Corrosive Damage or Shattering Impact?

[SharadzKharzhodi]

Basically i got a nice new build with Fragor Prime, and noticed that it does almost nothing against really high level armored grineer. so i was wondering if i should take off true steel, because i have blood rush, and take off another mod to add corrosive damage? or just use shattering impact?

which brings me to my next question.

what exactly does shattering impact do? just reduce armor if the weapon in question has impact, or does every 1 impact on your melee weapon reduce armor by 6 at max? for example, Fragor's impact (with a non-primed pressure point) is 200. will a hit from that decrease armor by 1200, or just by 6 because it has impact damage?

i did add corrosive on my broken war, going with a elemental/condition overload build with heat damage.

[AXCrusnik]

If your weapon has any impact damage at all, and the enemy isn't immune to impact, it removes part of the enemy's BASE armor by the amount on the card per hit. Because it chips away base and not modified by level armor, it always takes the same amount of hits to remove all armor from an enemy type, regardless of it's level. This makes the mod most effective on very fast swinging melee.

Edited May 17, 2017 by AXCrusnik

[Hammahness808]

Quote

Shattering Impact takes effect on every melee hit that deals any impact damage. It has no effect if the melee weapon's impact damage is zero or if the enemy is immune to impact damage. Note that it is not necessary to proc the Impact status effect to trigger the armor reduction.

The amount of armor reduction per hit is a flat, constant value, independent of the amount of Impact damage inflicted. Since the reduction is applied to the target's base armor, for a given enemy type it will always take the same number of hits to completely drain the enemy's armor, regardless of his level.

Regarding source, the mod is most useful on melee weapons with high attack speed that have more than 0 base Impact damage, and on stances which involve applying multiple discrete instances of damage on the same keystroke (i.e., get the highest actual attack speed out of a given theoretical attack speed). Due to its demand for high attack speed, this mod synergizes well with Fury, and Berserker on weapons with decent amounts of base critical hit chances, and by extension with True Steel or Blood Rush, as they both facilitate the build-up and maintenance of the Berserker bonus.

Regarding sink, the mod is most useful against enemies with low amounts of base armor, and at high enemy levels.

Compared to Corrosive statuses, the armor reduction of Shattering Impact scales more steeply into higher enemy level regimes, as the number of Corrosive statuses required to fully deplete a target's armor scales logarithmically with its level, while the number of Shattering Impact hits does not increase at all. However, it should be noted that the armor decrease from Shattering Impact in its progression is linear while that from Corrosive statuses are exponential, so even though Shattering Impact may nullify armor faster, Corrosive statuses' armor reduction might be quicker initially.

The interaction mechanics of Shattering Impact with other sources of armor reduction are a subject of ongoing research.

At max level, the number of hits required to fully deplete an enemy's armor varies between a single hit for enemies with only 5 base armor up to 84 hits for those enemy types with 500 base armor, the current maximum non-boss base armor in the game.

The Valkyr and Volt warframes with proper mods, using their respective melee attack speed increasing abilities Warcry and Speed, and using Swirling Tiger stance on a dual sword weapon can deplete 500 base armor enemy in less than 10 seconds due to the multi hit of the Winding Claws combo.

As of update 18.1.4 Shattering Impact doesn't reduce enemy armor when used with the charge attacks of thrown weapons, this includes Gunblades. The charge attack from a Blade and Whip type weapon will however reduce enemy armor.

• When using the Madurai Focus school's passive Burning Rage, which increases Impact damage, Gunblade and thrown weapon charge attacks will reduce armor.

As per: http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shattering_Impact

[TrickshotMcGee]

Corrosive only reduces armor if it procs, so if you're looking to reduce armor with Fragor Prime, corrosive damage won't do you a whole lot of good because it doesn't proc status often enough to count. 

Shattering Impact works on weapons that have impact. However, they reduce armor by 6 per hit, not per point of damage. Meaning 1200 armor would take you 200 hits to get rid of entirely, and whatever you're hitting is dead *long* before then.

