to stop people starting with him and stomping all the planets immediately.

Frost could make a good starter to fill in the tank role, but the problem is that he teaches people to just camp in one spot and be invincible for it, which is something DE have been trying to stop (anyone remember "Homer's Drinking Bird" a la U15.3?)

 

 

Remember, I new player does not have a maxed steel fiber, any real power strength, or any range mods, so the globe will have to be the base globe. Also, he/she probably doesn't even have frost ranked up, so that globe would be going down real quick. Also, camping with a tank is very common in warframe, so it ain't that bad of a habit learning, because it actually helps in learning defense missions, which are the most popular endgame type mission, as well a learning how to keep the enemy at bay. All they have to learn is how to survive outside the globe, which for the beginning missions isn't that hard either, since your almost always on the move.

[Vilemyre]

On 11/24/2016 at 9:08 AM, RavenCorella said:

Put Oberon as 4th choice.

 

This and loki/ash to replace mag or volt then it literally becomes a final fantasy party

Warrior - Excalibur

Rouge/Assassin - Loki/Ash

Black Mage - Mag/Volt

White Mage - Oberon

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

Frames for new players need to be easy to use and have some durability without good mods.  Excalibur is the perfect frame in that regard.  Tough enough with powers that are simple to understand and effective without min/maxing and corrupted mods.  Mag is too complicated to be a starter frame.  I like the Frost idea.

 

[MagPrime]

How is Mag complicated?

And I notice a lot of people are glossing over the fact that energy is pretty scarce when you're new (unless that's RNG and I just had bad luck for weeks on end) so most new players are going to be relying on their weapons more than their abilities.

From personal experience, the starer frames are pretty straight forward.

[freeformline]

I think Mag is fine as a starter frame. Her abilities are a little complicated to optimize now, but their essential functions are all fairly straightforward and effective. With the exception of no longer trivializing Corpus maps, starting Mag now won't be much harder than it was when I did it.

I like the idea of Nyx joining the starting line-up. Her Chaos would make defense missions much easier for low-level players, and she has a fair mix of offensive and defensive abilities. She might have to use her second ability rather than her first for the tutorial, but that shouldn't be too much of an obstacle.

3 hours ago, Gran_Maw_Sigmus said:

Saryn: She'd be a good tank starter, and a good introduction to experimenting with ability synergies.

I actually agree with this, to a limited extent. Saryn has solid base stats, and Molt and Spore are pretty strong at low levels, but she takes some time to figure out and isn't very rewarding until you have a pretty good set of basic mods. Even though she is my main frame now, I didn't enjoy her until I potatoed her and equipped Overextended, since that is what her spores really need to be energy efficient.

As for Loki, he was removed from the starting line-up for a reason. He is very dependent on his abilities to survive, and new players simply will not have the mods to make him work, especially given the scarcity of energy in the game. My brothers started with Loki back in the day, and they had a pretty rough time of it. It pains me to say it, but I would sooner recommend Ash as a stealth-themed starter frame.

[(PSN)Crixus044]

On 11/26/2016 at 2:48 PM, Noamuth said:

How is Mag complicated?

And I notice a lot of people are glossing over the fact that energy is pretty scarce when you're new (unless that's RNG and I just had bad luck for weeks on end) so most new players are going to be relying on their weapons more than their abilities.

From personal experience, the starer frames are pretty straight forward.

As a clan leader of 200 active members,  I wholeheartedly disagree.

Pull, simple,  pulls enemies and deals damage

Magnetize: Attracts bullets, that deal extra damage,  cause damage over time,  and explode when enemy is killed,  dealing all damage done.  This is really complicated for a beginner.  I have heard every question from my new clan members. All of them ask "how do i get this constant damage effect?" "Why does it shrink and explode sometimes?" "Why doesn't it absorb bullets at the last seconds?" I've heard them all.

Polarize: Replenishes shields while stripping armor and enemy shields, also leaving behind shards to increase your Magnetize damage. Don't even try to convince me that this is a straight forward and easy to understand power. What's Armor, What's shields, Duration vs. Range, damage, synergy? No beginner can  even come close to understanding this ability. 

Crush: Simple Lift and Crush. How it deals damage will take some getting use to. 

So no, mag is not simple at all.  A lot of people i know think about quitting the game because it's too complicated until i show them oberon or ember, or anyone simple. Starter frames need to have powers that are simple,  straight forward, and very visual. That's why rhino and valkyr are the best starter tanks because their powers are so simple and easy to understand,  while being very visual, while chroma is very complicated. You'll probably get rhino and valkyr before chroma.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

I chose Mag as a starter frame. I can assure you, she is not fine.

[FINNSTAR7]

Volt and Excal are both great frames to start off with if you're a newbie

Edited November 28, 2016 by FINNSTAR7

[Marvelous_A]

I will replace Mag with Valkyr. After the change Valkyr doesn't have perma-invincibility anymore but still tanky enough the carry newbies through most early missions. Her abilities are straightforward and also easy to mod too. Mag is very squishy and weak without proper modding and her only defensive ability, Magnitize is extremely difficult to use.

Edited November 28, 2016 by Marvelous_A

[Syln]

Limbo, limbo and limbo as starter frame (and another limbo so we have 2 males and 2 females)