Melee is OP?

[(PSN)DrHildibrand]

I wouldn't say it's OP. It is more or less equal with firearms. My vaykor hek, Sancti tigris, and Tigris prime are about equal in killing with my Galatine prime and Nikana Prime.

[Mr.ToastForPresident]

There are a lot more advantages for using melee over guns since you have lifestrike, high damage with combos and combo mulitpliers, the Naramon focus, CC with your slide attack, covert lethality for daggers, different stances  and stealth damage. there are a lot of mods to make any melee mods strong and viable or even great as just using for support.

Guns on the other hand don't have the same type of advantages as melee weapons, as a bad gun will always be a bad gun unless you have a great riven to make it a decent gun. SO the main problem here is that there is not enough good mods to put on guns to make them quite as strong as a melee weapon.

[moon.boots]

Uhh...the OP is right? Somehow everyone is forgetting to mention that melee is what enables you to use the most broken focus school in the game. Rifles don't give you access to effective invulnerability on every frame for the low cost of 0 energy.

Moreover melee has much more extreme mod benefits and multiplicitive damage; there's just no rifle counterpart to things like Maiming Strike or Blood Rush or even Condition Overload. Sure, there are bosses like Ruk that can't really be meleed, but that doesn't mean that a Galatine Prime with primed mods on it isn't disgustingly powerful. It's not just on melee frames like Valkyr, too; a Volt with a Galatine Prime is beastly.

[Carnage2K4]

4 hours ago, Zherot said:

Just wondering... seems like the people doing the most damage are the ones that mongo melee everything rather than using abilities or gunfire.

Take a good Mesa player in with you... see how those stats add up. 

[(XBOX)SweatyPick3L]

12 minutes ago, Carnage2K4 said:

Take a good Mesa player in with you... see how those stats add up. 

Hahaha. I've done that. I was using mesa during pup defense. So it was me two ash and a rhino...guess how that turned out..lol

[DrBorris]

3 hours ago, (PS4)robotwars7 said:

Melee combat has it's pros and cons:

+ not having to rely on ammo or precision to deal damage

+ can be reliable since you don't worry so much about headshots.

+ looks badass.

- requires getting very close to enemies, which is risky with non-tanky frames.

- other squad members may get kills quicker than you with certain weapons.

- some bosses cannot be meleed effectively (Lech Kril & Sargas Ruk)

melee is not Overpowered at all, because it is not a solution to everything. in fact, guns could be considered closer to this, since they allow you to keep distance and still deal damage. ranged combat is almost always the preferred option; that's why humanity invented the Bow, and then the Firearm.

As per the cons...

-This would be true, but Naramon exists...

-Melee is the best room cleaner at this point, run in, slide attack, everybody is dead. The ranged room cleanses have been nerfed.

-For every boss that makes a melee player think, there is another that is easily cheesed by melee.

 

Melee is missing the "risk" part of its "risk vs reward" equation. The damage is fine IMO, I remember a time when melee was less damaging AND more risky than ranged weapons. Unfortunately rather than buffing one of those aspects, both got buffed to the point where it can be safer AND more damaging than ranged weapons, this leaves melee in a generally superior position to ranged weapons. Sure shooting a gun is effective, but melee is more effective.

There is one very easy way to bring melee back in line, but that involves a nerf and nerfs are bad. So instead lets make a new focus school that turns you invisible if a shot from your gun crits and, while invisible, gives you double damage.

Spoiler

Am I salty about some attitudes on the Forums? Yes... yes I am.

 

[Zeclem]

5 hours ago, Zherot said:

Yeah and that is really bad, i mean they are basically neglecting skill in the game (another game that does this) having good aim is not rewarded and just getting close and mashing buttons is...

 

Whatever, good to know since i now will not take the damage % seriously AT ALL.

having to aim is rewarded by not having to give a damn about your combo multiplier and still doing more damage. if you want some damage out of your melee weapon you need your combo multiplier. if youre playing in starchart damage is irrelevant since things die when you sneeze on them so melee is just easier there.

[Arniox]

6 hours ago, Zherot said:

Just wondering... seems like the people doing the most damage are the ones that mongo melee everything rather than using abilities or gunfire.

nah, not OP, just really good at multi-killing.

Think of it this way: You're only just now noticing how good melee is cause the true gods at multi-killing with primaries (tonkor, simulor) are now dead. Melee has always been really good at killing lots of things at once because well, range :P

But it wasn't super noticeable. Now, with the nerf of two weapons that where used almost everywhere. And with newer mods like berserker, maiming strike, bloodrush and other such mods, melee is becoming more and more viable. Before those mods, melee was worthless. So worthless that no one really bothered with them (Quite a while ago melee was scarcely seen in missions. The good o'l days where dark days indeed)

[Zherot]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

 It kind of has to be better, because the risk has to equal the reward. Melee you have to get up really close to engage the enemy, so your weapons have to be strong enough to match. Guns may not be quite as powerful, but you can safely kite them if you want. 

