What Will Warframe Riven Mods Mean For Warframe Reworks?

[BornWithTeeth]

Right, first off, Riven mods for Warframes are coming. They may not be here for a few months, and they may not be called Riven mods when they arrive, but they are coming. You know this. I know this. Digital Extremes know that we know.

 

I personally think it's a completely terrible idea, but by now it can't be stopped.

 

The justification for Riven mods now is that they serve to bring older and less used weapons back into a tier of power where they can be used for serious missions. Riven Disposition is the mechanism by which weapons are sorted for strong or weak Rivens. As yet, Riven Disposition still does not really work, and won't work until it is no longer possible for weapons with high Disposition to roll damage buffs at all, but they're still iterating as of the most recent hotfix. We'll see.

 

What the hek does that mean for Warframes? Are DE going to come right out and say "We're not going to buff older, less used Warframes. We're introducing 'Warframe Disposition', a mechanism which recognises that some Warframes just are not as strong as others,"?

That also ties into the problem of multiplicative stat increases. A Riven mod which gives +160% Armour to Zephyr is trash, because she has base 15 Armour. A Riven which gives 'only' +100% Armour and some bonus Power Duration to Valkyr would be godlike, simply due to the difference in base stats.

 

Rivens cannot sub in for Warframe reworks, and yet the idea of reworks is that every Warframe should be playable and have a purpose. Basically...when DE release Rivens for Warframes, is that going to be a statement that some Warframes are just bad and are not going to be fixed?

[Weidro]

What Will Warframe Riven Mods Mean For Warframe Reworks?

let me explain

DE stated clearly that NO content will be balanced around the riven mods
no one needs to have riven mods
they are just the icing on the cake

riven mods will be balanced around the contend not the other way around

[Za_Rain]

riven mods for warframes??? they said the new riven mods are for shotgun and secondary

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

I expect the frame riven mod stats to be all exilus mod-related.

Slide friction, knockdown recovery, enemy radar, etc.

That would increase the demand for exilus adaptors.

Edited December 22, 2016 by (PS4)Magician_NG

[BiancaRoughfin]

I hope Warframe Riven mods dont actually come out and should they do, i dont believe they will be Much different from some corrupted mods we already own. Tho it would be very tempting having a mod that gave +HP, +Shield and +Duration for my Zephyr, they would have to be quite limited not to break the game.

[Zamio]

Today in General, we discuss the game wide implications of a system that is unannounced, we know nothing about, and is built on pure assumptions.

How about we wait until the thing is actually talked about, eh?

[BornWithTeeth]

4 minutes ago, Weidro said:

What Will Warframe Riven Mods Mean For Warframe Reworks?

 

riven mods will be balanced around the contend not the other way around

That will be a true statement when Riven Disposition is fully functional and god mode Rivens for high meta weapons no longer exist. That is not (yet!) the case.

 

Also, hang on a second, I'm gonna quote myself from a thread back in June, responding to the nerf of Mirage's disco ball:

 

"I'm pretty sure that they did not originally intend for people to use Corrupted mods to maximise Efficiency, drop Duration, and use blind Prism every four seconds to keep an entire map indefinitely blinded. That is a game design decision which I would call 'questionable', or possibly 'pants-on-head, gibberingly moronic'. It is far more likely that they did not envisage someone sitting in one spot spamming Prism for upwards of half an hour like a goddamned robot in order to avoid actually having to play the game and, you know, fight enemies.

 

It is permissible for game designers to use patches to fix oversights."

 

They nerfed the hell out of some Warframe abilities, which those abilities did have coming, this is true! But the abuse of those abilities was heavily assisted by maximised builds using Corrupted mods which boost and drop Warframe stats. In other words, that right there is evidence of a balance change to the game in response to power abuse made possible through Corrupted min maxed builds.

 

Rivens for Warframes will be Corrupted mods on 'roids, and will be more problematic than weapon Rivens.

Edited December 22, 2016 by BornWithTeeth

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

4 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

but by now it can't be stopped.

any official info i missed? if so: terrible, terrible idea. riven mods in general and for warframes in particular. inconceivable.

[Weidro]

Just now, BornWithTeeth said:

That will be a true statement when Riven Disposition is fully functional and god mode Rivens for high meta weapons no longer exist. That is not (yet!) the case.

riven disposition doesn't matter

you asked about what the mods mean for warframe REWORKS not if there will be some broken and overpowered ones
although who said that the stats for frames are efficiency or duration or range ?
we have fun stats like cold resistance or longer hacking time or longer bleed out

its all a matter about the chances to get each of the stats
and you know RNG is a *@##$

trust me DE will make sure it doesn't go out of hand

but back to your question about reworks
riven mods will mean nothing, absolutely nothing

[(PSN)Stanicek3]

8 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

I expect the frame riven mod stats to be all exilus mod-related.

Slide friction, knockdown recovery, enemy radar, etc.

That would increase the demand for exilus adaptors.

That actually doesn't sound terrible. As long as they're rarer than weapon rivens then I would be alright with this system.

Edited December 22, 2016 by (PS4)Stanicek3

[BornWithTeeth]

Just now, Weidro said:

 

trust me DE will make sure it doesn't go out of hand

but back to your question about reworks
riven mods will mean nothing, absolutely nothing

DE have already let Riven Mods for weapons run wildly out of hand. God mode Rivens for meta weapons, which DE suggested were never the intended outcome of the system at all, are now the most expensive things in trade chat by an order of magnitude. I mean that literally. A single god mode Riven for the Simulor or Soma can go for multiple times the cost of a Vaulted Prime Warframe set.

