Vengeful Revenant, War parts & the Sentients.

[Darkstorm0X53]

My fellow Tenno.

If you are here chances are that you seek the elusive stance mod Vengeful Revenant, or perhaps parts for the War/Broken War, so that you can own both at once?

at the time of writing this, update 20 has arrived and been out for around 2 days now.

and if you are actively playing the game, by now it is likely many of you have at least tried your hand at the quest to obtain Octavias blueprint.

during the quest, it becomes apparent that the Sentient Hunhow is wrestling control of the Suda Cephalon. queue his minions, the Conculyst and Battalyst.

of which you will be aware for whatever reason DE decided only the "Conculyst" will drop anything of value. and beget the Prizes we all seek.

WAR parts and VENGFUL REVENANT!

 

to be more specific the third mission, or the Mandachords second tune( Lua ). is when Hunhow and his ilk reveal themselves.

By way of a bug, or an oversight by DE. Once you have completed the second tune, if you choose not to proceed to extraction, Sentients will indefinitely continue to spawn in and try to end you. making a relatively easy way to farm for the drops from Conculysts if you have the patience. it is also worth noting that the quest CAN be replayed from the codex once completed.

However it is very likely that this may be patched in the future, so don't go calling it the new farming method yet.

 

But this is not the purpose of this thread, i actually want to talk about numbers and the ludicrously low ,and inaccurately documented as drop rarity by the game.

If you look at the conculysts in the codex you will see that for drops, the war parts are colored silver to indicate an "uncommon" drop rarity, whilst the Vengeful Revenant mod is colored gold to indicate a "Rare" rarity or at least rarer than silver, or so it is supposed to be.

But the real world tests differ and show how stupid the drop rates truly are.

 

Myself and a buddy decided to do the mission in this quest to pass the time as we waited for the Void fissures to refresh, due to an absence of endless missions.

between the two of us, we came back with results quite startling.

The following image is a screen-cap of the scoreboard from my friends game as he decided to leave after approximately 1200 Sentient kills:

as you can see, as unreal as it may seem you are indeed looking at his loot pool with no less than 7 Vengeful Revenant mods!

and yet despite this Mod having a lower chance of dropping, he ended the run with more of these than he did War parts which was what the time was spent trying to obtain?

a extreme case of luck?, perhaps...

 

However my own Run was equally puzzling, while at the time i did not think i had as great a luck as he, by my own runs end with only 770 Sentient kills, while i only managed to get but 1 Vengeful mod to drop, i also got 4 Double-Barrel Drift Mods which turned out to be in the same drop rarity as Vengeful Revenant, according to the codex at least.

 

so now for the numbers.

between our total kills= 2000 ( 1200+ 770[rounded to 800])

to Vengeful Revenant-esqe drops= 12 ( 7+1+4[D-BD] )

2000/12 = 166.66666666666666666666666666667

or roughly an average of 167 Sentients killed to drop 1 Vengeful Revenant, assuming you count the Double-Barrel drift mods i added in( [D-BD] ).

and this gives the drop rate of the mods per sentient a stupidly low sum of 0.598802395209580838323353293413% or 0.6%

 

whereas the War parts being even lower which just doesn't work according to DEs own damned chart.

as veiwable above on my friends scoreboard he collected 5 total War parts, and in my run i collected just 4.

Now using the same theorem as above.

 between our total kills= 2000 ( 1200+ 770[rounded to 800])

to War parts dropped and collected 9 (5+4)

2000/9 = 222.22222222222222222222222222222

or roughly an average of 222 Sentients killed to drop 1 War part, not considering you may be after one and not the other in which case the total doubles.

and this gives the drop rate of the War parts per sentient a shameful percentage of 0.45045045045045045045045045045% or  0.45%

 

 

I will admit that my test isn't flawless, a third wheel( person ) would have made for a better averaging on the results, but this is still a testament of how poor the drop rate on these items is.

and on an enemy that only spawns on one particular Tileset ( Lua ), infrequently and is still subject to RNG of which of the two enemys will spawn since only 1 of them actually contains the things we want!, which would skew my numbers even further. as the 2 sentients do not have a 50:50 spawn rate, if anything the Battalysts are more common.  

 

So what do you think?

if this doesn't get patched are these drop rates fair?

if it does are you okay with this also?

is it time DE had a look at this and made our odds more favorable?, i think they should for the War parts at least!

 

What about you?

 

Feel free to share this around on Reddit Etc, as i can't be bothered.

