Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Mordhekhai]

Personally, I think the rework was going in the right direction, but it could still be better. Running Ash with the new rework and I noticed a bug on melee mode where coming from an animation, I'm not able to melee with my Nikana Prime and every time I hit "E" I go on a previous animation which hinders me from moving anywhere. Has anyone experienced the same thing? 

[MistressMoonpaw]

13 minutes ago, (PS4)B0XMAN517 said:

Bladestorm is one of those moves close to my heart I never wanted to see them change. I can see why DE wanted to, though there are better press 4 to wins, but I really wanted this to stay as it was/has been. Of course, I grabbed my torch and pitchfork when DE joked about reworking desecrate in a dev stream and ended getting used to it.

well, the thing is, the desecrate rework made it better, this made bladestorm much worse. ((Why i think desecrate is better now: youre not rooted in one place anymore spamming 3 over 666 times a minute. You can move freely again and still desecrate))

[MistressMoonpaw]

17 minutes ago, LouseFur said:

So, Zell from FF8 had intercourse with an Ash? hmm...

I'd be up for the combo idea, but at the same time, that'd be hard to pull off.

Another take might be that you could execute bladestorm mid melee combo? I mean, the combo's already there, and the changes "shouldn't" be that severe... I hope.

I admit it might be "inspired" *cough* by Zell a little bit

[Doc-Orange]

The Ash rework is better than expected. The problem is, that it make an impressive frame to a mediocriate one. I think one single thing could change this. Let the twinks kill the enemies and Ash is running around and mark the next.

This was mentioned before from others and I totally like the idea. Imagine how cool this would be.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

8 minutes ago, Doc-Orange said:

The Ash rework is better than expected. The problem is, that it make an impressive frame to a mediocriate one. I think one single thing could change this. Let the twinks kill the enemies and Ash is running around and mark the next.

This was mentioned before from others and I totally like the idea. Imagine how cool this would be.

or better yet, using your shurikens to mark the next targets with a bleed proc.

[-Clem-]

Ash is an assassin frame, so I hoped his invisibility would be a little more towards that theme. I wouldn't make it last longer cause that's Loki's thing, if you take that it'll make Loki (the frame that uses only stealth abilities) less used cause you could get that with Ash's offensive powers. My idea for Smoke Screen would be, when it's used it opens enemies in range to stealth attacks for the duration of the ability (like blind). As for his 4 Id like to not have a cinematic, after enemies are tagged his shadow clones deal with them.

[Aeon94]

Bladestorm should be like " Mark and send Ashsassin clones to kill targets " instead of Massacre Cinematic. With this change we could use any other ability while letting our clones to kill targets with Bladestorm. No more cinematic much more fun ! :D

23 hours ago, Jackviator said:

it shouldn't make enemies invulnerable while they're trapped in the stabbing animations. It's just annoying to the rest of the squad

Also this ^

Shuriken should get new effect like " Makes enemies vulnerable and cause them to take 10% more dmg from any source (?) " and stuns targets for 1 sec

Agree with you , Smoke Screen needs more duration :)

Teleport is fine as it is and awesome with Fatal Teleport Aug

Edited November 27, 2016 by Aeon94

[JFSIMON]

All the contents below are my views , so they might be quite subjective .

 

Some people said Older-Blade-Storm is just like YouTube Ads ,

press 4 and wait for extremely long time , especially dealing with Ancient Disruptors .

 

Sooo... DE seemed to want to solve this problem . But , to me , it's just a Warframe nerf .

Since we must spend lots of time targeting multiple enemies before we got rekt ,

it's quite unfavorable when we are in emergency .

And , older one can eliminate twenty lv.100 Bombards ( I've succeeded about 2 or 3 times in Simulacrum ) ,

while current one has difficulties doing this .

Furthermore , YouTube-Ads problem is still not solved , we still need to wait after we activated that .

 

To my opinion , I suggest DE to do this , it's very simple :

Return the older one , while using Blade-Storm , press 4 again to stop the ability .

 

Maybe I'm just the one who don't want Ash to be reworked ,

because he can kill high-leveled enemies and Sentients , and I love him .

Though Smoke-Screen is buffed , but Blade-Storm is vastly nerfed , so I'm not happy about that .

If some of my written contents are incorrect , inappropriate or something like those , you can leave comments to tell me .

But , but , please , do not attack my point of view with your point of view , thank you .

 

By the way , DE , please nerf Sentients , I've been Instant-Killed when my shield and health are full , for countless times .

[Yaerion]

Just now, JFSIMON said:

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Teleported within: 

 

[Yaerion]

1 hour ago, Robert_Cop_2 said:

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1 hour ago, Aurea_Hiigara said:

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1 hour ago, LouseFur said:

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1 hour ago, LouseFur said:

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1 hour ago, VisionAndVoice said:

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1 hour ago, Varacal said:

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1 hour ago, LouseFur said:

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"Youtubestorm needs to go, Shuriken should scale off your secondary mods" was Teleported within 

 

[Yaerion]

3 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

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2 hours ago, SquidTheSid said:

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2 hours ago, Inugami999 said:

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"Ash rework idea - expanding more on his current rework" was Teleported within 

 

[Yaerion]

3 hours ago, AppleEyes said:

Hey guys i realy enjoy the new Ash Ultimate ability. But i would apriciate a counter down on his ability that shows how many enemys are marked. I use a dark purple colour energy that i really like but it is kind of invisible on the enemy when i try to ult them. I am just not sure if i have them in my ult or not. The counter would really help out with that problem. 

