Nyx Assimilate fix is a massive nerf

[Stykera]

I am crying for real!
This is such a nerf to one of my favorite themed warframes. The most painful thing about it is that it was totally uncalled for. 
If any, she needed a slight buff, not the other way around. This is the first time i actually take the time to write in these forums, and i do it cuz this is just madness, madness i tell you!

Pls reconsider.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Stykera

[Treebiter]

Some points have been raised that suggest Assimilate was overpowered. I respectfully disagree.

Even before the fix I was rarely the highest-damage dealing frame in a round. The augment allowed Nyx to fit the classic  tank archetype; a damage sponge who lacks the DPS ability of other squishier frames. Even with Assimilate, Kuva floods weren't 'cheesed'. You still needed a good team and your energy will drain very quickly if you're ganged up upon.

Having had s few days to think about it, I now think the most appropriate change may be to remove the damage-dealing capability of Assimilate entirely, thus removing this whole issue and adding greater distinction between Absorb and Assimilate.

[Witzel5ucht]

Why not just bring back Friendly Fire Nightmare Mode? That was intended as well. Nothing will go wrong if players don't troll.

That's all I have to say on this topic.

[TrivialTax]

My lovely pink-white Nyx ;( I was a teamplayer with poor dmg, and now I am press-3 bot with team issues. Got to stick with Mirrage+sinoid+telos boltor +2 OP other frames - the only thing DE loves. "Diversity"

[RedDirtTrooper]

Awful decision. Assimilate was literally the only thing that kept Nyx from being a less efficient radial disarm Loki. In a PvE focused player vs horde game like Warframe it's far more important that the abilities feel interesting and enjoyable to use than any other consideration. This "fix" was not needed and is in fact detrimental to the game.

[MopUpCrewman]

Guess my dream of defensive CC aside from Frost is gone. Back to just pure CC and popping Absorb instantly for a quick stun, I guess.

On another note, can we stop "fixing" things that are not broken and focus on things like, I don't know, Mirage/Simulor/Telos Boltace?

Edited March 13, 2017 by MopUpCrewman

[nanicow]

6 hours ago, Momaw said:

Bad points that have been raised:

"Nyx is a one-button frame now!" Nope. Mind controlling a healer to give your team 90% damage resist, or grabbing a heavy eximus to tank for you, is a seriously game-changing move. Psychic bolts is the weakest of her abilities admittedly.

i agree with most of your points, but not this one..

mind control would be way more useful if the stupid AI was fixed.

if they are willing to keep this changes to assimilate, they should AT LEAST fix the AI from mind control.

this video explain a bunch of bugs that it has, and was never fixed:

 

[Gamma745]

Maybe it's time we hear some statement from DE, on what is it they had in mind for Absorb in particular. Was it always meant to be a shield? Or does DE want it to be a nuke?

 

If it's meant to be a nuke, then perhaps a tweak or increase in its damage is in order. Right now, the damage on Absorb is very much not desired most of the time, since there are other non-ultimate abilities that deal more damage (Radial Javelin, Anti-matter Drop, Landslide) for less energy cost, and perhaps with more range too. Maybe more evaluation is needed here.

 

If it is meant to be a shield, then how about dropping the damage absorption altogether? Even from the normal Absorb, not just with Assimilate.

 

That's my little thought on this matter. DE, I sure hope you will make the right decision this time and able to give a good explanation.

[Cyberhazard]

Nyx was one, if not, my favourite frame since I started playing Warframe. She was completely underpowered compared to all the other frames we have around, with he Assimilate augment, I was so happy, not only that I'm able to move and shoot under the bubble, but I get rid of all the trolls this game contain, I wouldn't have to die till I can't revive in every game because of these garbage players that have no respect for others.

Nyx is one of the least played frame in the game, she had some popularity, but waaaaay far from the Novas, Embers, etc.  

Her chaos ability is cool, but a lot of frames with better kit does better.   Vauban,  Nova, Banshee, even Volt CC ult.   Their powers may not work exactly the same, but in the end, they outclass Nyx CC

Mind Control is a signature move from her mental abilities, but nothing to go on a hype train when we the the AI of the mind controlled units

The Bolts are,  well, useless what so ever. even Nekros would do more damage with desecrate if you know what I mean,  and for the CC ? Well, her Chaos already "fit" this niche.

