Oberon Feedback 20.3.1 and beyond

[Doomsknightmare]

Well said.

[Urlan]

3 minutes ago, (PS4)Riko_113 said:

I didn't label him as a child. I suggested that him even having an argument at this point was childish since he doesn't have first hand knowledge of the subject.

I also did not mention at all that I had an issue with him having an opinion I disagree with. I said he doesn't have enough information to even have an opinion because he, like myself, is on a console that the update doesn't even exist on yet. He hasn't even tried the change, only listened to other players' rants. Based purely on other players comments on this subject though, I've actually heard more positive feedback than negative. Having no access to the update I am reserving judgement until I've actually tried it for myself to see if I enjoy it or foresee problems with the changes.

Your comment was on the grounds of he was not being an adult by making choices based on his understanding of the subject from what he can gather from videos, player threads, and veteran testimony. Your point that one can not truly develop their own opinion without their own experience is valid ultimately but saying that someone's interpretation is not in line with the actions of an adult says rather than implies that they are a child. In this case, as you have identified, you and Brigand are in the same boat with neither having true hands-on input into the current rework yet; however this doesn't mean you can't be part of that journey. DE Scott has made it clear in the last Devstream that he is looking at player feedback currently but considered Oberon complete as is. You can take from feedback threads on the subject that while there is good with the bad, some would feel Oberon overall has improved just as some feel Oberon has not really come out of his low place on the warframe totem pole that players like to grade warframes on. By the logic you used Riko, you probably should be taking a wait and see on criticizing Brigand until the consoles have their update - which we all understand will come - that isn't really an issue; the opinion might not be the most productive in its current format, but Brigand for them as much validity as your stance has for your.

[Nirune]

2 minutes ago, Arandabido said:

I'm conflicted here. I see your opinion and i kinda agree.

But also, i've found that Oberon works great with this toggle renewal, rage, and phoenix renewal.... but now thinking about it, i'm a pseudo Wukong with it.

Yeah, take the toggle out. I'd rather charge up energy with Zenurik focus (which is my fav) than having to rely on damage to have energy to cast a synergy of skills that demands a ton of energy. (that makes you a pseudo Mag now that i think about it)

Phoenix renewal only works once per person or so the mod says, meaning its only useful for you or your party once. with a 90 sec cool down meaning any time say a sortie juggernaut comes it'll only rez one person when you know typically when he does kill he cleaves the poop out of most of the party.

[Music4Therapy]

8 hours ago, Music4Therapy said:

Yeah, the people that don't understand that Utility > Survivability are going to kill this. As someone who used to play Chroma a lot in the past, I prefer Oberon over him because of the CC and other utility he provides. If people want to walk around and not use his other abilities thinking "omg I'm op" they should give Chroma a try, because he is literally 50x+ the tank Oberon is.

For the people in the back.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

6 minutes ago, Music4Therapy said:

And because of that stupid video and the fact Xeno can talk directly to Scott, don't be surprised if that gets nerfed.

Its makes zero sense. "omg if I sacrifice the rest of my kit I can tank sorties" <-- wtf? Clearly his Iron Renewal buff wasn't all that great because Mogamu died several times in the video. Because he turned himself in Chroma Lite, he didn't have the CC or utility to prevent Mogamu from dying. Clearly stacking Iron Renewal is neither OP nor intelligent, again why not just play Chroma at that point?

I will quit the game if he gets nerfed because some guy found a party trick, because its literally all it is. Mirage is a better tank than Oberon, she gets 95% DR from Eclipse and a decoy mechanic. Mesa is a better tank via Scatter Shield. Rhino. Chroma. Wukong. Inaros.

Its a joke.

Him and mogamu both died at like the 30min mark... Yeah it's so OP lol

[Urlan]

Good feedback, I think its important to hear more about how Oberon players are feeling Oberon currently performs.

[Suira]

2 minutes ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

I absolutely agree! But wouldn't it be useful to maintain that use of CC without abandoning it? Like I mentioned in the original thread, I don't want the feature you were talking about to go away (Quite the contrary actually since I want HG to cover more range by making it a circle), but i want Oberon to always benefit from HG, and being able to plant HG mines while carryinging around a weaker one yourself seems ideal for CC to me. Hallpwed ground is actually a super utility ability for the team, but I feel that it's not quite useful enough to have his entire kit based around it.

