Reddit v. Forums

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

1 hour ago, AtroSpiker said:

I saw his post on reddit forums about the Hema research and the direction that DE seems to be taking the game and he made a lot of strong points, so then I went ahead and reposted his thread here only to have it locked by  a mod soon after, then receiving a warning point for spamming?

iirc you reposted word for word a thread that had already been locked and redirected to an existing thread about the topic. There was no conspiracy against you.

[BornWithTeeth]

No, let's be fair about this: the reddit can be very harsh and negative. Right now, /r Warframe is pissed with the Devs for dropping a poorly reasoned research project and a buggy event and then leaving it all pretty much unmonitored for two weeks. That means it's going to shade all discussion there.

On the other hand, DE have undeniably dropped the ball on this, and it probably would have worked out way better for them to have waited until they were back in the office to release all this stuff, so that they could monitor it and make sure that it went smoothly and could be fixed as it needed it.

[AtroSpiker]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

iirc you reposted word for word a thread that had already been locked and redirected to an existing thread about the topic. There was no conspiracy against you.

Probably. But why was that thread locked?

Why wasn't it moved to feedback?

Like read the OP. Do you even see devbashing in it?

[TotallyLagging]

1 minute ago, AtroSpiker said:

Well it's not really complaints.

It's feedback with some whining on the side.

But again these forums and its people are too dismissive of problems, like you don't bother to hear someone out and try to understand their problem from their angle and perspective before dismissing them as just another ignorant whiner. It could be solid feedback that could of helped improved Warframe, but thanks to you guys so hardcore and hellbent on arguing against a problem instead of collaborating to solve it or try to understand it, you guys just start needless conflicts and argument which leads to the thread getting locked and nothing getting done.

That post was more of a joke tbh

I lurk on all 4 ( Well, okay, 3. I have 1200 posts in this forum... ) and all of them have their own problems. I mean, the problem with this forums is already highlighted on the first page. That uppity attitude ain't gonna bode well in discussions and the evidence is within all of the locked threads in this forum. With reddit it's hard to contribute on a discussion if you're super late because your post is gonna be buried under the most upvoted posts, references or memes, and so on.

In the end I'm somewhat glad that DE takes feedback from all of them. Yeah, even /wfg/. I know Reb goes there sometimes. 

[AtroSpiker]

2 minutes ago, TotallyLagging said:

That post was more of a joke tbh

I lurk on all 4 ( Well, okay, 3. I have 1200 posts in this forum... ) and all of them have their own problems. I mean, the problem with this forums is already highlighted on the first page. That uppity attitude ain't gonna bode well in discussions and the evidence is within all of the locked threads in this forum. With reddit it's hard to contribute on a discussion if you're super late because your post is gonna be buried under the most upvoted posts, references or memes, and so on.

In the end I'm somewhat glad that DE takes feedback from all of them. Yeah, even /wfg/. I know Reb goes there sometimes. 

And that's what I love about DE.

Like I feel really more at ease with sharp developers like them, who know exactly where to look for the good stuff and how to handle the bad stuff very well.

I just wish I could make a twitter just to defend Steve from some of those ridiculous, negative for no reason, twitter trolls, who are probably SJWs and radical liberals of some sort. >.>

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

7 minutes ago, AtroSpiker said:

Probably. But why was that thread locked?

Why wasn't it moved to feedback?

Like read the OP. Do you even see devbashing in it?

Don't remember and I'm not going through the 30 pages that search brought up just to find it. All I know is people are still salty as **** and Devs were on Holiday so they really couldn't officially do anything while the forums were melting down. And it's not like they're quick on the draw on anything else either. We've been left in the dark for about 2 weeks and can only hope it's in some form addressed in the next devstream.

[heskaroid]

/r/warframe allows free speech and doesn't enforce censorship down our throats.

That's all.

[AtroSpiker]

2 minutes ago, (PS4)Tactless_Ninja said:

Don't remember and I'm not going through the 30 pages that search brought up just to find it. All I know is people are still salty as **** and Devs were on Holiday so they really couldn't officially do anything while the forums were melting down. And it's not like they're quick on the draw on anything else either. We've been left in the dark for about 2 weeks and can only hope it's in some form addressed in the next devstream.

Well I have a feeling they kind of knew people would be upset about the Hema research.

But if they are going to make research require that much materials, then they should really get rid of the wait/build time and have it ready as soon as all the materials are gathered.

[(PSN)Tactless_Ninja]

Just now, AtroSpiker said:

Well I have a feeling they kind of knew people would be upset about the Hema research.

But if they are going to make research require that much materials, then they should really get rid of the wait/build time and have it ready as soon as all the materials are gathered.

