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Coming Soon: Weapon Balance Pass.


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7 minutes ago, ShogunGunshow said:

Could you just, like, nerf the damage on the Telos Boltace instead? A melee weapon with a cooldown seems like it'll just get thrown in the closet. Especially if that cooldown is just ragdolling enemies AWAY from my melee range.

Nope. People don't want anyone to have more fun than they are. 
Devs are supporting this idea.

 

I'm just as happy playing other games and not giving DE any more money. DE will take the side of the toxic players, and will continue ruining other peoples' fun. We saw this with the initial vaccume change, and while that was reverted and we thought they learned their lesson, this happens. The trend is already in motion, and it's going to F*** up the game real bad. I'll wait around a little bit longer, but if DE actually thinks this is okay then I'm jumping ship soon.

Edited by existingdark
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I like the attica and this change means I can boost it to be more deadly. Also I like these changes and can't wait to test it (what stuffs I have got).

 

Also can I suggest more weapons to the table if you guys took your time and did these changes?

Tiberon, Aklato, Lato, Mire, Pangolin sword (make it puncture based) (also needs a dual variant), the Orthos, Jaw sword, Obex, Ankyros, Kestrel, Glaive, Seer, Magistar, Fragor, Scindo, Braton, Braton prime (bit more impact), Burston, Latron, Torid (aoe buff), Dual Ether, Dual heat sword, Heat sword, Ether sword, Skana, Dual Skana, Kunai, Hikou. In the first round these but I think there are more weapon which needs some qol changes.

Also you should introduce for new players more mk1 series weapons for variety.

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52 minutes ago, ThaLegendaryCat said:

Did any one tell them to look at why Telos Boltace is broken? Cause they will find its cause Primed Pressure Point+Primed Reach+Maiming Strike and Condition Overload. Now you may ask why that's the reason for it being powerful its cause Condition Overload gives you more base dmg based of status procs and the waves slash procs made it so you had at least one status on every enemy that you did not one shot. And why nerf it into the ground instead give it the Bansheee Sound Quake treatment so they cant complain about the FX.

Its Warframe we must have some op weapons for normal since enemy scaling is broken like try to push the Telos Boltace into the lv200+ territory and you will tell me that the broken S#&$ is Spores Saryn and Atterax since Atterax is not even fun to see.
Saryn is just powerful cause she is Saryn and I think that Saryn´s current kit is not op since it needs a brain and Equipment to be pushed into lv200+ territory cause of how spores works. And as a note the fact that Saryn Spores stack forever is great like some can call it op but then we are losing Covert Lethality and Equinox since Maim Scales as well if you have a Fatal Teleport Ash using a Covert Lethality Dagger.

So why are you totaly killing Telos Boltace when the Endo needed to make it to the thing that everyone hates is at least 41k Endo and 2 Rare Mods and 2 Primed Mods. And isn't the Primed mods meant for Veterans or why do they have a trade tax that only Vets laugh at? Cause for me 1 million Credits is a joke but for me when I was MR 6 that was more than I ever had seen at any time in my possession but now as a MR 19 player with close to 2000h in game according to steam I don't think that's a huge amount like I do all the raids semi Daily so why cant you just make it so that the players like me can have some Powerhouse weapons as a reward for being around as long as me and collecting most of the content in the game?

This is not conclave so its not PVP we are talking about we are talking about PVE so can´t the Veterans or Long time players like me have some reward for being around for a long time and paying you guys in hard work and support with plat purchases? Its not like any other players are hurt that badly by this you have SOLO as an option or just get your self a squad in Recruiting chat or through other recruiting tools if you don't have enough friends for your needs.

PS I LOVE SARYN so please don't nerf her.

Well said.
Banshee Sound Quake should be nerfed as well, just because it is "spammy" and painful to the eye instead of lowering the FX, right?

Things will get OP over time, as a form of progression. Player rank up, level up their gears, put potato and formas on the gears, spend Endo to rank up mods, spend time and effort getting Ducats to get Primed mods. Most of those weapons/frames got to OP level when players invested effort and time to make it so, and nerfing them just because it seems unfair to others and devaluing/dishonouring those investment?

Take my experience in MapleStory long time ago as an example.
I like to play with my Night Lord character(level 150-160+) in one of my favorite map which have level 50+ enemies that deal only touch damage.
I build my character for high evasion and one hit kill attack, and usually doze off once in a while but wake up to find my character still alive.
So once in a while some players walk pass and see me slaughtering those enemies, and said that my character is OP and should be getting nerfed?

