[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

5 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Well before you needed a huge bunch of efficiency & strength & range, now you just need range.

It used to be a very dedicated build only for nuke, now you can play whatever you want AND be a nuker (even though it's better with range)

Not only that. The reworked Limbo actually gains energy by nuking. It takes 100 energy to cast Cataclysm. If it kills 20 enemies, Limbo gets 200 energy back so there's a net gain. I think this is why people spam this ability because... they can literally spam this ability.

[aligatorno]

Just now, Buzkyl said:

Corrosive Projection.

Also to simple change would be to Allow Cataclysm damage to scale with how long it's been opened it can start off at 1% and scale to 10% over a period of time. 

With a full team ready for it, I agree, but I was talking about normal situation when most of the time you won't be in that kind of squad or you`ll be solo. 

[Trichouette]

Just now, Buzkyl said:

Corrosive Projection.

Also to simple change would be to Allow Cataclysm damage to scale with how long it's been opened it can start off at 1% and scale to 10% over a period of time. 

+1 for corrosive projection, one of the only worth it aura in the game that actually remove this stupid scaling armor.

 

That would fix the "it's spammable" aspect... But it's still a totally OP nuke

[Cat__Nap]

6 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

 

Uh... Actually she IS op, and she CAN spam it. You just have to kill 2 or 3 enemies and you've enough stacked damage to blow up the map.

Press 4 > OS some enemies with a well placed shot a shotgun with punchthrough > press 4 > congratulation

You're talking very high levels, when enemies have a ridiculous amount of health. This is where the scaling bit comes in. And no, you can't press 4 repeatedly. You have to actually kill things - and the way you're meaning, you have to kill very SPECIFIC mobs. Killing just 2-3 of any kind of mob won't do much damage.

If she was OP, more people would complain about her. How often do you see people complain about Equinox? Hardly ever. People are just happy to see at least her and Nidus scale to level 100+ enemies. So why completely remove a newly added scaling ability?

People couldn't spam Cataclysm pre-rework. Now they can. That's the issue here. It actually took a lot of energy before, but in its current state, you can legit just solo DPS Bere with no EV or buff because all Limbo needs is Range. Could maybe make the % HP scale off of Strength to make one more stat necessary (up to its current max % hp ofc); it's a little ridiculous that all he needs is Range and nothing else.

[Trichouette]

You should write even clearer, that way we can't even read your post

4 minutes ago, Mypi said:

2- It's too slow/difficult to see which enemies/allies are in the rift.

Here I can only agree, they toned down the rift visual effect, as a result we can barely notice it.

Very often i'm wondering if I'm rifted or not and it's when I get killed that I figure out I wasn't

 

[Buzkyl]

4 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

+1 for corrosive projection, one of the only worth it aura in the game that actually remove this stupid scaling armor.

 

That would fix the "it's spammable" aspect... But it's still a totally OP nuke

And that is bad why? Through that reasoning, Peacemaker, EB and Maim should also be nerfed. because they too can nuke mobs at high levels.

Cataclysm should be a nuke, but it shouldn't be a spammable one. 

 

[Trichouette]

Just now, Buzkyl said:

And that is bad why? Through that reasoning, Peacemaker, EB and Maim should also be nerfed. because they too can nuke mobs at high levels.

Cataclysm should be a nuke, but it shouldn't be a spammable one. 

 

Maybe because mesa is supposed to be a damage dealer and she's actually vulnerable while in peacemaker, which is a high DPS ability not really a nuke.

I'm guessing EB means exalted blade, to which i'll answer "excalibur can't hit everything in a 80m radius with his sword", and maim is actually pretty OP but at least the damage scale with the distance

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

16 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

You're assuming that this is a fact on PC, it isn't. I have regularly run into people who do not speak English.

But yes, how dare I try and push such a terrible agenda. Wanting simple tips so that people understand how to get out of the rift. Oh woe is me. Better sue me.

And you thus assumed that the whole world plays on american servers? Now that's ridiculous.

 

They were spanish i assume? Or rather young maybe? Exceptations to this sheme. Don't worry about them. Europe DOES have individuall pairing and chatservers, even on PC. Those people you encountered probably joined the US servers for cheaper trading or for more active servers without having mastered the language. One does have to be rather experienced to even consider doing this tho. They sure won't need your advice.

Edited April 6, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[aligatorno]

6 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Maybe because mesa is supposed to be a damage dealer and she's actually vulnerable while in peacemaker, which is a high DPS ability not really a nuke.

I'm guessing EB means exalted blade, to which i'll answer "excalibur can't hit everything in a 80m radius with his sword", and maim is actually pretty OP but at least the damage scale with the distance

She is with only Peacemaker, but she can also have a 95% damage reduction on at the same time with her third ability, and she can protect herself from melee decently and close guns with her 2. She's a tank, a dps and a decent cc-er. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by aligatorno

[Trichouette]

Just now, aligatorno said:

She is with only Peacemaker, but she can also have a 95% damage reduction on at the same time with her third ability. 

