So about the slide attack macro

[Magneu]

I mean, I almost lost an arm in a motorcycle wreck, so I use a simple rapid M1 click macro with certain weapons on long runs cause my fingers start going wonky, but rather rarely (we're talking the hour long runs with semi-auto weapons, although I usually get around it with stretches). That, or cases with a corrupt buff Nidus, 130% Link to a max power strength corrupt Volt, cast Speed, simply couldn't click fast enough to attack, AKA messing around. I'd consider slight convenience macros ok, or even a M1/space bar for foundry crafting menu skipping. Macros that start toeing the line for Homer's bird though...

Slide macros fall into bannable territory for me, abusing speed buffs and macros to spam slide five times a second. Kudos to you if you can actually do it (seems to be pretty rare), but it's become an outside the game meta of using software to play the game. I've seen someone trigger a macro that spammed slide, attack, and held W; it became obvious when a lockdown started (doors wouldn't open), and they kept sliding against the locked door with no pause (I unlocked the doors two minutes later, after watching them never stop). At that point, you just have to point yourself through the level and you win, effective to sortie levels.

This is the sort of thing that is hurting longevity of the game, and why some players complain of content being trivial, when you can spam a 26m AOE and kill everything.

[ComCray]

What is interesting to me about this whole thing is that before it never was a problem. Occasionally people would ask, for themselves, if it was okay to use a macro. But since the playerbase is now saturated with the boltace and meta-players found out the slide attack is effective, people are screaming bloody murder over this.

It Is Not The Macros. It's the boltace and it's effect that bothers most of you people. Stop begging for bans and come with some constructive ideas how to mitigate these annoyances. Banning macros is NOT going to solve your issues (because nimble players will STILL spam the clem out of that setup).

 

@Magneu: you DO realise that many melee weapons ignore doors right? So when a player notices plenty enemies behind said door, which they can reach with their melee, keeping the door closed is a VERY smart tactic. I do this all the time with the Atterax and I'll keep doing it as long as my radar shows red arrows behind said door. If it is an infested mission this might indeed take some time because these brainless meatsacks will just keep coming.

Also: " when you can spam a 26m AOE and kill everything "
I've been doing this exact same thing with the Atterax ever since the Primed Reach came out. No one EVER complained about that. Again: this in itself is obviously not the problem.

Edited February 20, 2017 by ComCray

[Magneu]

1 hour ago, ComCray said:

What is interesting to me about this whole thing is that before it never was a problem. Occasionally people would ask, for themselves, if it was okay to use a macro. But since the playerbase is now saturated with the boltace and meta-players found out the slide attack is effective, people are screaming bloody murder over this.

It Is Not The Macros. It's the boltace and it's effect that bothers most of you people. Stop begging for bans and come with some constructive ideas how to mitigate these annoyances. Banning macros is NOT going to solve your issues (because nimble players will STILL spam the clem out of that setup).

 

@Magneu: you DO realise that many melee weapons ignore doors right? So when a player notices plenty enemies behind said door, which they can reach with their melee, keeping the door closed is a VERY smart tactic. I do this all the time with the Atterax and I'll keep doing it as long as my radar shows red arrows behind said door. If it is an infested mission this might indeed take some time because these brainless meatsacks will just keep coming.

Also: " when you can spam a 26m AOE and kill everything "
I've been doing this exact same thing with the Atterax ever since the Primed Reach came out. No one EVER complained about that. Again: this in itself is obviously not the problem.

Said player was using a Telos Boltace, and the waves from said weapons do not penetrate doors. This was also an Exterminate, so enemies weren't exactly lining up at the door. Regardless of weapon, he never stopped, and continued on sliding when I opened the doors, making it highly likely he was mostly AFK. Such interactive mechanics. 

In any case, macros were never an issue before because spamming slide attacks wasn't particularly good, or at least it wasn't worth the effort. With Maiming Strike (which was a grand mistake of a mod), and now with the Telos Boltace, spamming slide attacks has become an extremely effective way to kill enemies with very little input. Combine slide attacks with the 90% flat bonus of MS and its interaction with Blood Rush, and you have a problem. Throw in Naramom (which even Nullifiers can't dispel), and you have something completely broken.

