To all people who think warframe is heading to a dark place

[ChillZi]

Before I begin this post I want to say that I am also one of those people who think warframe is going in the wrong direction (sry have maybe been clickbait)....but to all those people who agree with me:

If you really want to show the devs that they messed up, then you should stop playing their game. If you don't like in which direction the game is heading, you should show them that it is not acceptable. For example: Dont come into the forums, complain about vaulting items or why they don't sell prime accessoires seperately and then in the next moment still buy the whole Fire and Ice Pack. You have to vote with your wallet if you want to change things. You cannot complain about the ridiculous hema cost but still farm it and put hours into it or even buy platinum with money and purchase the weapon from the market. This will not show DE that you don't like this practice. Don't complain about riven mods being a cash grab and still buy plat with money so that you can obtain one of those. This is hypocritical. Actions speak louder than words!

I stopped playing this game a while ago simply because I dont like the direction the devs are going. I was also one of those people who created threads and complained about everything in here but there is just no point in doing this.

Bottomline, if you want to change something and dont agree with the devs, don't support them by putting your time and money into their game.

[Mcl_Blue]

Just an fyi, leaving the game won't make them fix it, just cancel it.

I mean, I agree with all the "speak with your wallet", that's right... but if everyone were to stop playing due to being unsatisfied, the end result wouldn't be the game getting fixed, it would be further development on it being cancelled due to lack of players. Just saying.

[ChuckMaverick]

While I may disagree with some decisions that DE make (and post here on the forums about it), on balance I still love playing the game and have no intention of stopping.

"Vote with your wallet" is a very valid statement, but there are other ways to give constructive feedback, too.

[WhiteMarker]

Sry, but this topic is pretty stupid.
From all the people playing the game there is such a small amount in the forums. And out of the forums-people there will just be a tiny amount following your advice.
"Leaving" will change nothing. but hey, just do it. In the end you will come back. People always say they are leaving and coming back just a week later...

[BornWithTeeth]

At this point, I'm basically in until the next cinematic quest. I'll make my choice then.

 

Otherwise, well.

_{Riven mods and literally every single thing about what they are and how they work. Especially the kinda dishonest way that DE explained them right from the start.
The inevitability of Warframe Riven mods.
The fact that we are now not getting a damage rework in favour of, you guessed it, Riven mods.
The narrative weirdness where DE are insistent on writing the Tenno as whining children despite all that they've learned and been through.
DE making Transference mode work the way that it does, and how every touch they've made to it since it dropped was to remove functionality from it.
The fact that Clan Research is now turning into a closed avenue for smaller Clans or Clans with less than 90% activity.
An 'Event' which consists of dropping an unexplained bug into the game with no cure, and which led to a lazy, sloppy, copypasted companion, forcing many players into solo only mode.
The last quest was a kludged together mess, half of an interesting exploration of how humanity has adapted to the Infestation, and half of a potentially thrilling series about corporate espionage amongst Corpus trading houses. Combined, it added up to less than the sum of its parts, and was completely bugged to hell and back.}

_{The fact that the community has already expressed dissatisfaction and DE have basically told us to buy Plat or get lost.}
 

[Madway7]

If people just up and leave then they will only have a general vague idea as to why people are leaving and be left to assume amongst themselves what the main issue is.

 

[Xaero]

This is a plan on how to ruin the game, not to fix it.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Madway7 said:

If people just up and leave then they will only have a general vague idea as to why people are leaving and be left to assume amongst themselves what the main issue is.

 

If DE do not know why people are annoyed by now, then they have bigger problems than keeping their game afloat.

[NekroArts]

9 minutes ago, ChuckMaverick said:

"Vote with your wallet" is a very valid statement, but there are other ways to give constructive feedback, too.

I'm starting to loose faith in constructive feedback when after a week of this

we get this

 

[ChuckMaverick]

Just now, NekroArts said:

I'm starting to loose faith in constructive feedback when after a week of this

we get this

 

I understand your frustration, and believe me I share it, but I'm not treating Steve's comment during a twitch stream as DE's final word on the matter just yet.

Let's see what they have to say in the first 2017 Dev Stream before we judge.

[Madway7]

17 minutes ago, BornWithTeeth said:

If DE do not know why people are annoyed by now, then they have bigger problems than keeping their game afloat.

