[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[MartianGHunter]

Is it just me or community asks for abilities to scale and then DE gives us these abilities and we ask for nerfs? 

Cause if Limbo is nerfed then Nidus and Octavia need to be nerfed as well.

And if we are on that note anything with scaling damage should be nerfed by that logic e.g Nova's Mp or Loki's disarm (making enemies weaponless and scales infinitly is too OP)

This is why we can't have nice things we are ungrateful and don't like seeing others have fun and Limbo's nuke only works in best case scenario to clear trash mobs high level grineer tend to survive and one shot limbo afterwards anyways

But if you want him nerfed then DE go ahead but nerf everything else that scales as well otherwise leave my beloved now improved limbo alone!

Edited April 5, 2017 by MartianGHunter

[PatternistSlave]

3 minutes ago, Venule said:

But if sorties are hard for me, would that not mean that I'm bad at Warframe?

The point you seem to be missing is that "skill" as you're using it is subjective.  What's "skill" to you might be completely nothing to me.  And is btw.  It's utterly ridiculous to me in a game with so little mechanical difficulty hearing people throw around the word "skill".

5 minutes ago, Venule said:

definition of ad hominem,

 

46 minutes ago, Venule said:

How delusional are you?

 

26 minutes ago, Venule said:

You really can't continue making the argument you're making, especially when you can only make a straw man out of my responses. You are arguing outside of reality with your own warped definition

Let's not toss stones in our glass house.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

After watching one video and getting off the rework hype train. Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.
3. Banish is fine as a AOE but its another way to troll other players. How about add a cool down timer on it when used on players so they can't be banished again. Next decrease the time that the other players are in the rift. I would say make it 15 or 10 second. Along the lines as if they step in one of limbos portals.

Guys these nerf limbo threads are getting out of hand. The main reason they set this thread up is to get our feedback. Next to use that info to balance him out not nerf him just soon as they released his rework. Second to my limbo mains out there relearn him. If you mastered him once you can do it again .Don't shut down the hard work DE put into this rework .These threads about limbo have gotten so bad that console players (Myself Included) jumped in and added our feedback.

Now that I am done would guys kindly up vote my reply so DE can see this idea to balance limbo out and make him team friendly.   

 

Edited April 5, 2017 by (PS4)Seabastion25
To add more to it

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

After watching one video and getting off the rework hype train. Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

Guys these nerf limbo threads are getting out of hand. The main reason they set a thread about him up is to get our feedback. Next to use that info to balance him out not nerf him just soon as they released his rework. Second to my limbo mains out there relearn him. If you mastered him once you can do it again .Don't shut down the hard work DE put into this rework .These threads about limbo have gotten so bad that console players (Myself Included) jumped in and added our feedback.

 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

After watching one video and getting off the rework hype train. Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

Guys these nerf limbo threads are getting out of hand. The main reason they set up a thread about him is to get our feedback. Next to use that info to balance him out not nerf him just soon as they released his rework. Second to my limbo mains out there relearn him. If you mastered him once you can do it again .Don't shut down the hard work DE put into this rework .These threads about limbo have gotten so bad that console players (Myself Included) jumped in and added our feedback.

 

[Luzzu]

1 minute ago, PatternistSlave said:

The point you seem to be missing is that "skill" as you're using it is subjective.  What's "skill" to you might be completely nothing to me.  And is btw.  It's utterly ridiculous to me in a game with so little mechanical difficulty hearing people throw around the word "skill".

 

 

Let's not toss stones in our glass house.

Everything in Merriam-Webster's dictionary is subjective, then? You're trying to tell me what is and isn't skill, so I retrieved its definition. What skill is to me is possessing knowledge and using that knowledge practically successfully. That's not something you can deny, that's its definition and it's a fact. When I say to you that Saryn requires some degree of skill to use to her maximum potential, that's not subjective. Her kit has a lot of substance to it and there are many, many factors in maximizing her damage output and even experienced Saryn players cannot always maintain those factors controlling her damage output. You're saying that doesn't exist? You really are delusional, my dude.

