Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[IamRageypoo]

21 minutes ago, Bravely_Casual said:

So do you have any actual constructive criticism or suggestions, or do you just like to flip out? Posting something like this on the forums with this attitude is tantamount to begging DE to ignore you.

"constructive criticism" is obviously subjective here, if a disagreement is attitude you're not prepared to comment on the matter. 

[redeyedtreefrog]

I originally had high hopes for the Oberon rework. Before, renewal was a problem-riddled ability in which many players agreed on what the problem was: Renewal had a channeled gimmick that caused many problems.

So, when I saw that the channeled gimmick of renewal was being kept, BUT its range was being nerfed, I was honestly speechless. I couldn't figure out any scenario in which that was a buff.

Then DE released the only bit of news about the rework that I was truly excited about: renewal would stay attached to allies at full health! This was one of the big problems with renewal, and I was incredibly happy to see it happen. I had renewed (hehehe) hope in the rework.

Then we're hit with this hotfix to renewal. The post itself mentioned that the rework was rushed out, and these changes show it. This toggled heal makes no sense on oberon. It might make more sense on a more channel-heavy frame, but oberon isn't like that at all. Oberon is a caster. He casts his abilities repeatedly, like a hammer strikes an anvil, to pound the battlefield into submission. A channeled heal doesn't fit into that style.

Further, renewal was and is more profitable as a healing device if it's cast, cancelled immediately, and re-cast, in order to keep getting that healing burst at the beginning of the toggle. The regeneration isn't the main healing device, after all- it's the burst. The regen is a nice bonus that allows you to top yourself off for less energy cost if you're not in the middle of a firefight, but quickly falls off otherwise. So, the most effective use of renewal is to cast reckoning, then renewal, then CANCEL renewal, then cast renewal again if you're not at full health.

If you haven't figured it out already, the obvious solution is to not require renewal to be cancelled in order to be cast again. That would simply require the removal of the unwieldy energy drain tacked onto the tail end of the original renewal... Which is the OPPOSITE direction that DE went. Disappointed is an understatement.

 

tl;dr: make renewal function like it did pre-rework but remove the energy drain and inverse scaling of the regenerative effect. Oh and give him back his infinite range aka the only thing that could have ever made oberon even a SIDEgrade to trinity in even a single scenario.

[Milinko]

When he first got updated I thought oh that's some really cool stuff from what I read I thought holy crap that's awesome heals, armor, armor removal oh good golly I can't wait got to play him for like 10 minutes with a bunch of randoms and I was getting a fair bit of damage out at the time then I realized I was using the Dread and I started watching Brozimes stream and stood in absolute astonishment. Then DE fixed it which I said would happen in Brozimes stream and now I feel Oberon is so guuud but, yes there is a but, his abilities are not synergy they are codependent on each other look at the definitions that's exactly what they are the abilities shouldn't need each other to do something they should use each other to increase their effects but not to set them off. Octavia's 4 doubles the range and can potentially quintuple the damage of her 1. Her 2 picks up her 1 to go around with it that's synergy not in order to get armor you need another ability. The whole energy consumption thing as of right now doesn't bother me because I have 3 builds one maximizes strength and efficiency to get the most armor and heals for me and anyone close in say a defense, and another maximizes range and efficiency to use reckoning for what I did before a poor man's Rhino Stomp that made them fight each other afterwords and it's not to energy hungry because of the energy efficiency the third build goes for everything focuses more on duration and range while keeping everything positive to be well balanced frame that can handle mid level content and aid the team into higher level content. I personally think DE did a good job with this rework and I was probably the only person who didn't want his abilities to change because I got mileage out of him before rework and did fairly well with the same builds. Felt the same with Limbo. If he were to get actual synergy he would definitely be on of the top 10 frames used IMO.

[redeyedtreefrog]

22 minutes ago, Xekrin said:

Duration removal and making it a toggle was foolish

This.

I have nothing else to add.

[mosaickle]

6 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

5) Just use rage? Hope you're enjoying the star chart, bro.

As a self-admitted noob/filthy casual I love the star chart lol

And Rage, but that's cuz I play Inaros a lot

But meh, thats just my noobness, Inaros = tanky af = room for error. I make a lot of errors xD

[Hadden]

TL; DR. Use paragraphs next time.