In general it's hard to reach a compromise between keeping your players invested in the game while not adding things or making changes that would annoy or anger the majority of players. (Which I know is not the forum dwellers)

To some extent the developers need to stick to their guns as to what they do to the game, while on the other hand the game is heavily reliant on a constant active playerbase that they need to listen to feedback to help reach a point where the playerbase stays active. (But feedback is open to interpretation and not all feedback is constructive or helpful, so they need to constantly filter through what they agree or disagree with and then try to find a compromise)

Even only playing for a little over a year I can see that his game has been built on unstable foundations, constantly trying to cover up what's broken with new content. And this is understandable... one of the tactics of keeping players invested is to constantly add new content, but in return this sacrifices quality of the content that was already in place.

But at some point I feel like they need to seriously consider looking toward reaching a point where they don't use the "open beta" tag anymore. Which I don't think will ever happen.

Edited January 2, 2017 by Madway7

[Fabpsi]

4 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

If DE do not know why people are annoyed by now, then they have bigger problems than keeping their game afloat.

About the "just leave and don't say a word"-thingy that comes up here:
Welllll, imagine this

A class or some students in a university, studying for...let's just say 19 1/2 semesters *coughcough*... Everyone is studying, learning, following the things the teacher says. Some are more active in the class, some are just there listening and some are there and ask the serious questions and want to change the way the teacher is telling/teaching stuff, which sometimes might annoy the teacher....but he changes his learning-strategy from time to time.
After so many semesters, the class grows and some topics come up over and over again, since the class wants to know/learn more about certain topics.......but anyway...

Suddenly, after 19 and a half semesters.... 40% of the people just stand up in the middle of the class and leave. Without saying a word. They don't say goodbye to the teacher, they don't look at him. They won't come back.
What do you think the teacher will do or will think?...
The teacher can only look at all the students. He will ask himself "why" .... he wants to ask the students too, but they are all gone.
annnnd after so many semesters he wants to find the reason, but without the help or information of his students, he has no way to decide what the cause was for sure. He might missinterpreted (<-- hope that's a word, sry if not^^) the action of his students and will think that only in his latest class something went horribly wrong, but he won't touch the other things the students didn't like.....
----

I know that is a pretty plain and over-the-top example/story, but maybe it helps to get my thoughts out. All I want to say is:
It is not as good as you think to leave a game without giving constructive feedback. Your feedback might go unnoticed, or maybe DE will think "yeaaa, nah we still gonna do it our way".... but it can change stuff. Proper feedback and useful information can change stuff. I have seen it, it doesn't happen as often as some people might expect it...but DE is very close to their community....
 

yeaaaa...that's about it^^
There is a lot of "feedback" here in the forums that is, sorry to say it like that, not feedback. Just critisism or complaints, or meta-threads, or rants, or or or. That won't help DE when they are looking for the important stuff at all. It just takes time.

Oh and I agree, "vote with your wallet" can change things and is a good way to get attention....
don't really know what to think about this thread... oh well ^-^

[ChillZi]

2 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Sry, but this topic is pretty stupid.
From all the people playing the game there is such a small amount in the forums. And out of the forums-people there will just be a tiny amount following your advice.
"Leaving" will change nothing. but hey, just do it. In the end you will come back. People always say they are leaving and coming back just a week later...

Lol I find it funny how you react. When I made dozens of threads and I wanted to discuss certain problems about the game here people (white knights) told me to stop playing this game and play something different. I didnt listen to them at first but after having so many fruitless discussions here, I left. So I am just taking the advice of the white knights and play something different. 

They told me to not play the game anymore and take a break since I have so many hours put in it (Although that was not the problem. I wanted to talk about the problems this game has) After many discussions (mostly banging your head against a brick wall because this is how it feels like when discussing certain topics in here), I got tired and took a break from warframe.

Also to all people saying "You put so many hours into the game. You should play something else."

If you say that to people, there is a high possibility that they will not come back ever again. Why? Because they may find something they were looking for in a different game which warframe doesn't have and probably never will.....Just saying. :)

17 minutes ago, Madway7 said:

If people just up and leave then they will only have a general vague idea as to why people are leaving and be left to assume amongst themselves what the main issue is.

 

Blame the white knights in the forums. You cannot have good discussions with them lurking in the forums. It is just tiring.