Her ultimate is good looking,  but not usefull at all, registering friendly fire totaly ruin the purpose of the ultimate, which is , storing ENEMY fire,   friendly fire is litteraly shooting in the back of the person trying to save you, Assimilate fixed that issue and gave me a sort of breath of fresh air,  without frustration, without rage and throwing my laptop over the walls because of the ######## players.  I enjoyed that and it seemed completely normal on Nyx,

DE, I like your game, I paid for your game, I spend over 4500 hours on it, laughing, raging , getting bored, enjoying the missions, quests, items.  But doing that to Nyx, which I may remember you, was at first the female variant of your poster boy,  sharing some similarities to your popular anti-hero/vilain, Nadia Sudek, from Dark Sectors, You kinda throw away some opportunities.

If you're going to go like that for a CC/defensive frame,  I would even suggest a total rework of the frame more in lines with your Dark Sector Character than letting her in pre-assimilate  / post-assimilate fix   state.

Nova Speed at first was a bug, turned into a feature because players liked it.  

Give us the same thing on assimilate, Even the Vanilla ult if possible. 

But letting her like that, is turning an underused frame into a even less used frame than it was before.

She needs to be reverted to be more than a mastery fodder.  OR  she need a total rework, more offensive maybe ?

Edited March 13, 2017 by Cyberhazard

[Fleetwing]

Weighing in to add my opinion that the change should be reversed; it just seems like poor form to ship out an ability with a bug and then let the bug play out for weeks or months before changing it. While it might have been unintended, the customers who have invested time and/or money into their accounts to incorporate the mod viewed it as a feature, not a bug. 

Bug fixes on new content have a certain window of acceptability. After the window closes, community backlash will be significantly more dramatic, proportional to the popularity of the bug. 

I don't main Nyx, don't play Nyx (except in the occasional high-damage Sortie mobile defense, where Assimilate/Absorb make for great point defense). My primary interest in Nyx is based in fashionframe (that nyx prime helmet tho). But I think it's poor form to change a relatively small, unimportant part of the game months after it has become an established part of the community meta. Seems a little bit like that meme of a robot pounding a "no fun allowed" sign into the ground--which is not really a great vibe for a video game hotfix. 

Not to mention this is such a ridiculously specific thing to have to argue about. It's one mod. Even I'm getting tired of seeing these responses. Let's just put it back the way it was so we can all go back to farming helios prime  having fun.  

[Kinjeto]

On 10/03/2017 at 9:59 AM, Treebiter said:

So, for anyone who doesn't play Nyx or hasn't seen the 19.13.0 patch notes, Nyx's Assimilate augment has been 'fixed' so that it absorbs friendly fire like Absorb does.

Fine on paper. However...

For me, and a lot of other Nyx players I've talked to, Assimilate's primary purpose is to tank. It's a shield. It allows Nyx to soak up a lot of damage, and has some cool synergies with self-damage weapons, guardian derision and Ack & Brunt's electromagnetic shielding. It's a powerful abilitiy, and the only thing other than Chaos that makes Nyx stand out. In fact, without Assimilate, Nyx degenerates into a one-trick pony.

The problem with this fix is that it massively hobbles Assimilate to the point of near-uselessness in many situations. For one, it's very easy to pop the assimilate bubble by accident, but in addition, it's also possible to for another player to troll a Nyx by actively removing their assimilate bubble by firing upon it. Not only does this remove their main form of defence, it also leaves them without any energy - in short, dead.

If any one from DE reads this, I implore you to rethink this decision. One of the nice things about augment abilities is how they alter the base ability. Leave Absorb as the damage soaking mini-nuke, and return Assimilate to it's rightful place as a defensive shield. As someone who mains Nyx, if I wanted to deal a crap-ton of direct damage to my enemies, I'd use a different frame.

I'd be interested to hear other people's thought on this, especially fellow Nyx players.

Thanks for reading.