Haha, gotta love that Phoenix renewal! 

Yes, but I also understand that DE probably wants a quick fix to Oberon to hopefully balance him out. 
Having the ability to carry around HG might also cause frame rate lag for a lot of players.
I do like the idea of using it to give Oberon more energy. This is good synergy. Maybe buff the range a bit, but I can be content with it's present range.

[The_Grimmrock]

I just find it disturbing that 5, maybe 6 players in the community, that happen to be major content creators have the ear of developers fairly readily, and in the case of Xeno, directly

which means whats fine for THOSE 5 PEOPLE is whats most likely to come about.

what happens to the other 60k of us? I literally made 2 videos for the first time in almost a year JUST to gather the information that the reddit was putting out on our problems with oberon as a general community, not as a group of 5 individuals. 

I think the community has been fairly unified in his problems, if not unified in his solutions, but because Xeno has the direct ear of scott, the guy who thinks Oberon is "Okay" Im worried that they'll nerf out the one good/borked thing about him <Superhigh STR Iron-Renewal and Neg Eff> without fixing the problems that make that build the only late game viable build for most players. 

and FOR THE RECORD I dont use Xenos build, its too limiting, I cant use the CC's I need to in late game often enough to keep renewal going, because the only reason Im ever alive with that build is because of the H/T and the Armor, and I HAVE to keep that active because if I don't no amount of CC is going to keep me going. 

Oberon, as stated, is best when all his skills are viably utilized, and unfortunately his best build discards 75% of his kit, to be a worse Chroma/Inaros/Nidus with none of their additional utilites or damage. 

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

17 minutes ago, Suira said:

Yes, but I also understand that DE probably wants a quick fix to Oberon to hopefully balance him out. 
Having the ability to carry around HG might also cause frame rate lag for a lot of players.
I do like the idea of using it to give Oberon more energy. This is good synergy. Maybe buff the range a bit, but I can be content with it's present range.

It's unfortunate that DE has to scrap so much because they are on such a fast paced schedule (I can't necessarily put judgment on them because they have to run a buisness) but i really would like them to continue to touch up Oberon. I know asking for a "pick up" mechanic on HG is perhaps too much to ask, but having HG as a circle will buff the range at base by 50% without having to adjust practically anything in his abilities, and an energy regen would silence a lot of renewal complaints. I just hope they continue to handle his rework responsibly and take their time when debating what players and developers want without bulldozing either party.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

You'd take

Low percentuall armor buffs, lackluster heals, low numeric damage (even for this kinda ability) on a glass cannon with a useless passive

over numerical(!) armor buffs, thus affordable power management, potent healing and the same kinda damage plus extra damage and armor depell plus scaling damage? With a actually somewhat usefull passive?

 

mind sharing the drugs? sound fun

 

seriously tho...the rework is a straight up buff to what oberon is. WTF.

[(PSN)destroyerchris1]

5 minutes ago, Grimmboski said:

I just find it disturbing that 5, maybe 6 players in the community, that happen to be major content creators have the ear of developers fairly readily, and in the case of Xeno, directly

which means whats fine for THOSE 5 PEOPLE is whats most likely to come about.

what happens to the other 60k of us? I literally made 2 videos for the first time in almost a year JUST to gather the information that the reddit was putting out on our problems with oberon as a general community, not as a group of 5 individuals. 

I think the community has been fairly unified in his problems, if not unified in his solutions, but because Xeno has the direct ear of scott, the guy who thinks Oberon is "Okay" Im worried that they'll nerf out the one good/borked thing about him <Superhigh STR Iron-Renewal and Neg Eff> without fixing the problems that make that build the only late game viable build for most players. 

and FOR THE RECORD I dont use Xenos build, its too limiting, I cant use the CC's I need to in late game often enough to keep renewal going, because the only reason Im ever alive with that build is because of the H/T and the Armor, and I HAVE to keep that active because if I don't no amount of CC is going to keep me going. 

