MTO: The Grind

[ComCray]

My Take On: The Grind.

This is a regularly appearing complaint: the game is so grindey, the game has nothing new to do, everything is the same.. This generally comes from people with well over 100 hours in the game. I'm starting to take issue with it, seriously, because these people forget some essential things. In this post I will address some of those. These are all opinions of an opinionated grumpy old bastige with over 30 years of gaming experience. Take them with a healthy dose of humor and and a helping of salt. Please.

1. Game length and the lies of replay-ability
Let us first look at what generally is offered in the sense of play-time of AAA-titles. I have seen this drastically decrease in the past 15 to 20 years. 
I remember Half-Life took me months. Not because it was hard or anything (which at times it was), but because I had a great time revisiting areas and admiring the architecture and the way the level design hinted at there always being more then I already explored. Which often turned out not to be the case, but the mere idea I would miss something had me reload a previous level more then once. THis was new, in relation to what came before that. Another title, hands down the best game I EVER played, was System Shock 2. I played that to death and I always have a version of that installed on my pc. It was way ahead of it's time in regards to game-depth and can still go toe-to-toe with current titles in the sense of game-play and replayabillity.
Fast forward 18 years and we get games that barely last me a week. Ok, the visuals have greatly improved but the game systems and patterns haven't really changed all that much. Most "open world games" are nothing more then regurgitated nonsense with a new coat of paint. Some might have a new-ish feature, a gimmick, that stands out but these are quickly buried under a mountain of same-old bland game features. They also generally don't really lend themselves to multiple playthroughs. after two runs you kind of seen all the game hgas to offer and there's little in the sense of variety to play around with. 
And these are, generally, 60 dollar/euro titles. That is 60 dollars for what, 60 hours if you REALLY put in an effort. And MAYBE some DLC that makes it worth to revisit the game, for which you pay another 20 bucks. Most of these games become stale after one or two playthroughs and are subject for removal as soon as the next game comes into view. 
Look at CoD for instance. 90% of what that game offers is EXACTLY the same as the games that came before. There's nothing new except (maybe) for the setting and the coat of paint. Oh, and when they tried something actually new, with the newest installment, fans cried bloody murder about it. 

Now compare that to the sheer amount of content this FREE2play game has to offer. Look at this game from a new player perspective. It'll take weeks (if not months) to get through all the content that is on offer. And as for replayabillity, the sheer amount of weapons and frames and the combinations thereof alone can keep a person occupied for months on end (has kept me here for about 4 years now). 

That is, IF you like the game-world and the game-play it offers.

2. Looting rewarding rewards
For anyone who is even remotely into collecting things, this game has a crapton to offer. More so then any other game out there (safe for maybe the real MMOs like WoW). Frames, Weapons, companions, cosmetics, archwings... there is SO MUCH in this game, and 99% of it is FREE.
And there's the catch, I think. I think there's a segment of Tenno that are here solely for the free stuff. Not because they like the gameplay so much, or are even interested in what the game-world is about,  but purely because there's stuff to be gotten, for free no less. 
But when the actual games stand between them and the free stuff, this becomes an issue. Time is a currency, and we should not kid ourselves in thinking this is not so. This counts doubly so for people with families and/or work or study. Time is money. Having to play a game you're not really interested in to get stuff you actually don't need sounds a LOT like work. And if no-one you know in the real world is interested in this game, or games in general, all this work might as well not exist.
But let's be honest. Which other games out there rewards doing what you like to do so consistently? I honestly don't know. Again, the only games that come close are the MMOs like EverQuest, WoW and the space-opera-sims like Eve onine.
But these are games that have been developing since eons. These are 14 to 20 year old games. It's not even fair to expect the same kind of width and depth of this 4 year old game. 
Oh.. and let me remind you: none of these are free. 

However, on the other hand, if you really like the game-mechanics of Warframe and the world that revolves around it, this game is oh-so rewarding. For everything you do, there's a reward. A surprise. A present. Free. If you really like this game, you end up playing it. If you can get your mind out of the need for a particular thing, everything you get is a reward.
ANd even if what you get is not exactly what you want, there's a myriad of enjoyable ways to convert said reward into the thing you really wanted. 

That is, again, IF you like the game-world and the game-play it offers.

