[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[Xekrin]

5 hours ago, (Xbox One)Cash201293 said:

I like to think Limbo needs this since his 4th is technically is only dmg ability and enemies dont take increased dmg by default from rift surge anymore.

The 10% health of enemies damage should at the very least scale with power strength.  Allowing people to run with negative strength and maxed range and insta nuke any level enemy is just a teensy bit OP.

It doesn't even require input from the player like Saryn or Equinox, double tap 4 and kaboom.  I guess Limbo is effectively p442win now?

[Xekrin]

6 hours ago, Betcha said:

lol in pve game acting like its some pvp game.

lol acting like balance doesn't matter in pve

[Volinus7]

heh low standard tests...

Lvl 135 Napalm Nullifier or Sentients are more acceptable.

Edited April 3, 2017 by Volinus7

[(PSN)VaDeR81]

Why is this test constantly shown against corpus?? What about heavy gunners, bombards?? Octavia's 1 does the same thing to those crewman. Her 1. 

Edited April 3, 2017 by (PS4)VaDeR81

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I'm glad we have Limbo's power. It makes higher level mission actually be playable from a DPS approach instead of stealth and tanking. His Cataclysm doesn't need a nerf, it just needs a set up. I would like the idea that the Cataclysm damage only be applied to enemies affected by Rift Surge. Non Surged enemies only get the 300 impact damage from rift transition. That's it.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

Go try it on Bombards or HGs or even Eximus units. Every time I see vids like these its always Corpus. Of course its gonna hit hard, they have shields and Cataclysm scales off of shields.

Here's an actual test.

 

Edited April 3, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[YagoXiten]

1 hour ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I'm glad we have Limbo's power. It makes higher level mission actually be playable from a DPS approach instead of stealth and tanking. His Cataclysm doesn't need a nerf, it just needs a set up. I would like the idea that the Cataclysm damage only be applied to enemies affected by Rift Surge. Non Surged enemies only get the 300 impact damage from rift transition. That's it.

This, at most, requires Limbo to press 4 3 4 rather than 4 4 and does not fix the fact that it is an incredibly non-interactive way to kill an entire tileset.

It needs its damage nerfed.

If it were up to me, I'd change the damage formula such that it does the plane transition damage, then the base damage of Cataclysm, and then does the scaling damage based upon the missing health, rather than the current health, of all units inside. The result would be that Cataclysm would function as a potent nuke to finish off enemies that did not quite die from the imminent damage you set up during your Stasis.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

8 minutes ago, YagoXiten said:

This, at most, requires Limbo to press 4 3 4 rather than 4 4 and does not fix the fact that it is an incredibly non-interactive way to kill an entire tileset.

It needs its damage nerfed.

If it were up to me, I'd change the damage formula such that it does the plane transition damage, then the base damage of Cataclysm, and then does the scaling damage based upon the missing health, rather than the current health, of all units inside. The result would be that Cataclysm would function as a potent nuke to finish off enemies that did not quite die from the imminent damage you set up during your Stasis.

His 3 only has a 25 meter range at base with Limbo as the epicenter. It doesn't instantly effect everything in the rift. Also I think Rift Surge requires line of sight. You'll need to run around and spread the Rift Surge effect before you close your 4.

[PsiWarp]

IMO, make Stasis gradually slow enemies and their projectiles to a halt over a few seconds, and adjust the damage formula on Cataclysm.

Instantly freezing enemies for 74+ seconds is hard CC gone overboard (how are non-nullifier enemies supposed to fight back). 10% of current remaining shields + HP still encourages spamming since you're stripping a percentage of their max shield/HP pools away with each cast, can't get damage better than that bar 1HKO.

[(PSN)VaDeR81]

Case closed. 

[Me.KayOh]

yea i've only seen cataclysm being spammed horribly by players so maybe that alone needs a slight change.

[Nez-Kal]

4 hours ago, ChameleonBro said:

Let me tell you why you are not completely right

1. He is the best reviver but if there are nullifiers around you are more than likely screwed unless the teammate manages to get rid of the bubble, and you can't cause you are in the rift. This is something he could always do so it stayed, nothing changed here.

