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Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


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Why do people care what OTHER people are using? I would understand if it was PVP. If you're so hung up on it, play solo.  Doesnt matter to me. Like i already said, Im gone. Divorce is final. Look what happened to Destiny, they nerfed everything, because too many people used this gun or that, no one plays it anymore. You opened Pandora's Nerf box. Next will be your other favorite weapon, then the next , and your rivens, heres a forma. 

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For everyone reacting to Simulor's change and Tonkor's change

Simulor Change

When the weapon was first introduced, it made mini vortexes. I believe the intention was: Shoot area to bring enemies towards vortexes then detonate when they get into range. That's what i thought of Simulor only to find out the stacking was doing the damage and killing enemies which was kinda counter-intuitive of the weapon's theme if the manual detonation did barely anything and only the stacks did. Overall the change is indeed nice as you have to play smarter in shooting in a direction. If it could be compensated, would this qualify Simulor as a Launcher and the ability to use firestorm as well?

Tonkor Change

I was wondering when that was gonna be addressed. Overall the nerf of now being able to do self-damage is fine, all launchers are like that. Ogris does it, Penta Does it, Throwing Explosives do it to; the idea is to play smarter and not blow yourself up over it.The grenades detonate sooner so that's more reliable than before, in all likeliness, adhesive explosives got a roommate and his name is Tonkor. This is nothing to fret over, If you want to maim something DE could've easily nerfed its base damage, reload speed, flight speed, etc. the only stat change was to its critical chance which is 25, you cant go over 100% unless your riven allows it but its not too bad of a nerf.

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2 hours ago, Deatherage_ said:

but they aren't being destroyed, sorry to ruin your day but raw damage synoid simulor will still be a good weapon and nezhas will still use the telos boltace 

 

the Simulors focus is going away from orb stacking and being moved to the explosion caused when they collide/disappear, meaning mirages will be encouraged to shoot two or 3 shots and then alt fire key to make them poof instead of mindless spam. 

 

the telos boltace will still be the best sliding weapon, it doesn't matter if DE slows down the AoE it still is a fantastic weapon thanks to that one acoylte mod. 

 

so saying those weapons are dying is an overexageration case and point

I'm looking at a 50% damage reduction on simulor... how do you figure that's not destroyed.

Now: Fire ball 1, then fire ball 2, wait for them to merge then fire ball 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8... getting damage.

That damage is now reduced a whopping 80%.

New Mechanic:  Fire ball 1, then fire ball 2, wait for them to merge, fire ball 3 (for almost no daamge), Explode for mornal damge with the alt key.

Now set that all up again to get the one blast of damage.

This is a massive DPS nerf unless i'm not understanding the new damage mechanics. It looks to me that out of a single clip of the simulor which is what 11 balls? you are getting old levels of damage 3.66 times, plus 1/5 damage 6 times (for a total of 4.16 times) as opposed to 9 times in the past give or take.

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3 hours ago, fibrizz0 said:

I have a Tonkor, with formas and catalyst. And I understand the nerf, is really deserved.

What bothers me is not losing the formas or the catalyst, but the Greater Focus Lens I installed into it, because is the only one I got.

I am not at full end-game like, maybe, most of you, so i don't have much stuff.

Should I wait to the full balance pass before forma any other weapon? I don't wanna think about investing in forma a secondary or melee weapon and

get hammered again. Any advice?

 

P. D: sorry about my English, is not my native language.

I'd recommend a Scindo Prime or atterax. Blood rush and the newer combo counter mod and get a berserker. Crit builds are really good and with the atterax a weeping wounds for the red crit head shot slash procs. Blood rush is from a lua spy, combo counter mod is a nightmare mod, berserker comes from corrupted ancients I believe, and if you need a weeping wounds, message me in game one day, I've got over 20 of them from the last event we could get it in. 

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RIP Telos Boltace.

They should give a potato back for everyone who used it on Telos Boltace as well as the formas. Simulor and Tonkor are still usable at least after the changes.

Might have to make a Panthera again once the change is live. That seems fun.

Edited by ChaosSabre
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Just now, ChaosSabre said:

RIP Telos Boltace.

They should give a potato back for everyone who used it on Telos Boltace as well. Simulor and Tonkor are still usable at least after the changes.

Might have to make a Panthera again once the change is live. That seems fun.

Simulor is going to be doing nothing damage for the time it takes to set up. Yes they buffed the explosion and are promoting it. Which is good and all. But they nerfed the damage into the ground of what made it worth using and made its range non existant

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37 minutes ago, Dailus said:

One of the wisest toughs i have read since this threat started... i'm with you! i don't want to keep spending formas neither time or effort to making outstanding build just to get nerf butchered cause some lazy whiners cannot work hard to get those builds and don't like to be more than 10 minutes on each mission.

