Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

7 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

Yes

Doubt that a stance that would disable both, melee and gunplay would do more for his whole kit.

It would be nothing but a direct downgrade before getting nerfed dead alltogether cause it would, lost effectivity aside, overperform as a stance.

Edited April 29, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

We had this situation with excal allready where his waves were still inferior to just playing melee with meta builds but got nerfed due to theyr range. You think finisher aoe on melee kill wouldn't result in an uproar?

[LuckyCharm]

This new bladestorm was designed ad a nerf. No its not perfect but its better than making all enemies invincible till ash has done his thing. If i was to suggest a change it'd be that he gets an ult that drops a clone behind all enemies in range then allowing him to freely teleport to the clones for the duration, hitting the enemy in front

[Nazrethim]

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Doubt that a stance that would disable both, melee and gunplay would do more for his whole kit.

Technically you would go into melee mode, or not, and just turn it on, Teleport hold (which would initiate current bs) on the enemies then turn it off. And that''s if you bother to cast BS to begin with, and just initiating the teleport chain with your melee weapon, which would be the same as current BS.

1 minute ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

It would be nothing but a direct downgrade before getting nerfed dead alltogether.

It would actually be an upgrade to what we have now, both statistically and in gameplay. And we are already nerfed, so what gives?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

snip

Sry, really can't consider double/*tripple the damage (*by just not building for max range alone) on utility builds, beein able to use his whole kit and everything the game has to offer a nerf per se.

The rework made him different, not bad or any worse, seeing how you can go for full status effectivity alone (It just won't get any better then Maiming strike combo+invisibility boosted slash proccs on viral affected enemys on the windows you don't just 1-shot enemys with his ult. If the damage on zero armor doesn't kill them then the slash sure will). He started off as aoe frame similar to old saryn/excal and was made a powerhouse rivaling/surpassing chroma. And you wanna make him a excal again.

excal/saryn>chroma?...

Edited April 29, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

It doesn't remove the invisibility actually, you get invisible inside the cloud and for a few seconds after leaving it. Though I agree that 3s seems too short. I would prefer a 12s cloud with 8s lingering invi.

Honestly, I never understood why DE refuses to make smokescreen an actual smoke bomb, they have the resources to implement something like that, the only problem they will face is visibility issues for teammates.

[Nazrethim]

54 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Honestly, I never understood why DE refuses to make smokescreen an actual smoke bomb, they have the resources to implement something like that, the only problem they will face is visibility issues for teammates.

Just highlight enemies inside the cloud the way Zenith disc highlights them.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Sry, really can't consider double/*tripple the damage (*by just not building for max range alone) on utility builds, beein able to use his whole kit and everything the game has to offer a nerf per se.

Tripling the base cost is surely a nerf. And a big one, forcing everyone into efficiency just to use his ability the way it's intended.

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

The rework made him different, not bad or any worse, seeing how you can go for full status effectivity alone (It just won't get any better then Maiming strike combo+invisibility boosted slash proccs on viral affected enemys on the windows you don't just 1-shot enemys with his ult. If the damage on zero armor doesn't kill them then the slash sure will). He started off as aoe frame similar to old saryn/excal and was made a powerhouse rivaling/surpassing chroma. And you wanna make him a excal again.

It didn't change anything in playstyle. Sure casting smoke screen while on the move is nice and all, but BS remained basically the same. And we are not discussing Maiming meta build. He didn't start as an AoE frame really, it started as an enemy by enemy stab frame, then DE added clones to assist then they removed the clone assistance and tripled the base cost of the ability. Chroma? are you serious?

It wouldn't make him an Excal really, as the playstyle would be much different. Instead of basic E spam as Excal works, or slide spam macros as Valkyr works, Ash would require actual input from the player, while being just as, if not more, destructive that the aforementioned frames.

You clearly don't read, or read without understanding, otherwise you would notice the glaring differences.

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

excal/saryn>chroma?...

Excal is similar to Ash in some aspects, but Saryn and Chroma?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

 

Excal is similar to Ash in some aspects, but Saryn and Chroma?

Prior Bladestorm was aoe. His meta playstyle was nothing but this, even if you did go ahead playing him different. All the combo that wasn't generated by or used by bladestorm was in vain. That's the reason they changed it. Saryn was the same kinda p4tw frame back then. Offtopic but it's sad they never bothered fixing the poison scaling on the spores. She would be a A++ battlemage if it actually work like the alpha version of the rework that's still in the wiki.

Chroma is a offtank that amplifies weapon damage and that's exactly what Ash can be played as too if you're not too darn fixed on marking enemys or avoiding his ult. Bladestorm perfectly substains combo now (without rewarding you for p4tw), no matter if you play gun or melee. This paired with invisibility and the option to skyrocket slash proccs with 2 seperate weapon layouts adding Viral and ideal slash from your melee weapon, amplified by his passive and even dimishing armor brings his weapon damage to the absolute broken peak this game allows it to be while not wasting a single move he makes by having the default damage BS gives you. Chroma as the strongest accepted weapon buffer thus stands on a common ground with ash who simply trades the tankiness with invisibility.