Yeah and then she get one-shot by a scorpion because she can't target close enemies and her shield doesn't protect her from melee enemies.

Meanwhile limbo is completely immortal in his rift because of stasis and he can hit everything in a 80m radius.

[(PSN)scinut71]

Please no. That idea is bad. Not refunding energy for kills caused by collapsing Cataclysm is enough. No one wants an ability that costs you energy after it ends. It will set a dangerous precedent for future reworks.

[DeMonkey]

7 minutes ago, (PS4)CoolD2108 said:

And you thus assumed that the whole world plays on american servers? Now that's ridiculous.

 

They were spanish i assume? Or rather young maybe? Exceptations to this sheme. Don't worry about them. Europe DOES have individuall pairing and chatservers, even on PC. Those people you encountered probably joined the US servers for cheaper trading or for more active servers without having mastered the language. One does have to be rather experienced to even consider doing this tho. They sure won't need your advice.

O.o

What are you on about? How does US servers even come into this?

Seriously, you're just making things up now.

Buh bye.

P.S. Don't assume things and base your post on assumptions, whats the saying? To assume makes an &#! out of you and me? 

[PrVonTuckIII]

I don't think you should remove the scaling on any ability, especially Cataclysm. For that matter, all damage abilities should scale.

The problem is how it scales. It takes 10% of the total health/shields of the enemies inside Cataclysm. For this reason, it can easily oneshot enemies, as long as they don't have too much armour, and there are enough enemies inside the bubble.

How would I suggest this be fixed? Keep the 10% scaling. However, instead of dealing damage based on the total health pool, do it on the strongest health pool. That is, Cataclysm will deal it's damage, plus 10% of the health/shields of the enemy with the highest health/shields when the bubble goes off.

For example, if I catch four Lancers, and one Heavy Gunner, the bubble will deal 10% of the HevGun's health to all the enemies in the bubble. This way, it stops dealing insane damage, but still deals enough damage. Sorta like Trinity's EV.

Edited April 6, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[PrVonTuckIII]

I'm going to copy-paste my idea from another thread:

I don't think you should remove the scaling on any ability, especially Cataclysm. For that matter, all damage abilities should scale.

The problem is how it scales. It takes 10% of the total health/shields of the enemies inside Cataclysm. For this reason, it can easily oneshot enemies, as long as they don't have too much armour, and there are enough enemies inside the bubble.

How would I suggest this be fixed? Keep the 10% scaling. However, instead of dealing damage based on the total health pool, do it on the strongest health pool. That is, Cataclysm will deal it's damage, plus 10% of the health/shields of the enemy with the highest health/shields when the bubble goes off.

For example, if I catch four Lancers, and one Heavy Gunner, the bubble will deal 10% of the HevGun's health to all the enemies in the bubble. This way, it stops dealing insane damage, but still deals enough damage. Sorta like Trinity's EV.

Edited April 6, 2017 by PrVonTuckIII

[aligatorno]

12 minutes ago, Trichouette said:

Yeah and then she get one-shot by a scorpion because she can't target close enemies and her shield doesn't protect her from melee enemies.

Meanwhile limbo is completely immortal in his rift because of stasis and he can hit everything in a 80m radius.

Shooting Gallery + Shatter Shield and she's pretty close to unkillable because not only does SG makes the enemie's guns stop working , it also stuns the melee ones. You'll get the one bullet from time to time, or a swing, but if built for range you can solve all of her problems. A lot of people build her only for her Peacemaker and forget about her other abilities that make her one of the best tanks in the game. 

Edited April 6, 2017 by aligatorno

[devildevil21]

Well, I, as many other dedicated limbo mains who used to play him alot before the rework and after the rework, came up with one idea to "improve" his skills.

More precisely, his 2nd skill, stasis.

 

So what I'm suggesting is: Remember ivara and vauban's skill where you can rotate the effects of the skill? Now, imagine it on limbo's stasis.

 

You might be wondering: "Okay, but what effects? Ivara has different arrows and vauban has different mines, but limbo just freezes time."

So, with this idea, limbo can rotate between 2 effects of the ability. This effect will affect stasis no matter if it is activated or not.

 

So, these are the 2 effects:

 

1st - Stasis affects every enemy and projectile. Normal stasis  we currently event. Symbol in the stasis (when we rotate) can be the infinite symbol or an enemy and an arrow/bullet next to it to represent the effect.

 

2nd - Stasis affects only enemies. Bullets and every projectile can still move in the rift, only thing is that enemies are frozen in time.

 

Reason I came up with this idea is that many are complaining that stasis goes against team play. And that also it kind of forces you into melee, unless you know how many bullets or arrows it'll take to kill the enemy, without "Underkilling" it or "overkilling" it.