 

The only thing here that is utterly ridiculous is whatever argument you're trying to make. Limbo with Cataclysm is overloaded. It's too good. If it required any sort of heightened game knowledge or extensive set-up to pull off, maybe people wouldn't be so against it. But that's not the case. The Limbo in my squad was able to spam Cataclysm to no end for 10 waves before I left. It's disruptive and it makes anyone who isn't playing Limbo completely useless. Every other Frame needs some kind of set-up to do anything even remotely close to what Limbo can now do. I didn't think I needed to spell this out for you, but spamming Limbo Cataclysm is a brainless task. It's on par with Ember pressing 4 to toggle World on Fire except, oh wait, Ember doesn't one-shot everything in range in an instant and then get her energy back for it for free.

 

The point that you seem to be missing is that Warframe is supposed to be fun for an entire squad. What kind of kick does anyone get out of watching a Limbo mash his malformed forehead on his 4 key killing absolutely every enemy caught in his monkey-proof kit at any level, in virtually no time at all, at no cost. Go play your Dark Souls and turn on god mode. Where will all the skill you said Dark Souls needs to play go, I wonder...

[EinheriarJudith]

12 minutes ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

 To further show that limbo is a master of time.

Limbo was never a master of time ever. he is a master of dimensions. time and dimension are not the same thing. the only thing that has time scale on him is stasis a power that should not even be in his kit.

Edited April 5, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Sziklamester]

My opinion Limbo is now a very good frame but his ultimate is scaling too good against anything but the everyday use Limbo is a good go to go frame now. There shouldn't be nerf him under the ground and no need to removing his ult damage side because before the rework also dealt damage on lower level enemies but it wasn't that effective as now.

My suggestion is tweak other frames too and let the abilities scale for example till level 100 after that reduce 5% by 10 levels so in a level 500 your frame won't be as effective as before and on lvl 1000 it is pretty much weak. 

The fix damage dealing is broken in this enemy scaling system or the abilities fixed to deal a certain amount of damage or the enemy level should be stop at level 100 and those supposed to be the highest level enemies.

On early to mid and pre high levels mostly all ability works well after that just pretty few useful. I am on the balancing side and equal needs nerfs and buffs but recently they just nerfed things now there is the time to buff aswell.

 

Which is not buff nerf queston is the eenmy scaling, enemy spawn, player ability scaling, player survivability.

These systems needs a massive overhaul in order to make the game fun and a bit more balanced but the fact a game like this won't be balanced because different frames use different abilities. 

Currently I like the Limbo and I don't want him a massive nerf.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

How about this guys? Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

Limbo was never a master of time ever. he is a master of dimensions. time and dimension are not the same thing. the only thing that has time scale is stasis a power that should not even be in his kit.

I know but its apart of his kit now. I'm trying to help out in this debacle and throw out ideas to make limbo team friendly. People are complaining about stasis well allow their firearms to damage enemies under its effect. Cataclysm damage scaling is insane well balance it out. I like limbo and I like a good part of his rework but the problem we're looking at is his Cataclysm spam and his stasis hindering other players fun. I'm not on here to argue but help out. 

Sorry about that. I got on my soapbox again.

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

How about this guys? Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

 

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

How about this guys? Here are two things DE can do to balance Limbo out and make him team friendly. 

1.  To further show that limbo is a master of time. His teams primary and secondary can damage enemies but keep his own weapons bullets frozen in stasis. This way limbo can still set up his shots and have fun. This will also remove his ability to troll players and allow him to be the great support frame that he is.
2. Scale down Cataclysms damage by a percentage that makes it fair and balanced. Doing this will enforce players not to rely solely on cataclysm.

I am not apart of the "Limbo needs to be nerf bandwagon" I want them to balance him just like they did Nidus. Limbo is one of my favorite warframe's and I want DE to do him justice when they balance him out. 

[PatternistSlave]

Just now, Venule said:

What skill is to me is possessing knowledge and using that knowledge practically successfully.

Then having Limbo and using an ability is a skill.  Make up your mind.  Either it's subjective and my definition varies wildly from yours or it's objective and picking your nose is a skill.  Either way you're contradicting yourself.  Mechanical difficulty which is what you were originally talking about?  There isn't a significant difference between Limbo and any other character even if pushing his 4 instantly killed everything.