 

My honest suggestion is just making a better build for it, and doing more damage. I took my Fragor P into Rathuum with Inaros and it did quite well without problems. Obviously, the 1.5-2x multipliers aren't going to do much because of the armor, but if you pump up the combo multiplier it'll start hitting exponentially harder and start killing thing better.

[Ryme]

6 points of armor per hit. Shattering Impact is better on faster weapons.

[Ace_Kayo]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Shattering_Impact

shattering impact works as long as you have impact damage on your weapon. 6 base armor decrease per hit makes it so only really fast weapons see benefit using this over corrosive. So it makes it a good option for fast melees without a high status chance %. Also, since this isn't a "status effect", it can be still used to strip armor off enemies frozen via Frost's Avalanche (good for Frosts who focus more on CC AOE builds).

[(PSN)theelix]

Shattering Impact Scales linearly. Shattering Impact also activates with every hit. 

Corrosive Impact Scales Logarithmically. It only has a chance to happen per hit, even at 100%. 

If your melee has an impact stat and a fast attack speed, using Shattering Impact. If it's a slow melee corrosive wouldn't work on it either, anyway. 

 

Shattering Impact works by attacking a target's base armor with the stated points (6 at max rank). Thus, if  you have a heavy gunner with 60 base armor (armor it starts with at level 1), it takes 10 hits to reduce their armor to 0. Regardless of its level. It doesn't matter what your impact stat is, just that you have it at all. It doesn't work on something like the Silva & Aegis. 

Corrosive works by reducing the target's Maximum armor. So if we take that heavy gunner and it's level 100 whatever and it has something like 1200 armor(not accurate, just an example), corrosive halves that. 

Spoiler

1200 -> 600

600 -> 300 

300 -> 150 

150 -> 75 

75 -> 37.5 

37.5 -> 18.75

18.75 -> 9.375

9.375 -> 4.6875

And on and on until it can round it down to 0. 

So, as that number gets bigger the time it takes for corrosive to reduce that number to 0 gets larger. Where as Shattering Impact always takes that same amount of time. 

 

Basically... Choose for yourself. Shattering Impact (I consider) is for endgame. If you're facing enemies over level 100 and for some reason still meleeing, Shattering Impact scales better than Corrosive will for you. If you're not planning on going that high, using Corrosive. It helps your burst damage against the armor types as well as reducing them when it's proc'ed. 

[SharadzKharzhodi]

I think i'm getting this--flat 6 armor stripped, corrosive only reduces if it procs.

so basically what i'm gathering from this is that i'd be better off just reworking my fragor build. 

oddly, though, i noticed this effect only with corrupted units. non-corrupted of the same level died in no time flat, (took 2 hits at a 2.5x to kill a level 43 bombard eximus) as i was red-critting 30k, (~6k with the armor reduction) on the Sedna survival. do corrupted automatically have higher armor values? there were no healers present, which would definately account for such a thing.

thanks by the way to everyone who answered, you cleared up a lot of things i couldnt understand from the wiki page.

[(PSN)theelix]

10 minutes ago, SharadzKharzhodi said:

I think i'm getting this--flat 6 armor stripped, corrosive only reduces if it procs.

so basically what i'm gathering from this is that i'd be better off just reworking my fragor build. 

oddly, though, i noticed this effect only with corrupted units. non-corrupted of the same level died in no time flat, (took 2 hits at a 2.5x to kill a level 43 bombard eximus) as i was red-critting 30k, (~6k with the armor reduction) on the Sedna survival. do corrupted automatically have higher armor values? there were no healers present, which would definately account for such a thing.

thanks by the way to everyone who answered, you cleared up a lot of things i couldnt understand from the wiki page.

That has to do with health scaling.

E.g. Regular Heavy gunners start with 300 health, Corrupted Heavy Gunners start with 700 health. So their EHP(effective hit points) scales far faster. 