It's terrible design isn't it? Why did Assimilate need to be changed to begin with? It seems like the whole change is a nerf by Glen or someone on the design team. The whole change is terribly counter-productive and only encourages people to shoot at Nyx. I'd say just revert the Assimilate mod back to how it was before. Where people couldn't fire at the Absorb when you had the Assimilate mod on.

1. It was doing the job.
1a. It was taking up a mod slot out of the Nyx build so it was justified to be used.
2. It changed the way people played Nyx.

I've been noticing quite a lot of these stupid changes lately. There was the GAS re-work proposal that's been in the game for 2 @(*()$ YEARS and now some idiot has proposed changing gas. When it's fine.

Yeah also the worst part is that a lot of the people who don't know how Nyx works will instantly go for the Assimilate Augment. It's like the "HAI GAIZ IM GONNA PUT GAS ON EVERYTHING." syndrome. When gas (or toxin) is really effective against Corpus and Grineer units (some) or with the Stealth multiplier or melee deal.

I believe you could even put the rolling back in with the Nyx Assimilate augment. This was actually a good addition and an option to have when you had the Assimilate augment active. (i.e: See it wasn't bad, it was a good idea to enable rolling while channeling Assimilate to get the roll damage reduction on damage to transfer over the to energy.) thusly changing up Nyx's play-style entirely.

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by Kinjeto

[lihimsidhe]

Hi everyone!  So many things I want to say about Warframe's overall balance but I want to stay on point: Nyx's Assimilate. Make no mistake, it is a nerf.  It's a nerf because of 3 reasons:

1. Assimilate has a damage absorb limit.
2. The damage done by player's modded out weapons can cause Nyx to quickly hit that limit.
3. Warframe players, in general, are not pursuing fun in game by being mindful of the setups and considerations of other players.

Whenever DE introduces a nerf like this, I compare it to the baseline most OP set up in the game: a max range Irradating Disarm Loki + Zenurik.  I can be invisible, disarming every non Infested faction that makes them less powerful than the Infested by an order of magnitude, attacking with near impunity, while gaining 4 energy a second.  It is not the flashiest build in the game but damn if it isn't effective and just straight up makes every experience trivial.

If DE is fine with Loki's absolutely OP setup, than anything less powerful than that shouldn't be touched.  DE has set the power level bar.  And it's fairly high and ridiculous. As someone mentioned on /r/Warframe nerfing Nyx's Assimilate like this makes as much sense as Nekros's Shadows of the Dead or Frost's Snowglobe able to be affected by friendly fire. Why in the world would DE do that?  Especially with so many more OP builds having been around for years? 

If we want to compare Nyx's Assimilate to something more comparable than we don't have to look any further than Equinox's Maim.  Maim despite being able to store an unlimited amount of damage has not caused Warframe's meta to become a highly derivative experience where it's Equinox's everywhere.  Even with Maim's being able to feed other Maims to keep a damage chain going.  On the same token, pre nerf Assimilate Nyx did not shift Warfrrame's meta towards a derivative experience.

As a student of digital and game design, I really struggle to understand these random nerfs DE issues out... especially being a developer that's very in touch with its fanbase.  Where is the data showing that just too many players were abusing Assiimilate Nyx while Loki, Simular Mirage, and the gaggle of other OP builds run around untouched?  If she became a staple of Kuva Farming... let me tell you... the invincible states of the Kuva Gaurdians and the gimmicky way in which we render them vulnerable is the issue with Kuva Farming... not Assimilate Nyx.

Personally my fondness for Assimilate wore off when excited over its late game possibilities, took it into an Axi Mot survival.  Found out quickly that at about an hour in, Assimilate can only take 1 or 2 shots before Nyx is stripped of all energy, caught in her 'Absorb Release' animation, about to get 1 shotted by a Corpus Tech.

My suggestion is to remove the damage cap from Nyx's absorb all together but cap the amount of damage that can be stored per second (and thus caps the max energy drain).  That will give Nyx an ability that is sorely needed in late game, an ability with scaling, and allows Nyx players to be able to count on their Assimilate lasting around x amount of time regardless of what amounts of damage are flying around.

