Nidus really needs to get reworked

[Fast_98]

You know you could argue his passive is strong and should be adjusted to maybe requiring 20 stacks, that fair but in no way is his damage op when you compare it other frames like Mesa, Excalibur or valkyr.

 

Edit: Nidus has many skills but he ain't going to replace healers or cc frames when they are needed, he pretty much what Oberon should have been.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Fast_98

[injustible]

Just now, cronusaeonpc said:

what DE needs to do is to put this kind of mechanics in the other warframes  so they can scale properly.

Also the CC of nidus is ok  but will never beat warframes like nova or inaros and at least he can die not like wukong

 

Give this man a medal. Because he just put more facts in 2 lines of text than the OP of this thread in the insults and attempted comebacks to each factual comment so far.

[Valiant]

38 minutes ago, MrFoxAos said:

so its situational is what you're saying 

That sounds so awfully balanced.

Needs reworking, stat!

Edited January 6, 2017 by Naith

[WhiteMarker]

Just now, Knight_Ex said:

We were doing argon crystal farm that just decided to go into how long we can keep going, it has nothing to do with my clan, this was my idea as an individual, throwing around accusations that there is something wrong with my clan is a great way to start trouble.

You were the one starting to insult people. Doesn't seem all that nice does it?
And again: If you have the right setup it's ridiculously easy to carry someone who is half afk. And his frame wont matter at all if you do this.
I could easily get carried while using Oberon. Doesn't mean Oberon is OP as heck and needs a nerf...

[DMarzon]

NO JUST NO DO NOT TOUCH MY NIDUS ILL CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!!!!!!!! jk but he is fine to me if you dont want to play with nidus killing everything on sight just stay away from them play solo or get some distance it isnt that hard 

Edited January 6, 2017 by DrakeMarzonist

[Knight_Ex]

6 minutes ago, DrakeMarzonist said:

NO JUST NO DO NOT TOUCH MY NIDUS ILL CUT YOUR HEAD OFF!!!!!!!!

yeah thats the impression Im getting, clanmates warned me about that, but I don't care it needed to be said.

[mrrobotto67]

No, actually his scaling is what make Nidus a really well designed warframe. What every other warframe needs is a way for their abilities to scale like his. 

[Marine027]

Just now, cronusaeonpc said:

what DE needs to do is to put this kind of mechanics in the other warframes  so they can scale properly.

Also the CC of nidus is ok  but will never beat warframes like nova or inaros and at least he can die not like wukong

 

Never seen squads of Wukongs running in groups thou.

Sry but Inaros has ot recast his first ability for finishers alot and second one both not have an AoE, only one is his ulti he has to charge his own health up first without his armor stacking, Nova is squishy while casting a sniper could kill her even.

Nidus CC on the other hand knocks a whole room of enemys down with no real effort, you just cast it and everything gets pulled in, they created a biological simulor with this and even worse.

We do need simlair things but frames are still unique in there own way with own abilitys which shoudl shine in several specific situations, and not jsut one frame can do everything.

[Tanner_Lindberg]

Just now, Marine027 said:

Never seen squads of Wukongs running in groups thou.

Sry but Inaros has ot recast his first ability for finishers alot and second one both not have an AoE, only one is his ulti he has to charge his own health up first without his armor stacking, Nova is squishy while casting a sniper could kill her even.

Nidus CC on the other hand knocks a whole room of enemys down with no real effort, you just cast it and everything gets pulled in, they created a biological simulor with this and even worse.

We do need simlair things but frames are still unique in there own way with own abilitys which shoudl shine in several specific situations, and not jsut one frame can do everything.