Oberon, as stated, is best when all his skills are viably utilized, and unfortunately his best build discards 75% of his kit, to be a worse Chroma/Inaros/Nidus with none of their additional utilites or damage. 

Another bothersome thing is xeno praising armor stripping.... One it's based on current armor. Two it only applies to enemies reckoned in the radius of hallowed ground which in his case would be abysmal with no range. Three it's takes 2 ability casts to have. Four even with a dump focus into strength he still couldn't strip 100% armor WITH the help of corrosive projection... He got like 80%. Meanwhile Frost is laughing at him as he strips all armor on a single cast all while maintaining CC capabilities lol.

[LazyKnight]

4 minutes ago, Grimmboski said:

I just find it disturbing that 5, maybe 6 players in the community, that happen to be major content creators have the ear of developers fairly readily, and in the case of Xeno, directly

I would rather Scott (or the other people at DE) just execute their own vision and ignore YouTube. 

Just now, (PS4)destroyerchris1 said:

Another bothersome thing is xeno praising armor stripping.... One it's based on current armor. T

Armor striping with Oberon's '4' is not even worth praising, There are cheaper ways to strip armor (even solo) that do not have all the limitations. It's quicker to just use a weapon like pox and then finish off the Ai with whatever. 

 

 

[Buddhakingpen]

If i'm being realistic, the only  thing out of this that would could probably happen would be the armor debuff on reckoning,, but idealistically i dont see why these shouldnt happen(except the orb drops on hit fromj reckoning. waaaaay exploitable), nothing too imbalanced, even tho oberon is fine right now so its good in my book. 
 

Personally i'd like to see reckoning have its blind mechanic removed entirely in favor of more hard stats. Either more total range, innate armor shred, or making orb drop chance affected by power strength. 

[HalfDarkShadow]

Great thoughts on the matter! It's actually nice to read and hear a view from a player who plays and understands Oberon from under-the-hood (or any Warframe for that matter). It was a decent insight at least since Oberon unfortunately is one of the Warframes I don't feel I have nearly enough experience with to give any sort of informed opinion that isn't surface-level. Such as feeling: if anything, he feels like he's in a much better place now than previously at least in some respects (but still desired in other aspects).

Even aesthetically speaking, being a bit irked of what they changed his second visually to, mostly because....
(put it in spoilers since it's a bit of a side thought)

Spoiler

if feels like it was cutting corners a bit and using Equinox's assets, as well as being able to see another player's 20+ meter Hallowed Ground but yet you can only see a rough 5 meter radius around Equinox when Mend or Maim is active. This is an actual issue especially when it comes to Mend because you can not tell at all how far you need to gauge her when you need a heal and a player is about to set off the heal burst.
You don't know how many times when there was an Equinox player in the party and I needed a heal, only to be a meter or so off and miss the heal, only to get downed soon after from whatever enemy was firing at me. I can get the argument of optimizing for the sake of lower end machines, but the fact that it isn't the case for Oberon doesn't seem to be the case from an outside perspective. I mean, I get it with Maim, but for darn's sake, let us (at least the ones who can run higher end visuals) be able to see the full range of Mend if anything. But I digress haha.

But anyways, it's always a pleasure to read other's thoughts and feelings when it comes to things like these, especially to help better myself to (and hopefully others) understand different perspectives, in any topic it may be pertaining to.

Edited May 2, 2017 by HalfDarkShadow

[Obe-Ron-Kenobi]

14 minutes ago, Buddhakingpen said:

If i'm being realistic, the only  thing out of this that would could probably happen would be the armor debuff on reckoning,, but idealistically i dont see why these shouldnt happen(except the orb drops on hit fromj reckoning. waaaaay exploitable), nothing too imbalanced, even tho oberon is fine right now so its good in my book. 
 

Personally i'd like to see reckoning have its blind mechanic removed entirely in favor of more hard stats. Either more total range, innate armor shred, or making orb drop chance affected by power strength. 

I don't agree that Oberon is fine right now (but that's also partially bias since I've played over 20% of my 452 hours of mission time with him)  because of some of the problems listed in the thread, though you're probably right in that DE has lost motivation to change anything (that's why we need more community discussion however possible). I think he's okay right now, but too much of a poormans [insert frame], I want him to be more unique. 

