[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Thesiobhan]

1 minute ago, Wreck_Dum said:

Can't you rift surge enemies outside the rift while still being in the rift? The patch says surged enemies outside the rift are automatically banished, but I can't test this right now.

no, enemies that get hit with the rift surge explosion of an enemy in the rift are brought into the rift, but you can't interact with people outside the rift in ANY way (other than cata which shrinks insanely quickly) when inside the rift.

[Roachester]

1 minute ago, Wreck_Dum said:

Can't you rift surge enemies outside the rift while still being in the rift? The patch says surged enemies outside the rift are automatically banished, but I can't test this right now.

You can't. They have to be in the rift with you.

[pierdrago]

finally the donwload was complete and i tried the new limbo. just done the allert for the anniversary weapons.

my impressions:

• i feel the void dash a bit unconfortable becouse it always move forward, in the infested rescue mission i fallen down a few times trying to exit/entering the rift
• in the interception a met another limbo player, the interaction was very annoyng becose if he stop the time first i can't make it flow again using 2
• never used the rift surge
• the rift grafic effect it's been toned too, it's very hard to distinguish a rifted enemie from a normal one in the chaos of the combat, particles, auras explosions, power skills etc etc. the rift itself (i mean the overall post process) seams to be more "transparent" or more similar to the normal plane than before

i found it frustrating

[Hjalmthrimul]

I just don't understand the motivation behind the new Banish.  What was the priority list for this rework?  Everything about Limbo hangs on his control over who is and who isn't in the rift.  It's all well and good to have an ability that sends enemies to whatever place means they can't hurt you.  But that's only half the functionality that players need.  We have an ability that sends enemies to the rift.  That's another half of the functionality.  But those halves are orthogonal to each other, and leave 1/4 of the possibility space untouched.  You can cover everything with just two abilities.  If you have one ability to send people away from your plane, have the other bring them to your plane.  If one ability sends them to a specific plane, then include a reciprocal ability to send them to the other.  Or have it work the old way, where one ability works on single targets and the other on groups.

Having control over the rift state of everyone on the battlefield is the STARTING point for Limbo.  The benefits of being on one plane or another make no sense otherwise.  This issue is more important than making sure that plane changes deal damage, because it determines how Limbo gets in range to do damage.  It's more important than improving survivability, because it is itself survivability.  It's more important than deciding what party role Limbo should fill, because he will fill it with rift bonuses.  How could this not be top priority in the rework?

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

The irony is that it sounds like he was closer to that before the rework. 

[Asdryu]

Rework is here and I have only one word to describe it: unplayable

1st: what's the point of me being in the same plane to move the enemies as I please?

2nd: why the hell do I get moved out from the rift if I move out of cataclysm; why the hell do enemies keep staying in the rift when out of cataclysm?

3rd: there are pros and cons on riftwalking now. You don't need energy obviously and 2 it's slightly faster than rolling.
Cons: it removed the passive of movement speed and reload speed, nothing else can be done during the "roll"

[Antanaru]

The "Master of the  Rift" can't banish enemies while he's in the rift? That is so horrendously clunky and awkward to work around. Just like everyone else has said; it breaks game flow and gets him killed. This seriously needs addressing.

[(PSN)VaDeR81]

Would it be better if banish was reversed??

[GrimAtrament]

murdered juggernaught with rift surge time stop loiving this rework much better then he was before 

everyone  crying about rework is great just the mulirift should work while your in the rift on people outside the rift but i guess its for balanacing

he would be a bit broken if he could bansh while in the rift keeping everyone frozen

Edited March 25, 2017 by hazerddex

[painterman]

I have one mayor problem with limbo right now: banish. The bread&butter of the frame now its counter intuitive.

