Ash Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Flaezon]

8 hours ago, Hypernaut1 said:

If you're only getting 10% of squad kills then the problem is you and not Ash. Personally I'm glad that  mindless spammers will move on to another frame.

nope, we did some tests and runs using the same primary weapon, of course you can have the half of kills with a synoid simulor, ignis, amprex, vaykor hek, so where is the utility of Ash? we decided that Ash will be a LU warframe or just quite decent to use in some spy, sabotage missions, but not as a dps.

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

On 12/16/2016 at 10:55 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

teammates are killing enemies faster than you can BS, then BS isn't even needed anyway. Why should you be using your 4 to delete rooms if your squad mates are easily dispatching them with their weapons anyway?

Your absolutely correct, with an experienced squad BS rework is never needed. 

 

On 12/16/2016 at 10:55 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

When I'm playing sorties and players aren't just cruising through rooms, BS helps a lot.

No, because unnecessary cut scene

On 12/16/2016 at 10:55 AM, Hypernaut1 said:

especially when the team is easily handing everything.

 Because Ash has nothing to contribute, Ash was the dps "tip of the spear" but not anymore. 

Edited December 17, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[Harikusa]

I see that there is no point of trying to read this thread or post ADEQUAT feedback because there's only random useles comments. Great as usual.

[GTX49]

81 pages of feedback and another update that hasn't fixed anything with this abomination of a rework..

Come on DE

[TrinityPrime]

28 minutes ago, GTX49 said:

81 pages of feedback and another update that hasn't fixed anything with this abomination of a rework..

Come on DE

I suspect megathreads are where opinions get buried so they can die, not to get organized and read by devs.

Is it wrong to even have this thought?

Edited December 16, 2016 by TrinityPrime

[GTX49]

40 minutes ago, TrinityPrime said:

I suspect megathreads are where opinions get buried so they can die, not to get organized and read by devs.

Is it wrong to even have this thought?

Nope, it's not wrong.

[BMJY1000]

6 hours ago, trunks013 said:

First Wall of text are prety hard to read ^.^

Second welcome to the forum tenno ;)

Third : Its always up to personal taste i rly love the new blade storm it allows tenno to play with more interaction and the feeling is quite good imo ^.^ 

Have you tryed marking a whole map and then just sit while they all die ?

 

 I've tried that, but I ran out of energy before I get to the half of it. It doesn't feel good. Stop lying. It's lame. If players want interactivity, then they should get good using Teleport. Blade Strom is meant to save players from a tight pinch.   

 

 

 

[AKKILLA]

On 6/14/2016 at 6:04 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

Blade Storm Changes:

• Blade Storm now has a new 'Mark Enemy' mode that is activated when you hit 4. Ash enters target mode, which you can freely target enemies with your reticule up to 3 times each for attack. Once you're satisfied, press 4 again, Blade Storm begins and all targeted enemies are attacked!
• Each mark costs Energy (15) which is affected by Mods. If a marked enemy is killed by a squad mate, you will get the energy back. 
• Marks made while invisible by any source will have a cheaper base cost (10). 
• Enemies killed by Blade Storm will dissolve, leaving no corpse behind to detect!

Teleport Changes:

• Teleport will now allow you to target anything with a health bar! Instead of being limited to Teleporting to allies or enemies, you can now teleport to objects. 

Smokescreen Changes:

• Smoke Screen can now be cast while running (no lower body movement lock).
• Smoke Screen can now be cast while in-air! 

Blade Storm isnt interactive at all this rework only moderately removed spamming it and now players actually build duration on Ash as im hearing. 

Blade Storm is better off being a Stance Ultimate. Press 4 to Activate and make decisions how and what to kill, while allowing players the decision to use his other abilities in Blade Storm. This needs a complete Over Haul in looks and Animations which are terribly outdated but still loved by nostalgic Ash fans. Im sure a better Blade Storm can be created without changing the name. Keeping his similar concept and his Shadow Clones as well

Smoke Screen  missed a slight concept, AoE Cloud/Fog! This would have innovated Ash entirely as a Solo to Team oriented Player. Allowing him to do both. Help out team mates and stun lock hordes in place for some Crowd Control. Plus this adds two synergies one with Smoke Shadow, allies can enter late casts instead of being used as a Revival tool. Ash can also Teleport to Smoke Screens as they will have a life bar indicating its duration per say. Allowing Ash to teleport to smoke clouds Instantly! Keep Ashs same Incisibility duration and mechanic. Forcing Ash to sit I side the cloud to remain invisible will ruin his mobility in Warframe.  

