Dresden_ Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Saw some chatter about the Supra Vandal coming out when the new Tribute rifle drops. I used to get excited about these as Prisma/Vandal/Wraith weapons have always been superior to their counterparts. But then they released the catastrophe that is the Ignis Wraith (que the contrarians), and now my faith has wavered. So I appeal to DE, please don't make another useless entry into the arsenal. That is all. Have a good day. Edited March 16, 2017 by Dresden_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dahx11 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 How is the Ignis Wraith bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xirka Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) Ignis wealth is a good weapon , I do not know what you mean calling it bad. It can easily 100% status in a good sized arc. Edited March 16, 2017 by Xirka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BansheePrime Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Supra Vandal? I love you for bringing me this wonderful information... but the Ignis Wraith is not bad and most certainly not worse then the Ignis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIREEK Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) The ignis wraith was supposed to have twice as much firerate, meaning it would have almost 2 times the dps and that would be a bit out of whack, still the current ignis wraith seems to have better performance and more viable build options for you to use, so i can't really agree with what you said. As usual, weapon or warframe quality depends on the player itself, nothing else can be added. Edited March 16, 2017 by KIREEK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden_ Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Dresden_ said: que the contrarians ...and it begins. The Ignis Wraith is 'bad' (notice the quotes?) because it's hardly an improvement to the original. Compared to the other variant weapons, the Ignis Wraith is easily the worst 'upgrade'. And that's not even going into the fiasco about obtaining the weapon in the first place. But I know you guys know this without me having to explain it to you, so I'll let you argue inanely about it for another 3 pages. Edited March 16, 2017 by Dresden_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jfalz Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, Dresden_ said: ...and it begins. Explain to us what makes it a catastrophe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerishedFraud Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The Ignis Wraith has slightly less damage. While it is overall much, much better, this pisses people off. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IX-44 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Doesn't really make sense to compare upgrades to one gun to upgrades to others, IMHO. Every gun works differently, they get different upgrades. Ignis Wraith's upgrades make it fantastic and it's still within the bounds of other upgrade-variant weaponry. 2 points less base damage for more than double the crit and a tasty buff to status, not to mention better overall ammo capacities and people call the Ignis Wraith 'bad'? SMH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotallyLagging Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 what a great way to start a thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 10 minutes ago, Dresden_ said: ...and it begins. The Ignis Wraith is 'bad' (notice the quotes?) because it's hardly an improvement to the original. Compared to the other variant weapons, the Ignis Wraith is easily the worst 'upgrade'. And that's not even going into the fiasco about obtaining the weapon in the first place. But I know you guys know this without me having to explain it to you, so I'll let you argue inanely about it for another 3 pages. karak wraith wasn't exactly ground breaking variant and nobody complained why is ignis wraith so much hated? :'l Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) I don't see what the problem with Ignis Wraith is. It's *almost a straight upgrade to the Ignis (no, a 7% damage penalty does not outweigh its benefits and never will), and the Ignis is already a pretty damn good weapon. Edited March 16, 2017 by SortaRandom Not exactly a straight upgrade; minimum damage per tick is very slightly lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogaMC1995 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 1 minute ago, SortaRandom said: I don't see what the problem with Ignis Wraith is. It's a straight upgrade to the Ignis (no, a 7% damage penalty does not outweigh its benefits and never will), and the Ignis is already a pretty damn good weapon. > straight upgrade > 7% damage penalty Choose one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, LogaMC1995 said: > straight upgrade > 7% damage penalty Choose one. 50 more mag capacity, 5% status buff (huuuuuuuuuuge if you take use of dual status mods) waaaay better crit chance and actually crit viable (normal ain't) and nobody can make fart clouds with it straight upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, LogaMC1995 said: > straight upgrade > 7% damage penalty Choose one. Not that I've done the math or anything, but I'm sure the bonus to crit and Status will provide enough damage to outweigh the 7% penalty even at base. As an extreme example: If you have a shotgun, and a new version of the shotgun is released with "-50% damage but +999999% multishot" as its stats, then it is for all intents and purposes a straight upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcainyx Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 14 minutes ago, Dresden_ said: The Ignis Wraith is 'bad'...because it's hardly an improvement to the original... What would make it 'good' to you? Can you add numbers of some sort? 14 minutes ago, Dresden_ said: ...But I know you guys know this without me having to explain it to you, so I'll let you argue