Teleported within 

 

[Fugana]

Id like to see when in target mode all colors to turn blacn and white and enemies red and black :) it will be much better in my opinion 

[Yaerion]

3 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Ive been exclusively using Ash's new premium skin since rework and it actually almost feels like im playing a new warframe. My play style has changed with him now too. Since ive been toying around with the new bladestorm, ive rarely been using my primary at all so that adds to the new character feel too.

Teleported within: 

 

 

[..F.E.A.R..]

On 11/25/2016 at 8:54 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

We decided to rework Blade Storm after almost a full year of the same themed feedback showing up. We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting. We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Blade Storm.

 but this reword didnt change that, an Ash player still has to press 4, mark targets and wait, the only difference is it became a lot slower to kill, even using shurikens is faster and when you think about it, why marking when i can just shoot my weapon, why using Ash at all then? this rework didnt change was whats intended but made the frame kinda anoying to use, slower to use

[Knightmare047]

What if, instead of Bladestorm consuming energy instantly, it shows how much energy is to be consumed on the Bladestorm icon and only consumes on the second cast? Like, when marking enemies, the icon shows how much energy is to be consumed based on how many marks are made like usual. But the energy is only consumed only upon activating Bladestorm again, to unleash it. Due to this, during the 'marking phase', Ash will then have more energy to use his other abilities while in the marking phase instead of not being able to due to the energy drain from all the marking. And if the energy is not enough to use Bladestorm with the energy cost stated, it will prioritize the enemies marked first. The energy refund will still be there if marked enemies die before Bladestorm is cast.

[Marwan_Green_Critter]

This is copied-and-pasted from a comment I've made in a YouTube video, and seeing people's reactions here, I though I'd share it here, too.

As an Ash Prime main myself, I can see why Ash fans are so upset over these changes, especially regarding how Blade Storm is no longer press-4-to-win anymore. All these whiners are upset over the fact that Blade Storm now takes extra effort to pull off than before. To me, it's not a big deal -- it's way more fun to shoot enemies in the face with your primary weapon than spamming the 4 key over and over again.

People need to calm down. Blade Storm isn't gone; it's just a little more difficult to use now.

Edited November 27, 2016 by Marwan_Green_Critter
Forgot to add the word "video" after YouTube.

[Kuvakei]

Having played Ash extensively before and after the rework, I have a few points to offer concerning the latter.

1) Shuriken remained unchanged but DE missed an opportunity with it. While in Bladestorm's marking phase, enemies hit by shuriken should get full marks. This would add synergy and an actual reason to use it beyond level 50, augment aside;

2) Smokebomb had all round great quality of life changes, it no longer breaks the flow of gameplay;

3) Teleport is still a bit too restrictive but I guess the augment compensates for this;

4) Bladestorm needs, IMO, another change to make it less clunky. As before the rework, when the skill ends, you end facing an almost random direction an sometimes, even a random location, which is very distracting and breaks the flow of gameplay. Changing it so only your clones attack when you end the marking phase so you retain full control of ash would make it far more reliable. Otherwise, the rework was spot on.

That being said, loving the rework thus far.

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

8 hours ago, Marwan_Green_Critter said:

This is copied-and-pasted from a comment I've made in a YouTube, and seeing people's reactions here, I though I'd share it here, too.

As an Ash Prime main myself, I can see why Ash fans are so upset over these changes, especially regarding how Blade Storm is no longer press-4-to-win anymore. All these whiners are upset over the fact that Blade Storm now takes extra effort to pull off than before. To me, it's not a big deal -- it's way more fun to shoot enemies in the face with your primary weapon than spamming the 4 key over and over again.

People need to calm down. Blade Storm isn't gone; it's just a little more difficult to use now.

Don't tell people to calm down. Did you pay for Ash Prime access because u like the original BS mechanism? This rework is NOT what players paid lots of money to see, no one asked for this..there are many brilliantly composed ideas to make Ash BS better. DE DID NOT use one of them..You dont get to chastise anyone with "calm down". This is not "BLADE STORM"...its a toggled mini game. 

Edited November 28, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[SquidTheSid]

17 minutes ago, Marwan_Green_Critter said:

This is copied-and-pasted from a comment I've made in a YouTube video, and seeing people's reactions here, I though I'd share it here, too.

As an Ash Prime main myself, I can see why Ash fans are so upset over these changes, especially regarding how Blade Storm is no longer press-4-to-win anymore. All these whiners are upset over the fact that Blade Storm now takes extra effort to pull off than before. To me, it's not a big deal -- it's way more fun to shoot enemies in the face with your primary weapon than spamming the 4 key over and over again.

People need to calm down. Blade Storm isn't gone; it's just a little more difficult to use now.