2. Yes, currently he is the best defense frame, though that makes you switch between planes to do different things which requires more things to do. A refreshing sight to see.

3. Yes he is practically immortal, but you can't do S#&$ if you do what you just said. "Just press shift", that is putting things out of context, sure you can't die but you can't do anything either. It is his main mechanic and was from the get go, the only difference being he can do it now with the press of a different button

4. Cataclysm is NOT as strong as people lead on to. It scales by doing damage based on 10% of all enemies CURRENT health and SHIELDS, NOT armor which is important. He can take down trash mobs. Especially the Corpus and the infested, but anything with armor will nullify most of the damage barely taking out trash mobs. It also does 10% of the CURRENT hp and shields which means it will be significantly weaker the more you use it. Using an ability on low level missions doesn't make it broken. If you want to nerf the damage of Cataclysm than you might as well nerfr Banshees Sound Quacke, Mesa's Peacemaker etc, Having abilities scale is a great thing and if you noticed, DE has been pushing scaling for quite a bit. Nekros rework - scales, Nidus - scales, Octavia - scales, Limbo rework - scales. I would not be surprised at all if future frames and reworks do the same thing, it is necessary in a game like Warframe which suffers from powercreep.

 

Cataclysm used to be a very underwhelming ability which only sent an area to the rift, damage was pathetic and didn't have anything going for it, it was suicide. Now it feels like an actual ability worth of being a 4th ability. Players who build for nuking lose out on the rest of Limbos kit which in my eyes is a fair trade off, as in why the hell would you throw away everything you have for a nuke.

Thank you. Very well said.

 

Limbo is a master of Time and Space. You can adjust your build, however, to make him a master of one.

 

Adjust him for Time, and you have a Stasis in a small plane that lasts forever and a half, and makes Defense type missions a cinch, but you lose out on Space (Range) and can't cast your other abilities very far.

 

Adjust him for Space and you have a mega Cataclysm that can one shot Cannon Fodder type enemies over a wide area, but you lose out on Time (Duration) and none of you other abilities will last more than 10 seconds or so.

 

And that's also another important note: "Limbo can one shot Cannon Fodder Enemies." Anything higher than a Lancer or Crewman, and you're going to have a little more trouble. (Recasting over and over can kill them, but it's less effective each time, and saps your energy pool significantly doing this.)

If we're going to Nerf someone cause their ability can scale and single shot multiple Cannon Fodder, then we're going to have to Nerf A LOT of other Frames as well. (Looking at you, stacking Nidus)

[shut]

It seems really weird that Limbo is now a nuke frame, despite the devs saying for years now that they want to avoid unengaging press-4-to-win gameplay.

I think it would be cool if his 4's damage didn't have the damage scaling thing (since it hard-counters both Corpus and Infested as long as you pick off the Disruptors/Healers every now and then), and if his 3 were given some love (since it currently sucks without the augment). Maybe just bake Rift Torrent into Rift Surge's current functionality and give RT a new effect.

That way, Limbo scales much better against Grineer, and he can still instagib Corpus/Infested just fine-- he just needs to use his weapons to do it, instead of looking in their general direction and double-tapping 4.

Edited April 4, 2017 by SortaRandom

[Xana_Skullsunder]

I particularly want a way to better track Banished enemies as Limbo, as the following situation keeps happening to me:

"Oh, hey, a Hyekka Master. I should Banish her before that flamethrower hurts my teammates!"
"Oh, I banished her cats too. Oh well, I'll just nuke them quickly."
Then 1 or 2 escape and attempt to chew on a teammate and get in the way, and said teammate, unless they have a good damage ability, cannot do anything about it until Banish wears off. And I can't do anything about it because I didn't see it escape and thus am not on the look-out for Banished enemies anymore.

Edited April 4, 2017 by XanaSkullpulper

[YagoXiten]

17 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

His 3 only has a 25 meter range at base with Limbo as the epicenter. It doesn't instantly effect everything in the rift. Also I think Rift Surge requires line of sight. You'll need to run around and spread the Rift Surge effect before you close your 4.