P.S. made No sense imo to allow Blade Storm Attacks in Stealth/Unalerted Invisibly off Smoke Screen/Trickery/Shadow Step to not Alert enemies but it doesnt proc Stealth Affinity Multipliers! Yeah a Stealth Warframes Ultimate thats practically a Super Stealth Finisher doesn't benefit from this? I think that would innovate how most Ash players play no? Quick Stealth Blade Storm Kills! I need gore too. Idk Why Blade Storm doesn't dismember enemies to bits. that be eye candy

Edited December 17, 2016 by AKKILLA

[trunks013]

On 12/16/2016 at 5:45 PM, BMJY1000 said:

 I've tried that, but I ran out of energy before I get to the half of it. It doesn't feel good. Stop lying. It's lame. If players want interactivity, then they should get good using Teleport. Blade Strom is meant to save players from a tight pinch.   

 

 

 

Then get invis and use container ^.^ 

Not lying i rly enjoy the new ash

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

All in all, I don't think his rework is bad, but one thing I would like to see changed about his blade storm is how vulnerable it leaves him while you're marking enemies. Yes it's true you can use smokescreen but even on a duration build it still doesn't last very long. Arcane trickery works great but normally you'd have to use bladestorm for it to activate. Any possibility of giving him a small invulnerability period while marking?

[Nazrethim]

Or... make entering Blade Storm pause Smoke Screen duration (only SS though) until the stabby spree is over.

Edited December 18, 2016 by Nazrethim

[-VM-Blaspheme]

It needs another rework, too much exposure on the marking, I can't seem to find a way to play it anymore to be honest, and I also fell that before, it was just too pew pew, way op. But now, I dont see how it can be viable in high lvl. at least as in BS builds

[SemperSupra]

I still dislike the bladestorm rework and no long care to play that frame. I suppose it's it's time to find another frame. Why didn't DE just give that target mode to another frame and leave bladestorm alone?

[(PSN)Smooth81Criminal]

6 minutes ago, Wearnopanties said:

It needs another rework, too much exposure on the marking, I can't seem to find a way to play it anymore to be honest, and I also fell that before, it was just too pew pew, way op. But now, I dont see how it can be viable in high lvl. at least as in BS builds

I've used it on high levels, can still work very well if you have an intensify and transient on with either his blade storm augment or blood rush. Just have your melee weapon equipped.

[Nazrethim]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Knuckles2184 said:

I've used it on high levels, can still work very well if you have an intensify and transient on with either his blade storm augment or blood rush. Just have your melee weapon equipped.

Rising Storm is pretty trash actually. It gives 100% base combo counter, meaning only 3s. But BS works with Body Count and Drifting Contact, so Rising Storm is pretty much pointless.

[RunningTree3]

1 hour ago, Nazrethim said:

Rising Storm is pretty trash actually. It gives 100% base combo counter, meaning only 3s. But BS works with Body Count and Drifting Contact, so Rising Storm is pretty much pointless.

Rising Storm should be changed to grant additional 1/2/3/4 to melee combo counter for each strike. At max, each single mark-strike increases counter by 5.

(This actually mirrors Surging Dash, but similar augments for different abilities are not without precedent, namely Seeking Shuriken & Sonic Fracture)

[Hypernaut1]

im still seeing plenty of Ash players and people are doing fine with him. I do wish DE can sort out the blind hate from actual feedback and give BS a few QoL tweaks. Like reduced enemy accuracy on Ash after BS, and some synergy with his 1

Edited December 18, 2016 by Hypernaut1

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

^Ive seen 2 Ash players since the BS nerf on console, Hes never in the Sorties, U never see Ash players in raids anymore. I have yet to see a Ash player run a successful 80-100 kuva flood farm and Last time I saw one try, he was just a nuisance always waiting on him to finish his "hey look at me mini movie" or reviving him. The cinematic is tiresome and played out. DE, Ninjas CAN summon shadows to kill(every fictious ninja video game ever made), make his BS LoS and get rid of the cenimatic and the death marking,  Please.

