[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[ApocalypticFlameFury]

14 hours ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I just realized why the damage from Limbo's Cataclysm CANNOT be removed or weakened. Its because unlike other warframes who have totally normal CCs, Limbo's CC stops him from using guns. He is virtually restricted to melee. So if the killing potential of his Cataclysm was weakened or removed, the warframe's offensive performance becomes below average due to having abilities that restrict weapon use.

But then someone would say, "fix Stasis so it doesn't stop bullets" and then all it accomplishes is have the nerf ire be focused on Stasis. Stasis would get nerfed and then people would say nerf his passives because he has 2 and most warframes only have 1 passive blah blah blah.

By this point, I don't think he's gonna get nerfed if he can be nerfed to begin with because of how interdependent his powers are. Its been 10 updates since his release and the only thing changed about Limbo is the in game wording of his Rift Surge ability.

This is actually.....extremely true. Because his Banish and other abilities only help him do tactical weapon damage on enemies in the Rift. Now that I think about it. the damage they added for Cataclysm to scale is to compensate for his new Rift Surge NOT adding more damage for enemies in the Rift like the old Limbo. The majority of his damage comes from Rift Torrent, which sacrifices a mod slot. Most other frames don't depend on an augment for doing more damage or being more effective in combat. None of his abilities actually do good damage EXCEPT for his Cataclysm. Smart move by DE. So now that I put 2 and 2 together, nerfing Cataclysm would be illogical. Limbo was always planned as a solo frame, and I guess they didn't expect people to complain. But the thing is......players can simply adapt to Limbo's style, just like how you can adapt to a good Excalibur even with the nerfed Exalted Blade to tear through crowds, a Saryn that snatches rooms of lives with spores, and in a defense mission, a Mesa that murders nearly everyone before you reach them. I feel like it's possible to adapt, but you know I guess some people just feel useless in a mission with a Limbo going too ham with a Cataclysm. As a Limbo main I would be laughing like hell at another Limbo snatching kills with Cataclysms. I would be clapping and enjoying the free Affinity. If I want to get all the kills so badly I would just get my tryhard Atlas build and punch crowds or maybe my Exalibur...who knows. You just have to expect to not get all the kills in a 4 man squad....especially with an Ember or some S#&$.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

1 hour ago, dopey_opi said:

The trouble is that Limbo stopping the use of his own guns also stops the use of his teammates' guns in the situation you're describing.  This is one of the ways that Limbo is disruptive to other players.  Limbo being powerful I don't have a problem with; Limbo being able to dictate what I can and cannot do by his ability usage and the amazing arrogance of his playerbase that seem to think that is okay?  That's objectively a problem.  Especially the last part.  It is mind boggling.

He doesn't really need to keep his squad in the rift with him. He can kick them out by combining Rift Surge with Cataclysm. By Surging enemies and then collapsing Cataclysm, he can boot all squad members out of the rift while keeping only enemies in the rift. You can even use Banish to further boot eximus units among the enemies you caught if you don't want to deal with them yet. This is basic rift management but I believe most Limbo players do not practice this.

[low1991]

Limbo Feedback:

• #1 Is complicaed to use. Should revert back to old #1. Where All players by default are material plane, casting Banish on allies cast them to Rfit, cast again to bring them back to material.
• #2 Stasis is practicable, but should only be applied to range projectile. Allowing enemies to move around & melee tennos.
• #3 Rfit surge just a chain Banish applied to enemies. And condition was limbo to be in rift for rift surge to be cast-able, and on kill drag a non-rift enemy into rift.This feels a much weaker version of #4 Cataclysm. For a 75 energy ability, it's a lackluster. 
• #4 Cataclysm. Feel too over-powered at all levels. Allowing players to just spam #4 all day long. Only countered by nullifer/combra(sth).
  • This should be changed into an AOE where does damage over time, as the enemies (not compatible with the rift) get torn.
  • The longer the Cataclysm remains, the higher charge it get, and on expiry/un-cast/manual cancelled, does damage based on charges (similar to Main). OR, the charge increase the DoT damage dealt to enemies in rift planes. (encourage #4 duration & Augment build).

