Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Just now, (PS4)TwilightGrim said:

because it is a simpler thing to do, not changing power mechanics, just changing how the numbers in existing powers work 

Actually it isn't as much of a change as it is reverting it back to pre-rework mechanics while giving it the synergy bonus of the current mechanics. 

[CuChulainnWD]

DE Scott has suggest we all take the weekend to play Oberon and see what we can come up with, see what works and does not work.

Is there anyone out there that knows how to collate all of the suggestions, and then turn it into a vote system? We can cast a couple of votes on each section and or package.  This way it will save DE the time combing through all of the threads, it will be a central database of our desired changes voted on by our community. Heck we should have done this a long time ago with many of the reworks. Maybe it will help reduce the salt later on, when the communit majority has cast their vote on the changes they would like to see made.

We can break the changes into catagories and groups, from energy consumption on abilities. Stat buffs, Passives, and ability tweeks based on ability. List them all. Some as package deals, others individually. Let's keep in mind that Oberon's kit though relying on synergy with other abilities does seem to do a lot. Armour buff debuff, heal, increase bleed out timer, heal, proc rad etc. These things I am sure we would like to see kept, but what can DE do to make these abilities work better?

Edited April 28, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[The_Grimmrock]

Id like to see a reduced cost or a flat cost to renewal

Id like to see a much higher proc chance for radiation on Hallowed ground

Id like to see reckoning give 25% chance of health orbs on enemies affected, or killed after affected, but not on death by.

[Ceadeus]

4 hours ago, Bravely_Casual said:

So do you have any actual constructive criticism or suggestions, or do you just like to flip out? Posting something like this on the forums with this attitude is tantamount to begging DE to ignore you.

 

I have no idea which comment this is that you're responding to.  I'm just gonna cover a broad area and go with this, saying things that shouldn't be done is still constructive.  If nothing else it gives the developers an idea what to steer away from.

[MortalMercenary]

If anything at all we could change the most is either give Oberon a bigger energy pool or better energy efficiency and maybe just give Renewal infinite range along with increasing the range of Hallowed Ground (along with more definitive marker of the range of it)

[Alchemist_Rai]

I really enjoy the rework, though i think the renewal duration time thing should be looked into. Oh and i know DE is working on it but i think hallowed ground should get like a border so it is easier to see. oh and i uh, can hallowed reckoning maybe get a look at with it's scaling with range?

ty for buffing oberon DE. you

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Seems I couldn't reply in the other threads about Oberon's energy consumption.

 

Specifically, I have concerns about whether or not DE intends to not have Oberon be Trial friendly.

1st LoR stage with constant health drain seems like Oberon would be useless healing himself, 7 allies, and their Companions.

Not sure if 3 energy per second per ally healed would be feasible.

I think that is excessive, at the least.

 

(After the energy per heal is toned down, I think either Hallowed Ground Kills regenerating energy or Reckoning Marking enemies with chance to drop Health/Energy orb (50% chance of one or the other, with marking being duration based) Could assist in making Oberon casting combinations sustainable.)*

Edited April 28, 2017 by (PS4)MrNishi

[-Onyx-Phalian]

4 minutes ago, Alchemist_Rai said:

I really enjoy the rework, though i think the renewal duration time thing should be looked into. Oh and i know DE is working on it but i think hallowed ground should get like a border so it is easier to see. oh and i uh, can hallowed reckoning maybe get a look at with it's scaling with range?

ty for buffing oberon DE. you

Actually AGayGuyPlays has suggested that Hallowed Ground have magical looking grass (using resources from the upcoming Earth update) and possibly plants from the Silver Grove to tie in its roots to nature as Oberon is described as a Druidic Paladin. 

[CuChulainnWD]

Is there someone out there that is able to collate all of these ideas and form a voting table for us? It really would give DE the focus they need to make our community imput heard clearly. It may end up becoming the standard by which DE bases their future reworks. I think it would save us all a lot of headaches and for DE the hassal in combing through all of these seperate threads trying to find a consensus. If someone has an idea to add to the table, then they can ask to have it added. All we as a communit have to do is vote on each section of the reworks individually and or as a package deal per section.

There is a lot of noise and chatter going on. It can be difficult to keep track of it all. This way we have one central place to go to make our voice heard as a collective.

Edited April 28, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[Chipputer]

Here, look. I've played way too long after only starting around when Chroma was released. Oberon has been mah boi since almost day 1.