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[DEATHLOK]

Lots of glee that yet another Warframe got smashed with the Nerf Hammer. Maybe it will be your favorite frame, next.

I'm not wasting time targeting for BS. And if it is such a great gaming mechanic, they should put it on every other Warframe, too.

The best thing that could possibly happen to Ash at this point is for someone over at DE to devote the resources to scrapping his 4th and come up with something new, just as they did for Excalibur. Otherwise, I'll never use the frame again. There is no longer anything special about him.

Edited December 19, 2016 by DEATHLOK

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

13 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

Lots of glee that yet another Warframe got smashed with the Nerf Hammer. Maybe it will be your favorite frame, next.

I'm not wasting time targeting for BS. And if it is such a great gaming mechanic, they should put it on every other Warframe, too.

The best thing that could possibly happen to Ash at this point is for someone over at DE to devote the resources to scrapping his 4th and come up with something new, just as they did for Excalibur. Otherwise, I'll never use the frame again.

Absolutely agree, Ash really has nothing Loki cant do better with a Riven or (properly) Moded Primary or a Properly modded melee. Thats probably why ive seen such a plethora of Lokis since the rework. lol

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

Like reduced enemy accuracy on Ash after BS,

Yeah trickery will not proc anymore during his BS lol, Leaving Ash vary vulnerable. That "godly melee" build wont help you there. My new nickname for ash is "runaway ash" lol Thats all i see when i do see a ash player..😂

Edited December 19, 2016 by (XB1)FCastle74

[CY13ERPUNK]

On 6/14/2016 at 5:04 PM, [DE]Danielle said:

We decided to rework Blade Storm after almost a full year of the same themed feedback showing up. We often heard and experienced a power that doesn't allow for player participation beyond pressing 4 once and waiting. We have been increasingly committed to participatory powers (especially ultimates) and focused on emphasizing that for Blade Storm.

Blade Storm Changes:

• Blade Storm now has a new 'Mark Enemy' mode that is activated when you hit 4. Ash enters target mode, which you can freely target enemies with your reticule up to 3 times each for attack. Once you're satisfied, press 4 again, Blade Storm begins and all targeted enemies are attacked!
• Each mark costs Energy (15) which is affected by Mods. If a marked enemy is killed by a squad mate, you will get the energy back. 
• Marks made while invisible by any source will have a cheaper base cost (10). 
• Enemies killed by Blade Storm will dissolve, leaving no corpse behind to detect!

Teleport Changes:

• Teleport will now allow you to target anything with a health bar! Instead of being limited to Teleporting to allies or enemies, you can now teleport to objects. 

Smokescreen Changes:

• Smoke Screen can now be cast while running (no lower body movement lock).
• Smoke Screen can now be cast while in-air! 

Please note that we will be closely monitoring your practical feedback - please feel free to share videos and discussions after playing this rework. It'll help us if you include details on your build used too. 

Edit: Non-constructive feedback, dev-bashing, and any other content that violates Code of Conduct will be removed.

Edit: All related threads will be merged here. Thank you! 

ok so, been awhile since ive made a post in regards to the Ash rework [there was a lot of decent threads from back in the day when we knew the rework was in the pipes]

biggest gripe numero uno - bladestorm is functionally the same, but now takes more energy and more time/effort for the 'same' result - not exactly a stellar rework...

smokescreen was given the option of being used in mid-air, and i think that is great, animations be damned, BUT LOKI STILL CANNOT RADIAL DISARM IN MID-AIR =[

and teleport has more tgt-able options, woohoo

why not give shuriken some kind of synergy with bladestorm? ie shurikens are blades right?