Personally, my Telos Boltace is not OP in my opinion, as I build it for breaking containers and speed boost with Dispatch Overdrive.
To be honest, kill stealing (KSing) in MMO is pretty common. At least, Warframe got Solo and Friends Only options, so I can take my time in Exterminate and play missions using my own playstyle without affecting others.
But certain nerfs and/or mechanic changes due to very specific build and playstyle would also affect those who are playing Solo, not affecting others or not even modding for that specific build to also be affected.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ta10S said:

DE

I think you decided to nerf them because many people have screamed the nerf and you accepted it. And you may think you will pacify the screaming people by this. I think it will never happen.
 They will find another target and start screaming again regardless the actual need.

Yet no proper resolution for people who have screamed for Hema issue to be fixed, after such a long time.
These nerfs/buffs doesn't really solve the root of the problems, only the symptoms temporarily...

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I'm happy with everything but the Tonkor change. Don't get me wrong, it needed the nerf it's getting... but self-damage as it stands isn't the solution to its problems. Self-damage as a whole needs to change.

Self-damage shouldn't be an instant-kill if your Kubrow runs in front of your shot or something. It should be capped, like Concealed Explosives is, so the punishment for not paying attention while aiming isn't so severe as to drive people away from using the weapon at all.

If, instead, one took 150-200 damage or so, it wouldn't be a simple slap on the wrist, but it also wouldn't be the instant-death AoE punishment that drives people away from using explosive weapons.

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19 minutes ago, Rolunde said:

Well if they did go so far as to give back lenses and "time" I suppose they'd also need to take back all the Focus and Affinity already earned using them too, right?!

Since that's the whole point of installing Lenses and spending Time farming... 

kek

We'll they can't give back time I think that's more of a hyperbole and a comment on time spent to multiple forma a weapon but they should refund lenses in some way. People pay money for those or lots of time thinking the game will be stable. I'm not a fan of nerfs because it makes people reluctant to spend real money to build up things they like. It's just spitting on paying players. I don't use the tonkor much but I know of players who payed so much Plat and are now screwed out of that money that supported DE. 

 

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Oh also, for everyone happy Mirage is dead, just remember, they buffed the Attica, and thunderbolt works on it. Self damage yes, but a manageable self damage and decent stats ;)

And theres still plenty of aoe weapons usable with Mirage, its just a matter of finding them. So don't worry, mirage is still here. And for those who seem to think shes only good for her 1, try using her 3 for the damage/detection buff (its based on lighting) and her 4 for blinding.

Edited by nickl3188
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Oof, gonna mess using Telos Boltace as a container destroyer...then again maybe I still can; just gotta time it with the new cooldown. But! This change was needed, as were all the others.

Good job DE.

19 minutes ago, Jackviator said:

I'm happy with everything but the Tonkor change. Don't get me wrong, it needed the nerf it's getting... but self-damage as it stands isn't the solution to its problems. Self-damage as a whole needs to change.

Self-damage shouldn't be an instant-kill if your Kubrow runs in front of your shot or something. It should be capped, like Concealed Explosives is, so the punishment for not paying attention while aiming isn't so severe as to drive people away from using the weapon at all.

If, instead, one took 150-200 damage or so, it wouldn't be a simple slap on the wrist, but it also wouldn't be the instant-death AoE punishment that drives people away from using explosive weapons.

 

I'll agree with this. Very glad they added the self damage (didn't make sense and partially why I never used it), but self damage itself is a bit overkill.

Edited by SoulEchelon
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10 hours ago, maumastoks said:

@[DE]Rebecca

Yea, perfect decision. Game had no veteran content to begin with and now make it complete crap - makes it easier to decide to leave Warframe for Mass Effect Andromeda. Thanks, I got your point!

 

This! Honestly, veterans are not included in Warframe.

There is no veteran content, and the closest thing we have to it (long endless mission runs for farming) requires strong weapons like the ones that have been nerfed. 

Instead of reducing the amount of viable weapons, we ultimately need more content to play. Please do continue to buff the more unique weapons though, they do need love. Just don't forget that there are players who like harder content which require strong guns to use. 

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1 hour ago, SoulEchelon said:

Oof, gonna mess using Telos Boltace as a container destroyer...then again maybe I still can; just gotta time it with the new cooldown. But! This change was needed, as were all the others.

Good job DE.

No no no, its not gonna be opening boxes anymore. Its going to pull enemies, then push them out, then you have to wait to do that again. Pushing them away constantly kills using maiming strike on it because you have to keep getting close to them to only push them away.