 

15 minutes ago, Venule said:

The point that you seem to be missing is that Warframe is supposed to be fun for an entire squad

Fun being the key word.  Yeah I've seen Limbo's spam their 4s off and on to do damage.  It didn't seem real fun for anyone and makes an annoying noise to top it off.  All I want is for everyone to be clear on what specifically is wrong and not just cry nerf for a perceived power and/or skill level.

[EinheriarJudith]

15 minutes ago, (PS4)Seabastion25 said:

I know but its apart of his kit now. I'm trying to help out in this debacle and throw out ideas to make limbo team friendly. People are complaining about stasis well allow their firearms to damage enemies under its effect. Cataclysm damage scaling is insane well balance it out. I like limbo and I like a good part of his rework but the problem we're looking at is his Cataclysm spam and his stasis hindering other players fun. I'm not on here to argue but help out. 

Sorry about that. I got on my soapbox again.

brother its not your fault DE should have known from the long history of player behavior with spammy WF powers that map kill, that people were going to abuse scaling damage on cataclysm. i could see that coming a mile away. and for those that said before how often do you run x4 CP? lol you dont even need x4 cp. when i play mag on grineer i use CP + Coaction drift when i hit polarize armor is gone. and if 2 people happen to end up in the group with that same mod combo armor is gone.

Edited April 5, 2017 by EinheriarJudith

[Luzzu]

Just now, PatternistSlave said:

Then having Limbo and using an ability is a skill.  Make up your mind.  Either it's subjective and my definition varies wildly from yours or it's objective and picking your nose is a skill.  Either way you're contradicting yourself.  Mechanical difficulty which is what you were originally talking about?  There isn't a significant difference between Limbo and any other character even if pushing his 4 instantly killed everything.

 

Fun being the key word.  Yeah I've seen Limbo's spam their 4s off and on to do damage.  It didn't seem real fun for anyone and makes an annoying noise to top it off.  All I want is for everyone to be clear on what specifically is wrong and not just cry nerf for a perceived power and/or skill level.

I'm specifically saying that Limbo using his 4 requires no skill. Pressing a button requires no skill. Please stop using straw man and even making things up to try to make a point. If something requires both knowledge and mechanical ability (dexterity) to perform, it requires skill. That's the bottom line. It does not take skill to spam Cataclysm as Limbo thanks to the base %health/shield scaling and energy return on kills. It just works without any prior knowledge of it and is essentially cost-free. No other Warframe has this. That's the problem. Why you're trying to debate me in circles I cannot understand - it's beside the point. Limbo can do whatever damage he wants to do, but if he's able to refund all of his energy for something that powerful and do it in an infinite loop, how is that fair to other players? Why should you use anything that isn't Limbo?

 

I have no problem whatsoever with scaling abilities. I'd like to see more of them. I'm an OG Nyx player and as far back as I can remember, she was the first to even have a scaling ability. The problem is either with how much damage he deals or how often he can use Cataclysm. If DE addresses one, not both, he should be dialed down and this whole thing will likely blow over. As it is, its too good to not use over and over, which disrupts play for everyone in the squad and makes three-fourths of the squad feel useless. It's not a good feeling; it's not why people log into Warframe and play this game.

 

Warframe is team-based and cooperative. It shouldn't be all about one poorly balanced 4 that can do what three squad members can't do combined.

[Demon.King]

I don't understand people defending the current state of cataclysm. Do you REALLY think DE will leave it as it is, After they removed mag 2?

This is about learning from the past. Some people just know what will happen if the damage is not reduced now. After some time, rather than having cataclysm damage fixed, his WHOLE KIT would be nerfed to the ground to compensate for the numbers they'd be seeing.

UNDERSTAND NOW?

Edited April 5, 2017 by Demon.King

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

2 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

brother its not your fault DE should have known from the long history of player behavior with spammy WF powers that map kill, that people were going to abuse scaling damage on cataclysm. i could see that coming a mile away.and for those that said before how often do you run x4 CP? lol you dont even need x4 cp. when i play mag on grineer i use CP + Coaction drift when i hit polarize armor is gone. and if 2 people happen to end up in the group with that same mod combo armor is severely reduced.