If someone wants to spam slides, go on ahead. Abusing software to slide faster than humanly sustainable...that's not ok.

[--Dark_Rage--]

All those, who use macros should be banned, without any concessions. 

If someone is too helpless and not being able to press just elementary 2-3 buttons, and uses for this special software to press only one button, then such "players" should not be here.

They should not play our favorite game together with normal players.

Dear D.E. , please take a decision to ban all macro users.

 

[ComCray]

8 hours ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

All those, who use macros should be banned, without any concessions. 

If someone is too helpless and not being able to press just elementary 2-3 buttons, and uses for this special software to press only one button, then such "players" should not be here.

They should not play our favorite game together with normal players.

Dear D.E. , please take a decision to ban all macro users.

 

Ok, let's say DE manages to devise a way to register (constant) input-speed beyond 'what is possible' with a simple keyboard+mouse. Because that is what you guys are asking for right?

Now, this is my gaming-setup:

 

 

This adds up to ~14+6 input points on my left hand and ~2x16 input points on my right (there's a shift key). This, in theory, allows me to simultaneously do various actions, Up to dropping a pizza while doing a bullet-jump, zoom - shoot, turn then reload and a slash dash near instantly after that (which is awesome to do btw). And do this consistently. Not once or twice but as much times as I have pizzas and ammo. I would constantly trigger that "hunt the macro" script while not even using a macro. 

People who use a controller over M&Kb would run into the exact same issue. Even people who have just a few more buttons then the basic 3to5 on their mouse would soon run into this.

And then I'm not even touching the whole 'what is possible' issue. My son, who is also a Tenno, has insane M&Kb skills. Whenever he plays TF2 he has people screaming "cheater" at him because of this. He would probably also trigger said script because of his skill level is far above what is deemed possible by many.
In other words, who decides the bottomline here? Who decides what is or isn't humanly possible?

Should the script then trigger if someone is running into walls while using melee? Like I explained in a previous comment: I do this often when I see enemies on the other end which I can reach with my melee. Should people be banned for paying attention? For being smart? For being nimble?

 

You see what an immense can of worms this is? And all of this why? Because you can't deal with the inane particle effects and sounds? There could be a myriad of other ways to deal with these don't you think?

 

Banning people outright is akin to how Judge Death* deals with criminality: only humans are criminals, so kill all humans and then no more criminals. Yay. Problem solved. Simplistic. Crude. And in the end not really what you were looking for. Because, like I said earlier: annoying particle effects and noises will STILL be part of your experience.

 

*) this guy:

 

 

Edited February 20, 2017 by ComCray

[--Dark_Rage--]

49 minutes ago, ComCray said:

Ok, let's say DE manages to devise a way to register (constant) input-speed beyond 'what is possible' with a simple keyboard+mouse. Because that is what you guys are asking for right?

Now, this is my gaming-setup:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

This adds up to ~14+6 input points on my left hand and ~2x16 input points on my right (there's a shift key). This, in theory, allows me to simultaneously do various actions, Up to dropping a pizza while doing a bullet-jump, zoom - shoot, turn then reload and a slash dash near instantly after that (which is awesome to do btw). And do this consistently. Not once or twice but as much times as I have pizzas and ammo. I would constantly trigger that "hunt the macro" script while not even using a macro. 

People who use a controller over M&Kb would run into the exact same issue. Even people who have just a few more buttons then the basic 3to5 on their mouse would soon run into this.

And then I'm not even touching the whole 'what is possible' issue. My son, who is also a Tenno, has insane M&Kb skills. Whenever he plays TF2 he has people screaming "cheater" at him because of this. He would probably also trigger said script because of his skill level is far above what is deemed possible by many.
In other words, who decides the bottomline here? Who decides what is or isn't humanly possible?

Should the script then trigger if someone is running into walls while using melee? Like I explained in a previous comment: I do this often when I see enemies on the other end which I can reach with my melee. Should people be banned for paying attention? For being smart? For being nimble?

 

You see what an immense can of worms this is? And all of this why? Because you can't deal with the inane particle effects and sounds? There could be a myriad of other ways to deal with these don't you think?