 

And does your point really matter considering how biased you are towards Ash's current state? Tone down your ambitions a bit before expecting people to do anything beyond eather shipping it or not. You don't like it is all i see while you go ahead taking ever opportunity to paint him worse then he is. You might as well say so instead and spare me the details.

Edited April 29, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Prior Bladestorm was aoe. His meta playstyle was nothing but this, even if you did go ahead playing him different. All the combo that wasn't generated by or used by bladestorm was in vain. That's the reason they changed it. Saryn was the same kinda p4tw frame back then. Offtopic but it's sad they never bothered fixing the poison scaling on the spores. She would be a A++ battlemage if it actually work like the alpha version of the rework that's still in the wiki.

I was talking about the First iteration of Blade Storm that was like current BS with previous BS marking system and without clones finishing the job (for additional cost).

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Chroma is a offtank that amplifies weapon damage and that's exactly what Ash can be played as too if you're not too darn fixed on marking enemys or avoiding his ult. Bladestorm perfectly substains combo now (without rewarding you for p4tw), no matter if you play gun or melee. This paired with invisibility and the option to skyrocket slash proccs with 2 seperate weapon layouts adding Viral and ideal slash from your melee weapon, amplified by his passive and even dimishing armor brings his weapon damage to the absolute broken peak this game allows it to be while not wasting a single move he makes by having the default damage BS gives you. Chroma as the strongest accepted weapon buffer thus stands on a common ground with ash who simply trades the tankiness with invisibility.

Well, in your bubble of metabuild max efficiency, yeah, Ash is awesome. I propose you an excercise: set your stats at 100% (default cost/values) and remove Naramon/Zenurik+event mods from the equation. Now start a high level mission, presumably an endless mode, and see if you can keep up your playstyle for a 60min survival/interception. You wont, because you are entirely reliant on max efficiency.

You still miss the point I made a hundred times: That something works doesn't mean it's right.

Can he pull his own weight on nearly any mission? yes, but that doesn't mean he is right.

1 hour ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And does your point really matter considering how biased you are towards Ash's current state? Tone down your ambitions a bit before expecting people to do anything beyond eather shipping it or not. You don't like it is all i see while you go ahead taking ever opportunity to paint him worse then he is. You might as well say so instead and spare me the details.

I never painted him worse than he is, I paint him as he is. Again, step down of your metabuild bubble and see the frame is not right as it is. Also, play conclave if you don't believe me how his abilities are all nearly useless there, all the issues I mentioned? they are all there, and I'm not the only one who sees them. You may be in denial, but I'm not. DE nerfed Ash, that was the whole point of the "revisit". You don't agree on a Stance ultimate? fine, but don't pretend the problems aren't there. I've seen many many suggestions, ranging from old school nukes to clone summoning to super smoke clouds, they all adressed a few issues, but fell short in some critical area or other. Stance ultimates fell into the same, but those who know better realised that a Stance ultimate could actually be tailored to fix the problems and was the path with less developing requirement.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

snip

^^ that's what we gonna measure on? Really? Name one frame that can Solo Cc/survive and kill in the most extreme envirement you can immagine.

And don't you start naming frames using covert lethality. "That's a tool and got nothing to do with the frame"

 

Not even to mention that you're starting with this "butt naked tank complains about dying" kinda argumentation all over again.

 

Edited April 29, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

8 hours ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Honestly, I never understood why DE refuses to make smokescreen an actual smoke bomb, they have the resources to implement something like that, the only problem they will face is visibility issues for teammates.

 

7 hours ago, Nazrethim said:

Just highlight enemies inside the cloud the way Zenith disc highlights them.

 

I explained it on the post, its not like an actual smoke screen. like in the pictures the effects only reaches up your knees but it does reduces accuracy on enemies.

Also on the post i explain why i wouldnt make it a full on smoke screen.

[(PSN)LastDoomKnight]

4 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

^^ that's what we gonna measure on? Really? Name one frame that can Solo Cc/survive and kill in the most extreme envirement you can immagine.

 

Nidus, limbo lol

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

38 minutes ago, (PS4)LastDoomKnight said:

Nidus, limbo lol

Did you....did you ever play any of those or do you just read trough the forums?

Nidus falls off HARD and limbo got his...what is it now? Second or third nerf recently and they're still going at it.

[(PSN)LastDoomKnight]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Did you....did you ever play any of those or do you just read trough the forums?

Nidus falls off HARD and limbo got his...what is it now? Second or third nerf recently and they're still going at it.

What are you even talking about? Lmaooooo. Nidus scales insanely well, and just slap on the rift torrent augment for limbo and you got endless CC and huge damage. Have YOU ever played these frames?

[W01fe]

His 4 is useless outside of regenning shields and his 1 is only useful if modded and only of cp isn't being used.  His 3 is only useful when modded. 

 

So his  only ability that is useful unmodded is Invisibility  and is worse than loki. 