I've used him 30% of my play time. I only have 9% on my next highest used frame, which is Ember Prime. This should explain to you just how often I used him and still do.

This is the build I will be using for my feedback, which will be extremely simple and to the point. Note that Hallowed Reckoning is able to be flexed out for anything else that fits and I specifically set him up so that I could use any aura that I wanted. I often swap Hallowed Reckoning for Rage, depending on what group I'm running with.

Passive Changes:

I honestly feel like I was one of the few people who didn't mind his old passive, but his new one can be useful. Problem is that I use Helios Prime so I get nothing out of it. It definitely comes in handy for the few times I run a Kavat or my Helminth, however. Don't care one way or the other on this, in the end. I'll miss being able to turn hordes of enemy cats and dogs against them, but it's not like that was too useful to begin with.

Smite Changes:

Smite was always useful and it's now just slightly more. The secondary radiation proc along with the guaranteed knockdown on the initial target, the guaranteed staggers with puncture and/or possible radiation proc on the orbs have always made it a good ranged CC+damage option. Now it has a possibility of scaling its damage up so that it doesn't become a pure CC cast later on. It has never been a super damage dealer, anyway, and the changes have done nothing but help it remain useful. A++. 100% change.

Hallowed Ground:

The super wide range it carries, now, has made it go from a situationally useful strip of shag carpeting into a widely useful semi-circle of glowy bits. Just like before, the secondary DoT is nothing to write home about, but the party benefits it brings are still just as useful as they always were. The radiation procs from enemies walking on them has made it into a staple of my new rotation, now. Dropping one at a choke point and retreating a bit back will cause enemies to actually draw aggro to each other, much in the same way a long ranged Smite would. The added armor buff from casting Renewal on allies standing in the ground, and armor removal with Reckoning, have made it too good to not have up at any time when the party isn't zooming through the level at top speed.

Renewal:

While I'm not happy with it becoming a shorter ranged ring, I am more than happy enough to make up for that by the fact that it's now, essentially, a toggle. Thank you for this. In a solo situation I can put Rage on my Oberon, turn on Renewal, and walk through the level getting healed at a constant tick with Rage replenishing the energy that I've lost. It's not enough to keep up with top level damage, but it's enough to help me make up for the mistakes I might make. The fact that it still retains the proc removal (much like Hallowed Ground) upon healing someone to full health and now has a much faster casting time has made it much more user friendly to use.

Reckoning:

Since, essentially, no changes were made to Reckoning except making it have an armor debuff on Hallowed Ground and dealing extra damage to radiated enemies, there's not much to say. It's still good for the AoE knockdown, the secondary blind, and the guaranteed radiation proc that it delivers, and it's still good supplemental damage in the early to mid levels, if not an outright low level nuke skill.

Overall:

The changes were nothing but positive, minus Renewal having its range shortened. I'm so glad that you managed to refresh Oberon without completely changing him and I can continue to main him without thinking about what once was since he's essentially just Oberon 2: Better Oberon. I can still find a place in any party, as long as they aren't die hard Noberons, and I can still adapt to literally any situation that I come across.

Suggestions:

My only real suggestions would be to look into Hallowed Ground creating a circular patch centered on Oberon, rather than a semi-circle in front of him and to look into Oberon's energy pool, considering what his new Renewal mechanics are. Personally, I have no issues with just turning Zenurik on or using Rage, but someone who doesn't have these tools is going to be looking at a frame that's difficult to use due to all of their resources being dedicated to offense or defense, rather than the adaptability that Oberon should be known for.

 

 

Thank you for not ruining my favorite frame. Thank you for keeping his essence intact. Thank you for taking some time to collect feedback instead of listening to the knee-jerk reactionaries and people who never even played him, to begin with.

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, CuChulainnWD said:

Is there someone out there that is able to collate all of these ideas and form a voting table for us? It really would give DE the focus they need to make our community imput heard clearly. It may end up becoming the standard by which DE bases their future reworks. I think it would save us all a lot of headaches and for DE the hassal in combing through all of these seperate threads trying to find a consensus. If someone has an idea to add to the table, then they can ask to have it added. All we as a communit have to do is vote on each section of the reworks individually and or as a package deal per section.

There is a lot of noise and chatter going on. It can be difficult to keep track of it all. This way we have one central place to go to make our voice heard as a collective.