You forgot the part where it takes 2-3 times as much energy post rework as it did pre-rework and how it deals the same damage, despite requiring extra setup AND it forces you into the same awful canned animations. 

DE really had a chance to do something special with marks, but it's just a straight up nerf that doesn't make him all that much more fun. Like, marks could track enemies through walls and cover, make them appear on the minimap, make them provide bonus affinity, etc. (as in, Ash marks his targets) or maybe make them even take bonus damage per mark (so it's a tradeoff of doing a high damage attack or making enemies much squishier). Also, the animation needs to go. I understand that some people like it, but the cinematic kills aren't healthy for the game.

 

 

 

[blasron]

I found ash boring to play with and now i find it even more boring to play with. The only good thing that came out of this "rework" is that smoke bomb is in a better place.

[-dicht.Amducias-]

Bladestorm is simply useless now.. its a damage ability, no cc and LoS damage abilities are useless in warframe

[----Fenrir----]

1 hour ago, Marwan_Green_Critter said:

 To me, it's not a big deal -- it's way more fun to shoot enemies in the face with your primary weapon than spamming the 4 key over and over again.
 

Then what is the point in playing Ash? If you want to shoot people in the face with your primary, there are way better frames for that. Ivara and Loki have better invisibility. And frames like Rhino, Nova, Mirage or Banshee, can increase the damage you deal with your primary weapon. What can Ash do? Look pretty with his new skin?

The problem with the current Ash is that there is no point in playing him anymore. The new Bladecrawl is so bad and clunky that it's not worth using. And that basically means the only role the new Ash can fill is a poor man's Loki without Disarm.

Edited November 27, 2016 by ----Fenrir----

[Tengu_Bruxo]

Hello again Tenno,

 

3.5 year Ash player here..

Now that I’ve spent most of the weekend testing and playing Ash with the new Re-work, I still stand by my pervious assessment. Here is what I wrote earlier, https://forums.warframe.com/topic/725161-ash-revisited-feedback-megathread/?page=19#comment-8085895

I’ve been lurking most of the weekend to see where the community stands with the current re-work. Some have been negative without posting solutions to the problems that they feel need addressing. But, some have posted some really incredible idea’s that I feel could be implemented to Ash’s abilities.

The mark system I feel is a great addition, but I feel that it can be taken further. Let’s say the mark also places some kind of party wide debuff on the target. Similar to how Nova’s prime either slows or speeds up the target, as well as the increased damage that she brings. I’m not saying that the targets should explode, but maybe they take increased slash damage, or suffer longer slash proc duration. Not really sure what this should equate too. This way Ash could see more use at higher levels

Shuriken is a good ability as it stands, a bit bland but good none the less, maybe place something along with it, such as targets become marked when hit by shuriken. That would give Ash players a reason to use that skill again.

Smoke bomb is in a great spot now.  I feel that the recent changes have really improved this skill.

Over all I feel that the energy cost for Bladestorm is still a bit high, as compared to the previous iteration. But with that said, I like the synergy that the marking system has with smoke bomb. An interesting thing that I’ve found about the new bladestorm is when Ash’s clones are attacking a target, they suffer from a mild CC that leaves them staggered. I like this, and it seems fit my proposed rework.

I feel that bladestorm should have a name rework, to maybe either Smoke Storm, or shadow clones, something along those lines, because I feel that Ash should be removed from the cinematic aspect of the ability and allow his clones to remove the targets while the player still has control of Ash. This way it allows more active play, helping with objectives, helping downed players, marking more targets (debuffing them) to help overall party dynamics etc.. now with what I said above, with the mild CC this could really help Ash players, as well as other Tenno in the group. 

Anyway, I’m excited to see if DE makes a few tweaks in order to help Ash, as well as the player base,

Have fun Tenno

Edited November 27, 2016 by Tengu_Bruxo

[Sar.K.Asmus]

3 hours ago, Marwan_Green_Critter said:

This is copied-and-pasted from a comment I've made in a YouTube video, and seeing people's reactions here, I though I'd share it here, too.

As an Ash Prime main myself, I can see why Ash fans are so upset over these changes, especially regarding how Blade Storm is no longer press-4-to-win anymore. All these whiners are upset over the fact that Blade Storm now takes extra effort to pull off than before. To me, it's not a big deal -- it's way more fun to shoot enemies in the face with your primary weapon than spamming the 4 key over and over again.

People need to calm down. Blade Storm isn't gone; it's just a little more difficult to use now.

Players complain about watching a (long) cinematic animation instead of actually playing since Blade Storm exists.

First DE response to these complains: Added 2 Clones (they weren't always there) to speed up the animation. Players further complained about being stucked in a (long) cinematic animation.

Second DE response to the same complains: Attack speed mods on your melee increase the cinematic animation speed. Players are still complaining about being stucked in a (long) cinematic animation.

Third DE response to the same complains: Decrease the casting speed by introducing a "Mark Enemy" mode.

The so called "whiners" are still complaining about the same thing, they are complaining for 3 years now and as it seems have to complain for more years.

 

Edited November 27, 2016 by The-Tective