[The_Sharp_Demonologist]

5 minutes ago, W01fe said:

His 4 is useless outside of regenning shields and his 1 is only useful if modded and only of cp isn't being used.  His 3 is only useful when modded. 

 

So his  only ability that is useful unmodded is Invisibility  and is worse than loki. 

Im guessing your talking about the old Ash correct?

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

1 hour ago, (PS4)LastDoomKnight said:

What are you even talking about? Lmaooooo. Nidus scales insanely well, and just slap on the rift torrent augment for limbo and you got endless CC and huge damage. Have YOU ever played these frames?

Armor, auras and nullies kill nidus damage, nullies stacks too. Only thing his Cc is guaranteed on would be grineer only maps and he won't be able to keep the kills up like any other frame that can't bypass armor-any other fraction can and will hit trough his link.

Limbo works for now, untill DE decides to nerf his melee capability in the rift...he'll be a glass cannon with a stop and go mechanic then. -it gets complains enough. Just a matter of time.

 

There is just NO frame that can go solo endless without the stuff DE has given us for just this purpose and ash tops those. All of them.

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

13 hours ago, The_Sharp_Demonologist said:

Im guessing your talking about the old Ash correct?

No, he's pointing out Blade Storm doesn't cut it anymore (most likely due to stupid cost and eternal animation if you use it for the mass murder it's supposed to be designed for) and Teleport and Shuriken absolutely require Augments to be good (otherwise enemies resist the Finisher opening, ignore it or due to positioning you can't get the finisher; and Shuriken is only good to hit ospreys when you are in melee mode and BS is better to hit single enemies that can't be finished, which means BS overlaps with Shuriken and Teleport)

[MudShadow]

Just have Ash send his clones out and remove the kill cam.

Edited April 30, 2017 by MudShadow

[Nazrethim]

13 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Armor, auras and nullies kill nidus damage, nullies stacks too. Only thing his Cc is guaranteed on would be grineer only maps and he won't be able to keep the kills up like any other frame that can't bypass armor-any other fraction can and will hit trough his link.

I recall somebody saying something along the lines that Ash was fine because "hey, you can use a weapon with Viral and Maiming Strike dude!" and I'm 100% positive that applies to Nidus as well, or any other frame for that matter. And EVERYONE falls with Nullifiers. Mark enemies? Nullifier walks in dispelling them. Smoke Screen? bye bye! Teleport? can't cast it. Shuriken? bounces off the bubble and since you can't aim it (because it tracks whatever it F-ing wants) hitting the drone isn't a posibility.

13 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

Limbo works for now, untill DE decides to nerf his melee capability in the rift...he'll be a glass cannon with a stop and go mechanic then. -it gets complains enough. Just a matter of time.

IF

13 hours ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

There is just NO frame that can go solo endless without the stuff DE has given us for just this purpose and ash tops those. All of them.

Not even close.

I have the idea that you hate Ash, and don't want him buffed, otherwise you wouldn't oppose positive changes to him.

[Nazrethim]

Just now, MudShadow said:

Just have Ash send his clones out and remove the kill cam.

The problem is that it isn't interactive, just barely aim in the general direction and release. It would also be extremely broken or unbelivably sh*tty and useless in Conclave.

[MudShadow]

Just now, Nazrethim said:

The problem is that it isn't interactive, just barely aim in the general direction and release. It would also be extremely broken or unbelivably sh*tty and useless in Conclave.

The player is still controlling the character, so it is interactive. What we have now where the player loses control of actually playing the game, that's what you call not interactive. As for conclave, I don't think any abilities should be balanced around it because 99% of the game is about co-op.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I recall somebody saying something along the lines that Ash was fine because "hey, you can use a weapon with Viral and Maiming Strike dude!" 

No combo substain ~ thus no perma x4 multiplier skyrocketing the damage. 

Ash does not fall on nullies. 1 mark anywhere is enough, neather naramon nor trickery are affected and one boosted slide kills you nullies no matter the level. Anything else indeed falls on teleport, BS, shuriken amped damage.

And the topic was "frames that can perform without it". Try again.

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

 

IF

 

when

9 minutes ago, Nazrethim said:

I have the idea that you hate Ash, and don't want him buffed, otherwise you wouldn't oppose positive changes to him.

I main him and use his kit to perfection. Can you both say the same

Best comment so far btw.

>"i hate his ult" "he can't do anything without...."

>"you like him and don't want to feed my ego/ambitions him changed? You must hate him"

Bye guys, pushed this bs long enough.

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[Nazrethim]

Just now, MudShadow said:

The player is still controlling the character, so it is interactive. What we have now where the player loses control of actually playing the game, that's what you call not interactive.

Silly rabbit, what will happen is that people will just sit on their arses casting BS and nothing else. Sure we who play him to it's fulll will rampage trough enemy ranks as our clones destroy them.

Just now, MudShadow said:

As for conclave, I don't think any abilities should be balanced around it because 99% of the game is about co-op.

Doesn't mean it doesn't have to be considered. Unlike you, and many more, I want Ash to shine in both sides, so I throw ideas that would work in both modes, without being broken, unimpressive or useless.