1 minute ago, VisionAndVoice said:

Because the vast majority of the feedback on the forums is not constructive. It's utter trash, mixed with capricious demands of entitled children.

Pretty much like this thread.

So define constructive please? If anyone is not constructive it is white knights like you defending this game even if it clearly has its problems. There were tons of threads that I made and people like you spout the same nonsense like always. (Not going to work or I dont want that in my game etc. etc.)

 

 

So you dont want that people complain about the game (even if it is justified) but you still want people to complain about the game and criticise it. I dont know what it is but make up your mind.

And no I will not come back. I stopped playing this game for a month now. :) Best decision I ever made.

[WhiteMarker]

10 minutes ago, NekroArts said:

I'm starting to loose faith in constructive feedback

Yeah... constructive feedback... you mean all these people wording their feedback like this: "DE you are trash. Cut you bullS#&amp;&#036;. I want the Hema now. Give it to me. If you wont do that I will sue you"
Yeah... that's some constructive feedback...

[Sziklamester]

There are multiple ways to show if you are not delighted with the current state of game but stop playing won't solve the problems because the less player and less money they get that won't help finance their game and it won't solve the current problems.
 

The full ignorance cannot solve problems it just cause end of a story for this example : Warframe.

If you not happy of course you can decide not to pay but those peoples keep the game running whom given discounts and buying platinum.

This is a common sense in any free to play game and not just in warframe that the players think the free is mean FREE. Those peoples whom farming for all the time and telling you you can farm everything what you want then trade for platinum if you need is wrong. Those peoples never will understand the fact those whom like the game and want to help the development will pay for slots and other necessary things in the game which could not be farmed in any way.

If you are unhappy with the development then send a feedback to them and make a good critique and put ideas how the game can be solved. The majority of feedbacks are not useful for devs because they need to see clearly what the exact problems and you need to tell them in dev language not as player language. I know this is hard and many of us not really can give a correct feedback but if you have problems you should try this way.

That is also a common thing the devs cannot monitoring their game non stop and some topic is going to die before they could read them so the only way your feedback stay alive if you put it again and again until they not pay attention.

As a player whom spent money on the game but not given so much feedbacks I can say in my part I helped the development but there is always have room to improve. I know the value of things and those whom not pay at all should at least give a correct feedback to them.

[AdunSaveMe]

You can't teach an artist what he's done wrong by not buying his paintings. You teach him what he's done wrong by telling him what he's done wrong.

[AdunSaveMe]

4 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Yeah... constructive feedback... you mean all these people wording their feedback like this: "DE you are trash. Cut you bullS#&amp;&#036;. I want the Hema now. Give it to me. If you wont do that I will sue you"
Yeah... that's some constructive feedback...

There's actually a massive amount of constructive feedback. Hundreds and hundreds of posts, worded politely or neutrally, detailed or simple, with no vitriol of negativity whatsoever except the criticism itself.

You know what doesn't help? People that act like all the feedback is spiteful, non-constructive bile. That is an absurdly small minority of feedback in comparison to the MOUNTAINS of properly-written arguments and facts and opinions this community puts out.

Constructive feedback is often ignored, and certain people latch on to the few bad eggs in the batch and try to pretend that's the reason things don't go our way. It isn't. It never has been. It's not hard to see how much constructive feedback there is, unless you actively refuse to accept it. Hundreds of posts on the Hema specifically, most of them written fairly, and DE basically responds with "we appreciate the feedback but it won't be changing". Is that what constructive feedback gets us? What else is there to give?

Edited January 2, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[NekroArts]

7 minutes ago, WhiteMarker said:

Yeah... constructive feedback... you mean all these people wording their feedback like this: "DE you are trash. Cut you bullS#&amp;&#036;. I want the Hema now. Give it to me. If you wont do that I will sue you"
Yeah... that's some constructive feedback...

I can differentiate what's constructive and what's not.The first thread I reference has its fair share of constructive and non-constructive, but it's the only one that has most of the constructive on the Hema research in the forums.

Edited January 2, 2017 by NekroArts

[Gruumthimus.Prime]

Reddit, twitch streams okay...but I never thought I'd come to the official forums, that are owned by people who create the game, to see someone telling us all to quit that game lol

Honestly, there's much better ways to let them know they messed up, because quitting altogether is not the solution unless you're absolutely fed up with lots of stuff. WE just have to be much louder and a lot more constructive in our feedback if we want them to not only listen but take the feedback into consideration. Personally, there's lots of stuff I don't like, a lot of DE's decisions I don't agree with and obviously lots of things I would like to see change, but I can still find a way to enjoy the game and avoid the things I don't like as much as I possibly can.