 

Banning people outright is akin to how Judge Death* deals with criminality: only humans are criminals, so kill all humans and then no more criminals. Yay. Problem solved. Simplistic. Crude. And in the end not really what you were looking for. Because, like I said earlier: annoying particle effects and noises will STILL be part of your experience.

 

*) this guy:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

ComCray, i remember you.

Once you have been in a random squad with me on the survival mission a few months ago.

You "played" Rhino with Atterax, and you killed mobs non-stop in the opposite end of the map, too far from the squad, creating a problem with oxygen and reactant to your teammates. It was very annoying to all the squad.

That day i immediately understood that you are on macros, which included not easy 2-3 buttons, but much more, and it also included movement. And thats very terrible, because you are not playing , but game play for you.

The possibility of your gaming-setup does not justify the use of macros, and it does not matter that the software comes from the manufacturer of your devices.

In fact its the process automation.

[Magneu]

23 minutes ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

ComCray, i remember you.

Once you have been in a random squad with me on the survival mission a few months ago.

You "played" Rhino with Atterax, and you killed mobs non-stop in the opposite end of the map, too far from the squad, creating a problem with oxygen and reactant to your teammates. It was very annoying to all the squad.

That day i immediately understood that you are on macros, which included not easy 2-3 buttons, but much more, and it also included movement. And thats very terrible, because you are not playing , but game play for you.

The possibility of your gaming-setup does not justify the use of macros, and it does not matter that the software comes from the manufacturer of your devices.

In fact its the process automation.

Once you hit that level of remote game-playing, I imagine it can be hard to descend to the mundane levels of normies like non macro-abusers.

Sorry to hijack your comment, but just to add on to this, I have a Logitech mouse with 12 side buttons (four abilities, swap guns, quick melee/channel, consumables, etc), and I can drop a pizza, bullet jump, aim, shoot etc using only my left hand on the keyboard/right hand on the mouse; simple timing with individual fingers. I can consistently do that, and mix in rolls, direction changes, weapon swaps, parkour, etc, and I consider myself a proficient gamer at most (although Conclave is great practice).

Implying that quick actions can trigger a macro hunt script is laughable; gamers consistently can perform input actions non-gamers cannot. Just look at someone who's played Halo for a year vs. a first-timer; familiarity with controls and game mechanics woks wonders.

What macro hunt scripts will catch is a button combo being (a) repeated too fast for humans (e.g. a rapid-clicked clicking thirty times or more a second), or (b) slide attacks happening five time a second; I have an extremely hard time believing that a normal human can consistently do that button combo for over two minutes straight like I often see (for my keybindings, that would be hold W, Q to slide, LMB to attack (insert perfect timing here), repeat step two and three, with Shift run command when necessary. 

Imagine that someone binds slide to RMB and attack to LMB, using Shift for run (thereby ruining most normal play, unless utilizing Logitech G-Shift or something); go and try to RMB/LMB and throw in Shift five times a second for multiple minutes at a time. It's simply not sustainable (but if you can do it, you're some sort of demi-human).

Convenience macros are ok, like I believe I previously said. Macros that bypass game mechanics/human limits are pushing a limit to a computer playing the game for you. Granted, sometimes it's fun to mess around with macros, but if the game detects macro abuse multiple matches in a row, you should get hit with some sort of punishment.

If this was a purely solo game, I wouldn't care. But this is a team game, and macro-abusers create a problem where software performs above-human possible combinations, killing everything in a massive radius with the bonus of obnoxious FX that blinds players, showing an immense disregard for the other people in the squad (seriously, if you're going to kill everything by yourself, why even go public?), thereby reducing the enjoyment of the game for others. Hell, think of it from an immersion standpoint; 

 

"Man, I'm a badass space ninja. Gonna bullet jump over that guy, shoot that guy in the head, cut that guys legs out from un-"

SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING SCHWING 

"Huh. That shouldn't be possible even by Warframe physics standards. Can't even see the enemies with the bright green particle spray. Welp, better go pick up loot and resign myself to killing a few stragglers."