25 meters is a huge base range. It goes up to a maximum of 62.5 (which there is very good reason to do so, as Strength is largely irrelevant to Limbo). That's insane. I do not think it requires LoS, though I've yet to test that. And remember that Rift Surge will spread from any enemies that die with the Rift Surge buff. Your suggestion would change very little.

13 minutes ago, PsiWarp said:

IMO, make Stasis gradually slow enemies and their projectiles to a halt over a few seconds, and adjust the damage formula on Cataclysm.

Instantly freezing enemies for 74+ seconds is hard CC gone overboard (how are non-nullifier enemies supposed to fight back). 10% of current remaining shields + HP still encourages spamming since you're stripping a percentage of their max shield/HP pools away with each cast, can't get damage better than that bar 1HKO.

Stasis is fine. Yes, it halts enemies for a very long amount of time, but it also prevents those enemies from being dispatched without being in the Rift, and even then powers and melee damage are the only types of damage that can interact immediately with them. Rift Surge, Banish, and Cataclysm naturally pull more and more enemies into the Rift, whether you intend to or not, and this can make using Stasis a very dangerous game. It is very easy to make a mistake and mismanage it, and even if you use it perfectly, it matters very little. There are far more powerful CC abilities in the game that are far more convenient to use. See: Irradiating Disarm. The issue with CC in this game is not necessarily that it makes us infallible. It is that it makes us infallible and removes all meaningful interaction. In no way shape or form does Stasis remove meaningful player interaction.

[Mu_Gera]

A flat percentage on individual enemy health instead of total enemy health would allow cataclysm to still scale and not do absurd damage.

[KisaPrime]

Not crazy about the 16th notes and it tends to make things sound noisy. 

[Sakatchi]

9 hours ago, SIMULOR_CANCER_RACE said:

Limbo need do be nerfed asap.

Some footage showing why:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Corpus dont scale as hard as armored things do. Try something not corpus and see if hes sitll op or not.

Even then, there is nothing wrong with a frame that's able to take on high leveled stuff successfully.

Edited April 4, 2017 by Sakatchi
I just found out Limbo's 4 scales off of sheilds, so these vidos dont prove anything other than level 145 Corpus techs have a lot of shields. Go do this on some bombards and heavys if you want to prove your point.

[PsiWarp]

31 minutes ago, XanaSkullpulper said:

I particularly want a way to better track Banished enemies as Limbo, as the following situation keeps happening to me:

"Oh, hey, a Hyekka Master. I should Banish her before that flamethrower hurts my teammates!"
"Oh, I banished her cats too. Oh well, I'll just nuke them quickly."
Then 1 or 2 escape and attempt to chew on a teammate and get in the way, and said teammate, unless they have a good damage ability, cannot do anything about it until Banish wears off. And I can't do anything about it because I didn't see it escape and thus am not on the look-out for Banished enemies anymore.

You know what would be really nice? For Limbo, an icon at the top-right when anything is under Banish or Rift Surge's banish, with the remaining time on the latest enemy and a counter at the top-right of the icon to track the number of enemies still in the rift. Octavia has this with her Metronome buff icons both showing the %'s and timer.

Also, maybe Rift Sight from Zenurik as a default Rift Plane feature. So you can see enemies in the rift through walls.

[Drador-An]

Feels like there are a couple things that need to be changed to help the clunkyness.

Banish should banish people no matter what state limbo's in. Maybe incorporate tap for single, hold multi for the ability as well.

I've noticed while playing that stasis freezing bullets is more of a detriment than a benefit to limbo and his allies.

Lastly Cataclysm not shrinking anymore might help. Don't know if that would change much.

Feel like those are the main problems he has, maybe also rift walking while not holding a direction changes his state without the dash.

Otherwise he is still very fun to play.

 

[-ODIN-Charizard_Prime]

This is completely silly, when Limbo rework came out, people started complaining about how his combos and kit was just entirely cumbersome and required too much effort to use. Now people are complaining about how Limbo has become too over powered and are crying for him to get hit by the nerf bat, and then what? He'll end up in a state where his most useful ability is to freeze enemies and force team mates to go into melee IF they're in the rift to get kills.

Things you should consider about Cataclysm is that it's scaling is based off of the accumulated totals of CURRENT health and shields of enemies inside Cataclysm. You should also consider is that armor does mitigate the damage dealt by Cataclysm, both the opening and collapse.