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11 minutes ago, CrimsonFAQer said:

We'll they can't give back time I think that's more of a hyperbole and a comment on time spent to multiple forma a weapon but they should refund lenses in some way. People pay money for those or lots of time thinking the game will be stable. I'm not a fan of nerfs because it makes people reluctant to spend real money to build up things they like. It's just spitting on paying players. I don't use the tonkor much but I know of players who payed so much Plat and are now screwed out of that money that supported DE. 

 

 

If lenses weren't dropping like candy from the Sorties I'd probably want to be able to uninstall them too.

But as it is they're now stupid cheap and piling up.

Which is probably more a commentary for replacing them as Sortie rewards than anything else I guess.

Eh... maybe this year they look at that again too.

Just now, nickl3188 said:

Oh also, for everyone happy Mirage is dead, just remember, they buffed the Attica, and thunderbolt works on it. Self damage yes, but a manageable self damage and decent stats ;)

 

Something I think a lot of people often over look with the Spamulor hate is the audio/visual noise.

Like at least 50% of the complaint directed at that whole thing were about that. 

DE changes seem to actually address that too since the Simulor can more or less do the same damage but requires using the "press to detonate" aspect of it.

Which will clean up all those crazy brightly colored floating orbs that end up literally everywhere.

Cheers!
~R~

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2 minutes ago, DarkAceCosmos said:

This! Honestly, veterans are not included in Warframe.

There is no veteran content, and the closest thing we have to it (long endless mission runs for farming) requires strong weapons like the ones that have been nerfed. 

Instead of reducing the amount of viable weapons, we ultimately need more content to play. Please do continue to buff the more unique weapons though, they do need love. Just don't forget that there are players who like harder content which require strong guns to use. 

That moment people realise they played all of the game content the devs had in mind, but still try to stretch the last bit of endless missions to insanity. people need to learn to relax and put their focus on something else until theres a new content patch instead of burning threw a game and cry about content in the forum.

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While Tonkor, Telos Boltace, and Synoid Simulor all needed a nerf... Tonkor didn't need the crit reduction after all it's other nerfs. I don't use the Tonkor much. I am fine with the self damage, though now that we have the Penta augment I don't think the self damage nerf was really that needed. I think it would of been better to instead give Ogris and other explosive weapons ways to avoid self damage.
 
I really don't know why the nerfed Simulor, that weapon was &#!. I think the balance to Synoid Simulour is fair seeing now you have to manually detonate and do more to earn the damage. And the increase in Status seems more like a nice buff with a slight auto damage nerf. The AoE CC this thing will bring will be nice. With Mirage, it might even make her spam the gun even more to spread whatever status you build for on the entire map. Pretty sure the chief complaint was all the screen obscuring rather than Synoid Simulor clearing rooms. It's damage falls off after level 100. The status buff will give it more of a use in the level 130 range. But seriously, why nerf Simulor? No one used it before.
 
I really disagree with the Telos Boltace change. Giving a melee a cool down? Just no. Reduce the damage of the waves, sure. Add knock down if you want CC. But don't give it a cool down. Please, no. I don't even USE Telos Boltace but please DE, reconsidered.
 
The funny thing is, the weapons that where nerfed themselves were not exactly that big of a problem, rather when Mirage uses them they seriously trivialize the game. Can we please balance Mirage rather than hitting all the weapons she abuses the nerf hammer?

As for the other changes... I think some of the mastery rank increases should be rethought. I don't think they should be all that high. Pantera should be like 5 or 6 and Miter should be 4 or 5. Miter being 6 and Pantera being 7 seems a little high. Same with Ogris. Tonkor will still do serious damage and that thing is like MR5, right? Penta is 6 and will be the only explosive weapon with no Self Damage with the Mod it has. So why would Ogris be 9?
 
I also disagree with Hind getting an alt fire. Should buff the primary burst rather than adding an alt fire because then no one would use the burst, they'd just use the semi auto alt fire.

And Buzlok being MR9? Seriously? Soma/Soma P are MR6. Sybaris/Dex Sybaris are MR5 and MR0. Latron/Latron Wraith/Latron Prime are MR0. You can make a case about Primes and Special Anniversary weapons and Latron being better than current Buzlok is debatable. And new Buzlok will probably be better than Latron come this balance. But still, Soma and Sybaris are still powerful with much lower requirements. Do you guys realize what Crit Primary Auto, Burst, and Semi Auto rifles Buzlok has to compete with? So is Soma and Sybaris gonna be MR 10 or are we nerfing Soma and Sybaris? (Please don't, for the love of god don't) Might be unfair to compare Buzlok to a shotgun but just look at Tigris and really ask yourself should Buzlok be at MR9?
 