You're right bro and one halve of the player base will always find and take advantage of some new powerful warframe abilities until DE learns. I'm just on here trying to get my idea across that's all. Plus these nerf limbo threads are giving me a headache. I mean DE just released his rework. Seriously though lol those two ideas I pitched will hopefully be seen. 

[Muao]

I support nerf, cause this warframe broke my gameplay without asking me, 

He froze time so I have to use melee weapon, he put me into rift so I can't pick booty。

It's not me playing game but limbo playing me, don't like it, I just want to play game in my own favorite way

 

[DinendalMinyatur]

Guess title should be changed to "Cataclysm needs to be nerfed"

Which is fine for me personally, I always played like how Limbo rework was advertised on Devstream

 

48 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

Limbo was never a master of time ever. he is a master of dimensions. time and dimension are not the same thing. the only thing that has time scale on him is stasis a power that should not even be in his kit.

Time is an element of spacetime/4D space

Edited April 5, 2017 by DinendalMinyatur

[(PSN)Seabastion25]

2 minutes ago, Muao said:

I support nerf, cause this warframe broke my gameplay without asking me, 

He froze time so I have to use melee weapon, he put me into rift so I can't pick booty。

It's not me playing game but limbo playing me, don't like it, I just want to play game in my own favorite way

 

Well that's why I'm trying to get my ideas across to balance him and make him team friendly. Now with the "banish you to the rift"  that's either players trolling you or players who never used him before. I recommend you get as far way from those limbos as possible. They are leaving a bad taste in your mouth with limbo just to make you angry.

[PatternistSlave]

Just now, Venule said:

Pressing a button requires no skill

 

25 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

There isn't a significant difference between Limbo and any other character even if pushing his 4 instantly killed everything.

 

15 minutes ago, Venule said:

Why you're trying to debate me in circles I cannot understand

I don't know that I can take credit for circles.

18 minutes ago, Venule said:

over and over, which disrupts play for everyone in the squad and makes three-fourths of the squad feel useless.

Easily solved with a cooldown on the damage so it doesn't get benefit from being spammed.  I just don't want to see his kit butchered because a few people are using him in unintended/annoying ways.

[(PSN)Xx_Weasle_xX]

Limbo getting nerfed. Let's get all the frames nerf in the name of BALANCE!

 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

2 hours ago, Huanthus said:

Granted cataclysm hits like a truck but thematically and namely speaking its a cataclysm, it should erradicate things. Now you are complaining about  having a big cata killin lots of stuff but let me remind you rift surge did not cause a radial banish on enemies that left the rift while surged on the beta it actually made a bunch of mini cataclysms so i feel limbo was released quite balanced for what it could have been.

I also remember they removed the damage cause by Rift Surge making enemies arc lightning to hit enemies outside the rift and cause a chain reaction. I'm glad they removed that. That could've been damage on top of damage on top of damage.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

43 minutes ago, PatternistSlave said:

Easily solved with a cooldown on the damage so it doesn't get benefit from being spammed.  I just don't want to see his kit butchered because a few people are using him in unintended/annoying ways.

Someone once suggested to make Cataclysm's collapse damage be based on how long Cataclysm was left open. Normally, damage of the collapse is based on 10% of the total health and shields of all enemies in the bubble when its closed but with this suggested mechanic, the damage starts at 0% and with each second that Cataclysm is left open, the damage scales up by 1% for each second capping at 10%. This means when you activate Cataclysm, you need to wait at least 10 seconds before closing it so you can take advantage of the full power of the damage.

I don;t mind it. This curbs its spamming potential and doesn't lose any of its current functions to spread stasis and surge and catch enemies in the rift. You can close it any time you want or keep it open for as long as your power duration lets you but if you want the full damage during the collapse, you'll need to wait at least 10 seconds before closing it.

[Fallen_Echo]

1 hour ago, Muao said:

I support nerf, cause this warframe broke my gameplay without asking me, 

He froze time so I have to use melee weapon, he put me into rift so I can't pick booty。

It's not me playing game but limbo playing me, don't like it, I just want to play game in my own favorite way

 

Im sorry but limbo could do that before the rework too or atleast most of it.