 

 

[Weidro]

7 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

Also, hang on a second, I'm gonna quote myself from a thread back in June, responding to the nerf of Mirage's disco ball:

-snip-

"I'm pretty sure that they did not originally intend for people to use Corrupted mods to maximise Efficiency, drop Duration, and use blind Prism every four seconds to keep an entire map indefinitely blinded.

duration doesn't matter for this since you can just activate it again when ever you want without the need to wait for some kind of duration

and please keep in mind that this game is still an indi title and in beta
if they fck something up they can just fix it whenever they want
and you can bet your live if its broken and matters they will fix it in no time
i remember cases where we contacted DE and they fixed our report in less than an hour

[------Solo------]

First convince DE to expand the mod slots on weapons - warframe then guess what mods will they release. Its practically stupid having craptons of mods when you can't use them.

[(PSN)Magician_NG]

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE have already let Riven Mods for weapons run wildly out of hand.

You must be one of those tenno who feel that power creep matters in PvE content.

[Weidro]

2 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

DE have already let Riven Mods for weapons run wildly out of hand. God mode Rivens for meta weapons, which DE suggested were never the intended outcome of the system at all, are now the most expensive things in trade chat by an order of magnitude. I mean that literally. A single god mode Riven for the Simulor or Soma can go for multiple times the cost of a Vaulted Prime Warframe set.

1. DE never said the balancing is done yet
2. i expect some changes soon^TM
3. and the prices are more about supply and demand

if everybody had these "god tier" mods the price would be ridiculously low
and as long as only a very small amount of players have these mods it doesn't have a huge impact on the game at all

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Weidro said:

duration doesn't matter for this since you can just activate it again when ever you want without the need to wait for some kind of duration

and please keep in mind that this game is still an indi title and in beta
if they fck something up they can just fix it whenever they want
and you can bet your live if its broken and matters they will fix it in no time
i remember cases where we contacted DE and they fixed our report in less than an hour

That's my point. Using exploding Disco Ball every few seconds to keep an entire map permanently disabled doesn't require Duration, it just requires lots of Range and Efficiency, so use a combination of Corrupted Mods to boost Range and Efficiency as much as possible, and let Duration go into the negative because it doesn't matter. Then spam Blind forever in a way which is palpably broken.

 

My point there is that that's a balance issue which was exacerbated by Corrupted Mods, but rather than balance the mods, they nerfed the 'frame. What's that kind of thinking going to do when they apply it to Warframe Rivens?

[Weidro]

1 minute ago, BornWithTeeth said:

My point there is that that's a balance issue which was exacerbated by Corrupted Mods, but rather than balance the mods, they nerfed the 'frame. What's that kind of thinking going to do when they apply it to Warframe Rivens?

and exactly that is the difference between riven mods and every other type of mod

you are required to have and use corrupted mods but not riven mods
content is balanced around corrupted mods but not around riven mods

that's all there is to say
like it or hate it but according to DE this is and will be the way how they handle riven mods

[The__Q]

3 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

My point there is that that's a balance issue which was exacerbated by Corrupted Mods, but rather than balance the mods, they nerfed the 'frame. What's that kind of thinking going to do when they apply it to Warframe Rivens?

The reason they nerfed the warframe instead of the mods was because

A: It was only one warframe that become horribly broken

And B: The mods themselves being nerfed would screw up a bunch of not-horribly-broken builds

[Extroah]

5 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

My point there is that that's a balance issue which was exacerbated by Corrupted Mods, but rather than balance the mods, they nerfed the 'frame. What's that kind of thinking going to do when they apply it to Warframe Rivens?

Nothing. We dont know the possible Stats yet so we can't even guess properly. (datamined stuff can't be trusted 100%) 

If they are like friction/aimglide/sprint speed Stats..no problem in sight. If they buff duration, strength, range, health, armor.. still, no problem in sight. Everything will stay exactly the way it is now, because all of their Mods are procentual-based. +500% Crit Chance on a Weapon with 1% base Crit Chance does nothing, we can all agree on that. That's the reason why nothing will change, nothing.

[ashrah]

riven for frames would be nice as long as they are stronger then any current  mod we have

[Etharien]

Where have they said they are adding warframe rivens? I recall in a second stream podcast, DERebecca said that there were no plans for warframe rivens, and that they were going to remain weapons only. On the other hand, if they said this somewhere i think it's a bad decision.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Etharien

[RoninJed]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)Magician_NG said:

You must be one of those tenno who feel that power creep matters in PvE content.

Lol...good meme.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, ashrah said:

riven for frames would be nice as long as they are stronger then any current  mod we have

That's...the problem. More power is the last thing we need. Right now, Tenno are so ridiculously strong that any increase in Warframe power serves no purpose other than masturbation over how much stronger we are now. That leaves DE with the option of balancing the game around the power creep, or rebalancing Tennopower vs enemy scaling. The existence of Rivens means that reworks and rebalances to the damage and modding system are going to be almost impossible to bring about.

 

That's my point. That Rivens exist at all means that the future of the game is nothing but power creep from now on, with no substantive rework or rebalancing.

[UvBenServed]

23 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said:

any official info i missed? if so: terrible, terrible idea. riven mods in general and for warframes in particular. inconceivable.

The only time I remember hearing DE talk about riven mods for warframes was during "The Second Stream Podcast" #7. They only talked about it for about 5 minutes. Rebecca said that riven mods are only going to be for weapons for the foreseeable future and all the guests they had on talked about how terrible an idea riven mods for warframes would be. So it sounds like we won't have to worry about this for a while, or possibly at all.

Of course they could always change their minds and add warframe riven mods tomorrow if they really wanted too. Who knows?

[Naftal]

46 minutes ago, Weidro said:

DE stated clearly that NO content will be balanced around the riven mods

This would mean that Warframe rivens will be broken OP.

I just hope they'll mechanically nerf the OP abilities before releasing the mods.

Edited December 22, 2016 by Naftal