VentiGlondi Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 8 minutes ago, Naskoni said: I think you're missing point. DE doesn't want you to farm to get stuff for free (or even worse - by accumulating resources by playing casually), DE wants you to buy everything for plat instead. And since we, registered losers, refuse to buy (enough or most) stuff with plat (in a free-to-play game, the nerve!) DE is basically going along the lines of "Look at what you make us do to you!" You don't want to force your customers to pay, you want to encourage them. Trying to force anything will just result in backlash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plexus_brachialis Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, Naskoni said: I think you're missing point. DE doesn't want you to farm to get stuff for free (or even worse - by accumulating resources by playing casually), DE wants you to buy everything for plat instead. And since we, registered losers, refuse to buy (enough or most) stuff with plat (in a free-to-play game, the nerve!) DE is basically going along the lines of "Look at what you make us do to you!" ah yes, the good old 'DE has to eat'. i wish they'd stop eating for a moment and fix their game so they could eat more in peace. i understand. i understand they need to profit to continue making the game. and yet it looks like they keep on shooting themselves in all their collective feet when they pull things like this. who knows, maybe they want to move on. make a game that warframe should've been. or something else entirely. people are not spending enough money on game? i check these forums daily, and often see 'de i will throw my money to you for this' topics. mostly about cosmetics, to be fair, but if the cosmetics sell, DE, keep at it. expanding on the booster variety was a good move too. i was happy to spend my money on slots, and nice scarves, and boosters when i had long days to waste. im sure community could offer hundreds of idea on content they are willing to pay for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MirageKnight Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 18 hours ago, AntoineFlemming said: It's really easy for Steve to say that when he's only just started playing his own game. He's the Creative Director of Warframe dammit! He shouldn't be only just now starting to actually play the very game he created 4+ years ago! He should have been doing this from Day One to get an accurate feel for how other people would actually experience the game! Sorry, this just makes me so mad. The level of disconnect the devs have with their own game, not to mention their playbase, is extremely disappointing. That said, I really want Geoff, Steve, Scott, and Sheldon to stop coding for at least 2 weeks and do nothing but play their own game with new accounts during that time and take notes of anything and everything wrong. Every bug, every inconsistency, every bit of frustration, every little detail that says "this doesn't look / feel right". I also want them to share that experience with us players. I want to know how they, as actual players, feel about the entire Warframe experience. No cheat codes, no hacks, no internal builds of the game. The very build of the game all of us have to deal with. Then maybe, just maybe, they'd have some understanding of where we're coming from and then start doing something about the disjointed, frustrating situation they created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotsender_Quasimir Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 regarding DE's need for food and internal hierarchy i think it's an apt occasion to repost this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskoni Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 26 minutes ago, Kotsender_Quasimir said: regarding DE's need for food and internal hierarchy i think it's an apt occasion to repost this: Certainly worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 On 1/2/2017 at 8:02 PM, MrSpark_ said: DE wont change it, they dont want you to farm it. they want you to spend the money on plat to buy it And this is why I don't give this game another 2 years before it's dead. Think about it: how many times can you DO this? It's reaching a point where there aren't ANY rewards they DO want you to obtain by playing. So why play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackCoMerc Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 1 hour ago, MirageKnight said: He's the Creative Director of Warframe dammit! He shouldn't be only just now starting to actually play the very game he created 4+ years ago! He should have been doing this from Day One to get an accurate feel for how other people would actually experience the game! Sorry, this just makes me so mad. The level of disconnect the devs have with their own game, not to mention their playbase, is extremely disappointing. That said, I really want Geoff, Steve, Scott, and Sheldon to stop coding for at least 2 weeks and do nothing but play their own game with new accounts during that time and take notes of anything and everything wrong. Every bug, every inconsistency, every bit of frustration, every little detail that says "this doesn't look / feel right". I also want them to share that experience with us players. I want to know how they, as actual players, feel about the entire Warframe experience. No cheat codes, no hacks, no internal builds of the game. The very build of the game all of us have to deal with. Then maybe, just maybe, they'd have some understanding of where we're coming from and then start doing something about the disjointed, frustrating situation they created. Bravo. Well said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slaviar Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 I really don't know what's worse- devs not intending to do anything about Hema or pretending everything is fine. But I see quite a bit of people saying clans having problems with research should kick inactive players, invite active and/or downsize. Well, what about active three man ghost clans run by real (not friend list) friends? Or 14 man shadow clans? Even if they would find people who would be willing to farm mutagens why should they invite strangers to clan? Honestly, it resembles P2W. Because very few P2W games actually say something is cash only. Most pretend it can be acquired by playing but grind and time walls ensure it's not possible in reasonable time, and sometimes next to impossible at all. Even though Hema is obtainable without spending a dime amount of grind not fully active clan farming without boosters has to go through makes it look quite similar. Also, it's great DE honored people who worked hard to reroll Rivens when cap wasn't there. Oh wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)bigsnake84 Posted January 22, 2017 Share Posted January 22, 2017 (edited) Edit: BIG BUT to what my original post says, it does seem very toxic for big clans. Me having a ghost clan to myself i realize its much less stressful. So take my words for what singular players can do, i CANT speak for clan troubles at all Here's an idea, trade items for platinum and then buy the weapon. You'd be grinding but wouldn't be forced to grind one area mindlessly. You've got daily syndicates, relics, crap relics that can add up to ducats for selling Baro's items, or selling the relics themselves, invasion blueprints/parts, sorties (but i wont blame you for giving up on sorties, having received too much endo myself.... Oh wait! Endo for selling R10 mods!) Ayatan sales/R10 mod sales. Many ways to earn the weapon that can be more entertaining vs mutagen grinding. It wouldnt be getting bent over when you're spending EARNED platinum. Also you can wait for a coupon, im sure theres been plenty of times where a coupon was given and you were like "What should I save big money on?!" And then you settle for saving 10p on a catalyst lol And for those who say "Buying it is pointless, why pay to make the game go faster" THIS. This weapon right here is why. Besides, its not paying when you've EARNED it through a different form of grind. "Technically someone payed" but not YOU so why would you care? Edited January 22, 2017 by (XB1)bigsnake84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskoni Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 39 minutes ago, (Xbox One)bigsnake84 said: And for those who say "Buying it is pointless, why pay to make the game go faster" THIS. This weapon right here is why. Besides, its not paying when you've EARNED it through a different form of grind. "Technically someone payed" but not YOU so why would you care? Because buying it with plat basically guarantees (a lot) more weapons like it that will practically be ungrindable as to make people simply spend plat instead, bought or traded for, DE doesn't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liminal Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 59 minutes ago, (Xbox One)bigsnake84 said: Here's an idea, trade items for platinum and then buy the weapon. You'd be grinding but wouldn't be forced to grind one area mindlessly. In addition to encouraging more costs like this, this wouldn't complete the research. Sadly, this means you still may need to grind the samples in the future if the Hema research becomes a requirement for another item. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciaus Posted January 23, 2017 Author Share Posted January 23, 2017 My post from another thread, thought I'd share here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VentiGlondi Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 1 hour ago, (Xbox One)bigsnake84 said: Here's an idea, trade items for platinum and then buy the weapon. You'd be grinding but wouldn't be forced to grind one area mindlessly. Platinum is generated by giving money to DE. Even if you get it via trading, someone had to buy it at some point. If you trade items and buy Hema, the money someone spent on plat is being spent on Hema. Buying Hema with any sort of plat shows DE that this sort of thing works and gives them money, so expect more ridiculous resource costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhekemi Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 On 1/21/2017 at 9:19 AM, ChuckMaverick said: Pretty much this. Now matter how unpalatable you may think the truth is, the theories that will pop up in a vacuum of communication will always be worse. Just tell us how it is, most of us are grown up enough to take it. To add to that, while players are very good at identifying problems, it's much harder to do that when the goal of a change isn't communicated and we're left trying to analyse it with no context. Indeed. On 1/21/2017 at 9:42 AM, ChuckMaverick said: If DE had stated that they wanted to generate more income (assuming this is even the reason) then I would have been absolutely fine with that as a goal. At least players could then have had a sensible discussion about the best way to implement it that was fair to all and would make them feel good about their purchases rather than 'forced' into them. As I've said in other threads, I've spent more on Warframe than any other game (excluding WoW subs and xpacs, and those aren't optional) and every purchase I have made I have been happy with. They felt like genuine choices and not something that I had to do, and that is one of the aspects that I have always loved about DE and their monetisation approach for Warframe. Well said. On 1/21/2017 at 8:36 PM, taiiat said: idunno why rates in Derelict is all anyone is fixated on, rather than making Eris equal to Derelict to have more options for obtaining the Credit Type in question. which then increases the average amounts Players across the entire game will have by the time they are at a point where they will start Researching Hema. and for Players now means accruing some while completing the Solar Map, acquiring Nidus Parts, competing Quests for other Warframes that are located on Eris... Et Cetera. i don't know what discussion you want here though, 3/4 of what you wrote is not a discussion point. Agreed. I actually think a number of us did bring it up, but reducing the cost and addressing drop rates on Derelict were the top concerns. Diversifying drop locations would've been great. Focusing on it as a solution now, though, I'm not sure how much it will matter. DE's well beyond the point of considering any solution, because they don't see a problem. 18 hours ago, Ailissa said: I disagree with this being a reason. People are free to decide whoever they want to join their groups, nerfing the Lecta won't change that. In fact, nerfing it will probably make people more likely to demand them in a group because less credits means the need for more ways to make them. Chroma and Lecta will probably be a must have before long. You're probably not wrong, but how would this be any different than DE's stance on metas, and their wish to diversify squad compositions, weapons and the locations we play on the star map? (And the nerfs and/or balance changes that are used to enforce that.