First i have to say that the new dash to enter the rift is tricky to understad at first but then its one of the most esential changes limbo needed. Stasis is a cool conept and its a very good panic button, noting wrong with it but nothing special. Cataclysm remains more or less the same. Now lets get to the problem:

 

While banish push enemys to the other plane were is limbo fits , it results in a coodependecy with rift surge to a bad point, because now you need to push a few enemys into the rift, cast surge and then unbanish then to get the other surronding enemys into the rift, you see the problem here? once you are in the rift, if you are alone you have to either put a cataclysm( not always wanted) or cast surge if there is at least 1 enemy in the rift and send him to the other plane to bring his friends to you. This makes no sense, you are the master of the rift, how cant you bring a single mob to your plain if you wish to wiouth casting cataclysm or getting out of the rift? My sugestion is to keep the aoe banish( this is so good, it should remain) and birng back the exchange of plane, if an enemy is in a plane it just takes him to the other( with the knock down of course), that means in a group with mixed enemys, the normal plane ones will go to the rift and the rift ones to the normal plane, so you have control over planes in both planes.

 

And now rift sourge: first, its suposed to do dmg when a surged enemy dies, but i cant seem to get it to trigger, or the dmg its just null. Now, the main issue: enemys leaving the rift bring other enemys to the rift, sounds good, sounds as if it will work KILLING enemys, but no, you have to BANISH surged enemys to get the efect banish should have at is base(as i described earyer). In its current status this ability could be incorporated to banish and this is one of the mayor problems have the old limbo: redundant abilitys. On the other hand, this could be perfetly fine(and here is my sugestion to fix it) if when a enemy is surged+ banish OR killed it left(or explote into) a mini cataclysm, with all of its implications, makin efecctive zones you have total control over the because of stasis.This would mean that you can banish certain groups and expand upon then, and if you see a stream of enemys coming at you just make a full sice cataclysm or put a mini one for more specific zone control(the mini cataclyms should have 50-75% dmg of the big one) and the best part is that you are no longer limited to the area that provides cataclysm and get something that its missing from its current state: the ability to control a zone and still being hable to afect zones of the other plane( ej: stay in cataclysm in a elevated superficie and bring the enemys you want to your plane.)

[Hjalmthrimul]

I would give up just about any advantage to return banish to a simple state toggle.  If that means losing the AoE capability, sure.  Losing the damage?  Hell yeah, it's not strong enough to be used for balancing.

I would put up with losing an ability slot to have a "shove away from my plane" and "drag into my plane" ability pair.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Hjalmthrimul said:

I would give up just about any advantage to return banish to a simple state toggle.  If that means losing the AoE capability, sure.  Losing the damage?  Hell yeah, it's not strong enough to be used for balancing.

I would put up with losing an ability slot to have a "shove away from my plane" and "drag into my plane" ability pair.

just dont take my time stop away T_T 

or my slide i love it

Edited March 25, 2017 by hazerddex

[Hjalmthrimul]

8 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

just dont take my time stop away T_T 

I love the time stop.  As much as I miss old rift surge damage, Stasis finally makes cataclysm a useful tool to have.  Though if we're devoting two powers to one-time rift state changes I'd want them next to each other.  So move stasis to 3 and have Eject and Draw In on 1 and 2.

Edited March 25, 2017 by Hjalmthrimul

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Hjalmthrimul said:

I love the time stop.  As much as I miss old rift surge damage, Stasis finally makes cataclysm a useful tool to have.  Though if we're devoting two powers to one-time rift state changes I'd want them next to each other.  So move stasis to 3 and have Exile and Draw In on 1 and 2.

my only problem with the rework is the rift surge i love everything else about the kit but the new surge does not seem to do anything 

the new banish is for risk reward and makes sense the way they did it

Edited March 25, 2017 by hazerddex

[Leavith]

The rework is not bad is just that anyone who has played limbo and was looking forward to using him just has had their playstile disrupted...Is like we are not in Kansas anymore

 

[Rhundis]

I'm ok with his changes except for banish not affecting cross rift. Also if they made banish tap hit one enemy, hold hit multiple it would be great.

[Kriss941]

After playing around a bit I still find banish clunky and awkward, but there doesn't seem to be any limit on the amount of enemies you stop time for which means a range duration build seems to be the way to go... I found the most effective way to play now to be Enter Rift > Stop Time > Cast Cataclysm > Activate Rift Surge (with augment for increased dmg) > Shoot all enemies > Disable time stop > watch everything die

[General_Durandal]

Limbo 2.0

 

Welp, they did it, completely ignored almost everything us Limbo veterans said.