Either that or start nerfing truly OP builds into the ground instead of targeting builds that are barely off the ground before a nerf knocks them right back into the dirt.

[MikuBlade]

Pls fix Nyx fix. Because she was the only frame I've enjoyed to play with. Seriously thought, I could've whined about spamulor, WoF or Cheese Master Race but I don't give a darn about those. But as a Nyx main I mostly care about my Nyx.

1. 'If it's not broke, don't fix it' argument

If you fix things you gotta ask yourself, will it help? You might argue that base ult did work the other way around, but isn't it the main purpose of augment? Adding some benefits (ability to walk and NOT drain friendly fire) in return of some downsides (walking speed, inability to jump, smaller absorb radius etc.). By making Assimilate absorb friendly/troll fire is just making it highly inconsistent.  Last thing i wanna deal with in such a fast-paced-hoard-killing 3PS is to deal with inconsistency. I personally don't want to praise RNGesus every time I join pug. As if we didn't have Energy Leech/Parasitic Eximi pain to deal with already. 

2. Time argument

I remember playing Nyx before I've got my hands on Assimilate. Chaos build was a necessity. Then you've added Augments and Nyx certainly got some more variety in a sense. More viable for teamplay for sure. Desecrate Necros build was a necessity too back in a day. But then you allowed Necromains to tank more with right setup which made Edgelord more versatile. Ask yourself if it was so broken why you just fixed it? Because it wasn't. And people who actually used it are now forced back to Chaos strat

3. Power strength argument

Psychic Bolts (2) and Absorb (4) are two Nyx powers which have benefited from power strength. If you even remonely know Nyx, you know exactly how useful Psychic Bolts ability is. With Assimilate augment noone really cared about damage absorbtion. Knockdown after explosion is nice but that's about it. Because Chaos benefits by increased range, duration and pre "fixed" Assimilate benefitting by duration and power efficiency (with optional range) it's only natural that people would build in favour of those. 40% power strength club.

4. Usage argument

Nyx, even before Assimilate fix was severely underused warframe. I'm running into some sort of Ember/Loki/Nova in 60-80% of pug missions. And when I eventually ran into Nyx in my group, people most likely just ranking her for mastery. With Assimilate fix it would probably just deter some people that acually enjoyed that mechanic from using Nyx.

5. Armor argument

Now this one is debateble to some degree, but there is no denying that Nyx is one hell of a squishy frame. So much so she shares exact same stats with Banshee meme. And with recent Banshee prime recieving 65 armor, 50 Nyx Prime armor is second to last armor amount for Primes after Trinity Prime. And where Trinity player can heal himself and also get some tasty overshields, Nyx player can't. All Nyx player left when some Nova or Simurage pop that Assimilate bubble is to pray RNGesus for Medi-Ray, eat some health pizza, or die. Pre fix Assimilate definately helped in that regard.

6. Soloframe argument

Well, pretty self-explanatory.

TL;DR Nyx wasn't OP to begin with and this fix(nerf) made her worse. DE, Please unfix.

So all in all, I wish my fellow Nyx mains rapid unfix in the nearest future. Sorry for this probably being very biased, but then again what did you expect from Nyx fanboy?

Nyx is Love, Nyx is Life.

[OmniXVII]

 

[Tunaghost]

13 minutes ago, OmniXVII said:

 

Lol yea pretty much.... wait till you play with someone who has telos boltace.

there goes your mana in like 0.2 seconds...

[TaylorsContraction]

The thing is,  most players that hit nyx absorb /assimilate bubble aren't even trolling  90 percent of the time.  It just happens in the high paced combat of the game.  Given that DE hasn't reverted this already leaves me to fear that nothing further is going to change.  Assimilate has such a short range that at this point we may as well not be using it.  Going back to the roots of popping absorb over fallen allies or defense targets as a temporary shield.  Yet another gg no re.

[AzoreanEve]

What if they make the Assimilate augment just remove dmg output while still having the "absorb enemy dmg energy drain" thing going?

Like, you can tank. Not forever against enemies with fairly decent dmg output, but for quite a while.

You can still barely move.

Your allies cannot interact with your bubble, they can't shoot through it but also cannot shoot into it to buff the dmg absorbed.