 

So, with this improvement, limbo can use stasis to stun enemies and projectiles (in the rift of course), switch to the 2nd effect of stasis, allowing projectiles to strike without "waking up" enemies. Or you can just set the stasis to freeze enemies and shoot them normally.

 

This "fix" will also help those who are constantly affected by ragdolls. I mean, who played limbo and didn't get pissed off cause we shot an enemy while in stasis, when the bullets went away the enemy "fell" and the bullets went above him... doing no damage!

 

And this is it, my entire idea. What do you say? 

 

Got any improvements to it? Do you like it? If not, please share your opinion below.

 

Best Regards,

devildevil21

[devildevil21]

To be honest, I don't mind if the cataclysm damage goes away...

 

getting a bit tired of using cataclysm + stasis + rift surge, then I cancel cataclysm so that I can go inside the rift and kill the enemies without screwing my allies, but instead, when I cancel cataclysm I get a huge BOOM and every enemy rift surged dies.

 

What I don't want them to nerf is: +10 energy for each enemy killed inside the rift and the "spammability" of it. Cause I use it many times to do cataclysm + rift surge to get enemies in the rift, and if they increasse the cost or change it so you can't spam it... will ruin limbo's entire purpose.

 

Limbo's purpose is to bring enemies into the rift and vice-versa, to manipulate the battlefield. If we can't spam cataclysm, we might get screwed since banish is our only other tool and it screwes over allies, since they also get banished when we banish an enemy.

Edited April 6, 2017 by devildevil21
typo

[Roachester]

Yeah, that would be completely and utterly broken.
It's honestly bad enough that you can melee during Stasis without restriction, but allowing you to freeze enemies without freezing your projectiles would essentially make you God. Also, literally nobody would use the 1st effect.

[Xekrin]

34 minutes ago, PrVonTuckIII said:

However, instead of dealing damage based on the total health pool, do it on the strongest health pool.

I think it should still work off all enemies, as that how is power structure works now.  Multiple banish, more enemies in rift does more damage with augment, etc.  Limiting to just the high feels too obtuse and goes against the grain.

I do however think the scaling should also scale, off power strength.  Nuking strength in exchange for range and suffering no penalty for doing so is just utterly ridiculous.  It should start out at 2% or so and scale up from there.  The higher your strength the higher the damage, isn't that how the stat is supposed to work anyway?

Making it a flat % completely ignores the entire concept of building stats a specific way.  No one (fine, a few maybe) even bothers with strength on their nukeclysm builds, since superior range brings in more enemies therefore more damage.

It rather feels like people are avoiding this particular subject because they want the ability to keep range minmaxed which is just sad.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Xekrin

[TheNextDecade]

This is basically the equivalent of the game not telling you that you can shoot stuff, not even in trailers. Or what button it is. And placing the button on something like Delete. That's not "not doing everything for you". That's "not bothering to explain the basic concepts that are nigh-impossible to figure out yourself".

Edited April 6, 2017 by TheNextDecade

[devildevil21]

8 minutes ago, Roachester said:

Yeah, that would be completely and utterly broken.
It's honestly bad enough that you can melee during Stasis without restriction, but allowing you to freeze enemies without freezing your projectiles would essentially make you God. Also, literally nobody would use the 1st effect.

well, it's just sort of a middle ground for DE if DE decides to listen to the complains that "stasis goes against teamplay".

 

I to be honest am happy with how stasis works right now, but if DE ever decides to change it, atleast here's an idea ^^

Edited April 6, 2017 by devildevil21

[PrVonTuckIII]

8 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

I think it should still work off all enemies, as that how is power structure works now.  Multiple banish, more enemies in rift does more damage with augment, etc.  Limiting to just the high feels too obtuse and goes against the grain.

I do however think the scaling should also scale, off power strength.  Nuking strength in exchange for range and suffering no penalty for doing so is just utterly ridiculous.  It should start out at 2% or so and scale up from there.  The higher your strength the higher the damage, isn't that how the stat is supposed to work anyway?

Making it a flat % completely ignores the entire concept of building stats a specific way.  No one (fine, a few maybe) even bothers with strength on their nukeclysm builds, since superior range brings in more enemies therefore more damage.

It rather feels like people are avoiding this particular subject because they want the ability to keep range minmaxed which is just sad.

That's not a bad idea at all. It would certainly allow for the current 'nuking' while still ensuring that there is some sacrifice for it. I do agree with the sentiment on flat % scaling as well.

I honestly don't think many people thought about it, not that they hate it.

[Kei-Inc.]

With cata, I also think they need to get rid of the 10 energy regen per kill, making it less spamable because it causes infinite nuking

[Kei-Inc.]

Get rid of the energy regen when killing enemies in the rift to help balance cataclysm a little

[Xekrin]

3 minutes ago, Kei-Inc. said:

With cata, I also think they need to get rid of the 10 energy regen per kill, making it less spamable because it causes infinite nuking

yeah or make that scale too, with efficiency and/or powerstrength.  It should be like 0.5 energy at base or something.