Slowly DE is killing the greatest thing of this game imho... The greatest achieve of the tennos are to deal with the strongest things that will 1 hit you and kill them before they kill you. Space ninjas? keep the good gear and make better things not butcher the already GREAT ones... Or ppl will start feeling that is playing some CoD game with some fancy space visuals and guess what? they will go back straigth for a plain all the same standard shooter game cause "BALANCE".

+1

Not sure if DE is following whiners or discovered the nerf-buff money machine ;)

 

9 minutes ago, Nyrakav said:

No, the Simulor is one of the most over used weapons. 

Yep. Saw no simulor after 15 public missions today. Same yesterday. You need to go very high level to see those so called cheated weapons (where the dps is required)

 

2 minutes ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

Why do people care what OTHER people are using? I would understand if it was PVP. If you're so hung up on it, play solo.  Doesnt matter to me. Like i already said, Im gone. Divorce is final. Look what happened to Destiny, they nerfed everything, because too many people used this gun or that, no one plays it anymore. You opened Pandora's Nerf box. Next will be your other favorite weapon, then the next , and your rivens, heres a forma. 

whiners =)

Some are too lazy to farm for the weapon, others just don't like them so they ask for nerf.

 

Just wait for the next wave of "please nerf threads" What now ? vaykor hek, galatine prime and banshee ?

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Just now, nickl3188 said:

Simulor is going to be doing nothing damage for the time it takes to set up. Yes they buffed the explosion and are promoting it. Which is good and all. But they nerfed the damage into the ground of what made it worth using and made its range non existant

I never use it besides on Mirage anyway. And it's just run and spam. Now it'll just be a status weapon and not kill everything everywhere.

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Just now, ChaosSabre said:

I never use it besides on Mirage anyway. And it's just run and spam. Now it'll just be a status weapon and not kill everything everywhere.

That's the thing. It was good even without mirage. Now it's not worth the standing to get unless you want the mastery. It's literally going to be a dead meme weapon

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7 minutes ago, nickl3188 said:

I'd recommend a Scindo Prime or atterax. Blood rush and the newer combo counter mod and get a berserker. Crit builds are really good and with the atterax a weeping wounds for the red crit head shot slash procs. Blood rush is from a lua spy, combo counter mod is a nightmare mod, berserker comes from corrupted ancients I believe, and if you need a weeping wounds, message me in game one day, I've got over 20 of them from the last event we could get it in. 

I have a level 30 Atterax because I find the whips diferent and fun, so i use it vs Infested. But I saw a loot of people with it, way more people than with a Tonkor btw.

So, like I said, I'm afraid to catalyst/forma until the balance pass is done.

But for sure I'll follow your recomendation. Also I appreciate very much your kindness offering me the mods, but if they are available in game, I'd try to get them myself.

Thanks!

Edited by fibrizz0
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10 minutes ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

Why do people care what OTHER people are using? I would understand if it was PVP. If you're so hung up on it, play solo.  Doesnt matter to me. Like i already said, Im gone. Divorce is final. Look what happened to Destiny, they nerfed everything, because too many people used this gun or that, no one plays it anymore. You opened Pandora's Nerf box. Next will be your other favorite weapon, then the next , and your rivens, heres a forma. 

I completely agree on the nerfing some things do need a change, i will only agree with the self damage as all other launchers do this. 

I do not agree with changing how a weapon works this was done with the Synoid Gammacor and now the Simulor in both instances the fundamental way the weapon worked is changed. I also dont understand the Crit nerf on the tonkor its identity was of a crit launcher why change that? 

The nerfs DE give really seem like you have had your fun now enough of that and boom the weapon is buried with the nerf hammer. There never seems to be any middle ground. 

I really dont think that chaging a weapons identity or mechanic can be called balance, as really the quirks that make the weapon should be kept the balance should be done with damage numbers alone in my opinion. 

The rivens will be the biggest low blow to come out of this though. 

 

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4 minutes ago, fibrizz0 said:

I have a level 30 Atterax because I find the whips diferent and fun, so i use it vs Infested. But I saw a loot of people with it, way more people than with a Tonkor btw.

So, like I said, I'm afraid to catalyst/forma until the balance pass is done.

But for sure I'll follow your recomendation. Also I appreciate very much your kindness offering me the mods, but if they are available in game, I'd try to get them myself.

Thanks!

You need to use public sources for the builds. Top build for atterax: http://warframe-builder.com/Melee_Weapons/Builder/Atterax/t_30_222000004_226-7-5-239-6-5-313-8-3-360-4-5-488-1-10-625-3-5-637-2-10-640-5-5-733-0-10_733-7-488-7-637-7-625-9-360-11-640-7-239-9-226-9-313-10/en/4-0-65/108768/0

But it has Maiming strike (300+pl) and Buzz Kill (150+pl) on it, like the any good high lvl melee build.