 

There's a difference between "gamer above average input speed" even regarding the top percentile, and "the game says this guy is clicking the mouse button faster than its mechanical switch is actually rated for" or "the game says this guy has spammed a four button combo at the rate of twenty buttons a second without pause for three minutes".

[ComCray]

1 hour ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

ComCray, i remember you.

Once you have been in a random squad with me on the survival mission a few months ago.

You "played" Rhino with Atterax, and you killed mobs non-stop in the opposite end of the map, too far from the squad, creating a problem with oxygen and reactant to your teammates. It was very annoying to all the squad.

That day i immediately understood that you are on macros, which included not easy 2-3 buttons, but much more, and it also included movement. And thats very terrible, because you are not playing , but game play for you.

The possibility of your gaming-setup does not justify the use of macros, and it does not matter that the software comes from the manufacturer of your devices.

In fact its the process automation.

Nope. There's only one macro I use and that is a simple "press 'e' multiple times". That's it. And I do this otherwise, as a melee player, my index finger starts to hurt (I'm old and RSI is real). I stil have to aim, I still have to move. If you see me slipping, sliding, jumping, tumbling  -anything other then whacking about, then I'm not using said macro. The 'headshots' I get? Are generally from the Atterax. Aiming is a thing. Your assumption was wrong.

If I move away from the team that is down to blood-lust, I apologize if that inconvenienced you. I look at my map and trace where the red dots are. I go where the enemies are. If there's multiple reactant around, I mark the spot and tell the team. I generally move away from teams that use nuke-methods to kill mobs, I'm in this game to kill and cause massive amounts of carnage, not to sit around and have others kill for me. If anyone would have asked me to stick with the team, I would have. Or, in rare occasions, would have said no and bailed (because of nuke frames, simulor or tonkor spammers or somesuch).

I'm fast though. That's down to choice of mods and, as a rhino, I have that arcane helmet that gives extra speed. But mainly skill and having the right commands at my fingertips.

 

35 minutes ago, Magneu said:

for my keybindings, that would be hold W, Q to slide, LMB to attack (insert perfect timing here), repeat step two and three, with Shift run command when necessary. 

Q to slide...? Is that a macro? Seems counter intuitive to me... Whatever the case, try this:

Shift for running, ctrl for crouching. shift+w, ctrl+e. There's your slide attack. Shift and control are accessed by my pinky, don't even have to move it. I can do this constantly as fast as the game allows. Muscle memory, level knowledge and all that (I play this game since 2013 and games in general for, oh, over 30 years?).

[IggySnow]

1 minute ago, ComCray said:

 

 

Q to slide...? Is that a macro? Seems counter intuitive to me... Whatever the case, try this:

Shift for running, ctrl for crouching. shift+w, ctrl+e. There's your slide attack. Shift and control are accessed by my pinky, don't even have to move it. I can do this constantly as fast as the game allows. Muscle memory, level knowledge and all that (I play this game since 2013 and games in general for, oh, over 30 years?).

Different people have different keyboards. I used to play on a laptop and pressing Lctrl was easy, but now that im on a desktop and they keyboard is bigger pressing Lctrl actually hurts my finger after 10 min

[Eldnacpeek]

On 2/18/2017 at 9:36 PM, MillbrookWest said:

Though it'll be interesting to see in what why they condemn DE for any changes forthcoming. 

 

When it's very clearly their own doing, quite. 

[ComCray]

Just now, HerpDerpy said:

Different people have different keyboards. I used to play on a laptop and pressing Lctrl was easy, but now that im on a desktop and they keyboard is bigger pressing Lctrl actually hurts my finger after 10 min

Fair enough. The shift+ctrl combo has been in my muscle memory ever since farcry 2. The move from shift-to-control is a matter of arching my pinky or not, regardless of which input device I use (nostromo, MS sidewinder X Kb or logitech gaming KB) . I have relatively long and agile fingers though, so that might help.

[ComCray]

2 hours ago, --Dark_Rage-- said:

That day i immediately understood that you are on macros, which included not easy 2-3 buttons, but much more, and it also included movement. And thats very terrible, because you are not playing , but game play for you.