I'd argue they forgot to up the drop chance on the material the way they did for oxium. They had a new(ish) game mode on Eris right? Logic was play new game mode for Nidus parts, passively get mutagen samples. Although oxium also had alerts for it giving you 300 chunks of it at a time. And the clan system had it's own set of problems. 

[Zamio]

14 minutes ago, heskaroid said:

/r/warframe allows free speech and doesn't enforce censorship down our throats.

That's all.

It doesn't at all.

Moderating is not censorship.

[heskaroid]

Just now, Zamio said:

It doesn't at all.

Moderating is not censorship.

Moderating isn't censorship, but deleting your post that criticizes a youtuber is censorship.

[Zamio]

Just now, heskaroid said:

Moderating isn't censorship, but deleting your post that criticizes a youtuber is censorship.

If you resorted to personal attacks on that youtuber, it should have been deleted, yes.

[UrielColtan]

Sucking teets does no one any good, and the reality is that a nebulous audience doesn't need any browny points, a company is the one who needs to focus on browny points if they wish to get money from the audience. Nirvana fallacy applied to a crowd is folly, due to sheer probability of numbers and human behavior. Its just a set up to disregarding any audience criticism as a whole due to imperfection, with  such  a narrow minded out look, as put forward by Zamio there. Censoring here can be understandable if they don't want to have lawsuits from angry parents over lewdness or vulgarity, or individual personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issues of the game, but thats basically the only good reasons. That has not always been the case regarding censoring here though, thus less controlled places will become preferred for discussing particular issues, and there is no black and white about it.. 

Edited January 2, 2017 by UrielColtan

[heskaroid]

1 minute ago, Zamio said:

If you resorted to personal attacks on that youtuber, it should have been deleted, yes.

The last time I checked it didn't contain death threats, his personal address, telling people to go flame him, etc etc.

Sure it may have looked harsh, but like it or not, it's criticism.

[Sirfol]

The fact is, in forum before answering you need to make a political format of your opinions, avoiding vulgar and uncostructive feedback (at leastit's what it meant to be), the forum are the face of the game.

Reddit is uncensored but a higly populist forum. so if i whine for something people have no intention to work for, then those people will upvote me, and feed my ego. i go to the forum and see people giving me smart opinions with a logical post. I rage. And again go in reddit to whine.

For feedback i prefer forum

For popcorn i prefer reddit

IMO

.

Edited January 2, 2017 by [DE]Taylor
removed derailing quoted comment

[Wevi]

3 minutes ago, Sirfol said:

i go to the forum and see people giving me smart opinions with a logical post.

that has got to be some kind of elaborate  joke

[[DE]Taylor]

Just poking my head in to clean up some fighting and derailment. Carry on. 

[AtroSpiker]

54 minutes ago, UrielColtan said:

Sucking teets does no one any good, and the reality is that a nebulous audience doesn't need any browny points, a company is the one who needs to focus on browny points if they wish to get money from the audience. Nirvana fallacy applied to a crowd is folly, due to sheer probability of numbers and human behavior. Its just a set up to disregarding any audience criticism as a whole due to imperfection, with  such  a narrow minded out look, as put forward by Zamio there. Censoring here can be understandable if they don't want to have lawsuits from angry parents over lewdness or vulgarity, or individual personal attacks that have nothing to do with the issues of the game, but thats basically the only good reasons. That has not always been the case regarding censoring here though, thus less controlled places will become preferred for discussing particular issues, and there is no black and white about it.. 

 

12 minutes ago, [DE]Taylor said:

Just poking my head in to clean up some fighting and derailment. Carry on. 

This is very true and yeah, I do agree some attacks and fighting/argument/derailment do happen which is when moderation is really appreciated.

But honestly I'd rather see a thread cleaned than just locked, especially when the OP is good and making strong statements.

While reddit may have those arguments and fighting that we have here which don't necessarily get cleaned up, a lot more of the constructive and more honest but rough people are there, it's understandable that DE has to maintain appearances though, but since they do pay attention to what goes on in reddit too, it's quite fine actually.

Edited January 2, 2017 by AtroSpiker

[KettleTicket]

If you want to read/post unsavory things like datamining or complaining wildly, then reddit.

If you hope for answers directly, then here. (since devs actually respond here)

 

I visit both on occasion since I do not play the game until the evening of most days. Here for "is there a status or update thread?". There for "what has VDG found this time?"

[SilentCircle]

I prefer reddit because you can discuss data mining and F2P business stuff there.
Also I'm an adult, so if I think something is horseS#&$ I like the freedom to call it that.