[AandOE]

As a melee user myself (normally Orthos Prime with P. Reach and P. Fury), I use both. Shattering Impact is good for the mooks, while the Corrosive Procs help to mitigate the former's lower output on the more heavily armored foes. As long as the Body Count/Blood Rush combo stays up, I can usually out damage even folks such as Simulor Mirages and W.o.F. Embers if they're not paying attention. (they're great in their own right, for what they do)

The take away from everyone's responses is basically, 'do you want to crush in the star chart, crush in the endgame, or crush all the time?' (S.I. vs. Corrosive vs. Both) If your Fragor Prime can go 1.5 speed or higher, I'd say S.I. first, otherwise Corrosive if you have 2 slots open instead of 1.

[failedtodiet]

Its weird that shattering impact works on Zenistar which has no physical damage. Not working on the disc tho.

[AXCrusnik]

21 minutes ago, failedtodiet said:

Its weird that shattering impact works on Zenistar which has no physical damage. Not working on the disc tho.

Zenistar has 13 impact, 13 puncture and 104 slash damage while the disc is deployed.

[failedtodiet]

4 minutes ago, AXCrusnik said:

Zenistar has 13 impact, 13 puncture and 104 slash damage while the disc is deployed.

I see, thank you!

[Keiiken]

1 hour ago, failedtodiet said:

Its weird that shattering impact works on Zenistar which has no physical damage. Not working on the disc tho.

Were you using it with the disc deployed? The melee damage converts to physical when you do that.

[Xzorn]

Why do people keep saying Shattering Impact is good for fast weapons? As if Corrosive status has a cooldown.

Shattering Impact is niche. It can be good for hybrid health types like using Gas + Electric against Health + Shield + Armor enemy types or it's also decent for bad choice melee weapons (base 5-10% status chance). It's not really competitive with Corrosive status in most practical play scenarios. Most players are using Time-to-red-line or 100% strip an enemies armor, that's a useful comparison of different guns to test which is the better armor shredder but It's less useful to compare two completely different mechanics and I'll explain why.

A lvl 300 Heavy unit has a base of 500 armor and a total of 52,065.59 armor or 99.43% damage reduction.

A 10,000 damage swing against said armor will result in 57 damage, ignoring damage modifier double dips.

A single Corrosive proc against this armor value will reduce the the enemy's armor to 39,,049.193 at 99.237% damage reduction. Your 10k swing now does 76 damage (+33.33% more damage) A second proc will reduce the armor to 29,286.89, 98.986%. 10k now does 101.4 damage. again 33% increase in damage. Another Corrosive proc will yield another +33% increase in damage and this trend will continue for the next 8 or so Corrosive procs before it goes down to +31%

A single Shattering Impact effect on the same enemy will drop it's 52,065.59 armor down to 51,440.80,  99.42% damage reduction. So our 10k strike which was reduced to 57 damage now does 58 damage which is a 1.7% increase in damage. Again a strike reduces armor to 50,816.02, 99.41%, 59 damage.+1.7% increase in damage. As you continue to strike your damage bonus will begin to increase where as Corrosive decreases.

To put in perspective it would take 38 Corrosive procs to 100% Strip the armor from a lvl 300 Heavy however it would take 84 strikes to do the same with Shattering Impact. Since we've already established that Corrosive allows you to do more damage more quickly, you would need to strike an enemy roughly four times for each potential Corrosive proc in order for Shattering Impact to compete in kill speed.

Most good status melee can 100% proc Corrosive, even mediocre weapons can proc it 33% of the time while others can simply ignore armor all together. Also remember that damage buffs are always present in higher level content so the idea you'd be smashing away forever on an enemy until you 100% strip it's armor stays proportional and is not a likely scenario that shattering Impact out performs Corrosive status, but like I said in the beginning, on good melee choices. If you want to use a poor melee choice for shredding armor then you of course give more value to Shattering Impact.

[Hammahness808]

10 minutes ago, Xzorn said:

Why do people keep saying Shattering Impact is good for fast weapons? As if Corrosive status has a cooldown.