As far as hard stats go on reckoning, I disagree a bit, as damage is minimal (even though that wasn't your point some people want to include damage on a non damage oriented ability), range should ALWAYS scale with HG, and armor shred, as discussed, should be additive regardless. Blind is meh, but its a good minor stun so I think it's nice to include.

I agree that orbs on reckoning could be exploited which no one wants, but I want it to be part of his build for a further layer of support and build versatility (via equilibrium, health conversion, energy conversion), that's why we gotta work out the kinks. What percentages do you think would be better? 

Edited May 2, 2017 by Oni_Spartan4

[Xekrin]

52 minutes ago, Nirune said:

i was SO revealed when we were told you were just going to tweak his skills to have by synergy.

I'm not sure if you had a dyslexic moment and just misspelled revieled or if you meant revealed and it has some esoteric meaning I cannot fathom.  Sorry I tend to fixate on weird things occasionally.

---

Anyway I had the opposite reaction, I was hoping for a redo of at least one or two of his abilities, and if you think about it they kinda did with renewal anyway.  Not that I'm too stressed because I disliked Oberon prior and therefore didn't play him enough to care much one way or the other.

I won't say I knew immediately (because again I didn't play him much) but looking back, it makes sense that 'adding synergy' is almost always code for 'requires massively more energy, oh and multiple ability combos to do things well'.

I will admit to having some fun moments with the whole rage renewal thing where I tread the line of death very closely in sorties, but beyond that I do agree making it a toggle was an awful idea.  I can imagine a lot of players like this new playstyle and don't want it to change, but more so are there many oberon players (mostly mains of him) who hate it.

It honestly felt a lot like DE just sighed with exasperation and gave up after dropping the first rework update on us.  Two days later (or whatever), they completely change the mechanics of an ability, with no warning at all.  "BOOM, toggle.  ENJOY AND SHOO!"

In case you missed it, Steve also said the current rework will be left to "sit for a while to gather feedback", which is also code for one of two things.  "we ain't changing it for at least a year", and/or "We might change it after his PA drops, or in the middle, depending on sales".

Because lets face it, people have been clamoring for DE to buff oberon for ages, and he suddenly gets it.  It is from a clear desire to increase sales, which is honestly a great idea, except it also requires the rework actually be good.  They are expecting to sell us on a frame that most have despised for 2+ years if not more (or less).  

The rework should be fantastic, on par with Limbo's at least, otherwise it doesn't change all that much.  People who disliked him might play him to test it out but chances are good they will just put him down again afterward.

That got longer than I expected, if you didn't read it all I understand.

[(PSN)maelstromm15]

56 minutes ago, Nirune said:

Phoenix renewal only works once per person or so the mod says, meaning its only useful for you or your party once. with a 90 sec cool down meaning any time say a sortie juggernaut comes it'll only rez one person when you know typically when he does kill he cleaves the poop out of most of the party.

It does work once per person, but each person has the cooldown individually. One person dies and gets phoenixed, then another one dies 10 seconds later, he also gets phoenixed. First person dies in another 5 seconds, he's bleeding out because he had the cooldown. All four squad members go down at once, all four get ressed and now have the cooldown individually.

[Music4Therapy]

56 minutes ago, Grimmboski said:

Oberon, as stated, is best when all his skills are viably utilized, and unfortunately his best build discards 75% of his kit, to be a worse Chroma/Inaros/Nidus with none of their additional utilites or damage. 

He barely lasted 30 minutes with Mogamu there with that build with both stacking high str Iron Renewals, that wasn't just one Oberon alone going 30 minutes. Meanwhile I am soloing for 60-near-90 minutes in Mot daily and there's a video up on YouTube of a guy back in 2015 soloing T4S for 60 minutes with pre-rework Oberon before focus schools or blood rush was even a thing.

His build sucks, plain and simple. Nowhere near the best and is a party trick. The lone redeeming factor in Oberon's factor was it's utility, he gave that up to be a bad Chroma.