[continue]

rage/max efficiency oberon seems okay vs 5 level 100 corrupted heavy gunners in a heavily controlled environment.

that is to say, oberon feels basically the same to me as before. i find myself still using the same 7 mods with 8th flexible, i.e. vitality, quick thinking, primed flow, rage, primed continuity, streamline, fleeting expertise. carpet radiation was the only new thing i was really excited about, and it sucks, so reckoning spam is still my main CC tool. the damage and the blind on reckoning suck, so everything but efficiency is basically still optional.

renewal persistence is more of a fix than a buff, and it solves some of the problems of phoenix renewal as well. the armor buff give him (and his teammates) slightly more survivability, but imo it should be innate to renewal, because it also feels more like a fix than a buff. the armor debuff on reckoning i actually appreciate a bit more because i spam reckoning so much though. overall he's still just a dude with a hp regen and a hard knockdown that doesn't really synergize with other CC frames because he's reliant on a cycle of taking damage and then CCing to regen while literally everybody else in the game depends on not taking damage because that's what scales best into endgame. 

tl;dr playing oberon still feels like i'm trying to sail a boat made of swiss cheese but at least now it's grade A swiss cheese that can strip armor.

[Music4Therapy]

3 minutes ago, Atylia said:

As a self-admitted noob/filthy casual I love the star chart lol

And Rage, but that's cuz I play Inaros a lot

But meh, thats just my noobness, Inaros = tanky af = room for error. I make a lot of errors xD

And there is nothing wrong with that! Making sure the game is balanced for both late gamers and casual players is difficult, the frames that may do well in lower level content may not do so well later on. That's why I've been pushing so hard to get this change through, it'd be a massive step forward for those that don't view Rage as a viable option in addition to opening up many build paths for Oberon/freeing up much needed mod space.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[(XBOX)Angryspy101]

6 minutes ago, Doomerang said:

But dont u think that nerfed Ash is still better than buffed Oberon lol 

That's the sad part, Oberon is suppose to be a jack of all trade kinda frame yet he's 10x then any frame. Damage? Just bring ash, equinox or mesa. Support? Trinity. Buffs? Rhino, or Equinox. Oberon has nothing special going for him unlike nerfed ash, who atleast has really high scaling damage potential.

[Xekrin]

17 minutes ago, Milinko said:

Wall o'Text

^ these are not fun to read.  Please consider editing your post and separating into paragraphs.  Thank you.

[mosaickle]

8 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

And there is nothing wrong with that! Making sure the game is balanced for both late gamers and casual players is difficult, the frames that may do well in lower level content may not do so well later on. That's why I've been pushing so hard to get this change through, it'd be a massive step forward for those that don't view Rage as a viable option in addition to opening up many build paths for Oberon/freeing up much needed mod space.

Yeah, that being said, the main reason why I'm all for regen on Oberon is because, despite being a filthy casual, I still want to be the best I can to have max benefit for my teammates, especially as a supportish frame. Like Trinity, I refused to play with my friends (WF friends, not IRL friends...I have no IRL friends huehuehue) until I maxed her out so I can support the best I can. That being said, Trinity is getting a tad boring for me now and Oberon seems to be (or DE advertises him to be) the balanced paladin warrior who can deal damage when needed but can also protect allies. I think someone else said somewhere else, Oberon right now isn't a 'jack of all trades' but a 'jackass of none/nothing'. By making his HG have some kind of AoE energy regen pulse (in that case just energy gain, it's not a slow regen [or it could be if DE wants it to be]) he's just another good, worthy alternative to Trinity, just of different playstyle and different utility.