I just realized. Your assessment of the situation is EXACTLY what I was on about. You regarded it as impossible for a person to do this without macros. Which I take as a compliment, ofcourse, but it also highlighted what I meant to say: great skill will look as automated actions to those unacquainted with such skill. Not saying you're a n00b or anything, but apparently you're not (yet) on my level. 

Believe me, when you put me in a PvP environment, you'll see me absolutely butchered by others with much more proficiency in that area. I suck at PvP. Big time.

 

edit: when I'm on later we might meet up and do a match together. Just you and me. See me move about and I'll tell you when the macro is on or off. Would you be interested?

Edited February 20, 2017 by ComCray

[Knight_Ex]

Again, would be really nice to get an actually DE member to chime in here, someone like @[DE]Danielle  Could probably point us in the right direction, cause I'm seeing allot of people who use Macro's defending the use of them from nothing more than pure laziness, I could understand if it was for a disability but to use a macro just because you don't feel like doing 3 button inputs is kinda stupid.

[Knight_Ex]

Bumping this post because contrary to what DE probably wants I don't want to let this die, also for the record it wasn't only the telos boltace, Ive seen this done with the secura lecta, Attrax and the Ohma, basically any weapon that has a decent slide attack could be exploited by use of this macro, I would just really prefer an official response here to finally put this to rest.

[Skaleek]

They could fix this pretty easily by putting an internal cooldown on spin attack modified by your attackspeed coefficient.

[Chipputer]

On 2/20/2017 at 0:53 AM, ComCray said:

It Is Not The Macros.

It's the macros.

I don't like having a Memeace spammer in my runs, but one that isn't using a macro isn't creating a dead zone compared to one that is. There's a huge difference. Just because you want to try to justify how you play the game doesn't mean you can ignore facts.

There's an upper limit to how fast you can manually input your spin attacks that macros can break. It's obvious. It happens. It kills gameplay for everyone else in the squad. Denying it and trying to shift the entirety of the blame to the Memeace, itself, is intellectually dishonest because it works on other weapons, too, such as the Atterax. Those ones are even worse because they can spin without having to manually equip them, at full efficiency.

[IggySnow]

16 minutes ago, Chipputer said:

It's the macros.

I don't like having a Memeace spammer in my runs, but one that isn't using a macro isn't creating a dead zone compared to one that is. There's a huge difference. Just because you want to try to justify how you play the game doesn't mean you can ignore facts.

There's an upper limit to how fast you can manually input your spin attacks that macros can break. It's obvious. It happens. It kills gameplay for everyone else in the squad. Denying it and trying to shift the entirety of the blame to the Memeace, itself, is intellectually dishonest because it works on other weapons, too, such as the Atterax. Those ones are even worse because they can spin without having to manually equip them, at full efficiency.

I can slide attack almost as fast as macros can. just less consistent. instead of doing an attack every .2 seconds ill be doing one on average every .3 seconds. (not actual numbers but still)

[ComCray]

2 hours ago, Chipputer said:

It's the macros.

I don't like having a Memeace spammer in my runs, but one that isn't using a macro isn't creating a dead zone compared to one that is. There's a huge difference. Just because you want to try to justify how you play the game doesn't mean you can ignore facts.

There's an upper limit to how fast you can manually input your spin attacks that macros can break. It's obvious. It happens. It kills gameplay for everyone else in the squad. Denying it and trying to shift the entirety of the blame to the Memeace, itself, is intellectually dishonest because it works on other weapons, too, such as the Atterax. Those ones are even worse because they can spin without having to manually equip them, at full efficiency.

So, in short, you're calling me a liar.

Because your mind cannot comprehend how the Atterax, with 5 forma, boosted by rhino's roar, manages to butcher a mass of mid-tier Grineer in a matter of seconds. Without macros. 

Do you know anyone who mains an atterax? Probably not. 

Get one. Boost it. Then come back and tell me how I was a liar.

this is my current build: https://goo.gl/pJeSJB

This conversation is now over.

Wait. you were talking about the boltace. Then my argument is, again, I have been slide-butchering mobs since about feb 2015. No one EVER complained about it. The only bad thing I ever heard was from my clan leader who called it "cray's melee simulor". More people have this beast and these are all butchers. We talk about it on the forums, nothing. I suggest it to my alliance, no one bites. 