EDIT: Case in point - the forums software changed one of my words :)

Edited January 2, 2017 by SilentCircle

[ChuckMaverick]

3 minutes ago, SilentCircle said:

I prefer reddit because you can discuss data mining and F2P business stuff there.

While we can't directly reference data mined information here, we do still have many discussions that draw on it.

We discuss F2P business issues here all the time, not sure why you think we can't.

3 minutes ago, SilentCircle said:

Also I'm an adult, so if I think something is horseS#&$ I like the freedom to call it that.

I'd personally agree with you on that one, there's even a "Mature 17+" rating at the bottom of this page, but I don't feel horribly constrained by not being able to cuss openly.

[Tesseract7777]

3 hours ago, BornWithTeeth said:

If DE choose only to pay attention to feedback on their own forum, they make a mistake by doing so.

From what I have heard, they lurk some on the reddits and watch a lot of the youtubers video's as well. But yeah your best chance of getting noticed is the forums, is that really a mistake? 

Of course they are going to want the majority of the feedback to be here where they can organize like feedback and make it easier to go over.

However, if you want to suggest that they should be a little less over-sensitive on the forums than yeah, sure. I could get on board with that. I think it takes far too little on these forums to be considered as "dev bashing". 

Sometimes over sensitivity does mean not listening to things you need to hear. 

[ChuckMaverick]

4 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

However, if you want to suggest that they should be a little less over-sensitive on the forums than yeah, sure. I could get on board with that. I think it takes far too little on these forums to be considered as "dev bashing". 

Sometimes over sensitivity does mean not listening to things you need to hear.

If posters have comments that they think the devs need to hear, they can just post them without including the insults, it's really not that difficult.

[BornWithTeeth]

1 minute ago, Tesseract7777 said:

From what I have heard, they lurk some on the reddits and watch a lot of the youtubers video's as well. But yeah your best chance of getting noticed is the forums, is that really a mistake? 

Of course they are going to want the majority of the feedback to be here where they can organize like feedback and make it easier to go over.

However, if you want to suggest that they should be a little less over-sensitive on the forums than yeah, sure. I could get on board with that. I think it takes far too little on these forums to be considered as "dev bashing". 

Sometimes over sensitivity does mean not listening to things you need to hear. 

Well, here, let me try this: 

 

The Devs, in themselves as private individuals, seem to be really lovely, cheerful, creative people, and I wish them absolutely the best! However, the Devs in their professional capacity as game developers are relentlessly screwing up and burning the goodwill of the community, and they really, really need to address this and pull up.

Recently, they have:

Messed with game balance and the player trade economy by introducing Riven mods, a move which also means that Damage 3.0 is going to be damned near impossible to introduce due to exactly the same reasoning as Steve has given for not fixing the Hema requirements, i.e. it wouldn't be fair to people who already have it/them.
Released a rather buggy and lacklustre quest which screwed with people's Alignment, and then led right into a poorly explained and equally buggy new game mode where players have to grind pretty hard for the new 'frame.
This new 'frame then immediately opened us up to what could have been a neat new Event, except it too was unexplained and seemed pretty buggy. The outcome of this event was/is a rather lazily done copy and paste. There is no cure in sight for the disease, but I hope there will be some kind of conclusion for it, because my favourite 'frame is still locked firmly in the fridge.
While all of this is going on, the newest Clan research weapon costs literally ten times as much to research as all prior research in the Bio Lab combined, using a material which most players don't have much of because it really only drops in the Derelict, and naturally (i.e. without Boosters and farming 'frames) drops at a rate of less than ten or twenty per mission, while the requirement scales to the thousands. This is also encouraging some really toxic clan behaviour like kicking loads of people out so you can downsize, forming external shell clans at Ghost size to do the research for clanners, or outright charging Plat for clan membership. This is not ideal.
While all of this is going on, DE have been on vacation, and that's fine! They totally have the right to take some time off, everyone has the right. However, the timing of it was really unfortunate and now they have some fires to put out.
Steve responded to this by kinda half-admitting that the Hema research cost was poorly considered, but said that it's not getting changed because it wouldn't be fair to the people who went and grinded it. Lads. Lads, this is not a good response. This is the equivalent of saying that you made a mistake, but now it's too late and everyone is just going to have to suffer because it's too entrenched to fix it.



So, yes. The devs are nice people, and I hope they had a really nice time on vacation. However, equally as much, I wish that they had not made such a miscalculation before going on vacation, and I really hope that they will now take feedback into consideration, and fix some of this.

Thank you.

[mrecentric]

I like both but IMO Reddit has a larger quantity of useful info. I probably spend more time on the forums though because of the "latest staff replies" button.