3. In development
As I hinted at in the previous section: this game is still in it's infancy. It might sound as much, four years, but compared to certain other games out there that is nothing. In this instance it's not even fair to compare it to WoW's beginnings. That game started out with a fleshed out world with depth and lore and Lotus knows what else. Wow might have seen it's inception in 2004, the world behind it was already existing since 1994. And, tbh, Orcs, dwarves, Humans, Elves and Wizards? There was absolutely nothing new there. Frell, one could even argue that that world already existed since Tolkien's The Hobbit, which saw it's first print way back in 1937. That is 80 years. EIGHTY YEARS. Everquest is pretty much based on the exact same archetypes. So, nothing really new there too. Eve online? That is merely this world copied into space. There is nothing intrinsically new to that game apart from it's settings and it's coat. But it might as well be a game about the big wide sea of earth.

Warframe is new. It's unique. There is NOTHING out there like it. And it's made by a relative handful of people with no background whatsoever in writing huge epic world-building-and-breaking stories like Tolkien, Robert Jordan, Tanith Lee or George Martin. Nope. They have been influenced by a huge variety of media, and each has their own ideas and desires and expectations about what they are creating. Sure. But none of them, AFAIK, has any experience in groundbreaking literature or culture.

A lot of complaints about the grindyness is see out there just won't take this in account. It seems, to me, many of my brethren Tenno haven't got even the remotest grasp of what is involved in world-building and seem to approach this game with the expectation there's already a WF world out there. As if this is a finished product that is in need of polishing. That here's some guide-book at DE and if only they would be so kind as to follow the step by step guide. But there isn't. Everything that is produced is as new to the team as it is to us.
Warframe isn't a product, it's a journey, an adventure. And a great and interesting one at that.

That is, yet again, IF you like the game-world and the game-play it offers.

4. DE are our friends
Add al of the above to DE's insistence of trying to cater to their fans. Who does this? Which company out there even remotely does what they do with us? Hell, most content creators out there won't even look outside of their own discipline for pointers on how to proceed with their IP.
 
Most notably there's the Alien Franchise and that absolute [omg - censored] Ridley Scott. After he made Alien there have been several movies, a couple of games and - more importantly, a whole stack of books and comics wherein the world of the Xenomorph has been explored and fleshed out. Then comes that cu... err Scott with a new movie, completely obliterating any lore, any background that the culture itself has created. And don't get me started on that eyesore Gearboxes Alien:Colonial Marines. Anyone of you who has read the Dark Horse comic series of the exact same name can see how these absolutely inept morons have completely botched the job. 
Did these assh.. errr.. people even listen to their fanbase? Are they even aware the fanbase exist? Considering what they produce my money is on "HELL NO".

But DE? DE informs us. Talks with us. Listens. Admits mistakes. Rewrites whole sections of gameplay on the whims of their opinionated customer base. Why? I haven't got a clue. But they do it. And most bewildering of all: they actually seem to enjoy it. They LOVE interacting with their fans. And they LOVE seeing their fans interact with each other.

This too is new and wholly unprecedented. With no guidebook on how to do this, no tutorials, no discernable backgrounds in customer satisfaction DE just jumped in the deep end. Just because they thought it was the right way to go about things. This notion alone should have put them on the map big time. But since DE doesn't do Marketing (in the traditional sense) they don't brag about this. They don't flaunt this. They giggle about it because it's new and exciting.

With this in mind they are IMHO entitled to as much leeway as they need. With this in mind I can be far more forgiving with my judgement of their product as I would ever be about a company like Bungee, Hello Games or these cu... err... Gearbox.

Because for all it's faults, I also happen to LOVE this game-world and the game-play it offers.

5. In closing.

If you really think this game is tedious, grindy, too much of the same, maybe, just maybe, it is time for you to move on. If you have clocked over 100 hours into this FREE game, cleared the star chart, gotten all the frames and weapons that are currently available then, for all intents and purposes, you're done. You have finished the game. Even with new levels and some new game-play elements: warframe will STILL be the same old game. The actual game-play won't change (much). The patterns herein won't really change (much). There will be no game-altering changes in the near foreseeable future. The essence of the game won't change, the game world - even with the addition of 1000 pages of lore, won't actually change.

I would hate to see you go but I would hate it more if the mere notion of a new reward forces you into an activity you're actually done with.

Because for all it's faults and whining I LOVE this community as well.

[Zepp_]

I only read part 5, but I agree.  

[(XBOX)Senor Twix]

+1

But I cannot tell if you are complaining about the people complaining about the grind, or if you are addressing positive things about the game.

Either way, very well put together. 

