Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[ashrah]

oberon is no word... 300% power u need 3 cast to kill lvl 30 heavy gunner

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

Hey, atleast DE tried to rework Oberon, they just straight up nerfed ash...

[Music4Therapy]

29 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

I agree. Oberon needs a fedora.

Wait we weren't talking about that? Okay.. oberon doesnt need the energy regen. Theres already too many ways to get energy back in game, and if you really want energy you'd not mod entirely for power strength. Take off the blind rage, throw on a streamline and see how muh energy you save. 

As for comparing him to frames.. if you remember hes NOT primed. So youd be comaparing him to frames like normal volt, normal trin, normal ash etc. Energy wise hes pretty on par. 

omfg. About to dismantle this baseless argument.

29 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

Okay.. oberon doesnt need the energy regen. Theres already too many ways to get energy back in game, and if you really want energy you'd not mod entirely for power strength. Take off the blind rage, throw on a streamline and see how muh energy you save. 

1) Way too many ways? You mean Energy Siphon and Zenurik? Both of which he doesn't benefit from while he is draining 2 energy/second in addition to the 5 per second for each ally that is affected by the ability?

2) I run max efficiency and duration, don't make assumptions, especially considering the fact you have a small amount of gameplay experience with the frame.

3) The power in Oberon's kit is within the synergies it provides, the abilities themselves are not very strong independent of each other. This result in you casting his Hallowed Ground, 50 energy. You then use Reckoning (100) to CC the enemies around you and strip them of armor while providing you cover so that you can cast his Renewal (25) safely on his Hallowed Ground and gain the synergy effect from that, Iron Renewal. While you are being healed, you are draining energy at a rate of 2 per second at base and 5 per second per ally. If you need to move? You don't get to move the Hallowed Ground, you recast it for another 50 energy.

Nidus and Limbo are both great examples of frames that have huge amounts of synergy within their kits, very similar to Oberon in that way, and they both have ways to generate energy. Your argument for Nidus and Limbo self-producing energy and Oberon not being able to is "theres already too many ways to get energy back in the game", like shut up with that bs and come up with a legitimate argument. Oberon's basic 2-4-3 combo costs 175 energy before efficiency, he relies heavily on the usage of that combo in his current iteration and cannot benefit from Zenurik or Energy Siphon while healing.

Quote

As for comparing him to frames.. if you remember hes NOT primed. So youd be comaparing him to frames like normal volt, normal trin, normal ash etc. Energy wise hes pretty on par. 

Oh really? Didn't notice. They can literally double his base energy, tying him with Saryn and Volt for highest in the game, and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Oberon is an ability spammer that is heavily reliant on combos within his kit to work, just like Saryn. Unlike Saryn, he doesn't have ways in his kit to reduce the cost of his abilities (Saryn's Spores cost half as much when cast on Molt) nor does he have ways to gain energy (Toxic Lash gives energy back for every spore popped). Also, Saryn is spamming her Spores, which costs 25, at half the cost on her Molt, which costs 50. Thats it. Her Toxic Lash has a long duration and she doesn't spam Miasma.

Oberon? He is laying down Hallowed Ground as he moves for 50 energy, draining energy and thus not benefiting from Zenurik due to Renewal, and refreshing said ability to ensure allies have maximum uptime of the Iron Renewal buff, and spamming his Reckoning which costs 100 to strip enemies of armor and keep them CCd. Oh yeah, Reckoning has an absurd cast time so its highly recommended you take Natural Talent. And all these abilities need range to properly synergize with one another. And in order to pull off the combo consistently you need max efficiency. And in order for your buff to last you need duration. And in order for your buff to be meaningful you need strength. And in order to have energy right now you need Rage, otherwise you will be drained very quickly. Without Primed Flow your energy pool is minuscule.Where do you fit Rage into the equation? Where do you fit augments? How come Saryn, Nidus, and Limbo which are heavily reliant on the synergies within their kits get energy gain/cost reduction but Oberon doesn't?

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[KX297]

30 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

I agree. Oberon needs a fedora.

Wait we weren't talking about that? Okay.. oberon doesnt need the energy regen. Theres already too many ways to get energy back in game, and if you really want energy you'd not mod entirely for power strength. Take off the blind rage, throw on a streamline and see how muh energy you save. 

As for comparing him to frames.. if you remember hes NOT primed. So youd be comaparing him to frames like normal volt, normal trin, normal ash etc. Energy wise hes pretty on par. 

Even with maxed efficiency it can be very difficult to fully maintain his energy.

Remember, his Renewal energy/second cost is per person. Then you consider casting other things as well, and he very quickly becomes inefficient. 

Sure, Rage and efficiency mods help, but then you immediately lose out three or more mod slots to help alleviate the issues created through poor design, which could be used on other things such as duration or range increasing mods. Simply saying mod for efficiency and throw on a Rage is bad because it prevents interesting builds for things such as max range, duration, etc from coming to fruition due to limited space.  

