Design Council Challenge Discussion and Feedback

[CorerMaximus]

After reading some of this- guys, the issue (atleast for me) isn't that the mission was hard- no, I welcome more high level content.

Instead, it was that it was annoying, repetitive, and non-rewarding both from a personal gratification and rewards standpoint. Unlike regular gameplay where you can slash through multiple enemies in a timely fashion, the jugger was one enemy that took a lot of time to take down. Combine this with the jugger repeating his moveset for the entire match on the smallest map in Warframe meant things got boring as you were doing the same thing again and again without freedom to move around. This is my issue...

[Skollolol]

The Juggernaut is so poorly designed, it would fit into a game made by Digital Homicide more than Digital Extremes. It's that bad.

My feedback on the design council for this:

Who ever was on it for this alert should be banned from ever participating again.

While you kids my have a good chuckle on this pure bullS#&$ mission, you squander the good will of, by my sample size, not unsubstantial amount of players who ended up in this mission not knowing what was in store with stunts like this.

There was no second try. Not after experiencing this S#&$ for 20 minutes.

I don't think this is something you'd want to repeat.

[Helljack84]

4 hours ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

 Then we went with max power Mesa with Trinity energy support and a Limbo to keep everyone in the Rift.  Easy.

This is exactly how challenging content should be in the game.  

Your definition of challenging content is: 

- Complete invulnerability

- auto aiming guns in melee only 

- unlimited energy

- enemies that can't fight back in any way

Nope, that's just breaking the game. You basically ignored enemy lvl, damage, weapon restrictions...everything that made the mission challenging and call it a challenge.

 

 

[Sekrev]

44 minutes ago, ShakeyMac said:

1. It's not made clear anywhere save the node itself that this mission is "melee-only."  Thus, I brought Titania to it because, well, I felt like it.  Turns out she's not a great melee frame vs. level 100+ infested, especially when you have her built around her 4.  Making it clear that it's melee-only via the Alert tab in the Star Chart in addition to the mission node itself would have been better.

2. The juggernaut at the end was not a welcome sight, simply because it was completely unexpected.  Unlike many other bosses, juggs have to be planned for due to how stupidly hard they are to kill without specific setups.  This is further complicated by the map the mission was on and the tendency of the jugg to get stuck under something, yet still be able to one-shot you with spine spam or floor-lava spam.  Having the jugg spawn on the objective is a bad idea as well.

3.  The jugg itself isn't a bad idea, but the "lol SURPRISE *@##$ES" of it was.  Some sort of letter from the Lotus would have been a great setup for this.  Supposedly this is a big deal; it's the first Design Council Challenge.  Maybe something from the Lotus along the lines of "Hey Tenno, we've identified strange infested energy signatures at this node.  I don't know what it means but there are unusually powerful bio-signatures at this node.  Be prepared for the worst."  You don't have to go out and say "hay gaiz dere iz juggernots LOL" but a little something to let us know this mission will have some twists would have gone a long way.

 

tl;dr - make it clearer this is melee only, deal with how jugg AI behaves so that it can't shoot through walls or spawn in stupid areas, and give us some kind of lore-based heads-up that this isn't just another infested defense.

1. Yes, only knew it was supposed to be melee-only because I'd watched one of the twitch streams, that should really visible on the alert before you go in, as with sorties

2. Disagree, it was nice to be surprised by the juggy especially since the mission itself wasn't that hard at all. Especially melee-only, I thought it was hilarious.

3. To me the surprise juggy made the mission fun, even though it was tedious and the jug is buggy sometimes. It was unexpected, needed some thinking to figure out what'd work, I was pleasantly surprised and had fun. As for your "Be prepared for the worst." message, the mission was literally called a 'challenge' and had levels 90-120 so.. people should've come somewhat prepared for, you know, the possibility of a challenge.

Even then, at worst you abort/fail because the juggy is tedious or undoable with your current setup, you change your setup and you do it again and succeed. I really don't see an issue.

[(PSN)Zelisius]

The issue was how this mission was really only doable with 1/3 of the available warframes. 

[(XBOX)ThermalStone]

41 minutes ago, Helljack84 said:

Your definition of challenging content is: 

- Complete invulnerability

- auto aiming guns in melee only 

- unlimited energy

- enemies that can't fight back in any way

Nope, that's just breaking the game. You basically ignored enemy lvl, damage, weapon restrictions...everything that made the mission challenging and call it a challenge.

 

 

If we all followed the "rules" like that no one would ever get these challenges done. Warframe is not really a skill based game.  The real skill is in understanding the game and your gear enough to be able to break free of these constraints.

I enjoyed the challenge of discussing the optimum strategy with my clan mates and setting up our kit.  I know we did a good job because the execution of the plan went well.  It's the same reason I like things like sortie conditions or mastery rank tests, the same reason I keep refining my kit and building up new weapons and frames.  Warframe rewards preparation and knowledge over traditional shooter skills.

Edited April 29, 2017 by (XB1)ThermalStone

[Kyanzes]

Well, we killed it, I used Mesa and the Peacemaker ability. It took a while. Have wiped before that with about 5 or 6 groups (not anyone's fault really) and I got lucky because the mission I was able to finish successfully was taken 1 minute before the mission expired :)

All the 4 of us made it.

[allibound]

3 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

If we all followed the "rules" like that no one would ever get these challenges done. Warframe is not really a skill based game.  The real skill is in understanding the game and your gear enough to be able to break free of these constraints.

That's not really a "skill" at all and I'm extremely disheartened to see that sort of "challenge" is what the future holds.  It's just a gear-check that strokes the egos of those that have put in the time to acquire and max everything.  Artificially limiting your loadout and selection choices, and facing off against up-scaled enemies under very specific conditions is like saying "let's see if we can hit the ball over that tree left-handed" and then bragging that you are good at baseball.