" Never seen squads of Wukongs running in groups thou. "  well when he was new yeah (when clans could afford him)  and that also doesn't  make it a non issue  i mean its literally a press button to never die ability  

[DMarzon]

2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

yeah thats the impression Im getting, clanmates warned me about that, but I don't care it needed to be said.

again if you dont want to play around nidus that kills everything on your way just put some distance between them or play solo dont make it hard on yourself he doesnt need a nerf he scales up really nicely and he is killable for example i never go on corpus mission with him cause nullifiers completely F*** up my stacks and corpus burn through armor grineer its way more easier to get 100 stacks

[-Ropefish-]

Just now, Knight_Ex said:

It has nothing to do with how fast he kills everything, it has everything to do with teaching people braindead mechanics which teaches them nothing but to stay in place and alternate between 2 abilities, screw weapons and dodging when I can just link to an enemy and stomp my foot like crazy to get stronger, could care less how many kills a nidus player gets, but hey no skill frames are fun right?

well... this is the first frame to have you needing to constantly use all four abilities to do well, wich IMO all frames should do most you only need three... and the ones most everyone uses only use one ability. so its actually the opposite from my perspective 

[DMarzon]

2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

It has nothing to do with how fast he kills everything, it has everything to do with teaching people braindead mechanics which teaches them nothing but to stay in place and alternate between 2 abilities, screw weapons and dodging when I can just link to an enemy and stomp my foot like crazy to get stronger, could care less how many kills a nidus player gets, but hey no skill frames are fun right?

it all comes to how you play the game i dont stay in one spot with nidus i move around kill S#&$ with my weapons and powers combined others just stay in one spot it really comes down to how you play as him 

[Tanner_Lindberg]

3 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

It has nothing to do with how fast he kills everything, it has everything to do with teaching people braindead mechanics which teaches them nothing but to stay in place and alternate between 2 abilities, screw weapons and dodging when I can just link to an enemy and stomp my foot like crazy to get stronger, could care less how many kills a nidus player gets, but hey no skill frames are fun right?

i could list like 12 other no skill frames you gonna complain about them as well?

[PsiWarp]

Well, he is the first of his kind. We'll see what devs would do after collecting enough stats and feedback. Wouldn't be surprised if there were adjustments, as long as Nidus is still fun to play afterwards.

[Top_Kekkonen]

1 hour ago, Fast_98 said:

And now I call BullS#&$. Show me this amazing method and show me how you got 100 stacks in 3 min.

To be fair, it's possible. But it happens VERY rarely and you need very high level enemies.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Top_Kekkonen

[Top_Kekkonen]

Nidus doesn't need a nerf. Every other frame needs a buff.

[DMarzon]

2 hours ago, Knight_Ex said:

It has nothing to do with how fast he kills everything, it has everything to do with teaching people braindead mechanics which teaches them nothing but to stay in place and alternate between 2 abilities, screw weapons and dodging when I can just link to an enemy and stomp my foot like crazy to get stronger, could care less how many kills a nidus player gets, but hey no skill frames are fun right?

and also the people who made nidus and his powers arent braindead he is the best warframe we had in a long time and already someone is complaining about cause he cant get any kill cause nidus just stands in one spot and kills waves of enemies he is meant to be a powerfull warframe and people asking for nerfs over something so stupid that can be easily ignored/avoided that is braindead so yeah...

[Fast_98]

2 minutes ago, Top_Kekkonen said:

To be fair, it's possible. But it happens VERY rarely and you need very high level enemies.

Yeah that what I mean. The op said he can get 100 in 3 min but didn't tell us the level. My main concern was how he was killing level 200 with only 10 stacks which he or she doesn't provide any video of.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Fast_98

[Col_Helghan]

I have never seen squads of 2 or more Nidus´. Even after I farmed his blueprints and formaed him few times along other weapons, a lot of missions.

In fact I barely even see anyone playing him. Finally we get a perfect frame which has 4 abilities that synergize well with each other. You have to use all 4 abilities for Nidus to work.

Also, saying he instagibs lvl 200 with 10 stacks, you are the bane of this community and players like you spewing bullS#&$ every time they type something.Go make me a video where this happens and you won´t because it doesn´t. I run a full strength build on Nidus, tested in Simulacrum with 100 stacks, it doesn´t one / shot a lvl 110 let alone lvl 200.