Nah, fact of the matter is that we use that argument aiming is harder and should involve more reward.

[Zherot]

2 hours ago, Tesseract7777 said:

That is a ridiculous statement. Yes, aiming takes some skill (although with a lot of ranged weapons lol actually no it doesn't). But the point is that using melee is more RISKY, please don't be deliberately obtuse. Of course its not hard to aim when you are right up in someones face, but to get right up in someone's face, you have to, and I am purposefully being redundant, get right up in their face -- with all the associated risks. 

The risk of what exaclty? if you one shot everything by just mashing your key mindlessly.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Zherot

[Tesseract7777]

1 minute ago, Zherot said:

Nah, fact of the matter is that we use that argument aiming is harder and should involve more reward.

It's like you are deliberately missing the point. There is more risk involved in getting up close to your enemies. Full stop. This is not a difficult concept. 

[Zherot]

3 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

It's like you are deliberately missing the point. There is more risk involved in getting up close to your enemies. Full stop. This is not a difficult concept. 

YOU are the one missing the point on purpose, THERE IS NO RISK in going mele, NONE.

[(PSN)lhbuch]

Melee was for a long time, a few years ago, something that not a lot of people used. Before Body count and to some extent, Blood Rush, you coudnt even sustain your combo counter because the window was too small.

From that point on, not only you could sustain a multiplier for longer periods, but also have a crit chance that would increase with that multiplier. If that wasnt enough, you could become invisible with crit melees using naramon. 

At the current state, melee can output ridiculous amounts of damage taking advantage of stealth multipliers, slash procs, maiming strike stacks ( not sure if it is still working), finishers etc...not even considering Covert Lethality which can scale forever.

[Tesseract7777]

16 minutes ago, Zherot said:

YOU are the one missing the point on purpose, THERE IS NO RISK in going mele, NONE.

You can repeat that the earth is flat until you are blue in the face, it won't make it true. At this point though, I am almost convinced you are deliberately trolling. 

[Misgenesis]

They 'vastly' out damage guns in the long run but you do have to dedicate to it somewhat. There are a couple of questionable mods that shouldnt have been added as they are.

[Zherot]

19 minutes ago, Tesseract7777 said:

You can repeat that the earth is flat until you are blue in the face, it won't make it true. At this point though, I am almost convinced you are deliberately trolling. 

What are you even talking about, who said anything about earth seriously tone down your hyperboles because they are only helping my case here, you clearly are a melee user and that is why you will not accept that is basically baby mode in this game, just like in other games like Overwatch for example, playing Pharah, or EaSymmetra or Junkrat is baby mode... literally 0 skill involved.

Like i said what i'm gonna do is just not take seriously any damage done by melee users that's it.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Zherot

[o.0-]

I would like to see more specific details be brought up, in trying to discuss this; as there are too many vague points flying around.

A blue tater'd and multi-forma'd Weapon with a good mix of fully ranked Mods is going to out perform other options on average. That is the nature of Mods in Warframe, and then we have Rivens to add to how Weapons can perform (Melee seem to be on the Horizon).

Comparing Crit to non-Crit, Crit weapons are often going to have better performance if the metric is clearing out hordes. Damage types and Base Range are other factor to consider.

One is going to naturally take longer smashing through enemies with a Ninkondi or Hirudo over the Atterax or Galatine Prime based on those factors. And forget about quickly tearing through the enemy with something like Fang Prime or the Rakta Dark Dagger in comparison of those particular melee weapons.

So take a Crit Melee weapon with good range, and one can really go to town on an enemy. Taking something like the Sarpa or any other Melee with less than 10% Crit and you add more challenge to a mission, especially with a short range melee.

The way the Combo Counter systems works simply is able to scale that damage higher and faster as melee is sustained in a mission. And it is easier to sustain with longer ranged melee weapons and certain mod combos.

I have ideas for how tweaks can be made here and there, but it's likely not gonna be changing much anytime soon, especially considering there likely would be a new set of weapons that can adjusted as had happened recently.

TL;DR Melee is not OP overall, but maybe certain specific Melee Weapon/builds need minor tweaking.

 

[Tesseract7777]

30 minutes ago, Zherot said:

What are you even talking about, who said anything about earth seriously tone down your hyperboles because they are only helping my case here, you clearly are a melee user and that is why you will not accept that is basically baby mode in this game, just like in other games like Overwatch for example, playing Pharah, or EaSymmetra or Junkrat is baby mode... literally 0 skill involved.

Like i said what i'm gonna do is just not take seriously any damage done by melee users that's it.

I am now 100% convinced you are trolling. Have a good night. LOL. 

[JalakBali]

3 hours ago, moon.boots said:

Uhh...the OP is right? Somehow everyone is forgetting to mention that melee is what enables you to use the most broken focus school in the game. Rifles don't give you access to effective invulnerability on every frame for the low cost of 0 energy.