 

They weeknd his passive, now it just give a slower energy regen, with extra energy regen for every death in the rift. Rubbish.

His old passive literally made him better in every way while in the rft, AND he had a better energy regen.

 

Rolling shifts between the rift.

In a fast paced game where maneuverability is key, that is just rubbish.

 

First power is now ALWAYS an AoE, this is going to get many hostages killed.

Rubbish. Could have put in a tap and hold function, but nope.

 

300 projectile limit in the statis, that's kinda alot, but there are weapons that can break that in seconds.

but at least it doesn't disable your powers if it gets broken. (right?)

 

Surge, no longer has the damage multiplyer... wooo... utter garbage.

At least it's not mentioned if it still has it.

 

Cataclysm, okay, it's exactly the same, but,

the damage it deals on collapse, now scales based on how many enemies are in it?

I've never used it for it's damage, i used cataclysm like an AoE banish for my team if we ever needed it, which we never did.

I also used it to protect unmoving defense targets.

Should have instead, of dealing big damage, staggered enemies every few seconds that are inside it.

Or something useful, OTHER than just damage.

 

[GrimAtrament]

no the rift slide works really well with replacment roll you can do it just as quickly as a roll. your not supose to be in the rift 100% of the time with perma inviciblity that was the problem with the old limbo. and with the new roll you dont spend seconds going back into the rift each time. leaving you open to getting shot dead.

banish first of all i dont think de like it being used to make hostage or the defense target untouchable so even if they reverted it to the old banish it probably would end up not having the ability to work on them. only problem is how you cant banish when inside the rift but this could be seen as balancing keeping you from staying in the rift all game.

time stop is his best ability now 

i agree with surge it does not do anything any more.

cataclysm is the same but with the time stop it makes it a very good shield now since all enemies entering it get frozen in place.

Edited March 25, 2017 by hazerddex

[Hjalmthrimul]

13 minutes ago, hazerddex said:

the new banish is for risk reward and makes sense the way they did it

I would agree with you if Limbo had any way to deal with that risk.  But unfortunately, having less effective HP than Banshee means that rift is his only defense.  Risk/reward is a good mechanic only if there's actually a choice involved.  I've been trying to test abilities on level 20 enemies, but even with full survival mods, dashing out of rift to cast banish is a good way to get killed.  Doing it at level 35 is out of the question.

[GrimAtrament]

1 minute ago, Hjalmthrimul said:

I would agree with you if Limbo had any way to deal with that risk.  But unfortunately, having less effective HP than Banshee means that rift is his only defense.  Risk/reward is a good mechanic only if there's actually a choice involved.  I've been trying to test abilities on level 20 enemies, but even with full survival mods, dashing out of rift to cast banish is a good way to get killed.  Doing it at level 35 is out of the question.

you know you can dash into the rift while casting banish at the same time right? 

[Rhundis]

1 minute ago, Hjalmthrimul said:

I would agree with you if Limbo had any way to deal with that risk.  But unfortunately, having less effective HP than Banshee means that rift is his only defense.  Risk/reward is a good mechanic only if there's actually a choice involved.  I've been trying to test abilities on level 20 enemies, but even with full survival mods, dashing out of rift to cast banish is a good way to get killed.  Doing it at level 35 is out of the question.

Isn't Quick Thinking a thing? I mean you passively regen energy in the rift, plus get 10 energy per kill in the rift so it's not like he's starving for energy.

[GrimAtrament]

Just now, Rhundis said:

Isn't Quick Thinking a thing? I mean you passively regen energy in the rift, plus get 10 energy per kill in the rift so it's not like he's starving for energy.

^

[Buzkyl]

I don't believe anyone has said it yet but, the new scaling makes cataclsym hit like a freight train now,

[Levanthan]

An update to his skill tooltips that adds the range for Banish's AOE, Stasis' enemy and projectile cap, and Cataclysm's damage on close would be really appreciated. I think a bigger issue with many of these reworks is a lack of instant in game notification on what the skills do or scale with. If people didn't check the U20 notes(which is likely for players post U20), or the wiki after it gets updated, they wouldn't know that banish affects multiple targets or the exact radius. This is a big problem in my opinion.