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2 minutes ago, Sashmaul said:

I also dont understand the Crit nerf on the tonkor its identity was of a crit launcher why change that? 

it's still the only crit launcher that comes to mind, there are not any other launchers that does this besides an off build Torid

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28 minutes ago, SilverWF said:

-snip-

Well I for one approve that lesser weapons get some touches, what you find like a waste of time, I find as experimentation (mr 22 here that is bored of the same weapons over and over) If you see the same tigris, gallatine combo overyday. Heck I made endgame viable sobek and strum wraith. And used strung w to get 1,364 (or so? cant check, maybe a bit less) from the pacifism defect event.

But I digress, everyone enjoys their game differently. But you cant expect people to be happy about DE taking variety out of our hands.

However I need to say this, if you payed closer attention to this community you could had noticed the cries for these nerfs was a long ago situation, you could had stopped it back then... but sadly it seems they made out their minds about it now. And if you tried, well, you fought a valiant war.

Edited by Nezha_Rose
Im one frame away from mr 23, so Im currently mr 22
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I do have a complaint, even though I understand the reasoning... Mostly, it's that there's not much information to go off of! So, it's hard to judge the exact impact.

But, doing some math on what I COULD showed that the buffs are generally going to be rather powerful. The one that caught my eye the most was Buzlok; it'll go from a mediocre "tooltip" DPS* of about 11k, (less than most weapons) up to just shy of 16k. That'd place it a bit shy of the likes of the Javlok or Opticor. Also, that's the stats for just the normal PRIMARY fire; since I dunno how the "50% increased" will stack (is it the base crit goes from 15->22.5? Does it just scale like a mini Point Strike? Does it add flat crit akin to Memeing Strike?) I can't quite be certain how that'd impact things, but at minimum, that could bump it to almost 18k, putting it into the relatively empty (rifle-wise) stretch between "Prisma Grakata" and "Soma Prime."

As far as the nerfs go, they're all pretty well called for... And might actually fall shy of accomplishing their jobs; maybe. Each deserves a better look on its own:

  • Simulor spam has definitely been a problem; the whole "Miragulor" build requires absolutely no real aiming skill, and it's just a "run by spamming in the general direction of enemies, and they all die." I'll have to test a bit more on the mechanics to figure how how it affects the ACTUAL damage output, but I suspect it'll not be changed that much... But will put an end to zero-effort fire-and-forget spam. It remains to be seen, but it MIGHT actually place this weapon precisely where it belongs, making it a perfect "bullseye" fix.
  • Telos Boltace has correctly been identified as a "strangling" effect on gameplay. However, I suspect the change to its Syndicate bonus won't hurt it THAT much; even the plain Boltace (which, at worst, it will still be) is still one of the top picks in the Maiming Strike/"spin to win" meta, thanks to having the highest PHYSICAL slide damage in the game at a whopping 510... And Tonfa (along with whips and staves) having really big spin AoEs to begin with. Usage may decline slightly, (as some more may switch to the higher-total damage Ohma) but the landscape probably won't change: this will require a bigger and deeper look at the whole spin-attack concept, so I'd consider this a "temporary bandaid" fix.
  • Tonkor's downfall has long been coming; contrary to many claims I see, the damage nerf isn't that severe; in terms of launcher "tooltip" DPS*, it will remain a heavyweight; it'll drop from ~30k to ~24k, which means it will downgrade from the #1 damage launcher to... #2, behind Zarr. This is the only nerf I expect to actually have a severe impact on player usage; the loss of its unique "no self-damage" effect means that Zarr will be pretty much superior in every way, especially since it DOES have an option to avoid self-damage; I'd predict Tonkor use to go down by at least 90%, and MOST of those people will switch to Zarr. So it DOES help with diversity a little... But doesn't fix the big problem in the long run, being issues with self-damage to begin with, especially given the habit of explosives to detonate on other players running in the way, or sometimes on seemingly thin air. (likely a netcode issue, like much of the game's problems) So I'd rate this a "first step" fix; better than a bandaid, but still needs to be followed up.

Interestingly, I notice all 3/4 weapons nerfed shared one major thing in common: a heavy emphasis on AoE. That kinda hints at one of the game's major balance issues, that of crowd-clear, in a game where most play revolves around dealing with dozens of enemies at once.

 

*"Tooltip" DPS basically refers to what would be one's "tooltip DPS" in a game that displays it, calculating single-target damage output, taking into account not just damage and attack speed, but other mathematically consistent factors like crits, magazine size, and reload time. As factors like hitting multiple enemies, enemy resistances, and procs (elemental/syndicate/acolyte/etc.) are context-sensitive, they can't always be accounted for. The figures accounted for the highest possible number with any build using an Orokin catalyst and as many forma as needed, using max-rank "basic," "nightmare," and "augment" mods, but not primed, corrupted, or riven mods.