Whoever said anything about using Blind Rage to start with? Why are you blindly making assumptions? 

Throwing on streamline does not fully resolve the issues he currently is faced with. 

And you're right, he's not primed. They probably should should compare him to non-prime frames. 

Though that doesn't change the fact that with the way his abilities currently work with one another, it costs far too much energy to fully achieve and maintain your buffs. 

25 minutes ago, LuckyCharm said:

You ever tried playing any of the other frames without mods? Without zenurik loki couldnt stay invis, ash couldnt kill more than 6 things, volt would rely entirely on his shield and nova would get one prime off every 3 defense waves and it'd barely slow things. 

Of course people are going to say use specific mods. Because theyre effective. Try make a speed nova without overextended. 

Using mods due to effectiveness is one thing. Using them because they are literally required is another. 

And, to top it off, they still don't fully resolve the issues at hand. 

To make Oberon efficient in his current form requires very specific modding, so much so that the majority interesting and unique build versatility is thrown out the window. 

My main issue is that I have to continually recast Hallowed Ground to maintain full effectiveness with Oberon. 

And in a game where moving is so important, I end up having to recast it frequently. 

This becomes a problem when I'm continually casting it as I move along through the map while trying to cast Smite, Reckoning, and maintain Renewal. 

Honestly, all yesterday, I just stopped casting Hallowed Ground after getting my renewal buff because it just wasn't worth the energy cost or the effort. 

If I don't worry about using Hallowed Ground, then energy isn't a huge issue. But then I really don't get the full benefit of Reckoning and I'm only ever really using three of Oberon's four abilities. So maybe it's more of an issue with Hallowed Ground still just not being very good? I still believe that it doesn't really do anything amazing, is too small and limited, and doesn't currently have a place in Warframe.

That aside, DE seems insistent of keeping the dam thing. And If they wanna keep it and try to force us into using it though poor combos with other abilities, then we need to look into cutting some of Oberon's energy costs or giving him a way to refund the energy. 

I'm still unsure why some people are so against this. Would it make him overpowered? Not in any form.

Would it help him a hell of a lot in fulfilling his part in the mission? Definitely. 

I mean, we aren't even asking for a lot.

Five energy per kill if the enemy is on the Hallowed Ground? That's a minor energy gain for killing an enemy on a super limited amount of space. In no way overpowered. It would however get me to maybe consider using and actually standing on Hallowed Ground past getting my Renewal buff. 

I'm also the fan of the idea of simply cutting his energy costs per cast down while he is standing on the Hallowed Ground as opposed to him gaining energy per kill. 

Either way, something should be done. 

Rage and efficiency should't be answers to flat out flaws in design. The idea of him combining powers is cool, but for the cost to do so currently, how limited it can be, how inefficient it can be, and how much it can limit build variations, it's just not worth it. 

Again, just my opinion though. One that does come from experience however. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by KX297

[Doomsknightmare]

4 minutes ago, (Xbox One)CFE Angry said:

Hey, atleast DE tried to rework Oberon, they just straight up nerfed ash...

But dont u think that nerfed Ash is still better than buffed Oberon lol 

[-N7-Leonhart]

6 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

EDIT: Its moronic that Rage is "required". It doesn't even work in late game due to 1-shots and his lack of an energy mechanic is what is holding him back now as a frame.

By that logic, even healing is absolutely useless at high levels due to 1-shots...

You should get the point, most things in this game are not made to resist very high levels. In fact, that's exactly the point of very high levels, a steel wall you are supposed to hit in your quest for more power.

[Music4Therapy]

5 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

By that logic, even healing is absolutely useless at high levels due to 1-shots...

You should get the point, most things in this game are not made to resist very high levels. In fact, that's exactly the point of very high levels, a steel wall you are supposed to hit in your quest for more power.

And to you I will leave this here.

Quote

They can literally double his base energy, tying him with Saryn and Volt for highest in the game, and it wouldn't change a damn thing. Oberon is an ability spammer that is heavily reliant on combos within his kit to work, just like Saryn. Unlike Saryn, he doesn't have ways in his kit to reduce the cost of his abilities (Saryn's Spores cost half as much when cast on Molt) nor does he have ways to gain energy (Toxic Lash gives energy back for every spore popped). Also, Saryn is spamming her Spores, which costs 25, at half the cost on her Molt, which costs 50. Thats it. Her Toxic Lash has a long duration and she doesn't spam Miasma.