As far as the stuff surrounding the whole Hema research cost issue, sure, I can agree with those who tell everyone not to spend their money on it. For the reasons that need any explanation...but at this point a lot of people already did that, a lot of people buy the new weapons, warframes as soon as they are in the game and i'm not talking about the prime access stuff that cannot be obtained any other way.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, Gruumzh said:

WE just have to be much louder and a lot more constructive in our feedback if we want them to not only listen but take the feedback into consideration.

You have to understand that if DE doesn't agree with what the community is saying, it isn't going to happen. The community ALWAYS gives constructive feedback. Obviously not the entire community, but there is ALWAYS constructive feedback. We aren't going to get anywhere by repeating the same thing if they don't want it to happen.

I'll use the Hema thing as an example again. What else is there to say? A massive megathread, and quite a few big threads on reddit, all of them containing polite, constructive and fair criticism and feedback, and all of it is responded to with "thanks, but we don't plan on changing it". Because they don't agree. We've said what there is to say.

[ChillZi]

2 minutes ago, AdunSaveMe said:

You can't teach an artist what he's done wrong by not buying his paintings. You teach him what he's done wrong by telling him what he's done wrong.

The thing is if people in this forum are telling other people that they shouldn't complain or in my case play something different, although it is clearly justified that people like me or others complain about a certain topic, then this system clearly doesnt work.

Also if feedback is not taking seriously (like with the hema resource cost in clans) what is the point in telling them again what they did wrong?

I just don't get why we have feedback in the first place.

[AdunSaveMe]

Just now, ChillZi said:

Also if feedback is not taking seriously (like with the hema resource cost in clans) what is the point in telling them again what they did wrong?

I just don't get why we have feedback in the first place.

Any feedback is obviously subjective, but with the existence of feedback, there is at least the possibility of 'improvement' (also subjective). Without any feedback at all, there's no possibility of any improvement. Better to give it and have it be ignored than to not give it at all.

Edited January 2, 2017 by AdunSaveMe

[ChuckMaverick]

2 minutes ago, ChillZi said:

I just don't get why we have feedback in the first place.

If you feel that way, then fine, but many of us don't.

I don't try to convince people quitting that they should be posting on the forum instead, it's their choice.

[ChillZi]

1 minute ago, AdunSaveMe said:

Any feedback is obviously subjective, but with the existence of feedback, there is at least the possibility of 'improvement' (also subjective). Without any feedback at all, there's no possibility of any improvement. Better to give it and have it be ignored than to not give it at all.

I understand what you are saying but honestly I am really tired of it. So many good feedback has been suggested and nothing came back. Ignoring feedback constantly is just not the way to go in my opinion.

[Zaniel_Aus]

For the whole of MMO history the only example where player feedback seemed to result in real large scale change was Final Fantasy, they closed down the game and rebuilt it.

EVERY other MMO, they've all slowly driven themselves into the ground through sheer stubborn developer pride and arrogance. Everquest thought it was the big bad boy and wouldn't change and lost everything to WoW when everyone said "screw you, you're never going to improve, this new guy seems much better".

Conversely, the thing about MMO populations is that they are made up of quite diverse people. Something that is the last straw for you is meaningless to the next guy and something you don't care about will end it for him. So, as a result MMOs usually die slow attrition deaths until at some point a direct genre competitor comes out and finishes them off. However, Warframe is a pretty niche genre MMO so its unlikely to face a direct replacement so it'll eventually one day die slowly and quietly.

What does this have to do with this thread? Well, its pretty much boiling frog syndrome, the devs won't respond to any leavers (or threats, requests, rallies, petitions, etc) because it will be slow and steady and replaced gradually by new adopters. They won't feel the pain immediately. Additionally DE are a small studio of personally emotionally-invested devs and this is "their" baby, this means we're wrong and they're right in pretty much every disagreement. They are completely closed off to admitting they are wrong.

So leaving, not leaving, spending money on plat, not spending money, whatever, will make NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER to any in-game thing you don't like. You just have to decide at the end of the day if X-thing is your last straw and leave for your own sake, not the sake of the game