 

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2 minutes ago, Nezha_Rose said:

And used strung w to get 1,364 (or so? cant check, maybe a bit less) from the pacifism defect event.

Especially if remember, that killing monsters at this event not only wasn't the goal, but also made the mission much harder. So what a point of your weapon there?

Maybe, you are able to record solo void survival video for 1 hour with some stuff like Panthera? ^^

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I made a post about caving in to the people begging for a simulor nerf, it was removed. Isn't complaining about other people's weapons of choice, still complaining? Therefore against forum rules? How does this argument even get heard by people? Its happened in a few games Ive played, people cry this isnt fair, that isnt fair, nerf bomb, then the hardcore players quit, then the game dies because theres no one left but casual little kids playing. Warframe is about to fall on its own sword. 

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2 minutes ago, (PS4)THEFREAK420 said:

I made a post about caving in to the people begging for a simulor nerf, it was removed. Isn't complaining about other people's weapons of choice, still complaining? Therefore against forum rules? How does this argument even get heard by people? Its happened in a few games Ive played, people cry this isnt fair, that isnt fair, nerf bomb, then the hardcore players quit, then the game dies because theres no one left but casual little kids playing. Warframe is about to fall on its own sword. 

You shouldn't leave. Look to the silver lining. You can make people crying "tonkor op" cry for "tonkor friendly fire killed me" ;D

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6 minutes ago, ACGIFT said:

 

  • Simulor spam has definitely been a problem; the whole "Miragulor" build requires absolutely no real aiming skill, and it's just a "run by spamming in the general direction of enemies, and they all die." I'll have to test a bit more on the mechanics to figure how how it affects the ACTUAL damage output, but I suspect it'll not be changed that much... But will put an end to zero-effort fire-and-forget spam. It remains to be seen, but it MIGHT actually place this weapon precisely where it belongs, making it a perfect "bullseye" fix.

 

It has? I almost never see it, ever. I haven't seen a simulor mirage in over a week, and if I see one once a week i'm surprised, and i play daily.

The simulor is dead, it's DPS is down 50%, maybe more. You forget you have to wait for three balls to combine before you can blow it up and get old damage numbers, that's a lot fo waiting to get your damage, which is reducing DPS... a LOT.

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1 minute ago, Shockwave- said:

It has? I almost never see it, ever. I haven't seen a simulor mirage in over a week, and if I see one once a week i'm surprised, and i play daily.

The simulor is dead, it's DPS is down 50%, maybe more. You forget you have to wait for three balls to combine before you can blow it up and get old damage numbers, that's a lot fo waiting to get your damage, which is reducing DPS... a LOT.

Flight speed, you can keep adding damage to the vortex and detonate it whenever you feel like it

with multishot you dont necessarily HAVE to wait, spawn 3 separate vortexes and detonate them all at once.

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1 minute ago, Shockwave- said:

It has? I almost never see it, ever. I haven't seen a simulor mirage in over a week, and if I see one once a week i'm surprised, and i play daily.

The simulor is dead, it's DPS is down 50%, maybe more. You forget you have to wait for three balls to combine before you can blow it up and get old damage numbers, that's a lot fo waiting to get your damage, which is reducing DPS... a LOT.

Thanks god, i'm not the only one not seeing this supposed simulor-mirage farm in the end !

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9 minutes ago, Dracario said:

Flight speed, you can keep adding damage to the vortex and detonate it whenever you feel like it

with multishot you dont necessarily HAVE to wait, spawn 3 separate vortexes and detonate them all at once.

And the all monsters will wait for you, sure, it can't be another!

Also, you are really didn't know how the multishot works with Simulors - it does not provides additional orb.

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16 minutes ago, SilverWF said:

Especially if remember, that killing monsters at this event not only wasn't the goal, but also made the mission much harder. So what a point of your weapon there?

Maybe, you are able to record solo void survival video for 1 hour with some stuff like Panthera? ^^

Bruh Naramooooon~~~ Take a maiming strike and slide the waves.

But Strung wraith reaches 100 status like the tigris, however with high reload and fire rate meant I could procc status more often. I used it once with radiation to disable aura in one shot, or blast to knock down a few, and its impact which staggers per shot. A friend of mine had a 4 forma tigris with an optimun build... he had huge issues killing past 180,  so it turned into a cc fest which my shotgun excelled at more. Top tier strats bois

As for recording, I only have potatolaptop. But I could screenshot the result screens on one run with a low tier yet manage able weapon... I cry it and sweat it, but its possible.

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