Shattering Impact is niche. It can be good for hybrid health types like using Gas + Electric against Health + Shield + Armor enemy types or it's also decent for bad choice melee weapons (base 5-10% status chance). It's not really competitive with Corrosive status in most practical play scenarios. Most players are using Time-to-red-line or 100% strip an enemies armor, that's a useful comparison of different guns to test which is the better armor shredder but It's less useful to compare two completely different mechanics and I'll explain why.

A lvl 300 Heavy unit has a base of 500 armor and a total of 52,065.59 armor or 99.43% damage reduction.

A 10,000 damage swing against said armor will result in 57 damage, ignoring damage modifier double dips.

A single Corrosive proc against this armor value will reduce the the enemy's armor to 39,,049.193 at 99.237% damage reduction. Your 10k swing now does 76 damage (+33.33% more damage) A second proc will reduce the armor to 29,286.89, 98.986%. 10k now does 101.4 damage. again 33% increase in damage. Another Corrosive proc will yield another +33% increase in damage and this trend will continue for the next 8 or so Corrosive procs before it goes down to +31%

A single Shattering Impact effect on the same enemy will drop it's 52,065.59 armor down to 51,440.80,  99.42% damage reduction. So our 10k strike which was reduced to 57 damage now does 58 damage which is a 1.7% increase in damage. Again a strike reduces armor to 50,816.02, 99.41%, 59 damage.+1.7% increase in damage. As you continue to strike your damage bonus will begin to increase where as Corrosive decreases.

To put in perspective it would take 38 Corrosive procs to 100% Strip the armor from a lvl 300 Heavy however it would take 84 strikes to do the same with Shattering Impact. Since we've already established that Corrosive allows you to do more damage more quickly, you would need to strike an enemy roughly four times for each potential Corrosive proc in order for Shattering Impact to compete in kill speed.

Most good status melee can 100% proc Corrosive, even mediocre weapons can proc it 33% of the time while others can simply ignore armor all together. Also remember that damage buffs are always present in higher level content so the idea you'd be smashing away forever on an enemy until you 100% strip it's armor stays proportional and is not a likely scenario that shattering Impact out performs Corrosive status, but like I said in the beginning, on good melee choices. If you want to use a poor melee choice for shredding armor then you of course give more value to Shattering Impact.

However, there is no guarantee that Corrosive will proc on every hit. Shattering Impact does. So, definitely weapons without high enough status and ~some~ impact damage, will benefit more from it, especially when they hit very fast.

[Xzorn]

8 minutes ago, TGKazein said:

However, there is no guarantee that Corrosive will proc on every hit. Shattering Impact does. So, definitely weapons without high enough status and ~some~ impact damage, will benefit more from it, especially when they hit very fast.

 

I said it was good for bad melee choices (5-10% base status, maybe 15% after doing the math)

Even mediocre weapon choices like Jat can achieve 100% status with 32% Corrosive proc weight. Making them proc 1/3 of every strike.

If your priority is just armor then you should be using a pure elemental weapon or a status Slash weapon. That's really all there is to it.

Hitting faster doesn't matter when comparing the two effects. The number of hits is what matters and that's proportional regardless of speed. Now if you do a hybrid setup like I mentioned with Gas + Electric or Viral and you're intent is to get to the squishy layer of health in order to gain modifiers, then speed matters but far as stripping armor, it doesn't.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Use neather, stick to slash or elemental weapons...

 

Corrosive is kinda difficult on most physical weapons as physical status got 4x higher odds to procc status then elemental ones do, meaning that you have the choice between a mod that removes armor per hits and one that may end up doing the same amount of hits before it removes armor due to its low rng proccrate...

Corrosive got a advantage over shattering against enemys with a very high default armor (special enemys, bosses) but that's really about it.

You'll get the best results vs armor outa a weapon with a elemental base (lacera and such) or by bypassing armor alltogether (slash proccs. Very strong on crit builds, stealth multipliers currently affect the status too.)

Optional: Consider Corrosive Projection and frames that provide you with armor depell.

Edited May 17, 2017 by (PS4)CoolD2108