[Helljack84]

10 minutes ago, (Xbox One)ThermalStone said:

-snip-

I'd expect it to be more or less hard depending on what gear you bring. I didn't expect a cheese fest.

Also understanding the game doesn't necessarily mean breaking it. These options exist but they're basically autowin for everything and anything.

Why am I even forced to play through the mission when I already beat it on the arsenal screen?

 

 

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

1 hour ago, Helljack84 said:

I'd expect it to be more or less hard depending on what gear you bring. I didn't expect a cheese fest.

Also understanding the game doesn't necessarily mean breaking it. These options exist but they're basically autowin for everything and anything.

Why am I even forced to play through the mission when I already beat it on the arsenal screen?

 

 

That would have been pretty funny: if you happen to pick the correct Juggernaut Trivializing loadout, the lotus just says "you guessed right! here's your reward." No need to do the mission at all. 

Anyway, that was the Design Council's chance to make a good impression. They blew it (or DE blew it for them, doesn't really matter to me). I suggest future Challenges be an Inbox message that says "Dear Cannyjack: Time to buy an Orolin Catalyst. Thanks!"

Edited April 29, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[(PSN)psycofang]

On 4/28/2017 at 4:24 PM, NecromancerX69 said:

Nova says hi. No one ever think of using a nova for level 100 enemies? or I am just been silly....

Just bring rift torrent limbo and a lesion.

[(PSN)Nacho1709]

I did this mission yesterday and the surprise of a lvl 120 jugg was not nice but the worst part was that after we got it to 1/2 his HP it dissapeared from the map. After 5 minutes of running around everybody left so yeah fun thing to do... 

[(PSN)psycofang]

7 hours ago, (Xbox One)DeluxeKnight831 said:

melee only .........

If a secondary is equipped PM still gets the secondary bonuses in melee only modifiers.

[Chipputer]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Anyway, that was the Design Council's chance to make a good impression. They blew it

Says a vocal minority on the forums, at least.

[MagPrime]

1 hour ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Anyway, that was the Design Council's chance to make a good impression.

The Design Council has been involved in a great many additions to the game for years before this.  They've already made their impression on the game and the community.

Edited April 29, 2017 by MagPrime

[LSG501]

3 hours ago, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Anyway, that was the Design Council's chance to make a good impression. They blew it (or DE blew it for them, doesn't really matter to me). I suggest future Challenges be an Inbox message that says "Dear Cannyjack: Time to buy an Orolin Catalyst. Thanks!"

To be honest, I'd say the challenge wasn't what most of the design council was expecting based on the choices we were given, we didn't even know it would be a defence because there was no mention of level type.....now will you get more of the hard challenges for a single blue potato.... more than likely based on the last 2 council challenges (the previous high level lotus alert was also a design council challenge, just didn't have the name at that time) but majority rules in the design council.

Edited April 30, 2017 by LSG501

[(XBOX)CannyJack]

2 hours ago, MagPrime said:

The Design Council has been involved in a great many additions to the game for years before this.  They've already made their impression on the game and the community.

Yes, and now they've made a direct impression on me, in this thread. 

Edited April 30, 2017 by (XB1)CannyJack

[MagPrime]

Just now, (Xbox One)CannyJack said:

Yes, and now they've made a direct impression on me, in this thread. 

Since DC members have no identifying icon, how do you know this is the first time? ;)

[(XBOX)x Varda x]

I had no problem doing this mission until the invincible Juggernaut came. The constant lightning strikes were a pain though. My multi forma Zenistar did zero damage to the Juggernaut thing and then it quilled me to death. I was so angry after wasting my time in this mission that I haven't played the game since 

[PrivateRiem]

I thought it was too easy until the juggy showed up, then it was fun, but still easy. I liked it so much, I did it again with a friend with the exact same setup.

Poor juggy got 4 shotted

[(PSN)xRockinVaruka]

I'm back and I'll be more than glad to say that I cheesed the craa out of this alert with my Valkyr Prime that has been modded for Hysteria. Told all the others to stand back and let me do all the work. *proceeds to mash circle while holding R2 at the juggernaut for approximately 10-15 minutes*. There is no additional mechanics or things to rev your thought process. 

Was recruited for another run and then somehow, someone stripped it of all its armor and it is completely trivial. 

Frustrating, and then boring. 

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Man, you must all be kidding

It took 30 sec to kill that dude with a group of 4

Used Slova, 4 operators, beamed him

Job done

[(PSN)Yes-Man-Kablaam]

I liked the challenge but next time i'd like a heads up on the conditions like melee only or what have you.

[(PSN)Zelisius]

10 hours ago, (Xbox One)Oussii said:

Man, you must all be kidding

It took 30 sec to kill that dude with a group of 4

Used Slova, 4 operators, beamed him

Job done

And if the group of 4 didn't have a nova or operators yet?

They could of had a good enough weapon setup to handle the situation, but if you didn't have certain frames you were up sh1t Creek without a paddle.

Edited April 30, 2017 by (PS4)Zelisius

[(XBOX)Oussii]

22 minutes ago, (PS4)Zelisius said:

And if the group of 4 did't have a nova or operators yet?

They could of had a good enough weapon setup to handle the situation, but if you didn't have certain frames you were up sh1t Creek without a paddle.

It takes one operator, and a limbo

I did it solo the first time then helped my clan members later (with slova)

This is how i did it solo:

Got limbo, spammed 4th power to kill everyone real quick

The last wave, i put myself in stasis, went out as the operator, beamed him, went back in (still in stasis).. Repeat. it took about 4 min to do it solo

Piece of cake