 

Good luck and Good Hunting Tenno!

 

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by Darkstorm0X53

[kyori]

This new quest has successfully lowered much of that mod's price.

[Darkstorm0X53]

Just now, kyori said:

This new quest has successfully lowered much of that mod's price.

No doubt, but the mods drop rate is still incredibly poor. my numbers show that

[Hemmo67]

holdon a moment. what mission? O_o

[(PSN)robotwars7]

already have both Vengeful Revenant and War, but good to know there'll be a chance for others to get it a bit easier. personally I need those damn Kuva Heavy Gunners to drop Sovereign Outcast.. I wish they could have just kept the new stances uncommon, like Spinning Needle; it's not like they even make enough of a difference to DPS to warrant being that rare and valuable, it's preference more than anything.

[BloodKitten]

5 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

holdon a moment. what mission? O_o

probebly the part with the second music section for the quest, i think they are respawning on the way to extraction.

[Hemmo67]

1 minute ago, BloodKitten said:

probebly the part with the second music section for the quest, i think they are respawning on the way to extraction.

yeah but they stopped rewspawning after i killed couple of them

so question is how did they get 1200 sentients X_X

[Darkstorm0X53]

6 minutes ago, Hemmo67 said:

yeah but they stopped rewspawning after i killed couple of them

so question is how did they get 1200 sentients X_X

2000

the mission is solo.

i got 770

and he got 1200 

as stated above, two separate games just played simultaneously.

as mentioned it could be a glitch. but we just waited a bit from the music room as soon as it starts to become corridors and hallways.

i probably should have mentioned we weren't nonstop killing them, the total kills were achieved over the course of just over 2 and 1/2 hours.

 

not quite your average extermination of 200 kills in five minutes or less....

 

[Ghogiel]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Mods_2.0

 

Yeah looks about right for WFs RNG. Apparently you have a 3% chance for a mod from any kill, and only 2% of those will be rare. Not sure if Sentients have any special drop rates, but even if we looked it would be best to discuss anything actually numerically accurate on a superior discussion platform.

[MystMan]

1 hour ago, Hemmo67 said:

yeah but they stopped rewspawning after i killed couple of them

 

They don't stop respawning.  You sometimes have to wait a few seconds for new ones to appear if their spawn zone is far away. Some spawn zones are close, others are far. Sentients move slow.

Best place to farm them is exactly where it all starts, under the Power Rift gazebo room. Multiple spawn areas all around you.

 

I killed exactly 500 and got:

• 1 Vengeful Reventant.
• 3 Double-Barrel Drift
• 2 Gun Glide
• 3 Strafing Slide
• 2 Lock and Load
• 1 Tactical Reload
• 44 Air Recon
• 40 Broad Eye
• 34 Overview
• 7 Reflex Draw
• 5 Agile Aim
• 10 Snap Shot
• 10 Soft Hands
• 7 Spry Sights
• 7 Twitch
• 4 War Blade
• 230 Neurodes
• .....aaaand one Ayatan Vaya Sculpture I found somewhere.

 

I now realize that absolutely no War Hilt dropped while a Vengeful Revenant did.  

Edited March 26, 2017 by MystMan

[Chan1ebr]

For me Ive done the run twice, didn't memorize the drops exactly, as i was focused on Dreadful Revenant.

 

First Run. - 97 Sentients - 2 Dreadful Revenants and 0 War Parts.

Second Run - 513 Sentients - 1 Dreadful Revenants and 4 Hilts and 2 Blades. 

Both Runs as Ivara pickpocketing all enemies. (I checked ability and I have 100% loot chance with Prowl).

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

And let's not forget, actually fighting the Sentients is not fun.

[RazorTip]

1 hour ago, 1tsyB1tsyN1nj4 said:

And let's not forget, actually fighting the Sentients is not fun.

Well, no, but I found a way to deal with them. Take a Frost Prime, Strun Wraith, Telos Akbolto, and Galatine Prime. Spam Snowglobe and Avalanche on them, and then take a few shots with Strun W, and finish them off with your melee. NEVER get boxed in, and use your Operator burst (hold 5) to nuke them with your void beam, whenever you're against groups of 5 or more.

 

I just did a Lua run, 306 sentient kills, and they dropped one War hilt, blade, and a single Vengeful Ruin.

And a ton of neurodes and argons.

[StarCommanderVong]

See, what you failed to mention was that they literally do not stop spawning.

Ever.