When you uncast assimilate there's just the small stun around you but the enemies won't take any dmg.

Would this be balanced enough in DE's eyes??

[Treebiter]

2 minutes ago, TaylorsContraction said:

The thing is,  most players that hit nyx absorb /assimilate bubble aren't even trolling  90 percent of the time.  It just happens in the high paced combat of the game.  Given that DE hasn't reverted this already leaves me to fear that nothing further is going to change.  Assimilate has such a short range that at this point we may as well not be using it.  Going back to the roots of popping absorb over fallen allies or defense targets as a temporary shield.  Yet another gg no re.

Keep in mind it's been the weekend and now there's an event going on. Rebecca's already said she's looking into it and we're waiting for a follow-up.

It's not all doom and gloom quite yet.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Treebiter

[malekas]

There doesn't need to be any change to the augment. Let's not allow DE to severely cripple it, and then "fix" it to something worse than it was originally. This just needs to be undone and the augment put back to what it was before. This augment was the only thing that made Nix stand out from an Irradiating Disarm Loki, it was her only thing.

 

No other changes, no compromise, no middle of the road, just put it back.

[DatDarkOne]

10 hours ago, Momaw said:

"Our energy is too precious to have it wasted" Disingenuous. Every tryhard team has an vampire Trinity on it, and even if you're being casual, it takes you only a few seconds to duck out of combat and eat some pizza to get back your hundreds of thousands of EHP.  If the energy economy were not so easy to break I might have more sympathy for this argument.

I can agree with all of your other statements except this one.  Having tested this previously and doing exactly as you mentioned about energy pizzas, I can say that it's still a waste of energy.  Even using Energy Pizzas, my energy while using Assimulate with just a Spore Saryn was completely being drained in seconds.  This was not counting any other damage form other sources or Tenno. 

As I said earlier, I agree with all of your other points.  This one was just made without a full understanding of just how bad the energy drain is. 

[[DE]Momaw]

10 minutes ago, DatDarkOne said:

I can agree with all of your other statements except this one.  Having tested this previously and doing exactly as you mentioned about energy pizzas, I can say that it's still a waste of energy.  Even using Energy Pizzas, my energy while using Assimulate with just a Spore Saryn was completely being drained in seconds.  This was not counting any other damage form other sources or Tenno. 

As I said earlier, I agree with all of your other points.  This one was just made without a full understanding of just how bad the energy drain is. 

The post I read went something like, "it takes a lot of time and effort to gain full energy". Which isn't true in most cases.

[DatDarkOne]

4 minutes ago, Momaw said:

The post I read went something like, "it takes a lot of time and effort to gain full energy". Which isn't true in most cases.

Until this specific issue came up, I would have completely agreed with your statement.  The only other time besides Nyx's is Energy Drain Nightmare missions where I would consider using energy pizzas/energy restoration as a waste.

Someone even posted a video of one Rhino Stomp completely wiping out Nyx's energy. That's a huge waste energy with not one benefit.

So, I do understand what you're saying. It's just that in this specific case it really is more effort to regain full energy and keep it while planning to use the skill. Which is really sad.

[Gwenwed]

It's been ages since I played Nyx and this surely won't help.

And honestly, I'm pretty sure it's not even from trolling but just by accident that people are shooting at their squadmate Nyx. I'm sure I've blown many Nyxes energy with AMD, not knowing they were in range or just because they came close by.

Please recheck the ability mechanics or the augment.

[Mu_Gera]

Besides damage type and base range, the energy add-on is probably the worst deal breaker, so I only use it to revive others and protect myself but now that's sabotaged by other teammates along with enemy scaling (no surprise there though).

 

 

[BitterAurora]

Nyx is my main frame and assimilate was my main build because it allowed me to help my team out more then just sitting AFK. This "FIX" is a massive nerf and is disrespectful to us players who love Nyx and use her correctly. And the fact that the forum moderators keep Erasing the multiple Nyx threads makes me suspiscious that they want to sweep this under the rug like they DIDNT just royally ruin Nyx.

Edited March 13, 2017 by Equinaught