Oberon? He is laying down Hallowed Ground as he moves for 50 energy, draining energy and thus not benefiting from Zenurik due to Renewal, and refreshing said ability to ensure allies have maximum uptime of the Iron Renewal buff, and spamming his Reckoning which costs 100 to strip enemies of armor and keep them CCd. Oh yeah, Reckoning has an absurd cast time so its highly recommended you take Natural Talent. And all these abilities need range to properly synergize with one another. And in order to pull off the combo consistently you need max efficiency. And in order for your buff to last you need duration. And in order for your buff to be meaningful you need strength. And in order to have energy right now you need Rage, otherwise you will be drained very quickly. Without Primed Flow your energy pool is minuscule.Where do you fit Rage into the equation? Where do you fit augments? How come Saryn, Nidus, and Limbo which are heavily reliant on the synergies within their kits get energy gain/cost reduction but Oberon doesn't?

 

EDIT: JESUS why are people so against the idea of Oberon getting some energy regen? Do people really believe that this frame should require Rage to function? And complete and utterly useless without a Trinity and/or a dozen pizzas in late game when he starts getting 1 shot? How is Nidus or Limbo justified in having energy regen and not Oberon? No one can answer that question.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[-N7-Leonhart]

4 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

EDIT: JESUS why are people so against the idea of Oberon getting some energy regen? Do people REALLLLYYYY believe that this frame should require Rage to function? And complete and utterly useless without a Trinity and/or a dozen pizzas in late game when he starts getting 1 shot? How is Nidus or Limbo justified in having energy regen and not Oberon? No one can answer that question.

Too many frames with the same niche and it will turn into a complete "Give energy regen to all the frames!".

In order to be good, Oberon needs something a lot more that just some 0.5e / s. One of those is a larger energy capacity that will work wonders with Rage btw. But that will probably come when his prime hits, so we will have to see what other changes he has in store.

[IamRageypoo]

I was introduced to this game by a friend who played for years, talked about how amazing DE was as a company and how they listened to their audience, and how great the game is, it felt special. He loved playing ash, it was his favorite frame, and we had a lot of fun playing together. 

After the ash rework, he hasn't logged in since. 

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Since it has the potential to strip armor it's not "useless."  It also procs enemies with radation.  which on top of reckoning itself being hard cc it's also doing a soft cc.  Plus reckoning also does extra damage to irradiated enemies.  You're also forgetting enemies that don't die to reckoning get blinded for a short bit.  Think of oberon having check boxes for his abilities.

When an enemy is hit by smite do they die?  If yes spawn orbs.  If no spawn orbs.  Do those orbs kill their target? if yes job is done.  if no inflict puncture.

Player casts renewal.  Is an effected target on hollowed ground?  if yes give armor.  If no than just keep heal on people with an extended bleed timer.

Player casts reckoning.  Is the target on hollowed ground? if yes strip armor.  Is the enemy killed by reckoning? if yes maybe spawn a health orb.  if no inflict them with blind and radation.

Oberon's kit is about flexibility.  his abilities react accordingly to the situation.

[KX297]

3 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

Too many frames with the same niche and it will turn into a complete "Give energy regen to all the frames!".

In order to be good, Oberon needs something a lot more that just some 0.5e / s. One of those is a larger energy capacity that will work wonders with Rage btw. But that will probably come when his prime hits, so we will have to see what other changes he has in store.

It sad to say, but I think you're right.

Guess time will tell. 

Dev stream is today, ya? 

They'll probably talk about things to come.

 

[Music4Therapy]

Just now, -N7-Leonhart said:

Too many frames with the same niche and it will turn into a complete "Give energy regen to all the frames!".

In order to be good, Oberon needs something a lot more that just some 0.5e / s. One of those is a larger energy capacity that will work wonders with Rage btw. But that will probably come when his prime hits, so we will have to see what other changes he has in store.

I offered in the OP that he receive a buff on Hallowed Ground very similar to that Limbo does in the Rift, giving him energy for each kill he gets credit for while he is on his Hallowed Ground. Even if that isn't the best suggestion, Oberon players agree that he needs *something* to help his energy management in late game scenarios when being shot in the face isn't a great idea. That *something* would go a long way in bringing much needed consistency to his kit.

How many frames honestly require that they spam 4 in order to function as much as Oberon?

[OkamiMilo]

They are still working on Oberon and his abilities, i used Oberon before his re-work and in low-med missions he do some job, and now in his re-work he still a med frame to use. I like him. i prefer him than trinity

[-N7-Leonhart]

1 minute ago, KX297 said:

It sad to say, but I think you're right.

Guess time will tell. 

Dev stream is today, ya? 

They'll probably talk about things to come.

 

They most certainly will, as Oberon is probably their next prime. And there are a lot of lengths they will go to in order to make sure their Prime Access sells 

[redeyedtreefrog]

I'm not sure any of us say that oberon SHOULDN'T be able to regenerate energy. It is because of the fact that we DON'T have any other way to regenerate energy by ourselves that many oberon players use a rage build. It's especially helpful that oberon has a healing ability.