Edited April 9, 2017 by low1991

[-N7-Leonhart]

11 hours ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Hmmm....last time I checked, Limbo is Master of the Void, his 4 is his ULTIMATE ABILITY, and the damage is mitigated by armor. Not only this but have you heard of Saryn? Press 1 to win? Hmm....watch LifeOfRio and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about. Limbo is NOT OP. He is POWERFUL. His abilities have good synergy, he CAN'T BANISH from within the Rift, and Cataclysm spam DOES NOT work in end game. Especially in the Void against Corrupted enemies. Only low armor enemies die to it. Low armor enemies get one shotted regardless.....Saryn spores will take them down fast, any other good DPS ability, Nidus with his stomp, Frost with enough power strength can freeze them and have their armor removed for the duration of the freeze and 1 shot them. Cataclysm nuking does not work in end game. People who stay doing low level missions complain about Limbo. Warframes are POWERFUL. A single enemy unless they are some high level Eximus or a Napalm or something, will NOT kill a good player on ANY Warframe. So please. Leave Limbo alone. 

Tell that to all those Limbo 'players' (they are just riding the hype) that use Cataclysm for exactly 0.3 seconds to kill absolutely everything around them. The result: no one does absolutely nothing except Limbo pushing a key.

Hell, I am not even worried, there is no way this will live for long.

[Irixa]

Upping this thread: Limbo Cataclysm spammers are imo worse than old Telos Boltace spammers and the old Miragulors...At least for the latter two you could run ahead or go to a different part of the map or something, these Limbos kill stuff rooms away...I can practically afk anytime I see a Cataclysm Limbo in a defense mission now.

[13QZXXTTX]

BRO CALM DOWN, Limbo is finally GOOD.

Now go solo Sortie 100 ALONE against a Juggernaut, with Limbo and if you done it under 5 minute, tell us, NO CP.

[-N7-Leonhart]

25 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

BRO CALM DOWN, Limbo is finally GOOD.

Now go solo Sortie 100 ALONE against a Juggernaut, with Limbo and if you done it under 5 minute, tell us, NO CP.

"You can't one-hit the Juggernaut => Limbo is fine and totally not broken OP". Now go kill some lvl 9999s with just 2 mods on Limbo (the range mods). It's not like there is any need for Duration, Strength or hell even Efficiency. 

[13QZXXTTX]

3 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

"You can't one-hit the Juggernaut => Limbo is fine and totally not broken OP". Now go kill some lvl 9999s with just 2 mods on Limbo (the range mods). It's not like there is any need for Duration, Strength or hell even Efficiency. 

You should know by know and how much you play already. DE will nerf when needed and when not asked. Enjoy it.

[-N7-Leonhart]

Just now, DesFrSpace said:

You should know by know and how much you play already. DE will nerf when needed and when not asked. Enjoy it.

I am not worried that it will never happen, it's pretty much set in stone. But, just as the title of the thread states, I fear that it will be too late as usual. They usually take months to nerf something, when there is no more evidence needed that they will have to do it regardless. In those cases, it's best to be swift and resolute, to prevent most of the damage.

[13QZXXTTX]

3 hours ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

I am not worried that it will never happen, it's pretty much set in stone. But, just as the title of the thread states, I fear that it will be too late as usual. They usually take months to nerf something, when there is no more evidence needed that they will have to do it regardless. In those cases, it's best to be swift and resolute, to prevent most of the damage.

 

Dude last respond you getting for this. LAME attempt, out b 4 game degrade. Limbo spam several time, don't Nullifier bubble cancel it? ALSO: why not 10 energy from each killed enemy, all these <10% are bad for a tougher fight.

Edited April 9, 2017 by DesFrSpace

[low1991]

On 4/7/2017 at 7:42 AM, Xardis said:

Infinite? Could you playtest it on a group of void mobs, say 140 lvl? Does it one shot all enemies?

No idea about 140. But limbo #4 can 1-shot chargers in sortie-1 with a decent amount of mobs.

Inb4. But he need that amount of enemies for the 1-shot ability!

[-N7-Leonhart]

57 minutes ago, DesFrSpace said:

Dude last respond you getting for this. LAME attempt, out b 4 game degrade. Limbo spam several time, don't Nullifier bubble cancel it? ALSO: why not 10 energy from each killed enemy, all these <10% are bad for a tougher fight.

That's most likely because those are Ancient Disruptors, which negate part of ability damage (unlike Ancient Healers). But also unlike Ancient Healers, those can apply their auras to other Ancients. So 10 of them will stack a lot of damage reduction to abilities, that is why they didn't get one-hit. If those were healers, it would probably not work that well, since those are incapable of applying their aura to other Ancients (for balance reasons). In practice, it will pretty much never happen for Disruptors to come in large squads like that, it's mostly 2-3 at a time, which is fairly easy for Limbo to deal with them.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

On 4/7/2017 at 8:06 AM, prot0mega said:

Oh you think insta nuke limbo is bad, that's cute. Wait till you team up with a perma stasis cataclysm limbo, in a freaking survival mission

Annoying and frustrating don't even begin to describe it.

