ASH vs LOKI

[Estarossa1]

Which is better and why?

why so many people hate ash? his 4th ability has been reworked and guess what no one even plays him anymore ..i have only saw 1 ash in public since the beginning of the month lol..

When will their useless comparisons stop?

why does loki has a huge head...haha

and WHO IS THE BETTER SPY??

[Estarossa1]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Holy crap, I thought this loki vs ash crap died out already, they are completely different frames, pick one that fits your play style Jeez.

lol the tilte was a clickbait :) i just wanted people's opinions on both frames ;)

[kyori]

3 hours ago, ArionLightning said:

Go to Alad V assasination and see it by yourself. I did it when it was a lvl 100 sorties and I couldnt go invisible. It was disabled at the next second (and there were NO nullies next to me).

Ah my bad... you place it with stalker, so I thought it was the zanuka hunter aka harvester. So it is just the normal zanuka that is with alad v.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

43 minutes ago, Estarossa1 said:

lol the tilte was a clickbait :) i just wanted people's opinions on both frames ;)

You son of a gun lol.

[FashionFrame]

The only comparable thing with Loki and ash is they both turn invisible. That's all. Why don't we include ivara? All honesty, ash is dps, Loki is more of a team player, but people still compete these two despite only have one thing in common, and it's repetitively boring. I'll never understand it 

[Shad0wWatcher]

To be fair, even as an Ash player, i'd say Loki cause he's easier to use and requires less modifications to get his invisibility going for long periods of time while Ash requires a lot of attention, but then again it all depends on how you want to use him. If you wanna go for full steath, just focus on duration and efficiency. Sure the same could be done for Loki but you don't require as many forma as you would for Ash. Ash is still my go to frame for nearly anything tho but i just built him like an allrounder.

[(XBOX)ReadingFire229]

Both are good but I use ash for everything even spy missons

[-Dax]

This Is Just Wrong. I Will Tell You why ash is better then loki

1- first surikan 500 slash damage is really something

2-fatal teleport offer u a finisher that u can be sure u kill ur ennemi

3-the 4th aility of ash can save u in spy mission for exemple when ur at a point but a heavy ennemi is there (heavygunner....etc) u can't kill him with loki because in this time the ennemi will get eximus power and get more armor and health but with ash ur can decreass his armor with shurikan then teleporte or use bladstrom on him

that's my opinion

[(XBOX)Nacho Ese]

I've only been playing WF for about a month, but Ash has been my favorite frame of the few that I have unlocked. I built him around the smoke/fatal teleport. Nothing new there. It just feels satisfying and fits my style, as I tend to play solo a lot. I'm leveling a Loki now, but I have a feeling Ash will always be my "go-to" frame. 

 

 

[(XBOX)YoungGunn82]

Loki, a better all around frame.

Ash's 3 scales indefinitely. 

[(XBOX)LoneRyder3926]

Loki is overall better but Ash has some nice advantages like stripping armor, single target killing and stealthing others nearby 

[basketofseals]

I actually like Ash's stealth better. Loki's stealth has this awkward pause that makes you stop, but Ash's lets you just keep moving.

[Rhundis]

Well I use both, though I only use Loki for sortie defense missions. (Limbo for spy) Ash is my Eximus assassin, put Covert Leathality on a dagger and boom insta kill those pesky high levels. Granted it's slower than Bladestorm but still usable.

[-SpaceCowboy-]

On 17/01/2017 at 10:49 AM, Estarossa1 said:

and WHO IS THE BETTER SPY??

Ivara is the best spy frame. Not even close. The infiltrate augment just makes those missions childs play.

[SenorClipClop]

On 1/17/2017 at 5:49 AM, Estarossa1 said:

why so many people hate ash? his 4th ability has been reworked and guess what no one even plays him anymore ..i have only saw 1 ash in public since the beginning of the month lol..

It's probably a lot to with the Bladestorm rework, to be honest. Before the change Ash had a dedicated fanbase of edgelords and players who loved him as a map-wide nuker, but since the update many players who loved him only for his ability to nuke lost interest.

Right now he sits pretty well as a solo frame, but he doesn't add much to or stand out much in teamplay. 

[Crashen]

They are different frames, and people focus too much on invisibility. Any frame can have permanent invisibility with a huras kubrow, a good crit melee weapon, and naramon.

I have never liked loki that much because his biggest gimmick is invisibility (which is not special with the above combo) and irradiating disarm, which i dont really care about. If i want cc, i will use a cc frame.