[arch111]

I enjoyed reading that, thank you. As a oldtimer I have seen much change in games these last decades and the seriousness and extreme money involved actually take the fun out and break good companys.

Warframe is the ONLY game I have stayed with for this long. And while the weird art and science got me hooked, the community and devs made me stay.

I am still enjoying it, and I play it my way. The only ones who miss the point are those who buy everything, get high MR as fast as they can, and then asks where the endgame is.

The journey is the goal for me, and I await the full reveal of the story that started it all years ago.

[Nostdrea]

I have tried to explain to veterans in the past that "The Grind" is mostly based on perception, but have had little luck. I intend to bookmark this and in the future, simply point to this post for ease and clarity.

Also I especially agree with your points in part four: a dev team which listens to its players and informs them of upcoming additions and changes is seemingly an anomaly in this world.

Thank you for writing what needed, and needs to be said.

[Miser_able]

I wish I could give than 1 point. I couldn't have said it better had you given me years to work with. This kind of thing should be pinned to the homepage for all to see. Good job. 

[(PSN)robotwars7]

i definitely agree with your first point: games these days are far less substantial, yet are getting much more expensive much quicker. I still remember the PS2 glory days where  new game was £19.99 and you could read the manual on the way home. I always feel disheartened when I see there's no manual, even though it's the norm these days, and all because a few hippies want to save some damn trees... smh. anyway, games with less than at LEAST 10 hours charging full price are a rip-off, and 4-hour long campaigns of today's FPS's make me cringe. whatever happened to the days of the proper single player campaign? granted, some games still try, but nowadays it's online or nothing, and that's silly, because they never think "what if the person's internet gives out/Sony's network hamsters die again?" etc. I hate online-only, it shouldn't be a thing until the day we achieve PERFECT internet connections, which will be some time in a thousand years or so, if ever. anyway, moving on before I burst a blood vessel over the way games are made these days:

rewards are definitely important, but I'm biased in favour of loot-based games anyway as a Borderlands lover. "kill x for money and shiny guns" is hard-wired at this point, and Warframe has usually kept me satisfied in this regard. I've been loving the Euphona Prime recently, can't wait for the Akimbo version in late 2036!!

I haven't been here the full 4 years, but in the 2.5 (roughly) that I have, the game has changed in ways I couldn't have imagined, and (mostly) for the better. compared to other developers it does seem that DE know what they're doing, but of course they are still human and are bound to make mistakes (like the pacifism Defect). but what separates them from the likes of Bungie (Destiny Bungie, not classic Halo Bungie everyone loved) is that they actually try to fix bugs and mistakes, rather than leave them to stew and toxify the playerbase. sure, we could use more buffs/nerfs here and there, but whenever something major doesn't go according to plan (like Baro bringing the wrong stuff), it's fixed the same day.

as a Borderlands fan, I can't jump on the gearbox-bashing train, nor will I deny the Existence of Duke Nukem: Forever, Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel or Aliens: Colonial marines (they're only human, though it seems if they don't put a colon in the titles of their games, they turn out to be quite good!). DE communicate far better with their fans than Bungie ever did (again, new bungie, pls no hate old Halo fans), with streams out the wazoo and fairly frequent news updates.

to each their own though, the grind can be a bit much for some and here on console we pretty much have to take breaks since we go entire months without updates, and after 4 weeks of nothing to do but Forma things, one starts losing their sanity. if you think Warframe's grind is hard, you should probably stay well away from hardcore Korean MMOs, otherwise you might see the depths of hell itself!

TLDR: modern games suck in several ways, Warframe is good, OP was well said.

 

 

 

[xXx_mtv_xXx]

We used to spend a lot of time on games and admire every texture because the industry was making huge leaps back then and many games were unique and revolutionary.

Nowadays there's little that can impress us anymore with all these recycled ideas and mechanics being repackaged into new games over and over again. Plus we got older and more cynical, so it's simply harder to impress us with anything.

I play Warframe because it's unique and fun and because I honestly have nothing better to play lately. Hopefully that will change soon with the new Mass Effect...

[Aleksundar]

Thank you for voicing that which some of us are thinking. 

[Artekkor]

That was a good read. Well said, good sir! Is there a "favorite thread" button somewhere?

People in this community love to trash DE on every turn, while forgetting that DE is offering way more than most other companies would these days.

This is like an abusive relationship where the DE is a good boyfriend and the community is a spoiled whiny girlfriend.