 

So, we have Inaros, Wukong and (insert frame here) that are basically immortal and you complain about Nidus being tanky ? His 1st ability is garbage unless you get a decent amount of stacks which also as someone said DOESN´T happen in 3 minutes. I´ve done all kinds of missions even though infested missions are probably my favourite where hordes of infested run at you, perfect for getting stacks and no you can´t get 100 stacks in 3 minutes. Also, make me a video of that and you won´t because that´s also another bullS#&$ statement.

 

I am not hating on anyone but OP´s post sounds like it´s coming from someone who either doesn´t have Nidus and is butthurt about his frame not being able to survive anything past low levels in survival or just generally hating this new frame for no reason. I have to commend DE for creating such a good frame, where you have to use all abilities.

If you saw 1 or 2 Nidus´ camping and spamming 1st ability, it was probably on a chokepoint of some sorts and I would have done the same as if you wouldn´t with any other frame that has an ability with a straight projected path. 

Anything past lvl 80, unless you link with an enemy your armor won´t help you from getting pulverized to mince meat, I´d rather link to an ally for a massive boost in power strength.

[Flames21891]

9 minutes ago, Zeclem said:

the fact that you all think its the other frames need a buff to get on nidus's level is a clear indication that you are all horribad players and also nidus needs a nerf.

I think it's less getting on his level, and more matching his greatest strength: Synergy.

See, what makes Nidus so powerful is that none of his abilities are situationally useful. Pretty much no matter how you build Nidus, all four of his abilities will be used during play. Compare this to most other frames, where you focus on maximizing one or two abilities thus making their other abilities trash in the process, and you'll see WHY Nidus is so strong. His kit synergizes so well that he doesn't have any neglected buttons, which makes him incredibly versatile and allows you to maximize the potential of the frame.

So what people are saying is that other frames should have this kind of synergy in their kit, where all their abilities compliment and feed off each other somehow. You have to admit, playing a frame with only part of their kit because their aren't any builds that allow you to use all four of their abilities (and still be impactful) makes these frames very one-dimensional.

[DMarzon]

2 hours ago, Zealotux said:

I have never seen squads of 2 or more Nidus´. Even after I farmed his blueprints and formaed him few times along other weapons, a lot of missions.

In fact I barely even see anyone playing him. Finally we get a perfect frame which has 4 abilities that synergize well with each other. You have to use all 4 abilities for Nidus to work.

Also, saying he instagibs lvl 200 with 10 stacks, you are the bane of this community and players like you spewing bullS#&$ every time they type something.Go make me a video where this happens and you won´t because it doesn´t. I run a full strength build on Nidus, tested in Simulacrum with 100 stacks, it doesn´t one / shot a lvl 110 let alone lvl 200.

 

So, we have Inaros, Wukong and (insert frame here) that are basically immortal and you complain about Nidus being tanky ? His 1st ability is garbage unless you get a decent amount of stacks which also as someone said DOESN´T happen in 3 minutes. I´ve done all kinds of missions even though infested missions are probably my favourite where hordes of infested run at you, perfect for getting stacks and no you can´t get 100 stacks in 3 minutes. Also, make me a video of that and you won´t because that´s also another bullS#&$ statement.

 

I am not hating on anyone but OP´s post sounds like it´s coming from someone who either doesn´t have Nidus and is butthurt about his frame not being able to survive anything past low levels in survival or just generally hating this new frame for no reason. I have to commend DE for creating such a good frame, where you have to use all abilities.

If you saw 1 or 2 Nidus´ camping and spamming 1st ability, it was probably on a chokepoint of some sorts and I would have done the same as if you wouldn´t with any other frame that has an ability with a straight projected path. 

Anything past lvl 80, unless you link with an enemy your armor won´t help you from getting pulverized to mince meat, I´d rather link to an ally for a massive boost in power strength.

THANK YOU lets see if he reads this and understand

[Cpl_Facehugger]

1 hour ago, Knight_Ex said:

I can't be the only person getting sick of seeing 2-3 nidus warframes running in every mission, lets break it down, Nidus is pretty much unkillable, he has insane amounts of damage, even if by some miracle he goes down so long as the person has 10 stacks they are auto revived, he can CC an entire room easily, gain insane amounts of damage reduction with his link, oh are those 10 bombards giving you trouble? just let me link to that corrupted ancient....there we go all better,  Fact of the matter being why run anything else since Nidus does most jobs perfectly, Tanking....check.....Damage....Check (With 100stacks his one can do up to 40k damage per hit and it hits multiple times), Buffing....Check.....Healing......sorta...his 4 can heal but not as effective as a trin, still if the people stay in range its unlikely they will go down.   So please someone come in here and tell me he doesn't need a rework and explain your logic behind it, because its obvious the QA team did barely any work on this one or he was purposely released as an OP frame,  FYI to get 100 stacks takes all but 3 minutes in some missions, his second ability followed with his first.....Id love to know the developers take on this, did rushing him involve throwing all the playtesting out the window for an end of year release?

Nidus doesn't need a rework at all. He is, indeed, one of the best balanced frames DE has ever released.

Nidus is very powerful in certain situations. This is true. But let's break things down:

Nidus' durability in decently high levels (ie 60+) is tied almost entirely to getting stacks. His regen is nice but regen is a poor source of ehp because of how strong enemy burst DPS is at high levels. (It's no good to regen if the first burst downs you immediately.) On top of that, acquiring stacks is dependent on having large numbers of enemies to hit with his 1 or his 4. A nidus is absolutely not unkillable if you're playing high levels like he's balanced for. Indeed, Nidus is tremendously fun at high levels precisely because he's durable enough to survive if you play well, but if you don't use your mobility, you're going to lose. The undying passive sounds great, but it's more of a last gasp type situation that exists to compensate for players making mistakes, rather than something he can tank with like a snowglobe, iron skin, nezha 2, or vex armor. It's similar to Quick Thinking in that it will save you if you screw up, but tanking with it just doesn't work well at all.

Next, Nidus' CC is not great. His main form of CC, the larva (power #2) is LOS dependent, can be blocked by terrain, and cannot be recast until its duration expires if you miss, assuming you hit at least one enemy (and it'll almost always hit at least one enemy). Compare his CC to a strong CC like Rhino, Nyx, Vaub, or Excal w/blind. Rhino stomp better range and isn't LOS dependent. Nyx is the same, but also involves enemies shooting at one another. Bastille can hit people who enter the field after cast instead of blowing its load early like larva, and singularity does the same thing larva does except even better. Even blind is better, because blind's LOS is dependent on either you seeing the enemy or the enemy seeing you and blind opens enemies up to finishers for massive damage instead of being blocked by everything from corners to blunts to boxes.

Nidus' 4 also provides CC. However, this is CC dependent on pets, and we all know how good pet AI is. Worse, enemies can shoot the larva. His 4 is great for utility (that heal is amazing!), but it's not best in class CC. It also eats stacks, which means its sustainability depends on nearby enemies being common.

Nidus' 3 has major problems as well, things that limit it. First, it eats a mutation stack. Next, it doesn't provide nearly as much DR as Trin's link, and isn't nearly as convenient either. I've tried to use his 3 as a DR tool a lot, but it dosn't very effective for that role. I don't know what you're talking about here with it providing tons of DR. I'm not even certain it provides DR at all, instead of just mirroring damage to your enemies, that's how bad the DR gain seems to me. Worse, it seems like it ends if you get too far from your linked target. It can significantly improve your damage output if you link to a cooperative friendly tenno, but I don't see why buffing teammates should be punished.