Ash though? He has versatility. I like to solo on him with a huras, sniper rifle and covert lethality. Huras invisibility counts for the cost reduction on bladestorm, and lets me get into a good sniping position. I can fatal teleport or snipe from a distance and then use bladestorm to thin out groups, or vice versa. The fatal teleport also almost always triggers naramon stealth.

I can strip armor for teammates with shuriken or cloak friendlies if i need to, but i generally use a different frame for team play.

And dont forget, teleport can now target (destroyable) objects, so you can teleport behind the various grates in corpus spy missions. Not as versatile as loki's switch teleport and decoy, but useful.

But who is the REAL master of spy missions? Limbo + huras kubrow. The huras will cloak you while in the rift, so you can walk through security lasers with the rift and past sensors and cameras with the huras stalk. 

[Sablesword]

Let's just compare Invisibility and Smoke Screen. Invisibility is longer, but Smoke Screen is cheaper. In the long run, Invisibility gives slightly more time invisible for the amount of energy spent, but it's a very small difference. On the other hand, Smoke Screen can be cast while moving, in any position, doesn't interrupt reloads, and casts faster. This, combined with Ash's superior survivability, means that you're much less likely to be killed while you're recasting Smoke Screen. Smoke Screen also doesn't muffle all sound, which is very nice when you're looking for caches or rare containers. Smoke Screen also doesn't tint the screen like Invisibility does. On the other hand, Invisibility has the Hushed Invisibility augment, which can be handy for certain things.

Basically, Invisibility lasts longer than Smoke Screen, but Smoke Screen has much better quality of life.

On another note, Ash's passive of improved bleed procs makes him a wonderful melee frame if you have a slash build melee weapon.

[Justice_Ember]

On 17/1/2017 at 7:49 AM, Estarossa1 said:

and WHO IS THE BETTER SPY??

Ivara. 

[Acersecomic]

On 17. 01. 2017. at 11:58 AM, Estarossa1 said:

is the recent nerf that bad? cause im currently building him but anyway if i dont use his 4th ability is his other abilities good enough?

He's not bad at all, people are just spoiled little sh1ts who are too lazy to aim their ability at the enemies instead of just pressing 4 to kill everything.

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Just now, zzzNitro said:

Ivara. 

You misspelled limbo

[Acersecomic]

Just now, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

You misspelled limbo

Limbo can get spotted and can't hack while in the rift.

[Justice_Ember]

1 minute ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

You misspelled limbo

I'm calling 911, you are clearly having a stroke.

[Arniox]

On 1/17/2017 at 11:58 PM, Estarossa1 said:

is the recent nerf that bad? cause im currently building him but anyway if i dont use his 4th ability is his other abilities good enough?

meh, he's good. He's quite powerful in some situations. But he's squishy and has less invisibility than loki. Plus, he's boring as hell. He's just  a straight damage dealer...

[Aleksundar]

Really don't know why this comparison is still a thing... Loki is purely stealth tactics while Ash is based off of a silent ninja. Loki sneaks past things, Ash murders them all before (and after) he is noticed. They both have roles, and both are super fun to play as

[Aleksundar]

On January 17, 2017 at 4:08 AM, Vermitore said:

Irradiating Disarm. What more is there to say?

Fatal teleport, boom

[Aleksundar]

On January 17, 2017 at 4:24 AM, Ailissa said:

This debate has been seen a lot since his rework and I have to say I find Ash to be utterly useless whenever i've seen one in a group since the nerf.

 

They barely contribute to thinning out the mobs because by the time they have done anything we've killed everything. I have yet to see an Ash that doesn't come across as dead weight. 

 

He might be a great solo frame, I don't know, but he's pretty useless in a group. I see people say he's fine and they can play him well but I haven't seen one, not a single useful Ash since his nerf. 

 

Either these well played OP Ash players are rare or they are lying to themselves. 

 

Other frames have him beat for damage, Loki and Ivara have him beat for stealth which leaves him with weapons everyone can use. It doesn't matter how anyone spins it, a once top tier frame is now low tier, lower mid at the very best. 

Tbh, the public squads are more "run forward and murder everything with gunz super fast" Ash is a bit more centered around tactics and precision, hence his powers (except his first 2) being generally rendered useless. His seeking shruiken however, 100% slash proc, decent damage, low cost... Ash is underused because people ONLY use him for his ultimate when he is in reality one of the games most balanced frames. Next time use the frame before you dress it down XD

Edited March 21, 2017 by Aleksundar