Lol. Because Cataclysm is a distraction. DE knows this is what the players would be focusing on to disguise his true OP ability.

[ChameleonBro]

22 hours ago, Trichouette said:

Yeah because granting immortality to a defense point is so pathetic as an ability.

It is when it requires you to go out of it to deal any damage, and when you are inside you are expecting attacks from 360 degrees without getting any indication except for death, so yes, yes it was.

[Music4Therapy]

7 hours ago, ApocalypticFlameFury said:

Lmfao.....kid, I have more than 2000 hours on Warframe. Just because your opinion is nasty doesn't mean I'm gonna hastily agree. Learn to accept that this is a game. Nothing is perfect. Limbo doesn't deserve to be nerfed because you aren't good at the game.

In all my time playing, I've only said 2 frames are OP and need changed: Old black crit Volt, and this current iteration of Limbo. Both have similar issues, they can't die when played well and have insane offensive potential.

That said, keep salty Mr.2k hours because there is no way this is sticking around.

[Dragazer]

LImbo damage falls of heavily against heavily armored units have you tried his 4 agaisnt level 100s bombards naalms and gunners? 

They barely lose any hp.

Limbo has loss the ability to banish targets from different Planes and lost the dmg boost innate to his rift surge.

Not only that but stasis basically shuts off gun use for you and your team mates.

I'll say these are very fair trade offs for the dmg cataclysm does.

[Dragazer]

19 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

In all my time playing, I've only said 2 frames are OP and need changed: Old black crit Volt, and this current iteration of Limbo. Both have similar issues, they can't die when played well and have insane offensive potential.

That said, keep salty Mr.2k hours because there is no way this is sticking around.

And then nullifers show up.

Limbo has no tool in his kit to safely and reliably deal with nullies.

His entire cataclysm gets shut off once the nully even touches a small portion, making high range builds detrimental against corpus.

There is no way he can safely engage a nullifer without being outside the rift

Warframes like Loki, Ash, or Ivara can all turn invisible and safely deal with nullifiers with their ranged weapons.

Limbo cannot harm the bubble whist in the rift, and if you haven't noticed he isn't exactly the tankiest frame base stats wise. 

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dragazer

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, Dragazer said:

LImbo damage falls of heavily against heavily armored units have you tried his 4 agaisnt level 100s bombards naalms and gunners? 

They barely lose any hp.

Limbo has loss the ability to banish targets from different Planes and lost the dmg boost innate to his rift surge.

Not only that but stasis basically shuts off gun use for you and your team mates.

I'll say these are very fair trade offs for the dmg cataclysm does.

I say remove the scaling from his 4 and give that damage boost back to his Rift Surge. "All enemies affected by Rift Surge take x times more damage" Also, other similar frames face similar restrictions...

There are 4 frames that can place barriers to defend a target thus are necessary in defense-

Limbo: Has a projectile cap on his CC (2)

Volt: Has a damage cap on his CC (4)

Frost: Can't apply status effects to enemies affected by his CC (4)

Atlas: Can't use weapons/abilities while petrifying enemies. (3)

The best thing about Limbo's 2 is that it freezes enemies as they enter his range, as long as stasis is active they'll automatically freeze upon entering his range. Imagine if enemies were frozen solid upon entering Frost's bubble?

[Dragazer]

5 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

I say remove the scaling from his 4 and give that damage boost back to his Rift Surge. "All enemies affected by Rift Surge take x times more damage" Also, other similar frames face similar restrictions...

There are 4 frames that can place barriers to defend a target thus are necessary in defense-

Limbo: Has a projectile cap on his CC (2)

Volt: Has a damage cap on his CC (4)

Frost: Can't apply status effects to enemies affected by his CC (4)

Atlas: Can't use weapons/abilities while petrifying enemies. (3)

The best thing about Limbo's 2 is that it freezes enemies as they enter his range, as long as stasis is active they'll automatically freeze upon entering his range. Imagine if enemies were frozen solid upon entering Frost's bubble?

Any existing status proc b4 getting frozen by frost's 4 gain infinite duration for the duration of the freeze so ill say thats actually a bonus.

You are wrong though no other ability than limbo shuts down projectile weapons for yourself and you own team mates. All the other frame restrictions you mentioned only affect that individual player.