But let's talk about the only thing that anyone can even make a claim about Nidus being OP about. His damage potential. That 1 can do a lot of damage with the right build. But! That needs tons of mutation stacks to actually realize. We're talking more than thirty to take down tough armored foes like you encounter in sorties. In short missions, you are not going to have time to build up stacks at all. You'll be lucky to get ten. The only time you can build up huge stacks that make Nidus good is endless missions and some sorties. But in those kind of missions you're going to be going through stacks like candy. A Corpus Tech [80] can take down a durability focused Nidus in one burst, eating ten of his stacks. And we all know how techs like to spawn right in your face.

(Speaking of sorties, Nullifiers utterly castrate Nidus, as all his awesomeness comes from powers. He can't tank without stacks, which he can't generate if nulls are in play. Rhino can pull out of the bubble and cast iron skin while shooting the bubble down. Nidus doesn't have that luxury. Ancient disruptors and energy drain eximuses are also hard counters to Nidus; disruptors cut his power damage to almost nothing with their aura even if he has tons of stacks and can steal all his energy, energy drain eximuses keep him from casting 1 and building stacks.)

Worse, his 1 only affects a single line of enemies instead of a cone ala frost's ice wave. This requires you to gather all enemies in a ball with his 2 (which we've already discussed), and even then you're not going to get too many stacks this way unless you have a huge ball of enemies - the most I get from frantically spamming 1 in that situation most of the time is 7-10 stacks. And that's usually with infested, who are the best target for stack building like this.

What Nidus' 1 does is give us, with the right circumstance (and this is hugely important - Nidus can do tons of damage if the situation is right, but he still falls compared to something like Banshee's billion+ damage output via sonar stacking), the ability to use powers on sortie tier enemies for damage instead of utility. That's a breath of fresh air considering how virtually no other warframe powers can kill effectively at sortie tier without ultra-niche gimmick builds.

Nidus is a damage frame who can actually fight in endgame. Someone before said he's what Oberon should've been, and I agree completely with this.

Now, remember what Nidus is. He's an endgame frame, designed for endgame. The quest to get him requires you to have completed War Within, our current gateway to endgame content. He requires farming Eris after that. His playstyle requires skillful play at that level. At lower levels he's more powerful, but you'll be hard pressed to find a warframe that doesn't roll over level 30 enemies, and he's still in the position of needing time to build up stacks.

Nidus is a new meta frame, but OP? No. Right now you see tons of Niduses because he's fun to play and the novelty hasn't worn off yet, and even now I see less and less Niduses pubbing sorties than I did last week.

Edited January 6, 2017 by Cpl_Facehugger

[ashrah]

every time new frame come ppl will use it...have fun...

[Doc-Orange]

No Nidus nerf, plz. He's totally fine for endgame. Most people who want to nerf him never used him in endgame. He's far from invincible.

[Zeclem]

1 hour ago, Flames21891 said:

I think it's less getting on his level, and more matching his greatest strength: Synergy.

See, what makes Nidus so powerful is that none of his abilities are situationally useful. Pretty much no matter how you build Nidus, all four of his abilities will be used during play. Compare this to most other frames, where you focus on maximizing one or two abilities thus making their other abilities trash in the process, and you'll see WHY Nidus is so strong. His kit synergizes so well that he doesn't have any neglected buttons, which makes him incredibly versatile and allows you to maximize the potential of the frame.

So what people are saying is that other frames should have this kind of synergy in their kit, where all their abilities compliment and feed off each other somehow. You have to admit, playing a frame with only part of their kit because their aren't any builds that allow you to use all four of their abilities (and still be impactful) makes these frames very one-dimensional.

he can still have synergy and be balanced. look at excalibur for one. in basically any build he doesnt have any useless skills. then there is saryn. all her skills are useful as long as you want them to be useful(aka pressing the button of the skill).

and people do actually think its because of his power, not because of synergy. otherwise none of them would think hes the only "relevant" frame. i dont ask a rework or anything as such, i do like how his kit works with each other. but he does need a nerf still. it can be in damage, it can be tankiness, i dont really care about that.