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zookes Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 20 hours ago, Naskoni said: I think you're missing point. DE doesn't want you to farm to get stuff for free (or even worse - by accumulating resources by playing casually), DE wants you to buy everything for plat instead. And since we, registered losers, refuse to buy (enough or most) stuff with plat (in a free-to-play game, the nerve!) DE is basically going along the lines of "Look at what you make us do to you!" 5k mutagen is a four-weekend, 8 total hours goal for 4 people without boosters. It is hardly such punishment. The sticker shock is a shock to this complacent clan culture, I think. Also the one-man clans suffer. This is bad? I am unsure, tho I believe clan members for a very long time have few reasons to work together and have now at least one. The result bringing complacent warlords into greed, and needy leeches to those warlords who beg for entry and must pay. This will soon pass tho, I think. Who knows? This was maybe a calculated result and DE wishes for large clans to purge and downsize - and for one-man clans to find members - for upcoming updates in this year of "making clans great again". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 55 minutes ago, Zookes said: Who knows? This was maybe a calculated result and DE wishes for large clans to purge and downsize - and for one-man clans to find members - for upcoming updates in this year of "making clans great again". As you say, "Who knows?", because DE certainly didn't give any reason for the exceptional resource costs of the Hema when it was introduced. In all subsequent discussions Steve has spoken of his desire that players should have to put some effort in to get the Hema, and not be able to get it immediately from stockpiles. His explanations haven't referenced clan cooperation or structure at all, that I can recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)shadowraith_666 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 DE has an extremely annoying habit of adding research weapons as a requirement for other research weapons , i have a feeling that DE will make HEMA a requirement for another weapon at some point, buying HEMA does not eliminate the research part you still have to do it for the other weapon making it a 5k mutagen sample gate on top of the next weapons requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Silverback73 Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Zookes said: 5k mutagen is a four-weekend, 8 total hours goal for 4 people without boosters. It is hardly such punishment. The sticker shock is a shock to this complacent clan culture, I think. Also the one-man clans suffer. This is bad? I am unsure, tho I believe clan members for a very long time have few reasons to work together and have now at least one. The result bringing complacent warlords into greed, and needy leeches to those warlords who beg for entry and must pay. This will soon pass tho, I think. Who knows? This was maybe a calculated result and DE wishes for large clans to purge and downsize - and for one-man clans to find members - for upcoming updates in this year of "making clans great again". This will be a tremendously unpopular response, but warrants consideration. My Mountain clan was largely inactive for it's size and we had a meeting on Hema strategy. We decided right off the bat to make it a priority STRETCH goal so as not to divide the clan in any way...in other words please help with research costs when you can but buying the Hema or playing the game your way is fine. No mandates. A lot of newer members were inspired to become active recruiters. We have more new members in the past 2 weeks than I ever thought possible. Last check, we needed 130K samples, so the number is getting hammered away at. Whether all this results in clan growth with any kind of legs remains to be seen, but one interesting result from the Hema debate may be that a certain number of new players may find that invested, emotional anchor that transitions them into long-term, paying customers. Maybe Dark Aura is an exception. We tend to be casual, generous players who love the game and playing with each other. That's our culture. Low-key fun and roll with the punches and farm away as we fashion frame and blast things. Edited January 23, 2017 by (PS4)Silverback73 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marasago Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 (edited) It occurred to me that there is a true classic of advertisement out there which strangely reminded me of the recent developments of our game. I took some inspiration (liberal use here) from it and in my time not playing Warframe I came up with this - my way of expressing my perception of the current spirit of Warframe :) Edited January 23, 2017 by Marasago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomFruit Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Honestly, this is the first thing that comes to mind for me: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sherbniz Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 What honestly worries me most is how this will fraction clans. It has already begun. Plenty of people left ours to "start their own research clan" to quickly get the Hema. I get that having a big clan is supposed to be hard to maintain and we had plenty of research items that already tested our clan, forcing us to farm. But this... is another magnitude. And it doesn't... feel like the big goal to strive for they make it out to be. It's just a viral burst rifle with life leech. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angary Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 18 hours ago, Slaviar said: A high markup is justified because someone can afford it. It honestly surprises me that DE uses that reason. It makes me feel like I'm listening to Martin Shkreli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajorTom Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 Steve is the guy who got confused by ayatan symbol on his Sunday stream, pretty sure he has no idea of the actual drop rate for samples. He should go and try to farm them himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckMaverick Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 16 minutes ago, DetoLee said: Steve is the guy who got confused by ayatan symbol on his Sunday stream, pretty sure he has no idea of the actual drop rate for samples. He should go and try to farm them himself. Lots of times on his stream Steve is feigning ignorance or surprise in his attempt to "see the game through the eyes of a new player", I wouldn't take those comments too literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naskoni Posted January 23, 2017 Share Posted January 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said: Lots of times on his stream Steve is feigning ignorance or surprise in his attempt to "see the game through the eyes of a new player", I wouldn't take those comments too literally. Guess it takes a lot of will to self delude as to see it as intentional "feigning"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts