[Update 20] Limbo Revisited Feedback Megathread

[DEATHLOK]

I didn't feel this way before the rework, not even when some turd was abusing Banish. But this rework adds multiple ways to troll, appears to have been designed and tested in solo play only, and has no place in the current team play landscape, given the propensity of some players to abuse each other. I know some players aren't abusing Limbo, but the others have quite pushed me into the hate zone.

What makes me even more angry are the rumors that DE has no intention of fixing this mess properly, but instead plans a Nerf to Cataclysm. It's like Ash all over again, but worse.

Was Limbo "too hard" to use before? He was enormously powerful for those who figured him out.

They should roll him back. If DE is married to the trolling attributes, why continue playing the game? It gets tiresome quitting squads with Limbo in them. Maybe DE will add a "No Limbo" filter....

[(PSN)ShadeEmNero]

I was thinking why not make it so that cataclysm strips armor make it start off low but make the stripping get stronger then possibly make it so that it so that it completely strips armor if left up long enough (with help from the syndicate mode) to encourage players to keep the skill up longer and hold down a specific spot.

Hoping they stop it from shrinking too tho...

Edited April 14, 2017 by (PS4)ShadeEmNero

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

1 hour ago, (PS4)psycofang said:

Its a joke.

Oh... ok...

1 hour ago, ChameleonBro said:

The worst thing I can see happening is stripping away the scaling Cataclysm has. I just hope it doesn't benefit from the passive so that you don't have infinite nukes, if it stays a nuke that is.

I honestly don't really remember anyone asking DE to give Limbo's Cataclysm increased damage in anyway during the days when he was being reworked. I remember the Time Stop and Rift Dash was suggested by one person. Many people suggested the Rift Tear comparing it to Volt's speed coil. I was one of them. I'm not sure why DE thought it would be a great idea to give Limbo's 4 a nuking feature this independent. I remember a vid of someone using a max range max power pre-rework Limbo nuking 1.2k enemies on the first rotation of Berehinya. Maybe they got the idea from that but the pre-reworked version still needed power strength mods and an EV trinity to function. The reworked version needed none of those conditions.

[Koyaanisqatsi]

 

http://mmoexaminer.com/warframe-nerfs-pushing-community-away

 

Edited April 14, 2017 by Koyaanisqatsi
typo

[MudShadow]

10 hours ago, Koyaanisqatsi said:

Yeah lets buff limbo then players will use him.
Yeah lets nerf limbo then players wont use him.
Repeat.

DE. When nerfs let your game less funny you loose players, and i think it will be te fifth limbo nerf.

Maybe it's time to search other game to play.

I really don't understand this. I mean Limbo at the momemnt is clearly broken as hell. He needs to be "Fixed". He has the best CC and the best damage right now. He can clear entire missions by spamming cataclysm. 

Edited April 15, 2017 by MudShadow

[amilita]

In my opinion,Cataclysm's Reduction by time course is nothing to need.

That Reduction getting in the way of limbo's fighting style in dimention field and his other ability.

[Helljack84]

Since you decided to throw any kind of balance out of the window (again), can we have old magnetize back?

No point in not having a kill everything nuke on more frames. Also give her invulnerability and more CC while you're at it.

[SasoDuck]

Correct me if I'm wrong but this was totally glossed over in the patch notes. Limbo's passive used to be +50% reload speed and movement speed while in the Rift. In other words, one of the best freaking passives in the game. For comparison, Volt with max Trans Fort, Intensify, and Power Drift (not using Blind Rage on my build) can only get +25% reload speed. Only poison Chroma could beat that for a reload speed buff (can get 99% reload speed with only a single Intensify). Like, I really enjoyed this passive.

But now, after bringing my Rubico along with Limbo (which you all know has a very long reload), I noticed it wasn't reloading very much faster than normal. Not any faster than normal as it turns out. I went back and checked Limbo's abilities and lo and behold, he's fallen victim to "Chroma-itis": that is, the trait that allows Limbo to work as Limbo has become his "passive," just like how Chroma's shtick that allows him to function is his so-called "passive" rather than actually having a proper passive.

[SarcasmMagic]

Limbo was cool before rework, and after he is awesome. yeah, sometimes he needs more teamplay, but in general - u can play him and don't ruin fun for others. Now i take him on every mission with max duration build, but i really feel that nuke is op, so trying not usin cataclysm only as old bubble, wich i generraly place near others, and use my melle in it.
Stasis is pretty cool, but yes, it  feels like you don't have enough safety so you cant _shoot_ enemies in rift.
but about new banish - i'm don't complain, and be in same plane with target - seems fair, and i don't have problemms with that, you can always use cataclysm where u stand - rift surge mobs and close cataclysm, so they will stay in rift, and noone oneshot you)
also idea with roll-riftwalk is awesome

[RiouHotaru]

Removing and/or massively tweaking the scaling damage from Cataclysm (What I assume the tweak will entail) is the best thing they can possibly do.  It turned Limbo from an interesting frame into pre-Rework Saryn and I know you all remember how obnoxiously boring that was.  If you're legitimately trying to defend keeping the damage then you likely didn't care about Limbo outside of his ult.  Limbo's supposed to be a utility frame not a straight-up nuker.

Not to mention it makes any and all play with him boring as hell for player and team alike.

[sulusdacor]

kinda worried about the cataclysm "balance" change, since the past cases usally went overboard...

before the rework i can count the times i played limbo on one hand. it was literally only for the kehla boss fight. not so much my frame design and add to that the amount of griev you can couse to your team kinda did not wanted to get into him.

so after the rework i picked him up and played around with him a bit. the amount of trolling and problem you can couse for your team got even greater. now you can not only specific areas you can not damage, you can stop all gun fire too. so he went back into the closet for me. yes the stasis is very very good cc and it is fun, if you are the limbo. but i was a bunch of times on the other end and as a teammate it straight up takes away all fun of the mission. don't wanne do that to others,so....

then the nuke build came around and i thought, looks fun, maybe try it out.and it was. never had any problem with the visuals from it. i usally use it to farm some lower tier missions from time to time. i tried it once in a sorty mission and it was okayish. against heavily armored units (which is at a certain level every unit) the damage falls off pretty hard. you need to cast it so many times that you run out of energy before u kill the enemy most of the time. so yes it is super good into lower tier mission like many other abilites are (embers 4, equinox 4, ....). it scales better then most, but it falls off too. (and yes you can remove armor with 4xcp, but armor is a bit of a whole other problem in itself.) the current problem with the ability i feel is not as much the scaling, but the fact that i cast it for 25 energy with max efficiency and upon killing the enemis in it i have basiclly full energy after the cast. this no cost energy system makes it abuseable by alot. since you get way more back then you actually invest, there is basiclly no cost. that for me is the main problem i think should be addressed. the whole "it scales endlessly/to good" is more a problem with enemyscaling itself and armor. The enemyscaling/armor should be adressed anyway and has nothing to do with the damage of this ability. guranted i can see the percent health damage being "adjusted" as another bandaid fix to not adress that problem.....

another point to make here is that the max range build makes the cataclysm more bearable for the team. there is a larger area in which i can shoot as a team mate. it does not punish the team when a limbo casts it, since most target will be in it. the other thing is if i just cast and collapse it usally lets the heavy units stand. the team does not have to deal with the shooting restrictions at all. the stasis ability (which open up much larger griev) does not need to be used. so my team can still play, i basicly just kill the small mobs. i think that is an okay playstyle for a frame, that has many problems in team play.

for the "balance" i would love to see the visuals tuned down a bit,since most have problem with that. i would love to see the energy back mechanic looked at. so that the ability actually costs energy at the end (maybe like the nidus 1st ability?).  the range should stay. the percentage health damage in my perfect world would stay and you would adress enemy scaling/armor. since i know the last thing will not happen.. adjust/set the damage to an amount that maybe scalles with power str if it stays percent health or if it becomes a flat amount so that it scalles okay and falls not off super early *cough* *hydroid* *cough*. so yeah...

if the balance change kinda removes the nuke as an aoe clear in even lower level content i do not see me playing limbo other then the kehla boss fight and maybe the upcoming ambulas boss fight with the orbital strike thingy. the amount of trolling and the fun it takes away for your team is simply to big. And the rework did not adress this at all,but made it worse. the nuke build is a way to go around that problem, thats why people use it and like it. yes it does well dmg wise in the process. but it removes the team griev with stasis and banish and limited shooting. adress these issues and people will play and like him, nuke or no nuke.

thx for reading

fight on tenno =)

[POIKILO]

11 hours ago, DEATHLOK said:

I didn't feel this way before the rework, not even when some turd was abusing Banish. But this rework adds multiple ways to troll, appears to have been designed and tested in solo play only, and has no place in the current team play landscape, given the propensity of some players to abuse each other. I know some players aren't abusing Limbo, but the others have quite pushed me into the hate zone.

What makes me even more angry are the rumors that DE has no intention of fixing this mess properly, but instead plans a Nerf to Cataclysm. It's like Ash all over again, but worse.

Was Limbo "too hard" to use before? He was enormously powerful for those who figured him out.

They should roll him back. If DE is married to the trolling attributes, why continue playing the game? It gets tiresome quitting squads with Limbo in them. Maybe DE will add a "No Limbo" filter....

I was a Limbo main, and I couldn't agree with you more about Limbo being enormously powerful before this rework came around. He was incredibly useful for certain missions and sorties. With Limbo, I could tank, banish defense/rescue objectives, safely revive teammates, etc. I loved using him for endless defense missions. My friend and I would run as Nyx and Limbo respectively, on our own, yet we could easily handle high level content. Limbo certainly wasn't perfect, but I liked using him because of how versatile he was in providing support. 

I'm angry to hear about those rumors as well, it's unbelievably insulting and frustrating. I certainly hope they're just rumors but I have little faith in DE. They've consistently fallen short of considering/implementing player feedback and it really sours the game for me. Makes me wonder if DE has fixed Limbo's bugs on taking environmental damage while in the Rift, like the good old lighting strikes.

I agree - I'd rather have DE roll Limbo back. I'm not entertaining the concept of Limbo being a nuke frame and I don't appreciate how he's used intentionally and unintentionally as a troll frame, again (like before the time players could roll out of Banish).

[Kotsender_Quasimir]

4 hours ago, sulusdacor said:

kinda worried about the cataclysm "balance" change, since the past cases usally went overboard...

i'm not because even if they'd decide to take off ALL damage AND the energy regen from cataclysm he'd still be more than apt enough at CC all the while being in god mode which doesn't even cost him energy but instead replenishes it. that's just how broken he is at the moment.

[(PSN)ShadeEmNero]

Passive is +10 energy on kill in the rift and free/infinite rift walk with infinite duration people would likely be raving mad if limbo kept his old one on top of this while passives like Oberon's exists not to mention limbo can technically use party support(rift portal) without a energy cost 

Edited April 15, 2017 by (PS4)ShadeEmNero

[Mousarchy]

ya i was a lil sad with it being taken out but im fine with it gone. i mean. regen in rift +mana on in-rift kill + inf duration +portal for allies to join and obtain same benifits. (well the regen portion anyways)

[Evanescent]

You should research more before posting. His passive is that he receives 10 energy for every kill made in the rift. It better suits his energy intensive playstyle now.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

I have a suggestion for Limbo's Cataclysm collapse effect. I remember in devstream 88, they said that the damage of Cataclysm's collapse was going to be based off of the number of enemies in the rift. Never did they mention that it was going to be based off of the health and shields of enemies too. Here's my idea...

When Cataclysm collapses, it has a base damage of 500 Blast that's modified by Power Strength. This 500 Blast is further multiplied by 30% for each enemy in the bubble during the collapse. This 30% is also affected by Power Strength.

So if there's 20 enemies in there, a Blast damage of 500 * (0.3 * 20) is applied to all enemies within the AoE. That's around 3000 damage. If you have 200% Power Strength on Limbo, the values will be 1000 *. (0.6 * 20) which is around 12000 Blast damage. If you have more than 20 enemies then its gonna get higher.

In a way it still scales but it will no longer scale off of enemy health and shields and only scales off of enemy numbers like how Rift Torrent works. Additionally, the damage from this effect is applied AFTER the enemies leave the rift so their death won't grant Limbo additional 10 energy per kill.

 

Edited April 15, 2017 by (PS4)mahoshonenfox

[DEATHLOK]

26 minutes ago, (PS4)mahoshonenfox said:

I have a suggestion for Limbo's Cataclysm collapse effect. I remember in devstream 88, they said that the damage of Cataclysm's collapse was going to be based off of the number of enemies in the rift. Never did they mention that it was going to be based off of the health and shields of enemies too. Here's my idea...