I had 30 on screen at one time and they were all linked together so I was dealing 30 damage per arrow.

[patrizl001]

after 158 kills, I got...

1 vengeful revenant

85 credits

70 neurodes

991 ferrite

50 detonite ampule

6 orokin cell

151 rubedo

1 tactical reload

1 agile aim

1 reflex draw

1 snap shot

1 soft hands

2 twitch

1 gun glide

7 air recon

22 broad eye

15 overview

 

and not a single war part

 

used Ivara and just stayed cloaked and spammed artemis bow shots at them. Even with the resistance it still does a lot of damage to them

 

Edited March 26, 2017 by patrizl001

[Darkstorm0X53]

Ivara ey?

I didn't factor in double loot abilities such as hers, none the less the results appear quite similar.

i am pleased that some of you have shared your own results, and had results comparable to mine.

 

i'd say a few of you would agree with me in saying Vengeful Revenant and/or Double-Barrel Drift, seems to have more of a chance of dropping than the War parts.

 

so it appears at the very least that the drop table for conculysts is inaccurate in terms of rarity?

i wonder how DE would try to justify these Results?

Let us all not forget after all, that until now (for the moment at least) the only way to kill these things was taking a chance on various nodes on Lua and hoping some Oculysts would spawn and see you, triggering a measly amount of them to spawn in (hopefully) Conculysts.

in my own experience running the Tycho Survival node has a rough spawn ratio of between 200-300:4 for Sentients (since multiple spawn in at once)

making the Conculysts one of, if not the rarest spawning enemy in the game. combined with the extremely low drop rate of items that aren't resources, in our case War parts and the Vengeful Revenant mod. also due to the fact that the Conculysts have a pretty big drop table. we are looking at such a stupidly low drop rate, it should be considered criminal. ( within normal drop condition, i.e. not the mission in this quest )

 

also as others have pointed out, the Sentients aren't exactly easy to kill for your average Tenno.

While there are ways around this, i used Valkyr and went to town with Hysteria myself, due to the free Max energy everytime A sentient is killed. making the process quite trivial.

if you were to class the enemy however, they are more of a mini-boss than your standard enemy.

 

More drop results if you please everyone.

the data is quite interesting.

[Kierlak]

3038 kills, with a 100% prowl Ivara (but not all were looted, a fair number died from link damage)

 

11 Vengeful Revenants

 

19 War hilts

 

18 War blades

 

1295 Neurodes

 

0 Mutagen Samples

 

 

[Darkstorm0X53]

1 minute ago, Kierlak said:

3038 kills, with a 100% prowl Ivara (but not all were looted, a fair number died from link damage)

 

11 Vengeful Revenants

 

19 War hilts

 

18 War blades

 

1295 Neurodes

 

0 Mutagen Samples

 

 

See now these are the sort of drop results one would expect.

Mind you, any idea how many if any Double-Barrel Drift mods you obtained?

as they have the same chance of dropping as Vengful Revenant.

[Kierlak]

10 minutes ago, Darkstorm0X53 said:

Mind you, any idea how many if any Double-Barrel Drift mods you obtained?

 21

[Darkstorm0X53]

30 minutes ago, Kierlak said:

 21

so + your 11 Vengefuls = 32

vs 

19 hilts and 18 blades =  37 war parts.

 

better but still not quite what i would call much of a difference in rarity.

 

37+32= 69 total drops within the range we are looking.

now to work out the percentages.

where 1= 100%

37/69= 0.53623188405797101449275362318841 or roughly 53.6%

32/69= 0.46376811594202898550724637681159 or roughly 46.4%

 

so in your case you had an ever so slightly better chance at the War parts than you did at Vengeful/ the Rare mods. less than 10 percent difference.

and of course you still had to kill over 3000 Sentients, Kudos for having the patience by the way!

 

of course this whole scenario still doesn't take into account the Rare mod drops from the Battalyst Sentients, whether or not they are as Desirable as the drops from Conculysts. 

[ThorienKELL]

Chances are not that bad imo, I've got 1 vengeful and I've dropped a handful of batalysts. And I see them go for 35p in trade chat which means they drop fairly frequently. 

[Darkstorm0X53]

18 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

Chances are not that bad imo, I've got 1 vengeful and I've dropped a handful of batalysts. And I see them go for 35p in trade chat which means they drop fairly frequently. 