Aside from that I am excited to see these changes. Harpak, Mutalist Quanta, Attica, Paracyst and Panthera especially are all weapons I enjoyed using but shelved because they didn't perform. I hope Digital Extremes does more weapon balancing rather then letting the RNG of Riven mods even the playing field.
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1 hour ago, Rolunde said:

If lenses weren't dropping like candy from the Sorties I'd probably want to be able to uninstall them too.

But as it is they're now stupid cheap and piling up.

Which is probably more a commentary for replacing them as Sortie rewards than anything else I guess.

Eh... maybe this year they look at that again too.

Something I think a lot of people often over look with the Spamulor hate is the audio/visual noise.

Like at least 50% of the complaint directed at that whole thing were about that. 

DE changes seem to actually address that too since the Simulor can more or less do the same damage but requires using the "press to detonate" aspect of it.

Which will clean up all those crazy brightly colored floating orbs that end up literally everywhere.

Cheers!
~R~

In my first post on here I suggested just a simple toggle for turning weapon effects on and off. That helps toasters and people generally annoyed with the visuals. then nerf the damage of the simulor accordingly to promote using the alt fire, but not burying it in the ground. I used simulor on mirage (running solo cause I know how much eye cancer it was). But since were on the topic of visual eye cancer and nerfing things to the ground, I had someone spamming the sonicor on me for an hour in the Pacifism Defect. Clearly needs to be nerfed into non existance right? No. Let me turn of the explosions which actually made me sick after that mission.

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3 hours ago, SilverWF said:

Are u serious? I would translate it for ya:

We would not reduce mutagen requirements for Hema coz: ppl are still buying it in the shop, also buying mutagens in the shop and also buying resource boosts in the shop.

We would nerf some good weapons, coz it allow players to not buy some boosters in the shop that often as we want to. To visually balance that nerf we would "buff" absolutely stupid and unusable for our high lvl content weapons.

No need to thanks me for the translation.

Your translation makes the message more ambiguous and doesn't clarify anything. OP made a good point that I, as a veteran 2000+ hour, agree with. Hema research should have been lowered its not like resources boosters are only good for mutagen. Also your second paragraph makes no sense. Nerd good weapons to allow player not to buy boosters? Please use complete sentences! 

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18 minutes ago, nickl3188 said:

Oh also, for everyone happy Mirage is dead, just remember, they buffed the Attica, and thunderbolt works on it. Self damage yes, but a manageable self damage and decent stats ;)

And theres still plenty of aoe weapons usable with Mirage, its just a matter of finding them. So don't worry, mirage is still here. And for those who seem to think shes only good for her 1, try using her 3 for the damage/detection buff (its based on lighting) and her 4 for blinding.

People will love seeing multishot riven kulstars, infinite ignis beams and attica cluster bombing.

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22 hours ago, [DE]Rebecca said:

If you have invested into a nerfed weapon, when the Update releases there will be an Inbox message generated on Login to give you a single 3 day Affinity Booster and a Forma per owned weapon to reconfigure your weapons as you see fit!

I have 5 forma on my Tonkor alone...

How about you just refund all the Forma I put on these weapon's that are being balanced ?

1 per weapon is kinda weak....

 

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do you guys want to lose everyplayer you still have cause ithats pretty much what your gonnado with most the nerf dont.nerf good weapon buff the bad ones lowering the power level of weapons well only piss ppl off  the whole reason ppl "abuse" the good weapons is the fact the other ones are not efficient for end game content is S#&$ like this that cuase games to die.

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2 hours ago, Ta10S said:

DE

I think you decided to nerf them because many people have screamed the nerf and you accepted it. And you may think you will pacify the screaming people by this. I think it will never happen.
 They will find another target and start screaming again regardless the actual need.

It will get only worse, they will scream harder and aim for another tOP used META like tigris prime, soma prime and so on...

Give the dumbs power and they will make you dumber.

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4 minutes ago, 01thanatos10 said:

do you guys want to lose everyplayer you still have cause ithats pretty much what your gonnado with most the nerf dont.nerf good weapon buff the bad ones lowering the power level of weapons well only piss ppl off  the whole reason ppl "abuse" the good weapons is the fact the other ones are not efficient for end game content is S#&$ like this that cuase games to die.

Those weapons were more powerful than powerful weapons already were. Don't make excuses just because someone nerfed your precious Tonkor.

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