Plus his ultimate. OH GOD his ultimate's juicy af

 

 

See, thing is, I currently have all my WF slots taken up and Oberon's crafted and ready to claim, but I don't feel like he's worth playing right now until he gets more buffs. I want to play him. I want to sell someone I don't use anymore so I can play him. But he just doesn't seem to be as effective as I would want him to be since I want to be as beneficial for the team as I can possibly be.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Atylia

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

9 minutes ago, continue said:

rage/max efficiency oberon seems okay vs 5 level 100 corrupted heavy gunners in a heavily controlled environment.

that is to say, oberon feels basically the same to me as before. i find myself still using the same 7 mods with 8th flexible, i.e. vitality, quick thinking, primed flow, rage, primed continuity, streamline, fleeting expertise. carpet radiation was the only new thing i was really excited about, and it sucks, so reckoning spam is still my main CC tool. the damage and the blind on reckoning suck, so everything but efficiency is basically still optional.

renewal persistence is more of a fix than a buff, and it solves some of the problems of phoenix renewal as well. the armor buff give him (and his teammates) slightly more survivability, but imo it should be innate to renewal, because it also feels more like a fix than a buff. the armor debuff on reckoning i actually appreciate a bit more because i spam reckoning so much though. overall he's still just a dude with a hp regen and a hard knockdown that doesn't really synergize with other CC frames because he's reliant on a cycle of taking damage and then CCing to regen while literally everybody else in the game depends on not taking damage because that's what scales best into endgame. 

tl;dr playing oberon still feels like i'm trying to sail a boat made of swiss cheese but at least now it's grade A swiss cheese that can strip armor.

You have absolutely no strength on him so literally all the new benefits they added to him are gonna kinda suck lol. This includes the status chance on HG.

[IceColdHawk]

21 minutes ago, redeyedtreefrog said:

So, when I saw that the channeled gimmick of renewal was being kept, BUT its range was being nerfed, I was honestly speechless. I couldn't figure out any scenario in which that was a buff.

Don't worry mate, that's why i chime in to help you out!

Keeping an armor buff + passive healing regeneration for you and the whole team for almost forever? Now that's some neat stuff right there. It's like having nidus' garden as an aura. And yes, range is limited but hand on heart, it had infinite range before but needed a bit of time to reach the target and mostly the ally would die before it reaches him.

[Neightrix]

I'll post here since it's the hottest thread at the moment.

My impression is that, when Oberon is solo, or when on a team where teammates are not taking much or any health damage, the energy drain from Renewal seems reasonable. If Oberon's teammates all take health damage, he can lose a lot of energy very quickly. I've had a few instances where, if I was not taking hits to build energy from Rage, I ran out of energy between the teammate drain and casting other abilities normally. I say this as someone who runs a max Primed Flow and 1 full set of Arcane Energize. I can definitely see why players think the drain and energy usage is too high without Rage (some even with Rage).

If I were to make a suggestion, I'd say the energy drain from healing teammates could be lowered to 1/2 or 1/3 of what it currently is. More might need to be done beyond that, but that would be helpful from my perspective.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Neightrix

[continue]

Just now, (PS4)destroyerchris1 said:

You have absolutely no strength on him so literally all the new benefits they added to him are gonna kinda suck lol. This includes the status chance on HG.

yeah the carpet's status chance is pretty abysmal, especially when reckoning guarantees radiation and a knockdown. if radiation by itself were good enough CC then reckoning spam wouldn't be as necessary, so i don't understand why they didn't give carpet a better status chance (not to mention carpet eruption is bugged and doesn't proc radiation 100% of the time). 30% armor stripping aoe being spammed multiple times adds up more than i expected but it's still really nothing to write home about

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

3 minutes ago, continue said:

yeah the carpet's status chance is pretty abysmal, especially when reckoning guarantees radiation and a knockdown. if radiation by itself were good enough CC then reckoning spam wouldn't be as necessary, so i don't understand why they didn't give carpet a better status chance (not to mention carpet eruption is bugged and doesn't proc radiation 100% of the time). 30% armor stripping aoe being spammed multiple times adds up more than i expected but it's still really nothing to write home about

What I'm saying is the status chance and armor strip percentage, armor buff etc.. all go up with power strength. So not having any strength mods on his new build makes you miss out on a lot. His rework is strength heavy.

[continue]

Just now, (PS4)destroyerchris1 said:

What I'm saying is the status chance and armor strip percentage, armor buff etc.. all go up with power strength. So not having any strength mods on his new build makes you miss out on a lot. His rework is strength heavy.

ah, i see. i guess for me i never considered building strength to be viable on oberon to begin with so i didn't really look at it that way.