Moreover melee has much more extreme mod benefits and multiplicitive damage; there's just no rifle counterpart to things like Maiming Strike or Blood Rush or even Condition Overload. Sure, there are bosses like Ruk that can't really be meleed, but that doesn't mean that a Galatine Prime with primed mods on it isn't disgustingly powerful. It's not just on melee frames like Valkyr, too; a Volt with a Galatine Prime is beastly.

Naramon does not make you invulnerable. That's like saying a melee Loki is the most OP thing there is.

Melee is strong because it has to be otherwise there's no point in having them other than as "can openers", which they were in Melee 1.0. If you think being a melee is easy mode, just try it, even with Naramon, on high level Corpus or Infested. Melee-invis is only powerful against Grineer since they don't have any area denial attacks*. Not watching your surrounding is much deadlier to melee than gun users.

 

It all comes down to gameplay styles. It's like comparing the damage of a Zarr user to regular gun user. Sure, the Zarr would get a lot of damage and kills but he carries the risk by using it. There's a reason why you don't see that many melee only newbies or even melee only players in sorties even with Naramon. You have to be good at it to make the most of it. It's not the brainless easy mode some are claiming in this thread. If it were, then we would've seen way more of them, like old Synoid Simulor.

 

*Except Hyekka Masters but her AoE is not large and don't last that long.

[BetaNoire]

1 hour ago, Zherot said:

What are you even talking about, who said anything about earth seriously tone down your hyperboles because they are only helping my case here, you clearly are a melee user and that is why you will not accept that is basically baby mode in this game, just like in other games like Overwatch for example, playing Pharah, or EaSymmetra or Junkrat is baby mode... literally 0 skill involved.

Like i said what i'm gonna do is just not take seriously any damage done by melee users that's it.

 It's just an idiom. 

 

[Zherot]

Really "Balanced", melee not OP at all no...

LOL i even took more damage, so much for "risk", yeah sure, tell that to your mother.

Edited May 1, 2017 by Zherot

[(XBOX)Oussii]

Try to match a tigris prime, a kulstar, or a drakoon

even if you have the best mods on a melee weapon, nothing can beat

Tigris Prime: 23k slash, 42k blast

Kulstar: 29k blast, 23k corrosive or magnetic

And you get to shoot from far without the need of being close and endanger yourself

And what beats them all

ASH-Buster blade storm.

You bring your best melee weapon, i bring one of those, let's go to kuva sortie defense or survival and let's see how op  your melee will be.

I am not saying that some melee weapons are not op or very good, but to compare them with primary, secondary or frame powers,. well that's a doubtful point of view

[(XBOX)SpiralMask]

8 hours ago, Zherot said:

Sorry people but all those answers about yes and no or "depends" are not consistent with what i have seen in all my games... 

Well... from what i have learned. Melee scales more than a primary or secondary. Sure you can strip armor with weapons and continue attacking, but so can Melee weapons... but red crits on my soma and dread and euphona or lex? Yeah but also atterax, and orthos p, and even ohmas... Melees can do things easier than a primary and secondary. Because they have mods that let them. For example, berserker on a melee rewards you with that extra speed for attacking after a crit, so the faster you attack, the more crits you have and you just continue, then you have the multiplier that times that never ending crit, then you have things like maiming strike that adds even MORE to it, oh and lets not forget channeling, thats even a bit extra more damage on top of that, basically making you an annihilator of everything... and sure guns can  have crit builds and stuff, but do they have a counter? And can you use a universal mod for all of them? I dont think so. Unless you could use argon scope on the lex prime and charged barrel. Make it like the best secondary sniper ever. Which it kind of is lol. Then that would probably make guns better, but since they dont and each to their own, they just are what they are. This is all just my opinion though. I know most people will differentiate but i tried to explain what i could think up top of my head, i know theres probably more to it that i didnt mention, but yeah. Gist of it. 

[(XBOX)Bortis Badtouch]

so basically, what i am getting from this thread is, blood rush is op, yet it costs a hell of alot to rank it up, high energy drain, only works on weapons with a decent crit chance and multiplier, so if we take blood rush away, crit weapons are going to suffer, oh btw play a squish frame and try to melee in high level missions, gonna end up with several hundred bullet holes in you and be downed, maiming strike is one mod, they should prob just turn that down a bit, i don't want to see blood rush go away simply because crit based weapons will suck without it, besides we now have rivens for alot of primary and secondary weapons, making good weapons god tier. Plus you have to keep your combo multiplier up constantly less you lose all of it after not smacking someone with your melee for awhile

[Tostov]

Guns/melee are about even, with guns being generally better against single tanker targets, and melee being better against weaker swarms, up until someone pops their naramon focus, at which point they become a permainvis buzzsaw and gain the stealth modifier which ups their damage by like 2(4?)x, which pretty much makes melee a risk free high damage option.