inanely about it for another 3 pages. Making assumptions about what other people know while insulting anyone that could respond to your post might not be the best way to encourage constructive responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xXx_mtv_xXx Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 The Ignis Wraith is CRIT VIABLE and with a crit chance + damage riven it's an absolute BEAST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LogaMC1995 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 2 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said: 50 more mag capacity, 5% status buff (huuuuuuuuuuge if you take use of dual status mods) waaaay better crit chance and actually crit viable (normal ain't) and nobody can make fart clouds with it straight upgrade 2 minutes ago, SortaRandom said: Not that I've done the math or anything, but I'm sure the bonus to crit and Status will provide enough damage to outweigh the 7% penalty even at base. As an extreme example: If you have a shotgun, and a new version of the shotgun is released with "-50% damage but +999999% multishot" as its stats, then it is for all intents and purposes a straight upgrade. A straight upgrade means an upgrade to an existing object (in this case, Ignis) without any downsides. Example of straight upgrade weapons: Braton Prime(damage, status), Detron Mara(recoil, mag size), Furax Wraith(crit, channeling). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden_ Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 Oh brother, let's be real, kids. It's a 7% increase to crit chance, and a 5% increase to status chance. That's barely an improvement. The decrease to Heat damage is so negligible, I don't even consider it. And the magazine size has never been an obstacle for this weapon to begin with. Compare that to, say, the Dera... "Twice the CRIT!", 33% more Crit damage, 33% bigger magazine size, 50% higher status chance, and ~50% more base damage. THAT'S something to celebrate. It took a lackluster weapon and made it usable. The ignis has never been lackluster, and perhaps therein lies the problem. Buffing it too much could make it OP, which is why we ended up with an almost pointless addition to our arsenals. The Supra is a good weapon, and now we're possibly facing the exact same scenario. I don't want to see another mismanaged, ill-conceived grindfest for what ultimately amounts to another pointless addition to the arsenal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shut Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) On 3/16/2017 at 10:51 AM, LogaMC1995 said: A straight upgrade means an upgrade to an existing object (in this case, Ignis) without any downsides. Example of straight upgrade weapons: Braton Prime(damage, status), Detron Mara(recoil, mag size), Furax Wraith(crit, channeling). I know that. What I'm saying is that if the extra crit and status provide more than a ~7% damage boost, then the Ignis Wraith does not have "deals less damage than the Ignis" as a downside. Edited March 17, 2017 by SortaRandom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sloan441 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said: karak wraith wasn't exactly ground breaking variant and nobody complained why is ignis wraith so much hated? :'l The Karak Wraith was an obvious improvement over the Karak. This gun doesn't do much past raw damage and the improved version just did more raw damage and was actually status viable. Obvious. The Ignis Wraith is an improvement over the Ignis, but the improvement is more subtle and that is lost on most people, apparently. It's a crit weapon and has to be treated as such--kinda like the Prisma Gorgon. We saw a similar level of misplaced angst over the Soma Prime when it appeared because it was 'only' 20% better than the base Soma in base damage. You know, because 35k+dps weapons are bad--and the biggest improvements were in crit damage which isn't readily apparent so it was lost on most people. There's a trend here. Supra Vandal? Well, groovy. I'm down. I'm not sure what to expect, but it'll be better than the Supra in some way and that gun already is pretty effective in ideal circumstances. I'd be willing to bet it won't be a huge obvious increase in damage, so prepare for more angst, rending of garments, and tearing of hair because reasons. Edited March 16, 2017 by Sloan441 Clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)EternalDrk Mako Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 supra vandal was something discussed in 2014 in some threads then but havent seen any news of it dropping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemmo67 Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 4 minutes ago, Sloan441 said: The Karak Wraith was an obvious improvement over the Karak. This gun doesn't do much past raw damage and the improved version just did more raw damage and was actually status viable. Obvious. take both with same mods to excact same sortie. both do similiarly well and the buff off wraith is on similiar lvl as ignis. noticeble but not exactly ground breaking c.c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dresden_ Posted March 16, 2017 Author Share Posted March 16, 2017 Just now, (Xbox One)EternalDrk Mako said: supra vandal was something discussed in 2014 in some threads then but havent seen any news of it dropping No news, but there are data placeholders in the 19.13.1 hotfix patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)Quo_Tee Posted March 16, 2017 Share Posted March 16, 2017 My only wishes for the supra vandal is that it gets a small increase to damage, fire rate, magazine capacity and maximum ammo. A status chance increase would also be nice, but the entropy burst augment mod is good enough if you want to turn the Supra into a status machine. Just please don't pull a 'Dera Vandal' on us and increase its pitiful crit chance and crit multiplier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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