Undying Nidus

[noupperlobeman]

1 hour ago, Fivey55555 said:

http://imgur.com/a/xpYe9
Yea, either you are bad at hitting your abilities, or I might not lack the experience with Nidus as many here suggest.

Ooh infested in a corridor.

 

 

Not all of us farm easymode. Get out of town

[MadHatHacker]

If I'm expected to sit in one place and hit enemies five hundred times to max out a resource gauge, you better give me a damn good reason to do so.

Oh wait.

[.Fire_Fly.]

just stop complaining that's all your doing. [ 2op4us ] is just a childish way of talking.

you don't like him don't play him see some one else playing him? Leave.

[Zamio]

Leave Nidus alone. He doesn't need any nerfs or buffs. Nidus is perfect as he is. He is challenging enough and doesn't dominate absolutely every game mode. He is the perfect example of what all frames should be. 

[45neo]

6 hours ago, Jobistober said:

I had already accounted for his +250 bonus armor when he builds his stacks in my calculation for his total armor rating of 1195.

(450 * 1.1) + 450 = 945 (Armor with Vitality)

945 + 250 = 1195 (Armor with Vitality and Armor Bonus)

This armor value gives Nidus a damage reduction of 80%. Now, I had not taken into account for Parasitic Link, but this buff is capped at 90%. With a health value of 1110 and 90% damage reduction, Nidus would then have an EHP of 11,100.

1110 / (1 - .9) = 11,100 EHP

So in that case, yes, he is coming close to the survivability of Inaros. Nidus deals more damage, whereas Inaros focuses on regaining health. I rather love the distinction in functionality and mechanics.

I have said this before I am not an advocate to Nidus being op... but your still not seeing the  big picture. 

The armor could be as you said... however it could be (and likely is)

(450 armor + 250 armor)*1.1 + (450 armor + 250 armor) = 1470 armor

this is a 83% damage reduction so then you account for the 90% parasitic link damage reduction and ehp looks more like

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.83)] = 65294.11

Even if the +250 armor does not stack with iron fiber then ehp is

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.799)] = 55223.88

Either way Inaros isn't close... the only frame that has more is Chroma with a potential ehp of over 100k

Which I guess with that being said anyone want to do a nerf chroma? But you see Chroma is obviously twice as tanky which means with a squad of chroma vs squad of Nidus.... pretty sure the Nidus squad will all eventually be one shot to death. And yet Chroma is balanced.... what does this mean? Nidus is therefore balanced.

Edited December 29, 2016 by 45neo

[Helsiege]

16 hours ago, Fivey55555 said:

 

Yes, this might look like an overkill, but it will make Nidus more challenging to play= more enjoyable

Nerfing his Undying doesn't make him more challenging. Adding more challenge would be to make something more difficult to achieve the same goal. Undying is (Exaggeration) a crutch. You don't want to die in the first place. Nidus is vulnerable without shields and Undying is a backup for when he does fall since he can be squishier than many other frames with shields. That's like suggesting to force walking only in relays to add to the realism since bullet jumping adds chaos and walking only adds to the realism. All this would do is add unnecessary nerfs when it's not a problem in the first place. You have to remember that while all frames (Besides Inaros) have a shield that can regenerate to full after 7-10 seconds, the only thing Nidus has is his passive health regen (It's only 13 per second at max which is relatively slow when you look back at shields) or he can use his 4th ability which forces him to stay in a small area if he wants to regenerate more health.

Making a consequence more punishing when nobody wants to face that consequence doesn't make him more challenging. Having abilities that work together and require careful planning of how to use abilities to be at peak efficiency is what makes  a warframe challenging (Which I believe DE did a great job on with Nidus).

[(XBOX)bigsnake84]

I haven't played Nidus being an unfortunate console bound Warframe player, but my Wukong can do what Nidus does. The difference? I can do it unlimited times with Rage, and i can do it immediately from the beginning to the end of a mission. Oh im running low on energy? "Hey you, shoot me! Thanks frienemy!" *Presses 2,2*

[Evanescent]

Not needed. It's immortality that needs to be built up and maintained, which is perfectly acceptable. It has be worth building and keeping those 100 stacks.

[MadHatHacker]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)bigsnake84 said:

I haven't played Nidus being an unfortunate console bound Warframe player, but my Wukong can do what Nidus does. The difference? I can do it unlimited times with Rage, and i can do it immediately from the beginning to the end of a mission. Oh im running low on energy? "Hey you, shoot me! Thanks frienemy!" *Presses 2,2*

Yeah, but Wukong is so... Boring.

[Jobistober]

1 hour ago, 45neo said:

I have said this before I am not an advocate to Nidus being op... but your still not seeing the  big picture. 