I am sure DE would be able to comb through the threads. Currently this thread has been working as Oberon's Rework Thread. I believe in DE that they can at least read a thread (though this is questionable since Xenogellion practically handed them a wonderful idea for Oberon's rework in one of his previous videos).

[blackheartstar_pc]

I like your overview and fully agree he came out better than he went in.

[Bluknight34]

The rework I think is a step in the right direction....

As for making any ability scale based on a percentage of health points or shield is bad because it doesnt scale enough in warframe. 

Instead I would forget scaling and do something that allows stacking of damage just like we've seen with other frames already and works very well.

You have Equinox 4th ability that stacks damage and is then unleashed on reactivation. There is Nidus ability which does more damage the more stacks that you have. And now you also have nezhas firewalker augment that allows the stacking of damage and unleashed on recast.

My opinion I would increase the range of hallowed ground if thats what his ability synergy is going to revolve around and create damage stacking like equinox 4th ability through damage done by hallowed ground and allow that damage to be used through smite, have the initial target take 25-50% of that damage and the other 50-75% split up between orbs. 

So the way this would work would be, Cast hallowed ground to make an AOE begin stacking damage based on number of effected targets which would obviously be determined by both power strength and duration of hallowed ground. Then cast reckoning to strip armor and unleash stacked damage on group of enemies by casting smite. I think that would be the best possible synergy for him and to bring to the table what the devs were going for and what he needs to be closer to what the community is looking for.

 

[blazeshadow44]

Before i begin, you guys came up with amazing tweaks with Oberon and made it to where people do not denounce my ability when i bring my Broberon with me (yet sometimes i ended up with 4x more kills and saves than they had in the past) and there is only a little bit i think is needed to fix, which my top two is the FX of hallowed ground and the armor debuff of reckoning when used in tangen with hallowed ground.

with hallowed ground visual FX, some of us, one of them being Rob from Agayguyplays, believe that the FX was going to have some of the new Earth remaster look added to it, a garden placed on the field by the energy of the fairy kind/druid/paladin warframe.  I was really excited by this shared idea because it would almost hit close to home with my King's Grove, a hallowed ground rework of mine.

The armor debuff to enemies, on the other hand is of a higher concern.  the debuff is not really that strong and is not very showable until you throw them to the ground 5-10 times. this makes the cost of 50 energy for hallowed ground and 100 energy (if nothing is done with effeciency) a very high cost.

well that is my feedback for the rework seeya.

 

Oh, also the drain of energy from oberon's renewal 20.3.1 is a little bit fast at increasing in energy drain.... maybe tweak it to increase in cost more slowly?

[cookieknife]

Where i want oberon is somewhere on the same level as base armor (or even less) as atlas and i want hallowed ground to have a buff other than synergy based. i think the old 20% + armor would be ok with the flat increase, id like a 50% though. i also think that renewal if you're getting drained 16x

Quote

(not as realistic but ive gotten 7x in a normal survival)

you should be rewarded with some kind of buff to yourself. so you dont die when your energy drops to 0 like it definitely is going to

[-Onyx-Phalian]

8 minutes ago, blazeshadow44 said:

Before i begin, you guys came up with amazing tweaks with Oberon and made it to where people do not denounce my ability when i bring my Broberon with me (yet sometimes i ended up with 4x more kills and saves than they had in the past) and there is only a little bit i think is needed to fix, which my top two is the FX of hallowed ground and the armor debuff of reckoning when used in tangen with hallowed ground.

with hallowed ground visual FX, some of us, one of them being Rob from Agayguyplays, believe that the FX was going to have some of the new Earth remaster look added to it, a garden placed on the field by the energy of the fairy kind/druid/paladin warframe.  I was really excited by this shared idea because it would almost hit close to home with my King's Grove, a hallowed ground rework of mine.

The armor debuff to enemies, on the other hand is of a higher concern.  the debuff is not really that strong and is not very showable until you throw them to the ground 5-10 times. this makes the cost of 50 energy for hallowed ground and 100 energy (if nothing is done with effeciency) a very high cost.

well that is my feedback for the rework seeya.

 

Oh, also the drain of energy from oberon's renewal 20.3.1 is a little bit fast at increasing in energy drain.... maybe tweak it to increase in cost more slowly?