Anyways, the argument against rage is that there's always a point at which taking damage one-hits you. And yep. At that point, rage is useless. But it doesn't mean that I'm taking rage off of him, even if he did get a reliable way to regain energy (An idea which I'd support, but am currently too focused on rallying for DE to fix their mess they call renewal).

[KX297]

3 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

They most certainly will, as Oberon is probably their next prime. And there are a lot of lengths they will go to in order to make sure their Prime Access sells 

Isn't that the truth.

I said long ago I'd buy Oberon Prime when it came out, and I still intend to regardless of how they go about it.

 

[Music4Therapy]

No other frame has an ability thats sole purpose of existence is "synergy", and thats pretty much all that his Hallowed Ground has become. Take away all the synergies with other abilities, and you have an ability which does a little damage, gives CC immunity, and procs radiation 15% of the time.  Compare that to Nezha's Fire Walker which does all the same things and more in addition to synergizing with his kit and you will see why I have a problem. In order to properly function he needs to lay down a magic carpet for 50 energy, then his other abilities are half baked. He has a heal which turns off Zenurik and drains at absurd rates when allies are involved, and Reckoning which needs to be spammed in order to be effective due to the fact its CC is only a knockdown and its armor stripping requires that you use it many times in a row to actually strip a target of armor.

 

He needs a means to generate energy within his kit to make his current kit function on a consistent basis.

[Music4Therapy]

46 minutes ago, -N7-Leonhart said:

One of those is a larger energy capacity that will work wonders with Rage btw. But that will probably come when his prime hits, so we will have to see what other changes he has in store.

Did you even read my post? He has too many required mods, he needs every stat, the fact that he NEEDS Rage to function is part of what is holding him back.

 

Its not like Chroma where you can say "ehh, I don't need range or efficiency!" Oberon needs every stat, max efficiency, Primed Flow if you can fit it, Natural Talent because his cast times are absurd, etc..... having to require Rage AND max Efficiency independantly to function is stupid.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[-QUILL_PETER-]

45 minutes ago, InsanityKey said:

-snip-

So do you have any actual constructive criticism or suggestions, or do you just like to flip out? Posting something like this on the forums with this attitude is tantamount to begging DE to ignore you.

[redeyedtreefrog]

exactly ONE thing needs to happen. Renewal needs to not be a channeled or toggled ability. It needs to be a cast.

Oberon is an energy-hungry, cast-happy frame. He is all about casting his powers, ALL THE TIME. This works well in the situation of hallowed ground, which can be cast as many times as you like in as many places as you like, so long as you have the energy. Similarly, reckoning will always find something useful to do if you cast it in a pinch, with good temp CC. Smite is a great ability for saying nope to every napalm you see, and I often find myself just running around smiting napalms and heavy gunners. Again. Cast-happy.

Then we've got renewal. It's a toggled ability, but more akin to a channel, since it has passive drain. The fun thing about renewal is, it's got a burst heal when you first activate it (though, is it just me or did that burst heal's value get LOWERED with the channel hotfix?). This means that the best HP/sec method is to cast renewal, immediately cancel it, and cast it again. Rinse and repeat. You see, the channeled effect actively works against the ability. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Make renewal a one-and-done energy cost, just like all of his powers, so it will actually synergize with his playstyle.

[Xekrin]

7 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

EDIT: Its moronic that Rage is "required". It doesn't even work in late game due to 1-shots and his lack of an energy mechanic is what is holding him back now as a frame.

I ran the energy reduction sortie yesterday with rage oberon and managed to survive various onslaughts (died once, had phoenix), it was pretty amusing but yes quite silly that rage is the only way to make oberon somewhat interesting.

Duration removal and making it a toggle was foolish.  I personally think the prework mechanic was neat and just needed a few tweaks. Mostly a slightly faster travel time between allies and oberon.  Having that plus a decent duration that keeps healing after full would have been fine.

whatevs.

[Music4Therapy]

-snip-

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[shyguyk]

2 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

 

Duration removal and making it a toggle was foolish.  

Before they made it a toggle you had to build negative duration to use phoenix renewal to make sure u didnt top off, stopping the regen. Building negative duration also screws hallowed ground and all of his other augments

[Netzwerkfehler]

Tbh oberon isnt paladin like at all. They prolly dont want him to be one, because the upcoming frame looks like one.

I think a paladin has to protect hos allies. He can do that by granting buffs and soak up damage for his team

[Xekrin]

8 minutes ago, shyguyk said:

Before they made it a toggle you had to build negative duration to use phoenix renewal to make sure u didnt top off, stopping the regen.

Because they thought making duration increase the healing per second and therefore fewer seconds was better than a little over a longer duration.

It was the healing version of saryn's old miasma IIRC, which they eventually fixed.  That too was a mistake and they just replaced it with another.  3rd time is supposed to be the charm.  We'll see.