The armor could be as you said... however it could be (and likely is)

(450 armor + 250 armor)*1.1 + (450 armor + 250 armor) = 1470 armor

this is a 83% damage reduction so then you account for the 90% parasitic link damage reduction and ehp looks more like

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.83)] = 65294.11

Even if the +250 armor does not stack with iron fiber then ehp is

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.799)] = 55223.88

Either way Inaros isn't close... the only frame that has more is Chroma with a potential ehp of over 100k

Which I guess with that being said anyone want to do a nerf chroma? But you see Chroma is obviously twice as tanky which means with a squad of chroma vs squad of Nidus.... pretty sure the Nidus squad will all eventually be one shot to death. And yet Chroma is balanced.... what does this mean? Nidus is therefore balanced.

No, dude. There's no way DE is letting a frame out into the wild with a possible EHP 50,000 above the next highest contender. Parasitic Link buffs damage reduction up to a CAPPED 90%. It's not additive to the 83% or whatever armor value you have. And how does Chroma have an EHP over 100K? I don't know where you're getting the math for this, but the wiki indicates a max armor value of 3344, which is about 92% damage reduction. It's high, but no where near 100K EHP. EHP values that high would leave ALL other frames in the dust. There's just no way.

[Evanescent]

People, people.

For nidus to retain PL, he has to stay in a certain radius. His mobility is capped. 

Right off the bat he is squishy, especially in lategame missions.

[Tyrian3k]

Nidus is far more fun to play than most frames, since he's not a one trick pony. His abilities have a nice synergy to them. If there should be any nerf at all, I think it should be the amount of mutation stacks he can accumulate. He's a pretty slow starter, but once he gets going, he's pretty damn powerful.

It honestly seemed rather difficult to die at times when we got a little carried away with our gardening.

Spoiler

 

[45neo]

24 minutes ago, Jobistober said:

No, dude. There's no way DE is letting a frame out into the wild with a possible EHP 50,000 above the next highest contender. Parasitic Link buffs damage reduction up to a CAPPED 90%. It's not additive to the 83% or whatever armor value you have. And how does Chroma have an EHP over 100K? I don't know where you're getting the math for this, but the wiki indicates a max armor value of 3344, which is about 92% damage reduction. It's high, but no where near 100K EHP. EHP values that high would leave ALL other frames in the dust. There's just no way.

Dude... obviously your not in the loop... look on chroma's wiki entry in the warframe wiki... Also the damage reduction cap is FOR PARASITIC LINK ONLY, meaning yes it does include armor damage reductions.

[(XBOX)bigsnake84]

24 minutes ago, MadHatHacker said:

Yeah, but Wukong is so... Boring.

I agree. Nothing cool or fun about him other than flying.... Reeeaally slowly -_- Im just saying compared to a rage Wukong, Nidus' version of immortality sounds fair considering most wouldnt want to lose those stacks.

[evilfluffy]

16 hours ago, JustSneaky said:

Yeah just finished 2 hours high level solo infested run. I enter mission (lvl 50-60) pop up 2 1 + ulti..after few seconds already on 30 stacks. Within seconds! Then i just spam link (which is broken) to highest threat enemy, so link basically tank me my two hours run. I didn't even needed to find LS, because i kill so much of them. The highest threat for me was nulli, because it breaks link. Other than that it was actually boring. I leave willingly.

 

So yeah, he need a tweaks.

It PL broken because of the 90% dr because that means Equinox and Mesa need nerfs too then oh and rhino.  Basically by your point all frames that can reduce or ignore damage need a nerf.

Just no.

Edited December 29, 2016 by evilfluffy

[Madway7]

On Wednesday, December 28, 2016 at 10:50 PM, 45neo said:

I have said this before I am not an advocate to Nidus being op... but your still not seeing the  big picture. 

The armor could be as you said... however it could be (and likely is)

(450 armor + 250 armor)*1.1 + (450 armor + 250 armor) = 1470 armor

this is a 83% damage reduction so then you account for the 90% parasitic link damage reduction and ehp looks more like

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.83)] = 65294.11

Even if the +250 armor does not stack with iron fiber then ehp is

1110/[(1-.9)*(1-.799)] = 55223.88

I'm not sure about his 250 armor bonus from 5 stacks, but the 150 armor bonus does not apply to his base armor from levelling (just like with power, health and shield bonuses)

His armor with just steel fiber is 780 (300*2.1 +150) and not 945 (450*2.1) like it would be if it counted as his new base.

I think his armor with steel fiber and 5 stacks is probably 1030 since no ability or passive in the game adds base stats so far.