The Boltace comes on the scene, with all the noise and the flashes: the forums explode and whenever I mention that the atterax can do the same, it's immediately all down to macros.

You people. Get a grip and learn how to play for clem's sake.

Edited February 24, 2017 by ComCray

[CeePee]

1 hour ago, Chipputer said:

It's the macros.

I don't like having a Memeace spammer in my runs, but one that isn't using a macro isn't creating a dead zone compared to one that is. There's a huge difference. Just because you want to try to justify how you play the game doesn't mean you can ignore facts.

There's an upper limit to how fast you can manually input your spin attacks that macros can break. It's obvious. It happens. It kills gameplay for everyone else in the squad. Denying it and trying to shift the entirety of the blame to the Memeace, itself, is intellectually dishonest because it works on other weapons, too, such as the Atterax. Those ones are even worse because they can spin without having to manually equip them, at full efficiency.

Wait what, your problem is people killing stuff, how's macros got anything to do with that? Let's ban everyone who kills stuff, right? Especially those Embers, they create a lot bigger dead zone than a boltace, that's unacceptable.

I got ctrl + E bound on my mouse thumb button, but you're calling it a macro so we'll go with that. I can press the thumb button multiple times a second, doing multiple spins a second. You're telling me that's a bad thing?

[Knight_Ex]

17 hours ago, CeePee said:

Wait what, your problem is people killing stuff, how's macros got anything to do with that? Let's ban everyone who kills stuff, right? Especially those Embers, they create a lot bigger dead zone than a boltace, that's unacceptable.

I got ctrl + E bound on my mouse thumb button, but you're calling it a macro so we'll go with that. I can press the thumb button multiple times a second, doing multiple spins a second. You're telling me that's a bad thing?

 

The problem is using a program to give you an advantage over other players, sure you can do it manually, try doing a repeated slide attack for 2-3 hours straight which I have seen, eventually you will get tired of the repeated 3 button input vs the person that only has to do one input or switch something on and not even bother with one input, you really don't see a problem with this? Keep in mind marco's in these types of games are mainly for those who have a disability, not lazy people who try to take shortcuts.

[CeePee]

4 minutes ago, Knight_Ex said:

 

The problem is using a program to give you an advantage over other players, sure you can do it manually, try doing a repeated slide attack for 2-3 hours straight which I have seen, eventually you will get tired of the repeated 3 button input vs the person that only has to do one input or switch something on and not even bother with one input, you really don't see a problem with this? Keep in mind marco's in these types of games are mainly for those who have a disability, not lazy people who try to take shortcuts.

So you're suggesting people rather get RSI? No thanks, I'll keep my macros.

[SilvaDreams]

13 minutes ago, CeePee said:

So you're suggesting people rather get RSI? No thanks, I'll keep my macros.

No just learn to take a break and not play 4+ hours in a row.

[VirtualViolet]

They won't just ban all macros because macros are necessary for some people with limited mobility or fine muscle control. However, it has always been their stance that abuse of such things is not tolerated. Hence, the "vague" responses to threads like these.

[Lawmonark]

I dont see macros going anywhere. They been a part of PC gaming since the beginning. If macros "bother" you that much.... there is always console gaming.

 

Regardless if a person has a disability or if they do not (sorry if you do, but it seems everyone had an accident on the internet).... ANYONE can use macros. Most gaming mouses come with them. I do not get why people are bothered by what other people do in a mainly PVE game.  Macros dont help you in conclave, so i dont see an issue.

 

If it really bothers you that much, play with clan members and friends. Personally i think simulor+ mirage spam is worse than a macro that allows you to spin with a button press.

Also you dont "need" a macros to spam spin. You can do it simply with a re-keybind of "Crouch and Attack" to your mouse wheel. Scroll up/down to spam spin.

[Wolfdoggie]

I can rapid spin super fast because my M4 and M5 are crouch and melee so pressing them with a quick roll of the thumb makes it easy.

I've been also using spin2win before it was cool as well, /putsonhipsterglasses, before maiming strike dayz.