[-West]

Why Limbo revisit took months of testing , but Oberon's just few days?:)

[Empoly]

 I would like to begin by saying that I do appreciate the changes made in the latest hotfix, but I still am not satisfied by the outcome, since despite Oberon being better now, he still isn't prefered over other frames.

 In the following paragraphs, as most people already have done, I would like to give DE my input on what else can be done for this rework to not be another Saryn or Mag rage effect.

1. Smite still isn't well rounded enough. I would say that instead of 35% of the health of the enemy (that is turned to damage) being split amongst the number of orbs you have, make it so every orb does 10% of the target's health as damage, unaffected my strength mods (unless strength is reduced under 100%). I don't believe the initial impact damage should be modified, due to the fact that the enemy that the ability is cast on is knocked down and has radiation applied to them, BUT I do believe that the duration of the radiation proc should be affected by power duration.

2.Hollowed Ground should have it's base range bumped up to 20 m because it's clear that we are supposed to be camping on it, thus, some breathing room would be quite nice. On top of that, I would like to see something similar to Limbo's 4th: Make the damage of Hollowed Ground be composed of 5%-10% (up to you) of the average between all the health of the enemies currently on top of it's area. Lastly, I would like the status change of the ability to be increased to 30% base, capped at 70%.

3.Renewal was quite well dealt with in the latest hotfix, something which I am very glad about, but I have a few things to add onto it in order to make Oberon a true healer in my opinion: Please do increase the health healed per second and the bonus armor that it provides when you are on top of Hollowed Ground.

4.Reckoning doesn't need more damage, since in my eyes it is more of a CC ability, but I would like it's base range to also be increased to 20 m and the armor removal ability that you gain when you use Reckoning on targets that are on Hollowed Ground to be part of the ability instead of a synergy. I would like to see the base armor removal be 20%-30% (again, up to you to decide) affected by mods, with the ability to reach 100% armor removal.

At last, now that I finished talking about his abilities, I want to mention what nice changes could be made to Oberon's stats:

-Increase Oberon's base armor to 250

-Increase Oberon's base energy to 175 (at rank 30, of course)

 Now, being done with what I had in my mind that could bring the rework to a proper level, I would like to beg you for one last change: Please, give us another passive. Thank you for your time, and I truly hope to see some of these changes in game.

[(XBOX)ultimategamerjr]

Oberon just needed small tweaks while Limbo got completely new abilities and all of his previous abilities changed in major ways.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

1 minute ago, continue said:

ah, i see. i guess for me i never considered building strength to be viable on oberon to begin with so i didn't really look at it that way.

I didn't before because old Oberon strength only gave damage which was negligible and fell off fast at high lvls So I modded him purely for radiation CC. But now it gives you much more benefits. So much so that I believe the new oberon's main stat is strength. You can get HG status chance up there pretty easy to where it procs consistently. You can have your Iron Renewal buff you and the team by a flat 375 armor which is really good. You can get Reckoning to strip 75-80 percent armor off first cast which drastically reduces the amount of times you need to spam it. Not to mention with renewal being a toggle now you don't have to worry about that stupid inverse duration nonsense. So strength purely benefits renewal by giving more health and HoT. You can get these even higher if you go all in with strength but that has to many drawbacks to me. My build is a mix with a focus on power strength, with duration being the next focus and efficiency the next. It works out very well for me.

[RaginGoblin]

Just watched Brozime's video. It was soul crushing T.T.
I wouldn't know how to actually fix oberon, maybe i'll just wait for that heavy gunner to kill him.

 

[(PSN)watt4hem]

[-Onyx-Phalian]

5 minutes ago, MarrikBroom said:

D_Scott has said they want to give Oberon a weekend and come back Monday.

 

Also they said 'We give them an inch and they want a mile.'

 

@[de]Megan I"m unhappy with this apparent backhandedness sounding response.

That's insulting to hear that from Scott. Even on paper Oberon's rework is incredibly flawed. Only moderate amount of energy, high amount of energy required, and the ability required to make your abilities decent has half the range when compared to the abilities it buffs. 

[Tobyfield]

oberon isn't better he does less damage then before and his smite can't kill a lv 1 corrupted heavy gunner with 230 ps. and he does less damage then what was on the dev stream and if there is scaling its not noticeable. go to youtube and watch brozime stream on Oberon. He is by far the worst frame in game atm.