Edited May 2, 2017 by Music4Therapy

[MartianGHunter]

Was away this weekend so only got to play testing Oberon today and this is my feedback as a Oberon fan but also a player who plays all the frames maybe except Octavia atleast twice or so every month.

Now feedback part. Oberon has improved greatly and everyone who thinks other wise is clearly an incompetent player and here is why.

I took my zero forma oberon with a catalyst in Selkie highest level grineer survival outside of Kuva Fortress and Mot and soloed it up to the 40min mark with an single forma upgrading akstilleto prime and maxed gelatine prime and I did not die once. The only reason is because my controller batteries were dying otherwise Oberon held his own.

The only problem I suffered was that I was struggling to have enough energy to cast my abilities so I suggest a energy regen mechanic or a much much larger energy pool.

The reason I say the rest of his kit is good as it is. Is because Oberon is a learning frame for newer players into a Support healing tanking role before they are able to aquire more specialised frames such as Nova Trinity or Inaros. He does all these jobs to an acceptable level so long as you play smart position yourself well and pick your fights wisely he is outstanding as a simple to learn caster support frame. Only thing letting down is his energy pool and the fact that Hallowed Ground's range doesn't match that or Reckoning and also HG isn't that visible.

These are small tweaks that are easily fixed. Oberon doesn't suck if played well(not even modded well just played well) he is an solid frame.

This is my opinion agree diagree go ahead and share, not here to argue just to give feedback to the developers.

 

[BansheePrime]

I find it amazing that for some reason the 3 energy per target being healed does not get effected by your duration and efficiency.

[CuChulainnWD]

3 minutes ago, maj.death said:

I find it amazing that for some reason the 3 energy per target being healed does not get effected by your duration and efficiency.

It is an issue that DE said would persist until they correct it.

Renewal:

Oberon’s ability to keep himself and his teammates alive is a large part of his overall role. Feedback brought forth further tweaks with the intention to solidify this role. 

• Removed Heal Time from Renewal. Renewal now functions more conventionally as a toggle which drains 2 Energy per second while active + 3 Energy per second per target actively being healed. *Please note that Trinity's Energy Vampire will not give Oberon Energy while Renewal is active.
• Added the "is active" ability icon animation to Renewal.
• Fixed Renewal bleedout buff being removed when entering bleedout.

*We are aware of a UI bug where the Arsenal stats for Renewal show that Energy per target is not affected by Efficiency/Duration Mods. A fix will come at a later date- we wanted to get this out ASAP! 

Edited May 2, 2017 by CuChulainnWD

[Hemmo67]

i agree oberon is soooooo much better than he ever was

sure some ppl seem to complain about energy issue but personally with rage p flow vitality and renewal on at all times (100 strenght 105 dur 175 eff 145 range) i can sustain my heal and cosntant casting of his other abilities

all in all, oberon and i are gona spend a looooot of time in the future =)

[SenorClipClop]

Good ideas, and thank-you providing feedback in a specific, constructive way.

I strongly believe the change to his passive that you propose is far too strong. Since Oberon can continually heal himself, having innate 30% energy regen off of the damage dealt to him means he'd rapidly be getting free and infinite energy as long as he takes damage. Considering that Oberon would be able to stack a Rage mod on top of this, it's just too much.

I agree that he could do with some form of Energy return, but I believe it should be something that's a bit more active and comes as a reward for the effective use of Oberon's powers, like what Saryn has. I dig your ideas about this coming from Hallowed Ground and Reckoning, but I think it should only come from one of these sources. Perhaps either 5 Energy from enemies killed on Hallowed Ground (rewards Oberon sanctifying the earth for allies), or by priming the enemies affected by Reckoning with a percent chance to drop a blue orb (this could replace the Health orbs since he already has a substantial heal). That said, from what I've played I have no issue with the current energy requirements Oberon has. I know some players have been trying to crank his damage via Blind Rage, and for these players the extra energy cost should be expected. Since, you know, BR decreases Efficiency.