Edited December 30, 2016 by Madway7

[Jobistober]

Ok, I don't understand fuzzy math, so I'm not "in the loop", whatever that means. We're way off topic anyway. You think he needs a nerf. I don't Agree to disagree.

[45neo]

10 hours ago, Madway7 said:

I'm not sure about his 250 armor bonus from 5 stacks, but the 150 armor bonus does not apply to his base armor from levelling (just like with power, health and shield bonuses)

His armor with just steel fiber is 780 (300*2.1 +150) and not 945 (450*2.1) like it would be if it counted as his new base.

I think his armor with just steel fiber is probably just 1030 with the 5 stacks.

Huh.... that makes absolutely no sense...

[Madway7]

5 minutes ago, 45neo said:

Huh.... that makes absolutely no sense...

Sorry I mean apply *as base armor.

[marshmellory]

On 12/28/2016 at 4:07 AM, Fivey55555 said:

Got a suggestion for a nerf:

look, this might just be me, but if you're not even saying that he NEEDS a nerf and just that you have a suggestion for one then whats the point? go waste your time on somethings that more blatantly overpowered, like the simulor, and leave nidus alone.

[Xemgoa]

Well, I'm going to try and be as unbiased for this one, since I don't think you took into account of everything else that might have made your experience as to how you're immortal as Nidus. So, I'm going to offer some fair criticism, share my own thoughts on this, and challenge your views on it. Bear in mind this was all typed with a calm tone in mind.

1). I can't tell if your serious, obviously since I'm talking to someone I don't know, you're someone who came right out of the blue with this need for a nerf on Nidus, and I don't know you or your perspectives on what makes you think this nerf needs to happen. So I don't know if you're taking a jab at someones favorite Warframe just to get a reaction out of someone, or your exaggerating Nidus as this overpowered being.

2). Nidus has been balanced enough as it, his ability to scale is a inherit ability to him that allows him to grow stronger as more enemy lives are taken by his Virulence. Using his ability down narrow pathways is considered more smart thinking, than it is game breaking; that goes without debate, if you can figure out more and more ways to use both your powers and your gear in multiple ways than what is intended, you are fighting more efficiently and skillfully (except for game breaking situations that DE clearly makes note as a "no-no" and will address as such).

3). Nidus does indeed excel EXTREMELY well in missions that can last for a prolonged period of time, such as Excavation, Defense, Mobile Defense, Survival, and maybe some Assassinations where enemies keep pouring in; the summary is that missions where enemies keep coming in would mean Nidus has the potential to become stronger.

4). Even with his ability to get stronger through "adaptation stacks", he can still be downed quickly by very high leveled enemies, especially if they overpower Nidus with sheer numbers. You might not have taken into account that you may be dodging and evading very efficiently, and you took it into account as him being immortal: well darn, then that means Nidus didn't need the nerf-- might as well shackle a prison steel ball to our ankles.

5). But with that, outside of his element, by no means is he any less capable in a fight but... he would be unable to efficiently accumulate stacks to fight more effectively, if the missions are either brief or the enemy count is minuscule/fairly small, unless his team mates accommodate for Nidus and let him take the lead/get the kills to let him get some ability to use any of his powers. Even if his stacks are barely spent, once he accumulates enough, it allows him to remain versatile and deploy his abilities when it is necessary. They don't need to be all burnt through in seconds to feel like I am using them.

 

I'd like to think I might be a genuine fan of Warframe and not a "fanatical" person (there is a distinct, clear difference between the two) who will go completely off the wall and get extreme just because my feelings are hurt, and I will welcome only constructive criticism even if it's criticism that is negative; that being said, since I won't acknowledge vitriol comments meant to rustle my jimmies.

You're likely not a bad person, and I'm sorry if I came off as a jackass, I'm hoping you can share your perspective as to why this nerf is needed-- but also give into consideration every perspective you can think of when proposing nerfs/buffs like there.

Take care and cya then!

~Xemgoa

Edited February 1, 2017 by Xemgoa

[DeMonkey]

5 minutes ago, Xemgoa said:

~snip~

It's a month old dead thread, let it stay dead.

[Xemgoa]

It's a month old? I should have checked. My apologies ^^;

[kyori]

On 28/12/2016 at 11:43 PM, Kyronz said:

Careful of discussing nerfs, or they will make his abilities like bladestorm (designed for use in a turn based game).       They could go as far as making you mark targets for each maggot....LOL.

Yes they should make this a Markframe game for all frames. 

But seriously, why are there this group of players bend on reworking or nerfing everything? Is that their hobby to see everything gets nerfed? lol

[Evanescent]

Unnecessary. I like him the way he is, 15 stacks will hurt his damage when he is in the levels he will end up using undying in.