ChameleonBro Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 18 hours ago, PsiWarp said: Indeed. The rework makes high Power Range quite viable due to AoE Banish, Rift Surge Void Lightning/Mini-Cataclysms, and Cataclysm allowing looting inside it... but all those great synergies go out the window due to Stasis' limit and its severe penalties for exceeding it. The thing is even if the Stasis limit isn't low and is really high, the power range Limbo builds are most likely going to struggle with it, if not completely die off. One thing I like about the Current Limbo is that you can make a lot of different builds around his Cataclysm and its range. Now it seems that won't be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChameleonBro Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 hours ago, Cortanis said: That was my point as well and a huge concern. Banish is one thing, but cataclysm allows units to freely enter and exit (currently). If the time stop thing works as shown, it will mean that suddenly large amounts of targets are allowed to enter the void freely and also freely push the max units cap past the limit fairly quickly. It would effectively make every level the equivalent of trying to fill a balloon with a fire hose. As such, the cap limit needs to be addressed very seriously and the effects of breaching the cap even more so. True. I still think they should just stop enemies from entering the Cataclysm when the Limit is Exceeded because we don't have control over who can come in and who can't, they can just rush you down especially infested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 they should not limit him... cz nyx can cover netire map with cc pressing 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChameleonBro Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 3 minutes ago, ashrah said: they should not limit him... cz nyx can cover netire map with cc pressing 3 Especially since some other frames can do similar things to Stasis without a limit or punishment and because Limbo is really squishy. I don't see why a fragile frame such as Limbo has to be limited like this. Again, I wouldn't mind the limit if the punishment wasn't so devastating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ZenithLord 42 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think a simple fix would be of two options: 1. He can place up to 12 or so (arbitrary number for example purposes or enemy number based on range) with the stasis power going before it doesn't allow any more to enter, or it just doesn't affect or simply slows anymore enemies that have entered the rift. 2. The rift collapses creating a damaging explosion to all enemies within the rift; to both reward the player with damage potential and punish them for putting too many enemies in the rift. Limbo would remain in rift as before the rework. It would work like cancelling Cataclysm pre-rework, but add all of the damage that occurred in the rift to the explosion. 3. (I only said 2, but bear with me.) There is no limit... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChameleonBro Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 2 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ZenithLord 42 said: I think a simple fix would be of two options: 1. He can place up to 12 or so (arbitrary number for example purposes or enemy number based on range) with the stasis power going before it doesn't allow any more to enter, or it just doesn't affect or simply slows anymore enemies that have entered the rift. 2. The rift collapses creating a damaging explosion to all enemies within the rift; to both reward the player with damage potential and punish them for putting too many enemies in the rift. Limbo would remain in rift as before the rework. It would work like cancelling Cataclysm pre-rework, but add all of the damage that occurred in the rift to the explosion. 3. (I only said 2, but bear with me.) There is no limit... There is a flaw with your second suggestion. People could abuse the damage buff from collapsing the Cataclysm (if the damage is high enough). The limit is something DE will have to work on extremely carefully, or else they are going to screw it up. I believe DE can do this and not make it broken or underpowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ZenithLord 42 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I agree! I thought I might throw something like the damage bonus to a rift collapse because Equinox can outright massacre everything with her day #4, maim and it would be a great addition when you are getting swarmed by enemies in the rift! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ashrah Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 36 minutes ago, ChameleonBro said: Especially since some other frames can do similar things to Stasis without a limit or punishment and because Limbo is really squishy. I don't see why a fragile frame such as Limbo has to be limited like this. Again, I wouldn't mind the limit if the punishment wasn't so devastating i am ok with that to frame be squishy if have good skill set like loki for example...and even after this rework we still cant pick up... orbs items so more or less he will have same problems... and on high lvl go out of rift... is risk to go down 80% of time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khlamydia Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hey DE, I know your hard at work making Limbo all shiny and new and changing his kit and thats wonderful. We really do appreciate it as a community. But, as the Devstream announced Limbo is about to be spawning multiple cataclysms all over the place and also AOE using rift powers now. In the interest of players seeing a Limbo on their public team and not rage-quitting the instant they spot him because they don't want to deal with the frustration.... I'd like to put in a request for a new Limbo augment while your working on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)ThermalStone Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 This would involve giving up yet another of Limbo''s slots to make up for the flaws in his design and prevent Limbo players from trolling. I doubt you'll get many takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azlen Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 The point is very valid, even if this augment isn't the answer. They really should think of a way to make the rift more friendly to uncoordinated sqauds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterc3 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Essentially have an augment that gives any ally in Cataclysm energy regen and invulnerability? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felipe3402 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I Think this will break some of the limbo's mechanics, I Really liked your idea, But the cataclysm is only efective on coordinated squads, Like you play with your friends. And it's not necessary say inside the cataclysm for the banish effect, One strategy is banishing a ally with a big cataclysm, Your ally will be outside the cataclysm area and still doing damage for enemys inside of it. Oh, and you can press Shift for removing the Banish effect on yourself (Only if the limbo used Banish on you, Thing like cataclysm will not work). I Liked the idea, But really, This can broke one of the limbo's "Main" mechanics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Ozymandias-13- Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I'm not sure this will be the fix, but I did mention a similar concern myself recently. Having Limbo's Cataclysms popping up all over the map as a result of his other power effect now could cause complications for the teammates and his own power synergy with Stasis' limitations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiWarp Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I can see why there would be frustration. If I was trying to shoot a group of enemies, and Limbo throws a Cataclysm on them, I would a) have to ask him to Banish me so I can gun them down, b) run into the bubble to use guns, and/or c) be forced to use damage-based abilities, using energy which I might have wanted to save for later. Since the Rework is still being playtested and all, I would love for them to experiment with a new Rift Plane effect that benefits players: - Enemies in the rift will store any weapon damage from outside the rift. - When enemies exit the rift, a percentage of that stored damage is dealt to them. This is on an individual basis. That way, players outside the rift could at least contribute damage to rifted enemies they tried to shoot, but not the full amount for balance against doing damage to enemies without them being able to retaliate because of dimensional difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)mahoshonenfox Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I think people shouldn't worry too much about the Stasis cap. If anything, its for game stability than actually capping Limbo's power. Its probably gonna be a big number. I wonder how it will affect sentinels shooting deth machine rifle, though. You can't control that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felipe3402 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 26 minutes ago, PsiWarp said: I can see why there would be frustration. If I was trying to shoot a group of enemies, and Limbo throws a Cataclysm on them, I would a) have to ask him to Banish me so I can gun them down, b) run into the bubble to use guns, and/or c) be forced to use damage-based abilities, using energy which I might have wanted to save for later. Since the Rework is still being playtested and all, I would love for them to experiment with a new Rift Plane effect that benefits players: - Enemies in the rift will store any weapon damage from outside the rift. - When enemies exit the rift, a percentage of that stored damage is dealt to them. This is on an individual basis. That way, players outside the rift could at least contribute damage to rifted enemies they tried to shoot, but not the full amount for balance against doing damage to enemies without them being able to retaliate because of dimensional difference. That's why a full coordinated team doesn't have this kind of problem. Them limbo cast the cataclysm, he banish players outside of the cataclysm's range. It's just a matter of teamplay and coordination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Tactless_Ninja Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 This would work better on Frost's bubble imo. At least you can't have 4 separate instances of cataclysm up at once. And then doubled or tripled when more Frosts are in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PsiWarp Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 1 hour ago, felipe3402 said: That's why a full coordinated team doesn't have this kind of problem. Them limbo cast the cataclysm, he banish players outside of the cataclysm's range. It's just a matter of teamplay and coordination. I agree, but none of the changes to Limbo (as far as I know) really address his hinderances to players in a public setting. The one thing that wasn't even mentioned was pickups being collectible in Rift Surge pockets and Cataclysm during the Devstream, as far as we know they could just be experimenting and not a concrete change (much to my dismay). It's about time they reviewed the Rift Plane's design and the annoyances to other players it creates, by extension making Limbo's abilities very easy to accidentally/intentionally troll players with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madraolc Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 So in the latest dev stream I caught a glimpse of Limbo's re-work and the changes to his powers look really interesting and should make him flow a lot better. (Although not too sold on his multi-popping cataclysm thing as of yet) What I was quite disappointed about was the fact that, as far as I could see, there had been no visual changes to the Rift Plain. It was still the ol' familiar grey, anxiety inducing world that slowly closes in around you -complete with strobe lighting and a very soothing high pitched whining noise. I really like Limbo, I've sunk 4 forma and a lot of practice into him and will continue to play him regardless, but c'mon people how about a little colour? The state of his "alternate plain" is irritating at best and downright depressing at worst. Not to mention, that for people like myself who play on their trusty potato PCs, whenever I enter a dark/shadowed area while in the rift I can barely see a thing ...Infested rescues are a nightmare :( All I'm suggesting is that Limbo's Rift Plain takes a mighty step back in terms of intensity. Enemies being lit up with the white, fire-like aura is a good idea, it keeps people from getting mixed up for the most part, but if the rifted world as a whole could resemble something as low key as Equinox's Maim then that would be so much better in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKihunter Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 In addition to desaturating the rift, I'd like it if the 'white fire' effect was toned down just a bit. Sometimes it completely covers enemies and makes it hard to tell what unit it is at first glance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonDoe1337 Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Playing a frame should be fun, this revamp was desperately needed to make Limbo more enjoyable to play but I agree his visuals need a change as well. after a while they really start to hurt yours eyes and make identifying enemies near impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xekrin Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 It is honestly a toss-up for me which is worse, Banshee's comic book effect or Limbo's Rift. Or is the rift that is more comic book? It's been a while since I ran either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madraolc Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 1 hour ago, AceTrainerEli said: In addition to desaturating the rift, I'd like it if the 'white fire' effect was toned down just a bit. Sometimes it completely covers enemies and makes it hard to tell what unit it is at first glance. Well there's still time before he's well and truly released. Hopefully they'll do some additional tweaking before then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
felipe3402 Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 2 hours ago, PsiWarp said: The one thing that wasn't even mentioned was pickups being collectible in Rift Surge pockets and Cataclysm during the Devstream As far as I know, You can collect resources inside the Cataclysm, But only the cataclysm. (Banish won't work) Watch this part of the Devstream again. I'm almost sure that this is not a bug or something not intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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