If the armor shred were based on the opponent's total armor instead of their current armor, it would be much stronger. I have commented this in AGayGuyPlays video and he mentioned that most warframe armor shred is from current armor. Though I believe there is an argument to be made that this is the only one which requires 2 abilities to be used in combination, let alone one of them being a 4 so it would cost quite a bit of energy, the most energy of any warframe to strip armor from their enemy. 

[Pope_Luci]

I really hope DE reads this. 

Oberon is my favorite warframe and my main, he is good and so are his abilities, they're just not quite there yet. I really tried to think of ways to fix and/or strengthen him with what is currently available and without changing him too much. 

 

1.) Smite - Great as is.

Smite I feel is great, I always thought it was a good 1 and the scaling recently implemented makes it that much better.

 

2.) Hallowed Ground - Add damage reduction % and change it to an aura. Damage reduction given to allies when used with Renewal.

As for Hallowed Ground I feel it should be an aura that follows him, I think of like Octavia's Mallet in terms of size and how it would work, except it radiates from Oberon not the mallet of course. I think it could work the same as it does now, you cast it for whatever energy it costs and the aura simply lasts for whatever the duration is. It would fix having to basically camp one little area, if it was an aura you could still move around freely which honestly I feel is one of the main problems with it right now. I also feel that the armor buff that it gives in conjunction with Renewal is far too weak. 250-400ish armor while better than nothing is honestly nothing especially in higher levels, I think it should be changed to a damage reduction % like maybe 50% base which can be increased with power strength, or something along those lines. For allies the HG aura emits a pulse with the same range as whatever Renewals wave is now, that applies the damage reduction % buff on allies. For the status removal and knockdown allies would have to be within the aura. Or at the very least give a significant buff to the amount of armor the current system gives.

 

3.) Renewal - Allow for energy regeneration from abilities and/or reduce energy drain.

Overall I quite like the direction taken with Renewal, I've already become quite accustomed to having the steady regen I just think it needs to be more economical energy-wise. I would agree with many that feel that the energy consumption on Oberon right now is definitely an issue, even with max efficiency, primed flow, and rage you can run dry quickly. I would propose allowing energy restores like EV and Zenurik Energy Overflow etc work while Renewal is up. I agree that it should have some drain but I mean Valkyr has a similar drain but she is invincible during that time, and the regen and slight armor buff if used with HG hardly makes Oberon or his team mates invincible so I feel an ability that does less should carry less of a burden. So there needs to be some way to still be able to use your other abilities and play normally with having Renewal up without having to basically have a max efficiency and constantly take damage from Rage to be able to maintain it. 

 

4.) Reckoning - Reduced energy cost, increase effectiveness of armor reduction.

I feel that Reckoning is actually pretty good where it is, however as far as the armor reduction that was added goes, to be blunt it just needs to be better. For an ability that costs 100 energy on a frame that can get a little over 400 energy max to need to cast an ability over 6 times to be able to strip armor is just silly. Instead of radiated enemies taking that bonus damage why not make it strip a larger portion of their armor. If the armor can't be stripped within like 1 or 2 casts it's really not even worth it to have. Also if the damage scaling that was implemented into Smite to make the damage better on higher lvl enemies could be implemented on Reckoning, well that would just be lovely.

 

So in summary I propose to leave Smite as is. Remove the armor buff from Renewal, keep the regen effect the way it is with more economical energy costs, and add a damage reduction % to HG which would be changed to an aura that follows Oberon around. The damage reduction buff could be refreshed on allies by using the Renewal wave like it is now just swap the armor buff for damage reduction. However if teammates wanted the knockdown immunity or status removal they would need to be in the aura. I'd like to get away from the hobbled feel HG has now. HG would be cast and cost the same as now with the damage reduction being on HG's timer. This would create synergy in the way that you'd have good reason to cast HG and renewal and to keep them up, while using Smite and Reckoning for moderate damage and crowd control, and as stated above make the armor reduction on Reckoning stronger as the amount of casts needed to remove armor costs more energy than Oberon is even capable of having, and using all your energy to strip armor one time, while also losing the effects of all other abilities, is just worthless and even detrimental. Lastly I would propose more economical energy costs or leniency on how energy can be restored while Renewal is up and possibly even increasing his energy pool.