Some player consider stasis borderline griefing especially on gun only sorties.

Edited April 9, 2017 by Dragazer

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

And then nullifers show up.

Limbo has no tool in his kit to safely and reliably deal with nullies.

His entire cataclysm gets shut off once the nully even touches a small portion, making high range builds detrimental against corpus.

There is no way he can safely engage a nullifer without being outside the rift

Warframes like Loki, Ash, or Ivara can all turn invisible and safely deal with nullifiers with their ranged weapons.

Limbo cannot harm the bubble whist in the rift, and if you haven't noticed he isn't exactly the tankiest frame base stats wise. 

There are infact 2 ways for Limbo to deal with this but first I will say that nearly every frame is countered by nullifiers, its the nullifiers job to do that. That said,

1) Limbo can LoS the Corpus and cast Cataclysm a couple times while out of LoS. This will damage/kill the nullifiers safely. You can rift walk to a safe location and cast Cataclysm from a range/safe place until all nullifiers are dead. Yes, Cata destroys bubbles.

2) Naramon melee Limbo, the god of Warframe. Use Cata to kill weak units, use melee to kill armored/priority targets.

Limbo will last forever using option 1 vs all factions but the Corrupted (Ancient + Nullifier stacking is his counter)

Using Naramon, Limbo is godframe.

[Music4Therapy]

1 minute ago, Dragazer said:

Any existing status proc b4 getting frozen by frost's 4 gain infinite duration for the duration of the freeze so ill say thats actually a bonus.

I knew that, but did you know that Limbo works the same way? The difference between the 2 is that when Frost freezes an enemy, neither he nor his squadmates can apply any further status effects to enemies. Limbo can continue to apply status effects to enemies while they are in stasis, and those status effects last forever.

[Dragazer]

24 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

There are infact 2 ways for Limbo to deal with this but first I will say that nearly every frame is countered by nullifiers, its the nullifiers job to do that. That said,

1) Limbo can LoS the Corpus and cast Cataclysm a couple times while out of LoS. This will damage/kill the nullifiers safely. You can rift walk to a safe location and cast Cataclysm from a range/safe place until all nullifiers are dead. Yes, Cata destroys bubbles.

2) Naramon melee Limbo, the god of Warframe. Use Cata to kill weak units, use melee to kill armored/priority targets.

Limbo will last forever using option 1 vs all factions but the Corrupted (Ancient + Nullifier stacking is his counter)

Using Naramon, Limbo is godframe.

That needs to be fixed than Warframe abilties should not be able to damage null bubbles

Any frame can use Naramon and be good

[Music4Therapy]

9 minutes ago, Dragazer said:

That needs to be fixed than Warframe abilties should not be able to damage null bubbles

Any frame can use Naramon and be good

Now that the Nullifiers have that object on top of their bubbles many abilities can damage the bubble.

Also, I agree. Naramon is cheese.

[KIREEK]

On 07/04/2017 at 1:06 AM, prot0mega said:

Oh you think insta nuke limbo is bad, that's cute. Wait till you team up with a perma stasis cataclysm limbo, in a freaking survival mission

Annoying and frustrating don't even begin to describe it.

Had something similar on a sortie interception in a small map, escaping the ability was nearly impossible, my zenistar disk wouldn't work (projectile) and the limbo pretty much imposed a melee only interception, weapons became worthless as we couldn't damage enemies with them.

Strategy was nice but since it took us several seconds to dispatch individual units (they had elemental resistance btw and the only viable way to deal damage was with high crith phisical damage, something not all players had on the melee weapon), we could never actually capture the nodes in the interception, players left, no idea what happened to the limbo, he stayed i guess.

It is fustrating knowing you can kill enemies quickly and then someone just saying "nope" on your face

Edited April 9, 2017 by KIREEK

[Djego27]

On 9.4.2017 at 7:39 PM, Dragazer said:

LImbo damage falls of heavily against heavily armored units have you tried his 4 agaisnt level 100s bombards naalms and gunners? 

They barely lose any hp.

Yeah, assuming CP and armor striping/ignoring melee weapons would not exist, however they do to allow scaling on frames that do not come with infinite god mode and scaling HP ability casts. I mean the reason why a semi afk Limbo does 3 times more damage on Hirakon then my Saryn(what is already borderline OP, given how easy it is if you actually play the game) is not that he is a particular good player(heck he had 8 melee kills after 28 excavations and I had to clean his stasis bubbles with my melee because he was incapable to do that himself).