ok so here's what i remember from the last time we had a thread about this : 

upon being hit by a shuriken, if not killed... an enemy is 'marked', a marked enemy takes 1.5x times dmg from any other ability that ash uses [ie the 2nd shuriken and 3rd and so on would continue to deal more and more stacking dmg to the tgt] enemies killed after being 'marked' refund 50% of the energy spent on the last ability that killed them {this only applies to ash and his abilities, not other friendlies/frames}

100 Energy - Bladestorm now ray-casts a LoS beam to any tgts within Ash's FoV as well as a set radius [ie 5/10/15/20m base rank] around his main target [ie whoever is in the crosshairs], these targets are now 'marked' ; ash then teleports to and backstabs his main target as well as summoning shadow clones to backstab each other 'marked' targets [ie any other enemies that were hit by the initial LoS/FoV ray-cast and set AoE around his main target] ; Ash summons a set number of shadow clones based on the rank of BS [ie 3/4/5/6] and each clone can only backstab a set number of enemies [ie 2/3/4/5], with the clones prioritizing enemies closest to the main target ; after the initial cast Ash will only be invul for the 1st backstab on his main target, then he is again vulnerable and player control resumes while the clones continue to make their rounds until they either run out of targets or run out of atks available ; unlike ash himself, the shadow clones are not invulnerable during their backstabs and can be destroyed by enemies [having hp/shld/armr somewhere between a loki decoy and saryn molt]

if Ash's main target is previously marked by shuriken before being targeted by BS, then the initial target will be double backstabbed twice [and of course extra dmg to them as well, and Ash stays invul for both of the backstab animations] ; additionally any target previously marked by shuriken and not yet dead and within the effects of BS and being targetted by the shadow clones but not Ash's main target would also take extra dmg

radius of AoE around the main target affected by range mods , number of shadow clones and atks affected by duration mods, and of course dmg affected by power strength mods

with the changes listed above ive solved the main gripe the majority of ash users have, being stuck in the loop of watching ash backstab countless enemies, over and over, being invul but unable to do much else besides watching the slideshow ; and ive added some much needed synergy to shuriken and given it a purpose to still be used in concert with the rest of his abilities ; yes by resuming player control this is more akin to WoF... in. some. ways., but its not a channel, and the clones can be killed, so it is definitely a unique ULT to Ash

IMHO its the best of all worlds, you have positive control of your targets, the ULT still does 'some' of the work for you, you arent stuck in invul/slideshow loop, and you can now watch your brethren shadow clones do the wetworks after you dispense with the primary target

one could argue somewhat that my suggestions undermine the existing shuriken augment, but i would counter that they moreso go hand-in-hand or side-by-side, but also lets be real, the vast majority of existing augments are unoriginal trash/filler and we'd all be much better off if a few/many of them were scrapped and we got more creative ones

[Hypernaut1]

56 minutes ago, (Xbox One)FCastle74 said:

 

Yeah trickery will not proc anymore during his BS lol, Leaving Ash vary vulnerable. That "godly melee" build wont help you there. My new nickname for ash is "runaway ash" lol Thats all i see when i do see a ash player..😂

yes it does

[Nazrethim]

6 hours ago, RunningTree3 said:

Rising Storm should be changed to grant additional 1/2/3/4 to melee combo counter for each strike. At max, each single mark-strike increases counter by 5.

(This actually mirrors Surging Dash, but similar augments for different abilities are not without precedent, namely Seeking Shuriken & Sonic Fracture)

I suggested something like that. Would make sense with the name too.

1 hour ago, Hypernaut1 said:

im still seeing plenty of Ash players and people are doing fine with him. I do wish DE can sort out the blind hate from actual feedback and give BS a few QoL tweaks. Like reduced enemy accuracy on Ash after BS, and some synergy with his 1

I think Blade Storm should "pause" Smoke Screen (and only SS) duration while it lasts. Could be a massive QoL and survivability boost.

[Hypernaut1]

1 minute ago, Nazrethim said:

 

I suggested something like that. Would make sense with the name too.

I think Blade Storm should "pause" Smoke Screen (and only SS) duration while it lasts. Could be a massive QoL and survivability boost.

that could be an option.

This is the kind of dialogue we need though, not any of this "Ash is totally useless now" exaggeration.