This means that Cataclysm:

• Is not as great when used on mobs of enemies consecutively;
• Cataclysm is not good at dealing with stragglers and;
• Cataclysm is not great with dealing with the Grineer (in comparison to the Corpus and Infested).

IMO, Warframes should have SOME type of scaling innately built into their kit and that shown with the release of the newer frames Octavia and Nidus, both in the form of their first abilities, as well as some reworks. Examples of the reworks or Warframes with other innate scaling potential are Mag (Magnetize), Limbo (Cataclysm), Ash (Blade Storm + Melee Combo Counter), Equinox (Mend and Maim) and Saryn (Spore + Poison stacking in mobs).

Anyways, the other Factions also have their own way defending themselves against Cataclysm (Grineer: Armor; Infested: Ancients; Corpus: Nullifiers) and exploiting Limbo's fragility when he leaves the rift due to Cataclysm, since Limbo's kit FORCES him to deal with enemies on the same plane.

[makutaros]

Dear (DE) Daniels & (DE) Team,

Thank you very much for this amazing kit!! 😱😍😘🔥🌋

No lie when I first played Limbo (pre-rework) he felt clunky like his kit was put together quickly with an idea utilizing the rift plane.  It was like cramming for a test the night before and barely scraping by with a "ok you pass" grade.  Even after an edited build from YouTuber:  Frozenball let's max series I still felt I was, "middle management of the rift" (aggp, mogamu, & tactical potatoe) rather than "THE Master of the Rift".

Banishing one by one even for a single high value target like ancient healer in a cluster proved frustrating.  Toggling for even a second to pop in OR out of the rift left us wide open.  Rift Surge was awesome for dishing out damage (still is with rift torrent) but couldn't take it.  Finally Cataclysm was like a big fart bubble that no one wanted to be in.

Now he plays like a godly game changing warframe in those "Oh shhhiiiIIIIIITTTTT!!😢😢😢" moments.  Dodge/Roll into the rift to ghost through damage as if it were nothing like Obito Uchiha from Naruto Shippuden.  Banish a high value target who is shielded by hordes of enemies.  Stop time like Jotaro Kujo to hail a storm of bullets or obliterate with melee.  Rift Surge/Torrent with Stasis inside a cataclysm makes me feels like a god of war toying with lives...poor computer generated A.I. fake lives.  Finally Cataclysm at max range can literally nuke, vanish, DESTROY etc an entire horde of targets leaving only the heavy units that a team can easily clean up.

Now Limbo feels like a true genuine and thee only Master of the Rift.  Not so much in the material plane versus the rift like intended as this warframe's title implies.  Limbo now owns the Rift and its powers.  This rework is an outstanding accomplishment by Digital Extremes second only to the Excalibur rework.  Thank you very much again.

Sincerly your a new Limbo main player, 

Makutaros

 

Edited April 4, 2017 by makutaros
Proof reading

[1tsyB1tsyN1nj4]

10 hours ago, ArchPhaeton said:

Ruining CoD-minded people's fun*

Me? I love when someone else wants to do all the work and I enjoy the quick, easy affinity and loot rain. Specially when most of the time squad members are completely clueless and I end up carrying them.

That's you. I actually enjoy shooting things in the face until they die, so I don't enjoy WoF or Spamulor's killing everything and letting everyone else go for a stroll behind them. If I didn't want to play the game, I could just watch TV or go outside and take a walk

[(PSN)psycofang]

1 hour ago, Sakatchi said:

Corpus dont scale as hard as armored things do. Try something not corpus and see if hes sitll op or not.

Even then, there is nothing wrong with a frame that's able to take on high leveled stuff successfully.

 

They use only corpus because its easy to blow the information far out of proportion. If you put in orokin class enemies or grineer its less of an issue and actually is negatively impacted by repeated mashing.

[Teshin_Dax]

I've looked into this!

Nothing is OP!
Limbo CAN'T kill armored lvl 145 enemies (nidus / excal are way better)

Yes, he can kill corpus tech .. But guess what? They are weak!
Even a Supra can kill those easily.

Need an example?