Battalysts don't drop them, Conculysts do.

as another member already mentioned due to this new mission which allows for farming indefinitely ( for now ). the going price has dropped significantly.

and just because you may have had one drop for you after killing only a few Sentients, does not automatically mean the same thing will happen for another player.

as with all things RNG based, your Mileage will vary.

 

the purpose of this thread was to provide statistical drop averages, and since some players also search for War parts so that they can build and own both the Broken War and War swords in their inventory, without needing to hand over 800 platinum to DE for a bundle which likely contains 1 item they want.compare the likeliness of obtaining a War part vs Vengeful Revenant, which as number posted by myself and fellow members have shown, is somewhere between war parts being less likely and having similar drop rate parity to Vengeful Revenant. this would be fine if they were both say... Uncommon? but as it stands they are not with Vengeful Revenant being in the Rare category, therefore across the board War parts should be far more common than the Vengeful mod.

The idea is to give players an idea of what they are in for if they go Conculyst farming. and provide (whether you agree about the drop rate or not) statistical evidence showing that traditionally farming them prior to this update, due to their extremely low spawn rates, was slim-nil , you were more likely of farming all the Vauban prime parts solo, from only intact relics. whether or not DE decides to remove this new method or not remains to be seen, but considering as time goes on they make it more and more difficult to obtain new Warframes and the like ( farming Saryn parts from Kela de thyam post operation Rathuum, and DEs response to those that inquire spring to mind ). i would not be surprised if in a few weeks time (or sooner) there is patch removing the infinitely spawning Sentients.

 

While i won't disrespect your answer as always everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i do believe you missed the point of this thread.

and my statistics, along with all others who have contributed here and continue to, will be archived, and can be used as reference. for those that desire them.

[ThorienKELL]

56 minutes ago, Darkstorm0X53 said:

While i won't disrespect your answer as always everyone is entitled to their own opinion, i do believe you missed the point of this thread.

and my statistics, along with all others who have contributed here and continue to, will be archived, and can be used as reference. for those that desire them.

This is why we disagree in conclusions: If the price had dropped significantly, this means mod is significantly more abundant then before, partially because of quest, possibility of endless grind but in my experience only insignificant proportion of player base is geared and willed to kill countless conculysts. Less then 1% maybe, so they are not affecting the price drop imo that much. In any case mod is accessible now to much more people then before, so we all should be happy. 

[Trissila]

On 3/26/2017 at 7:39 AM, Darkstorm0X53 said:

So what do you think?

if this doesn't get patched are these drop rates fair?

if it does are you okay with this also?

is it time DE had a look at this and made our odds more favorable?, i think they should for the War parts at least!

 

That's cute, you think 0.6% drop rates on rare and desirable mods is harsh.

 

Back in my day, we played Ragnarok Online, and EVERY card (the equivalent of Warframe's Mods) had a 0.0001% drop rate. Yes, one in ten-thousand.

[Darkstorm0X53]

8 hours ago, ThorienKELL said:

This is why we disagree in conclusions: If the price had dropped significantly, this means mod is significantly more abundant then before, partially because of quest, possibility of endless grind but in my experience only insignificant proportion of player base is geared and willed to kill countless conculysts. Less then 1% maybe, so they are not affecting the price drop imo that much. In any case mod is accessible now to much more people then before, so we all should be happy. 

o don't get me wrong i'm happy that it's easier to get now, and overall i agree with your opinion. for the moment yes i agree, the new quest even with the low drop rates i outlined makes it infinitely easier. But i am worried that this may be an un-intended side-effect by DE and will not be permanent.

 

and it's not like everybody can just drop everything and go dedicate or be willing to dedicate an hour or 2 for the grind fest to guarantee a drop while they can?

as you have just mentioned yourself few players are even geared to kill so many Sentients, so I ask then, if DE does see this as an exploit and sees about patching it sooner rather than later, should those unfortunate enough to be unable to do this now be subject to all the variables of how it was prior to the update?

 

if the quest does not get patched i have no problem with the current drop rate, my problem is how it was before.

if you take the drop rate percentages from my op, and then factor in the math involved working with the old method doing missions on lua, particularly survival, with only a few Sentients spawning in every few hundred other enemy killed also noting that there is the chance for Only Battalysts to spawn un-accompanied by a single Conculysts.

Take those percenatges and divide them by the total number of enemys killed over the course of that mission, then that will give you chances of dropping one per run.

 

but again i must emphasis if this mission is un-altered the drop rates are fine, we can just tell players to farm "mission 3" octavia quest.

to that end i agree with you.