 

If any of this sounds like it would make Oberon too strong just keep in mind, which I'm sure you're already well aware, frames like Trinity, Rhino, Valkyr, Octavia, Mesa, Nidus and many others. Frames that can get almost complete damage reduction, ignore effects and knockdowns, heal vast amounts of health and energy, buff allies, do large amounts of damage, and a high level of crowd control etc. All of these frames do what I'm purposing Oberon be able to do, much better than what I'm suggesting for Oberon, but what will be nice is that Oberon can do it all, maybe not the best or as focused as one of the aforementioned, but good enough that people consider him an asset, which sadly that is not the level he is currently at, which is of course common knowledge and agreed upon by many hence the revisit taking place. However I do enjoy his playstyle and feel he's not far off from where he should be. I feel these changed would make Oberon actually good, and he would actually fulfill his role as a sort of offensive support or as many say Jack of all Trades. Good CC and adding survivability and sustainability to the team while at the same time not overpowered is what I aimed for with this.

 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Laamb12

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Just now, MarrikBroom said:

As much as i like the idea of Infinite Renewal... Limit it to 50 Meters so he's on parity with Trinity. People have to be close, but not cuddle range.

They have to cuddle up if they want Iron Renewal. Good luck finding the Hallowed Ground in the chaos of battle in time for that with its current range. 

[Phyrak]

Reckoning needs a buff.

Vs rad proc'd foes, it is a damage gain of some 500 - impact, one would think considering how reckoning works...which doesn't scale greatly

I suggest thusly,

Boost its range to match that of hallowed ground

Turn the bonus damage to rad proc'd foes into multiplicative damage.

Eg. 

3x-6x damage multi on rad proc'd foes scaling with power strength

[-Onyx-Phalian]

1 minute ago, Phyrak said:

Reckoning needs a buff.

Vs rad proc'd foes, it is a damage gain of some 500 - impact, one would think considering how reckoning works...which doesn't scale greatly

I suggest thusly,

Boost its range to match that of hallowed ground

Turn the bonus damage to rad proc'd foes into multiplicative damage.

Eg. 

3x-6x damage multi on rad proc'd foes scaling with power strength

Last time I checked, Reckoning had a longer range than Hallowed Ground (Currently looking at my Oberon right now). Though having Hallowed Ground range increased to match Reckoning would be a welcome boost. 

[Phyrak]

2 minutes ago, Phalian said:

Last time I checked, Reckoning had a longer range than Hallowed Ground (Currently looking at my Oberon right now). Though having Hallowed Ground range increased to match Reckoning would be a welcome boost. 

Range in general is well needed for Oberon

[-Onyx-Phalian]

Just now, Phyrak said:

Range in general is well needed for Oberon

That and giving back the armor to Hallowed Ground. If DE gives us the magic grass effect for it as well, all I would need to say is "Hey, the magic grass gives you armor!" and I swear people would be swarming to the grass like a Garen main in League of Legends :P

[Phyrak]

Just now, Phalian said:

That and giving back the armor to Hallowed Ground. If DE gives us the magic grass effect for it as well, all I would need to say is "Hey, the magic grass gives you armor!" and I swear people would be swarming to the grass like a Garen main in League of Legends :P

Aye

Perhaps small percentile damage reduction sided with armour from the synergy?

[-Onyx-Phalian]

13 minutes ago, Phyrak said:

Aye

Perhaps small percentile damage reduction sided with armour from the synergy?

I was thinking more along the lines of Hallowed Ground giving half as much armor as Iron Renewal currently does. When using Renewal on Hallowed Ground, it would double the armor bonus (to match current) and stay on you even when you move off of the Hallowed Ground. If this sounds like it would make Oberon too tanky, they can easily make it so that the armor from Iron Renewal doesn't stack with Hallowed Ground's armor. Effectively keeping what many people loved about the old Hallowed Ground while also giving it the new synergy. 

This would make Hallowed Ground be able to not only be a key for synergy but also have its own strengths. Though it would be nice if the range was increased to match Reckoning. 

Edited April 28, 2017 by Phalian

[Vastia]

Nice visual rework  ... i know that the community is divided between "Oberon is better now" and "Oberon is worst than before".. from my point of view, nothing had changed, i feel like playing with the same oberon as pre-20.3.1 patch, the only difference are visual effects. It's a shame, cuz Oberon really needed some buff and it could make me return to wf... DE, you're not getting money from Oberon prime, and depending on feedback i think we might have it delayed... well guess i'll just be returning just to play some quest.