When Cataclysm collapses, it has a base damage of 500 Blast that's modified by Power Strength. This 500 Blast is further multiplied by 30% for each enemy in the bubble during the collapse. This 30% is also affected by Power Strength.

So if there's 20 enemies in there, a Blast damage of 500 * (0.3 * 20) is applied to all enemies within the AoE. That's around 3000 damage. If you have 200% Power Strength on Limbo, the values will be 1000 *. (0.6 * 20) which is around 12000 Blast damage. If you have more than 20 enemies then its gonna get higher.

In a way it still scales but it will no longer scale off of enemy health and shields and only scales off of enemy numbers like how Rift Torrent works. Additionally, the damage from this effect is applied AFTER the enemies leave the rift so their death won't grant Limbo additional 10 energy per kill.

 

The better idea is to roll it back to the previous version.

I am done having some clown continuously popping me in and out of the Rift. I hate that even more than not having anyone to shoot at. Limbo is the ONLY frame to affect other players thus, and I'd LOVE to know who thought this new build was a good idea.

I absolutely will quit the game if this particular trolling mechanic isn't removed. Unless they add a "No Limbo" filter to the matchmaking code.

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

1 hour ago, DEATHLOK said:

The better idea is to roll it back to the previous version.

I am done having some clown continuously popping me in and out of the Rift. I hate that even more than not having anyone to shoot at. Limbo is the ONLY frame to affect other players thus, and I'd LOVE to know who thought this new build was a good idea.

I absolutely will quit the game if this particular trolling mechanic isn't removed. Unless they add a "No Limbo" filter to the matchmaking code.

Many have actually suggested a pug filter. I kinda like that idea too since there are several other warframes that can be massive trolls other than Limbo like Nidus, Inaros or Hydroid on defense missions preventing players from killing the last enemy. Don't forget the worm hole Novas, trampoline Vaubans and switch teleport Lokis that can actually get you killed in a mission. Its not like there isn't a filter in game already but its only for either filtering out playing with friends or clan members.

[SasoDuck]

5 hours ago, Ordosan said:

ya i was a lil sad with it being taken out but im fine with it gone. i mean. regen in rift +mana on in-rift kill + inf duration +portal for allies to join and obtain same benifits. (well the regen portion anyways)

He already has massive energy regen anyway, he doesn't need MORE.
Before he had energy regen AND faster reloading AND faster movement speed. Now he just energy regen. Which is pretty crap.

Edited April 15, 2017 by SasoDuck

[SasoDuck]

5 hours ago, Evanescent said:

You should research more before posting. His passive is that he receives 10 energy for every kill made in the rift. It better suits his energy intensive playstyle now.

Yeah I am aware of that. It's still a nerf.

[DEATHLOK]

Yeah, but the better plan would be to just roll the changes back.

My "Loki filter" is cynical tongue-in-cheek tripe I hope does not actually come to pass. They could roll it back and be more thoughtful with future changes. It's as if they are designing around deadlines, rather than ideas.

[(PSN)psycofang]

6 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

It's as if they are designing around deadlines, rather than ideas

Kinda because they are, im assuming they have x date to reach specific amounts of appropriate content.

 

[(PSN)mahoshonenfox]

14 minutes ago, DEATHLOK said:

Yeah, but the better plan would be to just roll the changes back.

My "Loki filter" is cynical tongue-in-cheek tripe I hope does not actually come to pass. They could roll it back and be more thoughtful with future changes. It's as if they are designing around deadlines, rather than ideas.

There's a lot of logistics when it comes to updating games. They use a lot of resources, spending time, paying coders, artists, modelers, QA testers. They pay Sony and Microsoft for certification of content. They can't just roll things back. That would be like throwing a lot of work, time and money down the toilet. That also means other content that should be worked on will not be worked on if they roll things back.

It would be more cost efficient to move forward instead of going back. Maybe in the future there would be a second round of reworks.

[Insizer]

Sometimes, especially if I'm playing against infested, enemies will run away once I banish them as part of a group.  I then have to take time playing cat and mouse only to find my ally trying to melee it to death from outside of the Rift... So I came up with a simple fix: If banished enemies appear on Limbo's (or anyone else's) radar then their dot markers appear as a different color. 

I think this could be a small and nice QoL addition for Limbo.