I really like the new Renewal. It's thematic, encourages allies in need of support to stay with the damn squad, and provides Bro with this identity as a beefy frontline bastion. The one change I would like to see is having Iron Renewal activate regardless of the order in which these abilities come into play. At the moment, Tenno must be standing on an active Hallowed Ground and then be hit by Renewal's initial pulse. Instead, I would like to see it as applying to all Tenno who touch HG while Renewal is active. This would be useful, but again I don't feel this is strictly needed. The best work-around I've found for Renewal's cost is to only turn it on when health is needed (or double-tap just for the Armor buff). There are often other forms of healing available to a squad, so this responsibility does not always need to fall to Bro. When the squad doesn't need it, Renewal can be turned off. If the squad literally always needs healing, something is very wrong. (That Nekros thing should be looked at, though.)

As we play with post-update Oberon, it's important to reflect not only on stats, but also on practical performance. Oberon is different now. The community asked for changes. They wanted him to have an identity and the ability to handle late-game content. Now he has a more fleshed-out identity, and I've been taking him into Sorties and other high-level content with rousing success. Let's ensure that we stop trying to make new Bro work just like old Bro. Before, he didn't really have a role. Let's find out if new Bro fits a role. Let's not try to force him into other frames' exact roles, because he's different. Let's find out where he fits*. Most importantly, let's give it time. Frame reworks always get slammed (Saryn, Mag, Ember) because players get used to playing/building a certain way, then don't know how to play the new version and get frustrated. Try him out with different builds, different loadouts and see what works and what you like.

 

_{*In playing him, I have found him to fill the role of a "frontline sustain support", capable of most things passably and primarily taking responsibility for shoring up any of the squad's weaknesses, and also saving their butts. This is the Oberon I wanted when I first got Oberon.}

Edited May 2, 2017 by SenorClipClop

[Somb3rBivalve]

Yeah I've toyed around with his rework as well. Without rage, he has serious energy problems (because he has to use 2 so much), and that is the biggest thing I would like to see resolved.

But you are right that he isn't as bad post-rework that many people make him out to be. Perhaps it was that we were coming from the trio of frames like Nidus, Octavia, and Limbo (post rework) that were all insanely good at release that we expected a massive top-to-bottom rework for oberon that would make him just as good as those other frames. Instead he went from bad to good instead of from bad to insanely good, and with a few more minor tweaks he would have a sensible playstyle that is engaging and effective.

[Buddhakingpen]

1 minute ago, Oni_Spartan4 said:

I don't agree that Oberon is fine right now (but that's also partially bias since I've played over 20% of my 452 hours of mission time with him)  because of some of the problems listed in the thread, though you're probably right in that DE has lost motivation to change anything (that's why we need more community discussion however possible). I think he's okay right now, but too much of a poormans [insert frame], I want him to be more unique. 

As far as hard stats go on reckoning, I disagree a bit, as damage is minimal (even though that wasn't your point some people want to include damage on a non damage oriented ability), range should ALWAYS scale with HG, and armor shred, as discussed, should be additive regardless. 

I agree that orbs on reckoning could be exploited which no one wants, but I want it to be part of his build for a further layer of support and build versatility (via equilibrium, health conversion, energy conversion), that's why we gotta work out the kinks. What percentages do you think would be better? 

I'm biased as well, he's over 6% of my 2000+ hours mission time, so we're about in the same boat (dont know what that tidbit has to do with anything at all though) and i feel that his job IS to be the poor mans [insert frame].  Its perfectly ok to just be middle of the road and it seems that thats his intended design. My guess is, thats why DE "lost motivation" on him. Because there really isnt much to fix. 

As far as reckoning goes, I put in my two cents on how to make the orb drops balanced. Just keep it as is, and make the drop rate affected by power strength.  If i was using the proposed buffs though, where you can tag an enemy with reckoning for an increased orb drop rate I'd put that at something around 25% affected by power strength and duration. I'm not a fan of stacking it with auxiliary effects though. Just give it a good, simple baseline of mechanics to work with. 20 meters base range, 30% innate armor shred, 50% on hallowed ground. All this extra stuff like orb drops and blind just makes them need to trim the stats that actually matter to make room for situational bullcrap.

The rest of your comment doesnt seem directed at me, as it had nothing to do with what i was saying, so i'll leave that be.